So now that we're GASSING THE IRAQIS with BANNED CHEMICAL WEAPONS...

[LynnTheDem]

how are the freeping rightwingnuts apologizing for this shit? I assume their pundits are simply ignoring it all?

I KNOW they're not saying...

BUSH IS GASSING THE IRAQIS! INVADE AMERICA!!! TOPPLE THAT WAR-CRIMINAL-WORSE-THAN-HITLER REGIME!!!

[sam sarrha]

1. LINK..........

[hippiechick]

2. here you go ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1033809


:hippie:

[StClone]

3. Liberal Media

Is hiding this from us. Nothing to see move along. And ignore those mass graves please.

[tuvor]

4. It's just bush loving others

like you'd like to be loved yourself.

Don't tell Mr. and Ms. America, okay? It'll just confuse them and somehow solidify their resolve that bush is doing God's work.

[From the south]

5. Your post is misleading

they are using napalm.... not gassing people

with that said...having seen the effects of fuel type weapons up close...i disagree with their use...

but its not "gassing" people

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue Wally]

9. Not "war gases"

White phosphorous and napalm are "incendiary weapons" and not "war gases. Yes they fall under the purview of the NBC types as a part of their "smoke and flame" mission, but are not considered in the same category as the nerve, vesicant, and lung gases.

[LynnTheDem]

13. But they ARE gasses.

They ARE chemical weapons.

They ARE "indiscriminate weapons" (classed as "WMD" by the GC and UN)

And they ARE banned.

And the US military is using them in Iraq.

[From the south]

14. A brief history of Napalm

http://tchester.org/fb/issues/napalm.html

"Napalm" is actually now a general term for jellied gasoline....its not a gas.

While your husbands occupation is noble... it certainly doesnt make you a a CBR expert.

I submit that my military background gives me a better perspective than your tangental perspective (your experience is second hand)

[LynnTheDem]

17. You don't even know what my qualifications are, dear.

You know what they say about assumptions... ;)

Napalm is a jelled GAS.

Gas; short form for "gasoline".

How does one make Napalm? Why, one uses gas.

[From the south]

19. Again your post was "misleading"

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[From the south]

26. Wrong because I think your first post is misleading?

and on the wrong board because?

There are plenty of things to rant about regarding the Bush administration. We dont need to stoop to misleading or making things up.

[LynnTheDem]

30. Wrong because...

Both WP and napalm are GASSES.

And wrong because just about every post you've made on this board to date have been apologizing for the bush cartel.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. it actually we are gassing them

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/080604Nichols/080604nichols.html

[tuvor]

6. Here's the link to the original story

Why not send this story to your MP or your Congressman today?

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14920109&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=fallujah-napalmed-name_page.html

[Guarionex]

8. when is the last time a congressman has done anything?

I called, and have emailed by representatives on various issues...I always get the same old, canned answers.

There's no democracy left...only what we make for ourselves...and the shit's gonna get worse.

[tuvor]

10. Every little bit helps, even if it's just a little bit. n/t

[enki23]

11. not "gassing" them. we're *burning* them.

these are "chemical" weapons only in the sense that all conventional explosives, incendiaries, etc., are chemical weapons. they aren't meant to poison you, they're meant to burn you to a crisp. of course, they are banned too. but we, after all, get to interpret the rules however we like, since we have a hefty portion of the world's "burning to a crisp" and "blown to little bits" weapons pointed at the rest of the world.

[LynnTheDem]

15. What is napalm? It's gasoline jelled with aluminum soaps

We can argue over the definition of "is", but napalm and WP are gasses.

[From the south]

16. lol

have you actually seen either one?

WP is a solid... and napalm is a fluid

neither are gasses

[LynnTheDem]

18. Yes I've seen both.

And both are GASSES.

Phosphine, PH 3, is a poisonous gas.

And how does one field detect the presence of WP or napalm? With gas chromatography.

Amazing.

"lol" at you. :)

[From the south]

23. do you have a link?

stating that we are using Phosphine against paople?

it is generally used as rodenticide

[LynnTheDem]

29. some links

US Using White Phosphorus Rounds on Fallujah

http://ignatz1138.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/12/1533/3578

New York Times: Confirmation of US gassing of Fallujans

http://www.nytimages.com/wieck_preview_page_NYT2004110939319

The Telegraph: All-out assault on Fallujah: "White phosphorus shells lit up the sky"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/11/09/wirq09.xml

[From the south]

33. none of those deal with Phosphine

[Dr.Phool]

20. I've gotta agree

We're not gassing them, we're burning them alive.

Napalm sticks to the skin, so you can't put the fire out.

White phosphorous was called "Willie Peter" back in Viet Nam. It was used in artillery shells and hand grenades, and one speck will burn a hole through your hand or arm, etc.

[LynnTheDem]

25. Yes we are gassing them.

Sure a lot of people who think "gas" can only be a vapour.

White phosphorus as either a yellow or colorless, volatile crystalline solid that darkens when exposed to light and ignites in air to form white fumes and greenish light.

WP does kill by inhalation, not just by dermal exposure.

[shadowgrouse]

39. Actually

WP won't burn right through you. One of the problems when treating WP wounds is that it tends to crust itself over and deprive itself of oxygen, thus the person removing it has to be careful not to break the crust and resume the burning.

WP is used by just about everyone, there was plenty of it found in Saddam's arsenal. It is used to create smoke primarily as an obscurant.

[Cheswick2.0]

24. Why do you feel this need to defend our actions in Iraq?

It is clear we are gassing them. Why the need to deny that fact.

[LynnTheDem]

27. I was wondering that myself

Seems quite the bush apologist.

[From the south]

28. There is plenty to criticize in Iraq

We dont need to make things up...

The fact is... neither Napalm or White Phosporus is "gassing"

[LynnTheDem]

31. FACT is

BOTH are GASSES.

BOTH are MADE with GAS.

BOTH DO KILL by INHALATION of the GAS VAPOUR.

BOTH are chemical weapons.

BOTH are banned.

BOTH are being used by the US in Iraq.

[From the south]

34. Wrong

Breathing white phosphorus for short periods may cause coughing and irritation of the throat and lungs. Breathing white phosphorus for long periods may cause a condition known as "phossy jaw" which involves poor wound healing of the mouth and breakdown of the jaw bone

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts103.html

I dont get where WP is made with gas... that is just flatly false

Do you have a link to a treaty that forbids the use of either?

[LynnTheDem]

38. Yes I do have links

Go google them for yourself. While you're at it, look up the US EPA website to learn how inhalation and/or ingestion of WP can cause death.

Also look up what WP is and what it gives off (hint; gas vapours)

And that, my dear, is the end of any conversations betwixt us. I don't like conversing with bush apologists. Have a nice life. :)

[Snivi Yllom]

41. info on WP and napalm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/incendiary.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/mk77.htm

[LynnTheDem]

43. And from your own links...

Incendiary munitions can kill or wound by immolation and by asphyxiation.

[enki23]

32. apparently some aren't really up on what a "gas" is

people, this is getting silly.

denying that napalming people is the same as gassing them is *not* the same as justifying its use. i object to BOTH, thank you very fucking much. but napalm is, in a very third-grade science understanding way, most certainly not a "gas."

when we talk about "gassing" people, as in "saddam hussein gassed his own people" or using a "gas chamber" or using "sarin gas" or "chlorine gas" or "mustard gas" or whatever... we're talking about something highly toxic (in some sense of toxic) which we get them to either breathe, or absorb through their skin, which kills them (or, failing that, hurts them very badly). when we talk about "napalming" people, we're talking about covering them with a semi-solid chemical mixture that burns them alive where they're standing. napalm is, to some degree, toxic as well, but it doesn't kill in that manner. because it's on fire. it's undergoing a very exothermic reaction, it's very hot, and it melts their flesh and burns them to a god damned crisp. these two significantly different ways to die, both incredibly fucking horrible.

of course, so is having your limbs blown off by a conventional explosive--also a chemical mixture undergoing a very exothermic reaction. we do not, however, seem to have the same difficulty distinguishing being blown up from being poisoned that we have distinguishing said poisoning from burning to a crisp.

this is a really stupid argument to have. i can't believe i'm actually posting this...

[LynnTheDem]

35. Sorry but YES actually napalm DOES kill by inhalation

As does WP. And by ingestion and by dermal exposure.

And that really is just a FACT.

[shadowgrouse]

40. Lots of things kill by injestion

lead kills by ingestion and by dermal exposure and lead fumes are quite hazardous according to the EPA. Are you arguing now that lead in bullets constitutes a chemical weapon and is banned?

Further, since we know Saddam had WP if you are classifying it as an illegal gas weapon doesn't that mean Saddam had WMDs and thus Bush and Co are off the hook?

[LynnTheDem]

42. Iraq hasn't had "WMD" since 1991

WP and napalm are banned weapons, and it's the US using them, NOT Iraq.

WP and napalm both give off toxic gas vapors.

Both are classified as incendiary weapons; incendiary = fuel; fuel = gas.

Are YOU trying to let bushCo off the hook?

[From the south]

36. My point is...

Her thread title is misleading

[distantearlywarning]

22. Well, now we know where the WMDs are in Iraq.... n/t

[Snivi Yllom]

37. 2 points

napalm is not a gas

Incendiary wepaons are not banned, but restricted in their use against civilians or civilian targets:

http://www.un.org/millennium/law/xxvi-18-19.htm
Protocol III on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons prohibits, in all circumstances, making the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack by any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat or a combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target.

The US would argue that the targets were not civilian.

[Doohickie]

44. Lynn, a couple of definitions:

Gas: One of the three common states of matter, the other two being solid and liquid.

Gasoline: A liquid fossil fuel, commonly refered to in the U.S. as "gas", even though it is a liquid.

So, when people say they are "gassing" someone with weapons, they mean they are using weapons whose working agent is in a gaseous state.

Gasoline is a liquid, not a gas, and the same is true of napalm, even though both emit gaseous vapor.