Declare Victory And Leave

[CatWoman]

At a recent White House briefing, I asked press secretary Scott McClellan, "Why are we killing people in Iraq? What is the reason we are there, killing people?"

His answer: "The reason we are there is the same reason the international community is, is united in helping Iraq -- the international community is helping Iraq move forward on a free and peaceful and democratic future."

"There are terrorists and other Saddam loyalists who continue to seek to derail that transition to democracy, but they will not prevail," he added. "And we are there to partner with the Iraqi people as they work to realize a better future, one that stands in stark contrast to the past of Saddam Hussein and his brutal regime."

McClellan did the best he could to create a facade of international support, which doesn't exist in the real world, for the U.S. occupation.

The United States did not invade Iraq out of some great humanitarian compassion to protect the Iraqi people, nor did the administration defend the invasion on those grounds early on. (Remember how Iraq was an imminent threat with weapons of mass destruction targeted to destroy us?) Nor did the Iraqis ask for us to save them from Saddam.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/3970162/detail.html

[Deja Q]

1. Not to defend *, but

oppressed people don't always ask to be freed. Too scared to.

That aside, it is correct that 'liberation' was NEVER spoken by the * regime until after some twerp in Minnesota came up with an arrogant sign saying "Support Our Troops". Which is a pathetic euphemism for "We support *'s war but are too cowardly to say it." We all support the troops. But we don't need to support the president. Trent Lott told us that,

[LynnTheDem]

47. Iraq IS NOT "humanitarian intervention"

Human Rights Watch:

War in Iraq: Not a Humanitarian Intervention

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k4/3.htm

US Majority; Iraq is not humanitarian intervention

Only 27 percent of respondents said they think that countries have the right, without UN approval, to overthrow another government that is committing "substantial violations of its citizens' human rights," although another 41 percent said that intervention could be justified if the violations were "large-scale, extreme and equivalent to genocide."

In the case of Iraq, however, only 32 percent of respondents believed both that human rights abuses equivalent to genocide justified intervention and that such extreme violations were occurring under Hussein's rule.

Asked, "Do you think that there are other governments existing today that have human rights records as bad as that of Iraq under Saddam Hussein?" an overwhelming 88 percent said there are.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/advocacy/protest/iraq/2003/1114lose.htm

And even that 32% American minority were wrong; there were NO ongoing or imminent atrocities justifying intervention occuring in Iraq under Hussein and hadn't been any such for over a decade.

[bryant69]

2. It's a pisser of a situation

On the one hand, I certainly wish the Iraqi people well. They've had a long and a rough time. On the other hand, I don't think the United States with our current leadership is really likely to do much positive in Iraq. What is our goal, Stability or Democracy? Probably will end up being stability, which will put another dictator on the throne.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[CatWoman]

3. I'm still trying to figure out

why the whole country had to be destroyed to catch, at best, three people and dispose them?

[cliss]

4. Yes. This is true.

We need to declare victory and go home. We are killing innocent men, women, children by the thousands.

This war is killing US. We are dying a death through hemorrhaging funds. We are bleeding financially. For every day that this nightmare continues, we are less and less able to protect ourselves militarily from some REAL threat.

And let's face it: we've made some enemies.

[Name removed]

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[CatWoman]

6. you're fucking kidding me, right?

[Name removed]

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[CatWoman]

10. No

Iraq is but another area where the US is committed to defending democracy and guarding the innocent. No?

We are not "defending democracy and guarding the innocent".

We are murdering innocents, and plundering their oil.

[Name removed]

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[CatWoman]

12. No apologies needed

not for me, anyway.

However, all of those dead, murdered and mutilated Iraqis lying in their graves might find your gesture of apologies acceptable.

The thousands of armless and legless soldiers lying in the military hospitals, too.

[Name removed]

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[JimmyJazz]

23. Faith in George and this administration?

[pres2032]

24. wish i had that kinda faith in the world

sorry, but i'm afraid this one will last a heck of a long time and will sadly cost thousands more American and Coalition lives.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. More troops died in the first Year of Iraq than in the first FIVE years of

Vietnam. Keep dreaming. You sound like my grandfather did in the sixties. :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

29. I trust you'll be enlisting soon?

Despite the small magnitude of this little skirmish, they do seem to be direly in need of more soldiers for it. You're surley planning on doing your part in this heroic effort to protect innocent people from "bad guys".

It will be over soon anyway, so it's not like you'd be making that big a sacrifice.

[JimmyJazz]

32. good point!

:toast:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

33. Oh, well then it's all right.

Since not nearly enough people have died in Iraq, if you compare it to both World Wars, Koran and Vietnam.
:eyes:
And I suppose Vietnam was all right, since more people died in Korea and both World Wars than in Vietnam. And Korea was all right, too, becuase a LOT more people died in World War 2. Right?
So it's all about numbers, huh? How many killed is the ONLY way to compare this.
Pardon me while I :puke:

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Hey, all that was nothing...

compared with the KT extinction. Until we start seeing fatalities at that rate, we're just being a bunch of whiners.:crazy:

[Bouncy Ball]

34. Skirmish?

Faith? Also, I take it you support the war?

[JimmyJazz]

25. Here - have a look at the price of "democracy"

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm

[CatWoman]

27. I was hoping he would, at least, read the text and accompanying link

in my original post.

[JimmyJazz]

30. I can barely even think about this war, Catwoman, let alone justify

it in any way. It sickens me and breaks my heart. I know I laugh it up in the lounge, but that's a means of escape from the atrocities this country has committed in the name of "democracy" - I know you feel the same way. Thanks for your original post. btw.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. How many fatalities have our troops sustained

in Bosnia since they've been there? How many in Germany since WWII ended?

When are you planning on enlisting?

[Leilani]

36. You sure are wrong on troop count in Bosnia

Last I heard it was about 6,000.

And just recently, NATO handed off responsibilities to the EU.
Since we belong to NATO, but not the EU, I think we're out of there.

[Name removed]

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[CatWoman]

15. you said it much nicer than I could have

[Name removed]

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[JimmyJazz]

22. Hello and welcome to DU

I sincerely hope you have enjoyed your stay here. :hi: It will be brief I can assure you. You are trying to defend and illegal war and you will be unable to do so on these boards.

We don't buy the "Saddam was a brutal dictator" argument here because we know that administration after administration has propped up brutal dictators including Saddam for as long as it benefitted the United States.

As for freeing the Iraqi people - surely you can't even believe that. The US is brutalizing prisoners and can't get electricity going...and why am I bothering, you'll be gone before I finish typing

tell your friends that God really doesn't kill kittens, ever. M'kay?

[Name removed]

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[kentuck]

17. omulcol, welcome !

:)...now we try to spare the rod while we are teaching... but you are going to be an excellent instrutor.

[omulcol]

41. Why thank you Kentuck !!!!

:D :D

Can't remember content of the entire post now ... it was deleted ... just a vague memory of irritation that compelled a reply.
Promise to be less acidic in future !

:toast:

[CatWoman]

43. well, I remember your post

and I'd also like to extend a hearty welcome to you :hi:

[omulcol]

44. Hi CatWoman,

Thanks for your welcome - :hi: and support.


Naroc !!

:toast:

hic !

[Name removed]

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[CatWoman]

21. you need to learn to distinguish when people are trying to help you

versus trying to tell you how to think.

[zulchzulu]

18. Wow. Are you draft age?

Sign up. Halliburton needs you.

[IndianaGreen]

38. Take off your rose colored glasses!

The USA does not like to let innocents become easy prey for the bad members of society.

ROTFLMAO! That's the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard! Take off your rose colored glasses and do some basic research on American foreign policy and military interventions and tell me is there is anything in there that can validate your statement above.

Here is one example:

Where was the racial word gook coined?

If you answered Vietnam, the answer is wrong.

It was in the Philippines when the racial slur of gook was first used by our glorious Marines to describe the Filipinos they were slaughtering.

[omulcol]

7. We don't do body counts .... neither can any-one else.

I've read about the children screaming for their ( dead) parents, others with horrific burns and lost limbs. I've read about mass graves containing hundreds of horribly charred Iraqi civilian men, women and children ... and remember Tommy Franks so casually remarking, "We don't do body counts" . But he didn't say no-one else could count them either ... did he !

Here is something worth pondering over ........

--------------------------- ---------------- -----------------------

You asked for my evidence, Mr Ambassador. Here it is

In Iraq, the US does eliminate those who dare to count the dead

Naomi Klein
Saturday December 4, 2004
The Guardian

David T Johnson,
Acting ambassador,
US Embassy, London

Dear Mr Johnson, On November 26, your press counsellor sent a letter to the Guardian taking strong exception to a sentence in my column of the same day. The sentence read:

"In Iraq, US forces and their Iraqi surrogates are no longer bothering to conceal attacks on civilian targets and are openly eliminating anyone - doctors, clerics, journalists - who dares to count the bodies."

Of particular concern was the word "eliminating".

The letter suggested that my charge was "baseless" and asked the Guardian either to withdraw it, or provide "evidence of this extremely grave accusation". It is quite rare for US embassy officials to openly involve themselves in the free press of a foreign country, so I took the letter extremely seriously. But while I agree that the accusation is grave, I have no intention of withdrawing it. Here, instead, is the evidence you requested.

For the rest go to the following link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1366350,00.html

[merwin]

8. Didn't we already...

declare victory? Bush, an aircraft carrier, "Mission Accomplished", a bunch of lies, etc?

[zulchzulu]

16. It's Bush's War....let karma fulfill its destiny

He's a cheerleader for the goddamn Devil. He will be...pffft...

[Leilani]

37. The problem with leaving Iraq,

is that it will free up the troops for Iran.

[magellan]

39. We won't be leaving Iraq anytime soon

We haven't even got a McDonald's up and running in Baghdad yet.

[Leilani]

40. LOL!

Right you are, but the future of McDonald's in Iraq looks pretty shaky right now.

[PurityOfEssence]

42. What, and leave all that tasty light sweet crude?

Not on your bippy.

Not hang around to prop up the Saudis? Not exhaust our treasure and prestige--well, that's gone already--to ensure that Israel can do whatever it damn well pleases? Not get revenge on Iran? Not show Syria who's boss?

It doesn't matter how many children we have to kill, we're staying 'til every drop's been sucked out of the ground and Israel's as safe as milk.

Then we can rebuild the temple, bring out the red calf, and really stir things up.

[LynnTheDem]

45. Iraqis were always free to JUST LEAVE IRAQ if they didn't like it there

There NEVER were any walls around Iraq. They were allowed to leave on holiday trips, on business trips, or permanently as ex-pats.

bushCartel still go on & on about HOW WEAK Hussein's hold on the Iraqis was...so HOW COME the Iraqis are kicking the shit out of us...and DIDN'T out of the VERY MUCH WEAKER Hussein???

Hmmmmmm...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. Not enough corpses yet.

When the prescribed number of bodies accumulate and the American people finally realize that the cost of shouting "We're Number One" and "USA! USA!" is cutting into their ability to buy things, the war will end.

To be followed by the usual "stab in the back" revisionism that the war was lost by timid politicians and leftist agitators in the pay of Moscow, or Osama, or whoever happens to fulfill the need to have a scapegoat for the oft-repeated failure of neo-colonialism and slaughter.

[LynnTheDem]

48. That's another crap thing about rightwingnuts; they're so BORINGLY

PREDICTABLE with their bullshit.

A little creative bullshit now & then would break up the monotony.