Paperclips and Blue Ribbons

[Atman]

The paper clip thread has taken off like gangbusters. We've seen other sites pick up the message, too. It is a simple and thought provoking symbol.

Today I received a PM asking "WTF! Look at the front page of DU!" and asking me to do something. I'm honored that anyone thinks I wield influence over Skinner and the crew, but I think that's a stretch. HOWEVER...it does beg the question...we know the paper clip thread was nominated for a front page story. The thread is close to 200 posts. Yet the 12-post blue ribbon cliche got the front page. Why is that?

First, remember, there are two distinct messages. I personally HATE any ribbon. They are total meaningless cliches at this point. The type on them is so small that no driver can actually see what the ribbon supports. At this point, it it assumed that virtually all of them are supporting our troops or something. You could put "Fuck The GOP" on a Yellow Ribbon, and I don't think a damned soul would even notice. But still, it is a different message from the paper clip.

I think the issue frightening some about the paper clip is the word "NAZI." We've already had one site say flat-out it would not have anything to do with any campaign that inferred Nazi-ism onto Bush. Too bad, he's missing the point.

WHEN YOU DISCUSS THIS ISSUE, DO NOT REFER TO NAZIS. Most people WILL immediately roll their eyes at you. It is NOT about Nazis, the paper clip is a symbol of solidarity against an unpopular, unelected government. I wore one out last night, but first I actually re-read the paper clip thread and practiced my message so as not to sound like a nut-job should someone ask. I'm glad I did. Someone asked, and I was able to succinctly state what the message was in one sentence. The person was impressed. (Unfortunately, I had no other paper clips with me to hand out).

Many people think George Bush was not duly elected, and many are angered by his occupation of the WH. He is "unpopular." We don't need to get into Nazi-ism. We don't even need to go into the history with the casual inquirer...just use the line above..."it's a symbol of solidarity against an unpopular, unelected government." If they want to know the origins, explain briefly that when Norway was invaded in WWII, the first thing the fascist government did was to shut down the free press. The people resorted to wearing paper clips to show their solidarity." Leave out Nazi's. Leave out fascists if that makes you uncomfortable. Hopefully any half-way intelligent person should be able to infer who we're talking about when we say "in WWII" and "invasion." Words like Nazi and Fascism, however accurate, still make most uncomfortable.

So, bring the troops home, sure. Slap ribbons all over your damn car until it looks like the stack of presents under a GOP Christmas tree. But wear a paper clip, too. They are not mutually exclusive by any means.

As to why Skinner and Earl chose to trumpet the weak 12-thread blue ribbon over the paper clip? Personally, as I told one guy who PM'd, I had no idea this would take off as it has. My original post was clumsily written, and frankly, not worthy of the front page, no matter how vital the issue. If DU wants to help advance this, then I'd be happy to write a proper press release or news story. In the meantime, I thing the paper clip thread and the relatively rapid acceptance of the idea, speaks for itself.

[xultar]

1. Count me in I'm down with whole Paperclip thing. I like it because

it is simple and subtle, plus it is on my body and not my car. It will go with me where my car can't. PLUS the whole ribbon thing is played out. There are so many connotations associated with the ribbon.

At first I was into the ribbon thing but none said what I wanted it to say. This says it. Clear and Simple.

[NMDemDist2]

2. linky-poo? n/t

[Atman]

3. Original thread is still active, on the first page of General: Politics

Forget yellow ribbons...WEAR PAPERCLIPS!

[NMDemDist2]

5. found it and kicked it to the top LOL

did you like my "message"?

found a big blue clip and stuck some small ones in my purse to give away

[DustMolecule]

4. Suggestions for the "succinct, one-sentence message" please

I'm gonna wear one to work tonight and KNOW I will get asked about it. If I say, as you suggest:

"symbol of solidarity against an unpopular, unelected government"

A LOT of people don't seem to know there are serious ballot counting/vote fraud issues out there right now. Also, out here in Boosh-country, their guy won! So, unpopular, unelected government would get me a 'nutjob' look.

To me the corporatism/slide to fascism on to malevolent big-brotherism and lots of other issues all linked together might be the meaning behind the paperclip I would wear. I'm not very good at 'communicating my meaning' oftentimes, so I need some help here.

My question is, what's a good "succinct one-sentence message"?

[Atman]

6. How about simply, as you stated...

It's a symbol against corporatism and big-brother government. That pretty much defines fascism, too.

[goclark]

7. What about "Bush Is Not My President"

You have a good point Atman!
Many will think that the word Nazi is scary.

The blue clip is really not about that really it is about "Solidarity" for the causes that we hold dear....

Make Every Vote Count!
Civil Rights
Health Care for All CitizensEnding The Wars
A Fair and Balanced Media

On edit: and an unpopular and unjust government

Not sure how to word it in one sentence so let's get some help.

[goclark]

8. Good question, need answers

from creative minds!

Please keep this kicked all afternoon.

[oneold1-4u]

11. Symbols

Are the message that we all have the right to "disagree agreeably!" They can be more powerful than words or any other weapon of violence. A silent message can easily be exported to the world!
The suggestion that those believing in diversity might wear an outer article of clothing (scarf, hat, jacket, whatever) inside out or back wards, to show that we don't walk the same direction of the bigoted, the religious right, the anti-constitution people.
When the day says we can't wear clothing, no one will know that the king is naked!

[July]

51. My version:

For the will of the people, resistance to government that ignores the will of the people.

[akwapez]

9. OK, nobody wants to use the word Nazi, How about fascist?

There is no doubt (here) that this is a fascist gov't....But is the word too strong and too misunderstood?

[goclark]

10. That word would be a no no too

because this is about

"Solidarity" for those of us that oppose an unjust government.

[xultar]

12. Solidarity for the Oppressed among us...

[Atman]

13. We have to be very careful about wording

I hate to sound like I'm slapping anything down; this thread should be a good "think tank" type experience. However, I am speaking from past years in marketing, doing focus groups, getting into people's heads, observing the culture. I know one guy who laughs if you even mention that free speech is being curtailed. He starts making a Goofy voice (as in the Disney character) saying "Gawrsh! He's oppressin' me! Did you see that? He's oppressin' me!" Why the Goofy voice I haven't figured out, as his line seems to be from Monty Python's Life Of Brian. But I digress.

Oppression is too strong for all but those already on board. This is America. Who the hell is being oppressed? There you are, wearing you stupid paper clip, protesting the government. Hardly sounds oppressive to me. You want oppression? Move to....

You get the idea.

Nazi is simply completely off the table. For obvious reasons. It really bothers me that it is, because how do you alert someone to something horrible by talking about it in pleasant terms? Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade, and Bush does have a Nazi legacy, and is using Nazi tactics. But still, the Nazi's killed 6 million Jews. Bush hasn't built ovens and rounded up people and...again, whether you agree or not, it derails the argument and allows room for the listener to dismiss you out of hand.

Fascist isn't nearly as bad, but we must consider our audience. This is the Wal Mart Nation, and like it or not, many are largely the product of a dumbed-down American school system. They couldn't define Fascism to you if their lives depended on it, and its sounds like just so much hysteria and scary talk.

We really need to keep a focused message. Stay away from terminology which allows your audience to be dismissive of the message.

It's a symbol against corporatism and big-brother government. Thanks to DustMolecule for that suggestion, since it actually defines fascism in terms we all know and understand. Even "corporatism," while a relatively obscure term for most, is pretty self explanatory...-ism's in this context are easily recognized to be bad, and very few will argue that the creeping corporate takeover of America is both obvious and bad. Only CEO's would likely disagree. And this message is so short and sweet, and needs little further explanation. If it leads to a discussion, the broader points can be brought into play, while still avoiding the scary words.

It's a symbol against corporatism and big-brother government.

I like it!

[xultar]

15. Corporatism---I work for a corporation...so am I part of the problem?

Personally I think Corporatism will alienate a lot of people also.

[Atman]

18. Everybody works for a corporation

Okay, obviously not everybody. Some of us are self employed, but most of our audience will be employees of a larger entity.

BUT...even if you work for a corporation, do you want it taking over your government? Sell your soul to the company store?

See how easy that was to refute your point? If the person you're talking to doesn't understand and says what you did, just tell him that. "Great. But I don't want my boss setting government policy." Bossman is usually a jerk. They'll get it.

[xultar]

21. Nope but people have away of making you feel as though you

are selling your soul you are simply just trying to put food on the table. So, technically you're not refuting my point, because who would want to sell their soul?

Don't we always say that if your not a part of the solution you are a part of the problem. So if my company dontates to a Dem candidate am I supposed to send a letter to the CEO telling them...not to do that because they are bluring the line between corporate America and Democracy. (My company corporation is VERY blue. They gave more money to Dems candidates than Rethugs.) I was very happy as a matter of fact elated to hear about that.

We as Dems have a way of demonizing each other especially over this whole corporate whore/corporatista thing. Unfortunately, it appears as though we are doing exactly what the GOP does to it dissenters. We appear to be saying that if you're not down with the cause against corporations then you're a rethug and you're against us.

Now, I know that you'll say well, "I'm not saying were' against corporate America." And you would be right, but try to explain that to a lady in the grocery store who asks why you're wearing the paper clips. She'll be tuned out before you even get to the part when you say you're not against corporate amercia.

[Atman]

23. I think you are making too much of it.

There will be scenerios in which this becomes more difficult to explain. You may have hit on one, but that does not make it impossible to explain.

I personally find it unlikely that the grocery store clerk would pursue the issue to the extent you mentioned. Or else she likely wouldn't be a grocery store clerk. However, if she did, it isn't too difficult to explain that being a corporation is not bad in and of itself. However, under Bush, corporations are being given access to the most inner sanctums of government, and being placed right in the President's cabinet, where they set policy in their own interest.

Use Corporatocracy if you'd like, but that may raise even more questions. The point is, this corporate take over of the government is part and parcel to facsism itself. That is the whole point of the symbolism. We can't water it down to the point of meaninglessness, or we might as well wear yellow ribbons so as not to offend anyone.

[rman]

49. most people do understand that corporatism

is about the owners, CEO's and big stockholders of corporations, not about laborers.

I'm not against business or entrepeneurship as such, but i am against corporate anything when it is more powerfull then government.


“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, IS Fascism.”
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism , since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
-- Benito Mussolini

[Cheswick2.0]

42. Most people work for corporations

most of them are not toadies. They know they're being used.

[NMDemDist2]

14. here's my suggestion, needs a bit of help tho.....

I tend to want to downplay the Nazi angle and go for a more generic "resistance" message IE

"The paper clip is a symbol of resistance first used in the 1930's (40's??) to show solidarity against unlawful war and oppression."

or something like that.......

on edit how about

"The paper clip is a symbol of resistance first used in the 1930's (40's??) to show solidarity against unlawful war and corporate greed."

[xultar]

16. I like this one. I think Solidarity against the unlawful war is pretty

good.

It's simple and I think down the line everyone can agree with it.

Let's keep it simple and to the point on one single issue.

[akwapez]

17. I too don't care for corporatism...

I think solidarity is an important part.... other terms to consider:
hypocrisy
tyranny
?

Since it goes beyond a simple war protest, I don;t think bringing the word war in is appropriate either,

[NMDemDist2]

19. reword it then to your liking.... n/t

[akwapez]

20. symbol of solidarity against an abusive gov't??

abusive is a broad term that reflects much of what has been discussed

[xultar]

22. True, but to whom is the government being abusive? There in lies

the big scary monster.

[akwapez]

24. still brainstorming here...

..but that is what I liked about "abusive" because it can be applied anywhere. Abusive against the Constituion, common man, the UN, Iraq, yada yada yada

[July]

32. "Against government abuse of power"? nt

[DustMolecule]

25. Still brainstorming here as well.....

typed about 6 different posts (which I never posted, but saved ;-) ). The subject is large with many tenticles....hard to frame in that one 'pregnant' sentence....the one that will invite someone to want to hear more....the one that give birth to the 'light-bulb' moment....

[s-cubed]

26. SOLIDARITY FOR DEMOCRACY & FREEDOM AGAINST GREED & BIG BROTHER GOVERNMENT

I have a sister who works for *, actually now, she is delighted that Condi is her new boss - sorry, you can pick your friends, but not your family.

Anyway, she has worked a lot in the field of PR and with corporations on damage control after somebody screwed up, bigtime.

She says a positive message is lots more powerful than an negative one. Solidarity is positive, for democracy is positve, and then have your resistance to greed and big brother govenment. (Just because she's one of them doesn't mean she doesn't understand how to manipulate. In fact, maybe that's why.)

SOLIDARITY FOR DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM AGAINST GREEN AND BIG BROTHER GOVERNMENT

What do you think?

[goclark]

27. I like Solidarity for Democracy and Freedom

That is a good start and the words can flow depending who you are talking to, but "SOLIDARITY CLIP" sounds nice to me.
Let's keep brainstorming, this needs to last for history.

[Atman]

28. I LIKE IT!

Your sister is absolutely correct...positive is an easier sell. That is a large part of the GOP's bullshit whining about the left...we're not optimistic, always being negative. Good one!

[s-cubed]

29. THANKS!

[goclark]

38. Kick for Solidarity !!!!

[mogster]

30. Actually

The Dems/Left could just take over several of the old Rightwing slogans.

Smaller Government

Less Federal Spending

More Conservativity in Politics ;-)
(Like in what the word conservative really means, I mean)

And so on...

[goclark]

41. What about We Are SOLIDLY for....

We are SOLIDLY for an economy that works for all people.
America needs to put people back to work!


We are SOLIDLY for ending the war and bringing home our troops!

and

We are SOLIDLY for Finding a cure for CANCER and ASTHMA and PARKINSON's.

After all , this is not about Bush, this is much more than Bush, this is about issues that we hold dear.

You can not tell me that a person living in a RED state does not want to find a cure for Parkinson's, pay their house note and bringing our troops home.


We are wearing our SOLIDARITY CLIP because we feel strongly about real issues that matter to the American people.

[xultar]

31. I LOVE IT!!!! n/t

[chaska]

33. dupe

[chaska]

34. I'm thinking a paperclip will be hard to notice on a jacket, so...

I'm thinking of paperclipping a ribbon to my jacket. The ribbon wil l draw attention to the paper clip. Problem in this case is that the jacket's blue (a very common color for jackets). So what about a green ribbon and a paper clip? Any reason I shouldn't?

[Atman]

35. Staples sells big 5" paperclips

Look exactly like the little ones. They're brass, but you could spraypaint them.

And don't forget your car...

[goclark]

37. I love this thread! It's about positive thinking people

getting behind an idea instead of sitting and watching history go by and say nothing and do nothing. Or doing nothing but complaining.

The reason that this FRAUD issue was in Neutral gear for so long is thant people were depressed and went negative.

Negative gets you nada, let's have some action!

Let's keep MOVING and THINGKING POSITIVE and CLIP, CLIP, CLIP!

[goclark]

44. I'm thinking about a Blue Clip with a tiny red strip and a white strip

We all love our country and we are in SOLIDARITY that we want to be the party that brings people together , not divide citizens by regions and race.

Bush has allowed the flag and its colors to be the property of the Republican party, we own that flag just like they do,


If our CLIP is just blue, it will look like we are outsiders, not insiders.

Just a thought, what do you think?

[ldf]

36. sorry, but this thread is an insult

most of the posters on this thread have completely the subverted the whole concept of the paperclip.

all because "we must worry about what people think", the same old claptrap that got the democratic party where it is today.

the republicans don't worry about what people think. they come up with a mantra, pass the meme, get everyone on board, and stick with it.

and it works.

i am NOT going to reduce a powerful point to pablum.

it they don't get it yet, they will soon.

:grr:

[Atman]

39. Sorry, ldf, we're doing no such thing

This is simply fact...people react very strongly to terms like Nazi. They WILL shut you out immediately. They WILL. Try it. Mention Bush and Nazis to anyone but the die-hard among us, and you won't get far. That does not make the solidarity message less important. It only means we must be prepared to ENGAGE people. Ease them into it. Start with the the true, honest, but softer answer. Encourage them to go home and Google "Paper Clip Norway" and research for themselves.

Or bitch at us for recognizing reality. Your choice.

[goclark]

40. I'm with you Atman

I want to wear my SOLIDARITY CLIP to a political meeting.
I will take extras and pass them out.

I think I'll make little business cards to attach to the clips:

Solidarity for
Democracy and Freedom

I'll see what happens!

[Johnny Noshoes]

59. Whatever happened to Democrats who stand firm

You know ldf you have a point. When do we stop saying please don't hurt me to the bullies? I'm not saying pick a fight but when someone asks what the paperclip means calmly and clearly explain the symbolism. If the person gets an attitude walk away and don't waste time on someone whose mind you don't have much of a chance of changing. If they say something like its not that bad in a way that leaves an opening well then we try to educate them without making them feel like we think that they aren't too bright. We give them some ideas or info to search for on the net and maybe we've opened a mind to the possibility that America can be a better place. Most of all we should stand firm for what we believe in and not back down in the face of bully boy school yard crap.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
-- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

[Cheswick2.0]

43. Corporations running government = Fascism (or corporatism)

that is exactly what is going on now. We are living in a fascist state. If you do not tell people the truth then you will never move them. You are need to stop being so freightened abouyt what people wil think.

[akwapez]

45. I actually agree with both sides here

I think it is extremely important to remember where the paper clip idea came from and what this represents in today's world. It is a very strong statement.
However, negativity and especially talk as it relates to things that people feel extreme or strongly about, even though they don't fully understand the term fasiscm, closes ears. A positive introduction such as "solidarity for a stronger America" doesn't shut people out right away. We have to remember that the majority of Americans are not bad people, they have simply been corrupted by bad people. They still want the same things we want (more or less). Educating these people is key, and you can't talk to someone who you have already closed out.

[goclark]

46. Well stated

We must get attention not turn off anyone

[Atman]

47. Kicking for the workplace DUers

who might have missed it over the weekend.

The card will be posted soon!

[Rambis]

48. I have been stopped 3 times

and I have said that I am silently protesting the rise of fascism in the United States. The undermining of our civil right etc etc the corporate control of media etc etc and the fact that our election was not accurate. I end by saying if they come for you under the guise of "protecting" you from terrorism who is going to be left to stop them? I am also wearing the black not me arm band.

[donsu]

50. just purcheased a package of large paperclips, I'm ready

nt

[Atman]

52. Need some help here. Or not...

I could easily just post a link to my own site. But I don't want to. I don't want this to appear to be some sort of commercial endeavor. Also, I cannot afford to pay for more bandwidth if this gets all over the place. I'm broke as it is. I posted this request for url's for the Solidarity Clip card, but no one has responded. I started it as a new thread because this one was already getting so unwieldy...check it out. I'm ready to post the card that some of you requested; it is all done, but I want to be able to put a couple educational links on it so people can get the full message about fasicsm and Norway without having to overwhelm the card with negative stuff. Please...

I need one fascism link and one Norway link new thread.



1st Amendment Shoppe

[eleny]

53. I like it too

;-)

[Mutley]

54. kick n/t

[Atman]

55. Card available for download

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1414364

[bajamary]

56. my blue ribbon says: "Pray for Peace, Work for Justice"

Hi DU Folks,

I got so sick of these ribbons that I designed my own. It says:

"Pray for Peace, Work for Justice"

It's a blue ribbon (sorry) with white lettering, large enough to actually read.

You can see it on my website:

www.4-my-country.com

I'm new to DU and I look forward to many interesting conversations.

Cheers,
Mary

[Atman]

57. Three posts and a donor already!

Welcome to DU, Mary!

[bajamary]

58. thanks

Thanks for your welcome.

Given our horrible political situation, DU's a good way to keep insanity at bay.