Joe Lieberman (D), the Gentleman from Connecticut

[gottaB]

If Joe Lieberman were to lose his Senate seat to a Republican, would you consider that a political loss or a gain?

[GCP]

1. Even a DINO like Lieberman is better than a puke eom

[GRLMGC]

2. yeah

we need the bodies.

[loyalsister]

3. True

I could do without the voice, however.
Whenever he starts his moralizing, I just cringe.

[AndyTiedye]

4. Depends On If He Sticks With Us in the Filibusters

Filibusters are all that matter anymore, and even that may be gone soon.

Senator Lieberman (Likud, CT) has has stabbed us in the back so many times,
but as long as there is any hope of filibustering Booosh**'s Supreme
Court nominations, we need all the warm Democratic bodies we can get.
If he won't help us there, he is no good to us at all.

[Radical Activist]

5. Unless it effects who has control in the Senate

I can't see much difference as long as the Republican is Moderate, which would probably be the case if they were from CT.

[CTLawGuy]

6. in CT, a gain

most connecticut republicans are pretty liberal.

[fujiyama]

7. Every one Dem that leaves

is one step closer to a filibuster proof majority. We can't really afford to lose any more seats - 5 more losses and we literally will mean nothing in the senate.

And yes, that means I'd even take Lieberman over any puke.

[rucky]

8. same shit, different smell n/t

[Sandpiper]

9. William F. Buckley supported Lieberman's run for the Senate

Need I say more?

[kohodog]

10. Lieberman won't lose to a republican.

But he might lose in a primary to someone like Blumenthal, and that would probably be a gain unless seniority would make a difference. Lieberman is more hawkish and more consertive than many republicans, but he does stand withdems on some crucial issues like judges, etc.

I would never wish for any Republican over him, but we certainly can find and elect a more progressive dem in CT.

[hollowdweller]

11. He's a hawk and socially conservative but on the environment and

issues for working people he's sided more with the democrats.

[gottaB]

12. anybody want to take a strong position in favor of indifference?

;)

That seems to be where the debate lies.

[kohodog]

13. How do we debate milk toast? n/t

[NightTrain]

14. Depends on the Republican.

There are a fair number of Republicans who are a lot more progressive-minded than Holy Joe. (I'm from Connecticut, by the way.)

[gottaB]

15. I suppose I should have included another option

I'd like to debate the wisdom of indifference, but it seems that some who chose that option would like to discuss the issues differently.

My sense from reviewing voting records is that regardless of rhetoric or personal convictions, there are real limits to the progressiveness of Republicans in the Senate. The most liberal Republicans side with the rightwing more often than the most conservative Democrats do.

Can you name a Republican Senator you'd prefer to Joe Lieberman?

[lastliberalintexas]

17. NOPE

"Can you name a Republican Senator you'd prefer to Joe Lieberman?"

Because you're right- there isn't one. Apparently a lot of these people have never looked at Lieberman's record.

[IndianaGreen]

31. Lieberman is a crypto nazi warmonger

His support for PATRIOT and for the war in Iraq, and his cheerleading for a new war against Syria and Iran, makes him an enemy of peace and a crypto nazi warmonger, right alongside George W. Bush.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. Actually I sort of agree

But that characterization includes more of our elected Dem officials than just Lieberman. I certainly didn't and don't agree with him on his IWR and Patriot Act votes. But then, Kerry, Edwards, and a whole host of others deserve the same kind of criticism. But they don't get it like Lieberman does.

I just wish we could get people to hold all of our Dems' feet to the fire, instead of going after just Lieberman. :shrug:

But he is still much more liberal on social issues and domestic policy than most people here seem to know. Warmonger? Probably. But still better than the repubs, who are warmongers AND anti-choice AND anti-gay rights AND pro-Bush tax cuts for the wealthy AND... You get the picture!

[IndianaGreen]

30. Lowell Weicker was a lot better than Holy Joe

but some voters vote exclusively on the basis of the letter that follows the name rather than the candidate's stand on the issues.

Here in Indiana there is a DNA pool of people that vote for "Rs" no matter what.

[gottaB]

32. Lowell Weicker was a maverick, a liberal Republican

Is there room for him in today's Republican Party? The conservatives hounded him. Lately he's been endorsing Democrats.

A very good comeback, IndianaGreen. It would be a much different proposition if the Republicans ran a candidate to the left of Lieberman. It didn't occur to me, but of course there was Weicker.

[lastliberalintexas]

16. What horsehockey

To the posters who say he's no better than a repub- even a liberal repub- please find me one who has a better, more liberal voting record overall than Lieberman.

Here's his voting record and interest group ratings-

http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0141103


And here's the lionized Chafee's voting record and interest group ratings-

http://vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=BRI43231

Hell, you don't have to get any further than the NARAL vs. National Right to Life Comm to see a pretty big difference. But keeeep going- look at the tax ratings. If you don't know that those are right wing anti-gov't groups giving Liberman low marks and Chafee fairly high marks, then shame on you. And well, if you can get past the category of "Conservative" groups and their ratings for Chafee and still favor him over Lieberman, then maybe there is something to dolstein's charges of anti-semitism in the dislike of Lieberman, even if I never believed that in the past.


And Chafee is by far the most liberal repub they have. So I'll still take Liebermen, thank you very much. Though we do need to work on him with regard to certain issues.

Criticize him all you want for the Iraq War issues (but of course you have to attack about half of our Dems for that- even that Massachussetts liberal named Kerry). Criticize him for the whiny, moralizing voice. But damn people. Look at his actual record. This man is no Zell Miller.

[arcos]

18. well, to be fair...

Jeffords' record was more moderate when he was a Republican, but after he switched he definitely turned left. That makes me think that maybe he was just trying to fall in line with his party. Probably that's the case with Chafee too.

[gottaB]

20. That's a prime reason why party affiliation matters

I don't have anything to say for or against Lincoln Chafee at this time, except that I am opposed to his party affiliation. The Republican Party is up to no good in the Senate. Even well-intentioned Republicans can't accomplish anything decent in that environment. I respect anybody who chooses to be a Democrat. (No, not including Zell Miller. He has chosen to betray us. He is no longer a Democrat.)

[CBHagman]

26. Thanks for doing that.

You beat me to the punch.

When Al Gore chose Lieberman as his running mate in 2000, the first news report I heard referred to Al Gore as having chosen "from the left." I also recall buying a guide to feminist issues and seeing that Lieberman was reliably progressive on women's issues.

It's only in the last few years I've heard squawking about him being too right-wing for the Democratic Party. I'm glad you took time to post actual positions, lastliberalintexas.

[donheld]

19. Yes he's a DINO

but he does do us some good, unlike Zell Miller.

[ibegurpard]

21. As long as he's just a voice in the party

and his philosophy on many issues is not that of the party in general, he's willing to stick with the party to defeat right-wing bullshit and he's not the President then I don't have a problem with him.

[mandyky]

22. I heard the progressives will be targeting his seat

It may come down to sacrificing the seat to GOP, but I guess we need to weed out the Liebermans and Millers.

[gottaB]

25. In baseball, a sacrifice should advance a runner into scoring position

Where's the score in your scenario? I can see advancing a better candidate than Lieberman, if that's what Connecticut Dems want, but I don't understand the thinking of those who would advance a candidate whom they expect to be defeated. I'd call it cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

[mandyky]

28. I don't think they'll run someone they think will lose

But I think they are willing to take a chance - I forget where I saw it. Maybe an article I read at Smirking Chimp a few days ago.

This is not my scenario, it is something a group of folks are considering to counter the DLC BS.

[ISUGRADIA]

29. It's friggin' ridiculous to even compare Zell Miller's

Senate positions and votes to Lieberman's. Take some time and check out his voting positions. Lieberman's a liberal except for a handful of issues.

[Sanity Claws]

23. Can't stand him

The more I heard him, the more I grew to hate him.

[AlohaNabors]

24. I do not understand why so many hate Joe L.

Joe is from my home state and I now live in Hawaii.

Joe when running as vp, got his state and fla to go for the ticket.

Joe campaign for Kerry in Conn. and won his state for kerry again.

Edwards did not win his state.

Gore could not win his own state.

Clinton's have not been able to deliver Ark the last two elections.

My Joe delivers and I thought that was what is important, electoral votes.

We need people that can win their states on our ticket. Kerry at least did that.

[JohnKleeb]

27. I don't like the hatred for him either but

he didn't win those states for Gore and Kerry, Connecticut is a solid dem state, I am not a big fan of Lieberman but I don't think he's nearly as bad as people say, now does his rhetoric sometimes upset me, yes but I'd rather have him as senator than what I got here in Virginia.

[leesa]

34. The term "gentleman" does not suit this warmonger.

[gottaB]

36. It is customary to refer to Senators by their seat

, and to do so respectfully, e.g., Ms. Clinton may be referred to as "the Gentlewoman from New York."

The practice can be traced back to Thomas Jefferson's Manual of Parlimentary Practice, although it appears to have been superseded by Dick Cheney's Frank Exchange of Views.

[Larkspur]

35. I don't plan on voting for Lieberman in 2006

I'm planning on writing in "Rachel Corrie." If I can't do that, then I'll vote green or just leave the senate ticket unchecked.

I can't stand Lieberman.