Edwards says his fight isn't over (a bit of a slap at Kerry campaign?)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/10300341.htm?1c

<snip>

Earlier, Edwards reflected about the last campaign.

He said Republicans successfully tapped into the "cultural populism" on issues such as gay marriage that played well throughout the South and in much of the rest of the country. Edwards said Bush used those issues to divide, adding that Democrats have to talk more about religion and other "common values" that people can relate to.

"We can't be a party of elites and intellectuals," he said. "People have to believe we're on their side," he said. "... People have this instinctive radar for that. They know whether you respect them. They know whether you respect their way of life."

He declined to say whether he thought the outcome would have been different had he, not Kerry, been atop the ticket. Nor did he say what the campaign should have done differently.

But, he said, "The most important thing ... that we need in a future presidential campaign is a message that's clear and strong and a candidate who believes it to his or her soul. It's the core of a successful run for the presidency. Otherwise it sounds like today's message or yesterday's poll numbers."

[Gloria]

1. Olbermann seemed to think there was a bit of a slap there...

Edwards should zip it for awhile.....

[DjTj]

3. He's only the saying the same things he's been saying...

...since the primaries...

He's going to hit media blackout pretty soon since he's no longer going to be in office, so there's probably no need to tell him to zip it. Let the man have a few more moments on the stump...

[LittleClarkie]

4. If I hadn't read one article and also heard Edwards farewell speech

I might agree.

The article said that he and Kerry had a very close partnership. Together they'd decide what the message would be and where Edwards would be best used on the trail. It sounded like more of an equal thing than most prez/vice prez relationships. That's what was said in the article too.

Then there was the farewell speech. When he got to the part where he was thanking John Kerry, he suddenly sounded more emotional and more sincere, as if he'd stopped reciting a speech and was speaking from the heart.

I think the comments were probably more aimed at the Dems as a whole. Framing the issues and such. That's my opinion anyway.

[99Pancakes]

2. Edwards~Obama 2008 n/t

n/t

[Stephanie]

5. That's an incredible ticket.

That could be a winner.

[Clarkie1]

7. No way would that ticket win

I'd vote for Obama at the top of the ticket for the presidency in a heartbeat, though.

2008 is way to early for that though.

Clark/Obama would be a fine, winnning ticket with stregth, integrity, vision, and soul.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

76. Errr, his tone wasn't divisive

However, yours is.

[Radical Activist]

12. The winning dream ticket

It would allows us to compete in the South and be safe in some midwestern state where we had to fight this time.

[Clarkie1]

17. You mean Southern states like North Carolina?

Or all the rest?

[Radical Activist]

19. Same reply

and I'll repeat my reply. It might have helped had the Kerry campaign spent any money or resources to win North Carolina. It might also help if we have a candidate who can, oh I don't know, appeal to working class and southern voters without coming off like a snobbish new england millionaire.

[Clarkie1]

22. Agreed!

"It might also help if we have a candidate who can, oh I don't know, appeal to working class and southern voters without coming off like a snobbish new england millionaire."

Clark 08'

No more lawyer politicians, please. Both groups have very low approval ratings from the general public.

[Radical Activist]

24. I just have a hang up about

people who run for President that have never held elected public office before. I don't feel they are qualified and it strikes me as being rather arrogant. It would be nice if Clark got elected to office in Arkansas first and got more political experience.

[Clarkie1]

57. Interesting, I have exactly the OPPOSITE point of view

I would much rather prefer a president who is NOT a career politician.

Clark has plenty of leadership experience. We need less career politicians, not more IMO.

[sendero]

93. Trust me...

... the "high levels" of the military are as POLITICAL as it gets.

[bunny planet]

42. Isn't Clark supposed to be in the Clinton camp? I like him but I'm not

sure he'll run at all if Hillary does (and I hope she doesn't). I think Edwards/Obama would be an awesome ticket, no doubt.:headbang:

[Clarkie1]

59. Obama awesome, Edwards not

Nothing against Edwards personally, but a senator and lawyer for pres. again. No thanks!

Obama is a rising star. His time will come. He's an expert and lecturer in constitutional law, and I make an exception to my "lawyer rule" in that case :-).

[bunny planet]

67. I say Edwards/Obama only because I think Edwards will want to run for

Prez rather than VP and Obama will add to his ticket immensely. I could go for Gore/Obama too. That would be awesome.

[trillian]

33. You're kidding, right?

Edwards added nothing to the ticket.

Didn't bring in one southern state, not even his own state, not even his own county!

Edwards is all about Edwards. Kerry knew it, but was badgered into choosing him because of the money from trial lawyers.

The difference in this election was not "values" but "Terra" according to Josh Marshall.

In post 9/11 we will need a candidate strong in national security to win. There again sometimes I feel that the Dems are not interested in winning, only on being right. Sad!

[Trajan]

53. I dont get these gratuitous accusations against Edwards ....

"Edwards is all about Edwards ..."

John Edwards spoke to PEOPLE, he spoke to their HEARTS ...

I know: I heard him in the flesh and up front ...

John Edwards spoke of ONE America, and he spoke FOR me when he did ....

Edwards may have been the most SELFLESS candidate I have seen in many years .... Im not buying your line one bit ....

[bunny planet]

74. Agree with you here, Edwards was awesome. They just held him back too

much in the beginning of their campaign together and didn't let him shine at the convention to not overpower Kerry. He held his own in the debate against Darth Cheney too, although he should have nailed him about the lie he told about having never met him before.

[GreenArrow]

55. I agree with you on Edwards --

total self-promoter. Clark was the winning pick, and Kerry blew it.

But I disagree with "sometimes I feel that the Dems are not interested in winning, only on being right. Sad!"

I think the trouble is that the Dems are only interested in winning, and not concerned with being right. If they were, they'd have run Kucinich, who was right about pretty much everything, and ran at the bottom of the pack during the primaries.

[angrydemocrat]

56. I Agree With You About Edwards

I wanted Kerry to choose Clark but oh well we got Edwards instead. I like Edwards and all but Clark would have been better.

[Clarkie1]

60. Yes, I think this ticket must be some sort of joke

Nothing special about Edwards, and he's already established himself as a mediocre pol in the Cheney debate and his failure to add anything to the ticket (actually, I think Edward's inexperience may have hurt Kerry with national security issues being paramount.)

Kerry made a very poor choice when he chose Edwards from a political as well as leadership perspective, imo.

Obama now, that's another story - the study of constitutional law is an excellent preparation for the presidency :-).

[Uzybone]

64. Wow....he didnt win his own county?

Is that true?

[PopSixSquish]

73. About That Own State Thing...

Strange how a Republican pundit talking point used against Gore in the past four years as in "well Gore couldn't even win his own state TN" or "If Gore had won TN, then Florida blah, blah, blah" is now used against another Democrat.

[UpsideDownFlag]

39. obama is too junior, just like edwards was this time around. nt

[Cheswick2.0]

47. agreed, let Obama get some experience

no more first term senate candidates.

[bunny planet]

41. Oh yes!!!!!!

[journalist3072]

52. I love it! Edwards and Obama would be fantastic!

[Pepper32]

6. Oh man, we can't have these two taking cheap shots at each other NOW

sigh... I just hope it ends with Edwards comments.

[Clarkie1]

8. Edwards is a political opportunist

I'm not surprised.

That said, I believe he does want to advance democratic causes and do good. It's just he's got a big head on his shoulders. He seems more in it for himself than the country. Not to say he doesn't have many GOOD qualities as well. Just my opinion.

Edwards is a politician's politican, and I'm sick of most all of them, frankly.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

10. Except Clark, I presume?

[Clarkie1]

16. Clark is not a political opportunist

He got into the race reluctantly, and only for his country.

I'm sick of most politicians, frankly.

Aren't you?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

21. I'm just amused you

think he got into the race reluctantly. What makes you say that?

He's as much a politician as the rest of them.

[trillian]

34. If you knew anything at all about him....

....you would know that he got into the race because he was drafted! After giving over 34 years to serving his country, headed the call to duty once more!!!



"Wes Clark is a man of whom you can ask a question, and he will look you directly in the eye, and give you the most truthful and complete answer you can imagine. You will know the absolute truth of the statement as well as the thought process behind the answer. You will have no doubt as to the intellect of the speaker and meaning of the answer to this question....
So you can see, as a politician, he has a lot to learn." --- Mario Cuomo

[Cheswick2.0]

49. he's the one who started the draft

he was talking about running as early as 2002. The whole draft Clark thing was manufactured. Just because a whole lot of sincere people jumped on the bandwagon doesn't mean they started it rolling.

Then Clinton decided that Clark could take away votes from Dean, and voila`, grassroots from a can.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. Democratic causes such as the IWR, NCLB and the Patriot act

no thanks.
Except for trade Edwards is way too conservative.

[DjTj]

51. that never ran for office until he was 45...

...after his oldest son passed away.

He has even admitted that he did not follow politics and didn't even vote on occasion...

...doesn't sound like much of an opportunist to me...

[AP]

54. And what opportunity is he taking? Does he work for the interests of an

industry he's trying to protect? Is he going to become wealthier? It sounds like he's just taking the opportunity to try to protect America by protecting the middle class from fascists. What a jerk.

[lilfroggy]

69. More divisiveness from you. . Edwards in 2008 for POTUS!

[Clarkie1]

81. Edwards does not have the leadership skills or world knowledge to be Potus

I think Kerry would have done better if he had made a wiser VP choice. There were many more responsible choices available, but he chose instead to put his finger to the wind, which at that time didn't show great leadership qualties to the American people, either.

[lilfroggy]

85. Yeah yeah yeah, Clark blah blah blah..

You just hate that "TRIAL LAWYER" huh? Grow up.

[The Wielding Truth]

32. What if Ohio and Florida would yield some interesting votes and

Kerry /Edwards ticket was alive again ??? Edwards would be doing some fast talking and Kerry would forgive him. What was I worried about?
I guess I just have to worry about my crazy imagination.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

9. We AREN'T A PARTY of elites and intellectuals

I hate it when repukes say that and I especially hate it when a Dem says that, Senator Edwards!

[FullCountNotRecount]

11. How dare Edward use their media code words against us!

Edwards calling us elite why? Because we like intellectual curiosity and we believe in science and we are concerned about other people ijn the world. WTF is he thinking?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

13. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not

but what I meant was, it made me bristle, because he just seems to be reinforcing that stereotype. And it IS a stereotype, mostly. Around here most Dems are minorities, union workers, etc.

Not exactly what you might call "elite."

[FullCountNotRecount]

18. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm agreeing with you.

If we are elites...well, let's let Edwards tell us what an elite is...because I like green tea?

[Radical Activist]

14. Yeah, it's not like we just nominated a ivy league new england millionaire

why would anyone think we're a party of elite intellectuals instead of the party of the people? I can't imagine...

[LittleClarkie]

25. I don't see where that makes a difference

Either you'd make a good president or you wouldn't.

[Radical Activist]

26. Read What's the Matter With Kansas by Thomas Frank

and you'll see why it makes a difference. Actually, I'm recommending this book to every Democrat I know. It's a good read and the author does a great job explaining why we're losing in the red states and how the Republicans managed to make a populist, working class conservative movement.
Kerry played right into all the Republican stereotypes of what an out-of-touch evil liberal is like. It hurt us a lot.

[LittleClarkie]

28. Sad really

considering Bush is the same kind of rich East Coast elitist. He's just better at hiding it.

How does getting 55 million votes show that he hurt us.

If you look back on the presidents we've had through history, it hasn't mattered that they were rich. It only seems to matter now because of God, Guns and Gays.

I will pick up the book. I assume we need something "Clintonesque" to get elected again though, eh?

Who was it who said that the qualities that make you a good campaigner aren't necessarily the same qualities that will make you a good president, or something like that.

[Radical Activist]

30. He doesn't prescribe another Clinton

He made the point that when Clinton and the DLC Democrats decided to take economic issues off the table it played into the Republican's hands. If the election isn't about the fact that we represent working people then the only big issues left on the table are social morality issues.

You're right about Bush being even more elitist than Kerry. Bush acting like a bafoon helped him. It made him look more common man, in an odd way.

[AP]

37. I am so sure that lots of Bush's misspeaking and buffoonery is calculated

for that exact purpose you describe.

[AP]

35. Exactly.

[angrydemocrat]

94. You have a mojor hate problem when it comes to Kerry

Yes Kerry is a millionare so what? Is there something wrong with that? The man has worked hard all his life to be that millionare. So what is your problem about?

Do you not think Edwards is a millionare? He is but I find nothing wrong with that. He like Kerry worked all his life to become a millionare. So what is the difference?

Yes Kerry went to Yale so what alot of kids do is there something wrong with that? Kerry was lucky to get to go there because he nor his parents had the money for it. His great-aunt Clara Winthrop paid for. his father was on a salary from the State Department and his mother had a little money but they were not rich and they had 3 other kids they were raising besides John. There was no way they could afford Yale so had it not been for his great aunt Claire he would never have gotten to go to such a college. Or did you know about this part of Kerry life? Or are you one of these that pass judgement on someone before you know all the facts? So I will ask again what is your problem with the fact he had someone that could help him to get into a good college so that he could later make something of his life?

Edwards went to a good college. There was nothing shabby about it. It was where he chose to go. No it wasn't Yale but Kerry wouldn't have gotten to go to Yale if his great aunt didn't pay for. Neither of these men had rich parents. Kerry's father started out in the military and worked his way up to a job working for the State Depatment. Edwards father worked many years in the mills of North Carolina. Both were hard working but neither were rich.

Last Kerry is from the north well so what. Is there something wrong with being from the north?

Edwards is from the south again so what. Is nothing wrong with being from the south?

Are people from the south suppose to be better than those from the north? What is your problem with New England?

[Radical Activist]

15. It sounds like Edwards knows how to win where Kerry doesn't

and it sounds like maybe Edwards' message was stifled when he was picked for VP.

[angrydemocrat]

61. LMAO

If Edwards knows how to win so much better than Kerry then why in the hell couldn't he win the primaries? Or do you just over look the fact he got his a$$ kicked in the primaries?

I'm not saying I don't like Edwards because I do but to say he knows how to win and Kerry doesn't is total garbage.

[Must_B_Free]

20. He's right - Kerry came off a little phony at times

I didn't believe he actually believed some of the stuff he was selling. I thought he was saying what it takes to win.

[LittleClarkie]

23. But then so does Edwards at times

I could tell in his goodbye speech when he was speaking from the heart and when he was just sort of speechifying.

I don't think he was swiping at Kerry. I think he was sincere when he said they formed a close personal bond. I could hear it in his voice.

But he might be stumping already. His statement sounds more like that to me than a swipe at Kerry.

As for Kerry, most of what he said, I believe he meant. But as one interviewer pointed out, he sometimes sounds like he's aware he's not telling you everything. But then he does have that tendancy to over-explain. It was not a false bill of goods. It was an incomplete bill of goods.

[politicasista]

27. There isn't bad blood is there?

I thought they made a great team. They offered us hope.

[LittleClarkie]

29. I'd say no

Not from what I've seen. I think Edwards means it when he says they became close friends during the campaign. And from reports I've seen, Kerry worked with Edwards almost as an equal partner on the trail.

I don't think there's any bad blood at all.

[zann725]

31. Then Edwards should be waiting UNTIL the Ohio recounts...

before he 'starts moving on.'

Unless of course (due to his wife's illness), IF Kerry DID win the
re-count, maybe Edwards would be subb-ed out, and someone such as Gebhardt put in.

[IndianaGreen]

36. "a candidate who believes it to his or her soul"

But, he said, "The most important thing ... that we need in a future presidential campaign is a message that's clear and strong and a candidate who believes it to his or her soul. It's the core of a successful run for the presidency. Otherwise it sounds like today's message or yesterday's poll numbers."

As opposed to someone that will nuance an issue to death! This is as good a post-mortem as any I have seen on the as-yet-to-be-resolved Election 2004.

[AP]

40. To repeat something...

...that I've been saying for two years, the thing that was so compelling about Edwards was that (1) his very clear persona (the child of the working class making it because of a liberal government comitted to building an infrastructure and economy and public education system which delivers wealth to big middle class) -- ie, his biography -- tied into his (2) policy agenda, which he also set out pretty clearly, and, best of all, this persona and policy agenda was (3) exactly the antidote for what's killing America, and precisely addressed what was the biggest concern for the voters: jobs, economy and health care (which was the most important thing to voters even though Republicans (and many many Democrats) tried so desperately hard to make fear and terrorism and war their top concern.

Message + Persona + Talking about exactly the issues that America cares about = best chance for Democrats to win.

[GreenArrow]

58. the pubs call such a thing "moral clarity"

the unerring ability to see and present things in razor sharp shades of black and white. Righteous exclusivity, call it.

[zulchzulu]

38. I figured this is the next step...

Now that the circular firing squad is shooting at each other, I figured that Edwards might join in...what the hell...

Perhaps Kerry was correct in his initial judgement that Edwards probably would not even deliver his own state in the Election.

It's funny that so many people here at DU and elsewhere were always wondering where the hell Edwards was during the campaign. His VP role as the more aggressive person in the campaign was not that strong.

I'm guessing Edwards is going to run in 2008, but with only one term as Senator under his belt, I find it will be hard to run as someone with experience.

[angrydemocrat]

62. Exactly Right!

And Kerry was correct about his initial judgement. That has already proven to be true. I wanted Kerry to pick Clark but oh well we got Edwards. And as I have said before I like Edwards and all that but I think Clark would have been a better a better choice.

[PopSixSquish]

77. Edwards Was Out on the Campaign Trail Every Day

and yet some here seem to think he was sipping mai-tais on the beach. I'd see those posts on DU and then go to the Kerry/Edwards site and look and there would be a schedule of events. Then I'd go to yahoo or google do a search and there would be news accounts of those events. Some from the AP and some from the local media where Edwards was appearing. I'd also search the picture archieves and there he was.

But because some didn't see him on the network and cable nightly newscasts, they immediately assumed he just wasn't working.

Now, this the same network and cable stations that most everyone on this site agrees were/are biased against our side. But if it wasn't on one of their programs, then it didn't happen? :shrug:

[HoosierClarkie]

43. I wouldn't call that a slap

I would call it a sucker punch! What about making sure every vote counts before he starts blaming a man who gave him the greatest opportunity. Edwards sounds like an ingrate.

[angrydemocrat]

63. LOL

Sounds like a spoilt brat if you ask me. Just like a little kid whining cause he hasn't gotten his way. And I have thought that ever since they showed him on TV making those remarks and my husband and parents say the same. I like Edwards but like my mom said he needs to grow up and quit whining hell the votes are even finished being counted.

[lilfroggy]

70. And that man also jumped at the earliest possibility to end...

To end his presidential aspirations..Kerry oculd have kept fighting and he knows it....what another divisive Clarkie, huh?

[angrydemocrat]

90. LMAO

Kerry is still fighting and has been so why don't you take off the blinders. And where in the hell is Edwards in this fight has he sent any messages to supporters? NO Oh I take that back he is on his farewell tour pi$$ing and whining like a spoilt brat instead of helping in the fight. Has he been seen or even mentioned in supporting the recounts in Ohio? No Oh I forgot they did say Kerry/Edwards campaign whoopee the only one mention in supporting the recount is Kerry. Kerry is the one that give the go ahead, Kerry is the one keeping up with things and poor poor Edwards is out on a farewell tour when the election isn't even over. And what is your problem with Clark already? The difference between Clark and Edwards is Clark wouldn't run off whining on a farewell tour he would be there with Kerry doing his part. And don't tell me this pitty story about Edwards wife having cancer. I really feel for her and hope she is doing better. But as far as Edwards goes he sure got time to go on a farewell tour to whine but he doesn't have time to help do his part in this election? Hell he isn't the one with the cancer. Hell Kerry had prostate cancer and it sure as hell didn't slow him down and keep him from doing his job. So don't tell me about about how Kerry and Clark are quitters. The quitter is out on the road giving a farewell tour whining like a spoilt brat when the election isn't even over.


And let me say I have nothing against Elizabeth and I always liked her she is a very nice lady and I do hope she recovers from this cancer because I know people who have had it and it is terrible. I have alwys liked Edwards himself it just pisses me off as it does others. I still can't believe he is on a farewell tour acting like a spoilt brat whining when the election isn't over and he should have his a$$ helping Kerry.


Last maybe I am taking what Edwards said wrong I'm not going to say I havn't. But I will say I am far from being the only one that did take it that way. As you have seen even Keith Olbermann seen it as a slap in the face. And the more I here it the more I believe I'm right. But we will see and if I'm wrong then I will be the first to admit it.

[PopSixSquish]

92. A Farewell Tour to the People of North Carolina

John Edwards chose not to run for his Senate seat again. Therefore regardless of what happens or doesn't happen with recounts in Ohio or Florida, he's thanking supporters in North Carolina whom he will no longer represent in the Senate. The two are not mutally exclusive.

You may recall that Joe Lieberman did not give up his Senate seat while campaigning in 2000 and was roundly criticized in some quarters (even here on DU in the aftermath) for it.

And John Edwards didn't want the Kerry/Edwards campaign to conceed Ohio and the election. He and some of the other LAWYERS (oh lordy, there's that word)attached to the campaign wanted to continue fighting for the votes.

And now, some of those dastardly LAWYERS are in Ohio filing papers to join the recount.

[bunny planet]

44. Think about it this way, what would throw the Repubs off the trail more

than the VP candidate acting like he's moving on, and trashing his party and running mate. Maybe I'm delusional (it's possible) but I don't think Kerry or Edwards are moving on, and I think all public statements made by major Dem and liberal figures have been less than forthcoming and misleading for a reason. Call me crazy. I just think they are trying to let the * crime family think they are not united, moving on, or infighting. Easier to spring a trap that way.

[theboss]

45. And so begins the 2008 race....

"We can't be a party of elites and intellectuals," he said.

This is going to be the new theme. In the latest Rolling Stone, it was pointed out that Bush won something like 25 of the poorest 26 states. Somehow, the Republicans have become the party of "the little guy" while Democrats have become the country club set. This is not the way it should be.

[spooky3]

48. People seem to be reading MUCH more into this than what JE said.

I'll admit I didn't sign up to read the whole article (don't need any more spam) so I apologize if there is more in it that no one is quoting here but reacting to nonetheless.

There is no slap from Edwards in this that I can see. What I see is a few DUers who are still sore that their candidate didn't get chosen taking the opportunity to twist and push words, in order to slap unfairly at Edwards. Here is a man who devoted himself tirelessly to a very long campaign, even when it refused to send him to the south or even the borderline south, where he might have won many of the votes some of you think he should have won.

He's entitled to give his views especially when he has taken care NOT to be specific in criticism and to speak only about what could be done in the future, and as far as I'm concerned, entitled to respect for doing so.

[AP]

50. This is so obvious it probably doesn't even need to be stated.

But thanks for stating it anyway.

[LittleClarkie]

65. Refused to send him to the South?

He asked to be sent, and was sent, into rural areas.

And to dispute what another said, he was not seen during part of the campaign because the media chose not to cover him, not because he wasn't out there working.

No slap. A comment on the Dem's campaign as a whole. But not a slap to John Kerry. I believe Edwards when he says they became very close during the campaign. I think KO was reading more into this than was needed.

[lilfroggy]

72. Actually, he was sent to Urban areas towards the end, because..

They were impressed with his performance in the debate against Cheney...so they moved him.

[lilfroggy]

71. They're not misreading...they're reading what they WANT to read...

So they can attack Edwards more and build up Clark. Sorry, but Clark will lose if they nominate him. More divisiveness from Clarkies trying to spew crap.

[LittleClarkie]

75. Obermann's a Clarkie?

Eh, I'm a bit of a Clarkie too. Why Clark? Why not Deaniacs? Or Gore folk? I didn't notice an over-abundance of Clarkies bashing Edwards.

[lilfroggy]

79. Yeah, that's why you bash "SOMTW" on ForClark.com's blog..n/t

[LittleClarkie]

83. As I sit here with a cartoon question mark over my head

Hrr?

What is SOMTW?

Where on forclark.com?

I went over there, but couldn't find anyone with a variation of my name. Couldn't find SOMTW. Couldn't find you in your current incarnation (except I misspelled lilfroggy as lilfroggie).

Did do a find for you on a search of DU though. Do you have Clark "issues"? "Typical Clarkie" comes out of your cyber mouth an awful lot, I must say. Is there a "typical Clarkie"? What are our characteristics.

(The only one I can think of is a vague impression that Clarkies had less trouble with supporting Kerry than did some. But I could be wrong.)

You wouldn't want to link that bashing thread at forclark.com so I can see what "I" said, would you?

[lilfroggy]

86. SOMW

SOMW stands for Son of a Mill Worker......
Type SOMW into search and several results will come up.

[LittleClarkie]

87. Okay, I see now -- SOMW equals Edwards

Sooo, which one is supposed to be me bashing Edwards?

Or was that a royal "you".

[robbedvoter]

66. "elites and intellectuals?" But where are the "limousine liberals?"

As a fancy pants elitist I resemble that remark.
For the sarcasm impaired: nothing wiser that buying into their insulting stereotypes and reinforcing them.
I am waiting with baited breath for him to attack bleeding hearts liberals and tax and spend democrats. geez John, we won, no need to grovel so much!

[LittleClarkie]

78. What is an elitist really?

I live in Wisconsin We're about as working class as you get, and yet I hang at the pub with one guy who goes to see musicals, several who like microbrews instead of a good ol' Bud, several who consider playing trivia to be a fun evening, and so on. I know a truck driver who liked green tea. We're all in a Red County.

Then there's me. I like lattes, I like chai, I like musicals, I read the New York Times, and I have been known to try stuff in the natural food section on occasion. I went to college, but my upbringing was lower middle to middle class at best.

During the summer you will see Wisconsin people hang gliders, wind surfers, water skiers and waterjets. If the media saw Kerry doing any of these things, they'd call it an elitist pasttime. And yet I'm pretty sure it's not our super-rich I see on the lakes.

I think the media are the ones out of touch with what real average everyday Americans do.

Kerry's upbringing was quite middle class, unlike Bush's, who actually fits the bill more. Any benefits he got from being a Brahmin came from rich relatives. Poor Kerry, all of the baggage of being a Brahmin without any of the benefits. He's not even truly rich now. A couple million was the largest estimate I saw. Oh, he gets toys, but the fortune belongs to Teresa, and they have a pre-nup, so it shall remain so. He has one house he bought with her, and it was mortgaged for the campaign. Some rich guy. :eyes:

It is indeed ridiculous to here Dems defining themselves with a Rush Limbaugh talking point. I read an article in the Progressive that made the same assumption. I guess you'd call it "conventional wisdom," which is to say what enters into the mainstream as accepted isn't always the whole truth, or even part.

[w4rma]

80. He's not slapping Kerry. He's slapping some folks in the Democratic base

who seemingly will not allow someone who talks about 'religion and other "common values" that {regular} people can relate to'.

When Gov. Dean tried to talk about religion in the primaries, many many Dems attacked him for even talking about religion. It was very very bad and Dean had to back off of even broaching the subject because of it.

[LittleClarkie]

82. That makes more sense to me

I didn't see it as a Kerry bash at all.

[FrenchieCat]

84. I don't think that anyone stopped Edwards' from talking about

what he decided to talk about...which, in his case, was the 2 Americas. that was his focus....not so much religion...but some common values, yes.

It's not talking about religion but how one talks about it that makes the difference. Problem Dean had was his statement of how he had stopped going to church because of some fight about a bike trail...or some silly nonsense like that. That doesn't sound to me like a man who is serious about his faith.

Edwards should say what he wants to say......period. I don't think each and everyone of his comments should be parsed. I will say, however, that he said that all of the votes would be counted. That's all I am asking for at this point.

Just remember, it's the media stupid! They decide and they report what they want. We buy it or we don't...and most are.

Edwards can blame Kerry. Kerry can blame Edwards. We can blame the both of them and the voting machines.....but at the end, it's the media that really called the shots throughout this election....primaries and all.

If we had honest media, any candidate would have won against Bush. We don't....which makes it hard to say that anyone of them would have won against Bush and done better than Kerry.

Yea...I'm a Clarkie, but I don't think that threads as to whether Clark or Edwards or Dean would have won had one of them been the candidate are very helpful...since they are all based on hypothetical woulda, coulda, shouldas. Of course, we all have our opnions as to what might have happened....but it's all in theory.

My opinions are mine...and here they are:

Was Kerry the best candidate for the Dems? I personally don't think so.
Did Kerry choose the right VP? I personally don't think so.
Did Kerry utilize his VP correctly? I personally don't think so.
Did Kerry run a good campaign? Not particularly.
Did many voters vote FOR Kerry or against Bush? I think most voted against Bush...I know I did.
Should Kerry run next time? He probably will, but probably shouldn't.
Should Edwards run next time? He probably will, but probably shouldn't.
Why should each run? Cause while they were in the senate...and even had a senate majority for a short while during the summer of '01...they never really went to bat for the issue of the voting machines...or common sense voting reforms or media reform....the things, that in the end analysis are most crucial to our democracy and most crucial to Democrats.

The media makes and breaks our candidates. Hell, that's why McCain is such a star. Not because he is as awesome as some believe...but because the media pumps him up anytime they have a chance. Guess they feel guilty for the 2000 smears. But the media is also why why Bush is President and we are at war.

It's that simple. What will be complicated is how do we change the media, now that we have even less power? How do we encourage election reforms? Maybe that's what Edwards should talk about...since he should want to stand for something important that makes a real difference to the next election and to our democracy at this point.

[NVMojo]

88. I'd vote for Edwards and/or his great wife anytime!

[GetTheRightVote]

89. Saw Edwards in Daytona, FL - I would vote for him again easily

[LittleClarkie]

91. I thought I would add this to the discussion: from Senate Farewell

" I also want to say a word about my friend Senator Kerry. I embarked a few months ago on a journey with Senator Kerry, a fight, as we traveled across the country and fought for the things in which we believe. We shared our hopes for this country together. We worked hard to make America stronger. I developed a very strong, close, personal friendship with John Kerry during that time. John Kerry is a good man and he is a good American. I got the chance to see him when others didn't, when there were no cameras around, when there were no crowds. This is a man of strength and conviction and courage. He loves his children. He has a beautiful family, by the way. He and his wife Teresa and their kids became very close with my family and our children.

We feel an enormous affection for them and enormous connection with them because we were engaged in what we thought was a very important cause. It still is a very important cause.

But the reality is that John Kerry is somebody who has loved this country his entire life. He stood up and fought for this country his entire life. I am proud to have been able to spend the last few months fighting alongside him as he traveled throughout the country and the work that he did not just in this campaign but for all the years he served in this Senate before this campaign, and the years he will serve from here on are important. Every day he walks onto the floor of this Senate, the American people will be better for it.

He is my friend. He is my colleague. I trust him.

I believe, of course, that he would have made a great President, and I believe he has great work to do for this country in the days and years to come. It is an honor for me to be able to serve with him in this term."

Now tell me again he's bashing Kerry.