Big Brother Beats Us Up This Week

[Atman]

The "Intelligence Overhaul" Bill supplies drivers licenses for illegal aliens. But we get cool new ID's, too. This bill provides for a NATIONAL ID CARD.

Bar code tatoos on the back of your neck are in the next draft, I suppose.

[SnowGoose]

1. A national ID card, or uniform standards for driver's licenses?

I'm not contradicting you, I'm just asking, since you clearly know more about this than I do.

I heard (some time ago) that they wanted to standardize some of the information on driver's licenses - I guess I don't think of that as a national ID card (since it doesn't come from the federal government), but it's really not all that far from one.

[Atman]

6. Not a standardized drivers license, because millions don't drive

A separate national ID card. Does "show us your papers" mean anything to you?

This bill is an adjunct to the Homeland Security debacle.

[Name removed]

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[manic expression]

27. People will be

laughing, not crying, after looking at one of the most idiotic posts in Internet history.

[Name removed]

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[Atman]

34. Love it or leave it. Now THAT's original!

Welcome to DU. Great first post.

Do you plan on staying long?

"Go out and live the American Dream, isn't that what we are all out to do anyways?"

You miss the point. We WERE living the American Dream. Then the fascists took over.



1st Amendment Shoppe

[Name removed]

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[Atman]

38. I'm a second generation hippy

My dad was an activist. I've been as liberal as they come my entire life. I have pictures of my bedroom when I was a kid, with the front pages of the newspapers the day the Viet Nam war was declared over, hung like posters on my wall. I have voted republican once in my life, for Bill Weld for Governor of Massachusetts. He was a relatively good governor, and actually would have made a good statesman in DC...but you don't hear much about him anymore. HE was probably too liberal.

I admit, I was only being half "cool" about my welcome. I really don't like the "just deal with it" mentality. I AM just dealing with it. I am doing my part to right what I feel is a terrible wrong being done to this country. Just getting over it and enjoying life is not the answer to fascism. That much I know. I actually paid attention in History class...that approach didn't work out too well for the Germans.



1st Amendment Shoppe

[Name removed]

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[Atman]

42. I speak from experience...the early days here can be tough

Call it "trial by fire." We're all about free speech here, but in an open forum like this, anybody can sign up and claim they're anything they want. And many do. But, there are many forums for conservative thought, and many of us see no reason to let a flame thrower crash the party. There is too much serious stuff to discuss, and if we wanted to be told we're idiots, well...Fox News and CNN and the rest of the MSM already do a find job of that.

I hope you stick around and help the cause. Every voice is needed!

[SnowGoose]

39. I'm going to act as though you were seriously interested in discussion

even though I kinda doubt it.

When you say "If all of you feel so strongly about being watched by 'Big Brother' then leave.", it seems unreasonable.

What you seem to be saying is that we don't have the right to criticize the government in our homeland. I was born here, I've got just as much right as you do to criticize the policies of the government - I'm assuming here that at *some* time in your life, the government has done something you disagree with. Don't you want the right to criticize the government?

You also say "Go somewhere else where you think you won't have any problems. I can promise you that you will want to comeback." Actually I *have* lived in another country (have you?) and have traveled extensively in many more. America is my home, but I'm not so naive as to think it's perfect - that would be "fatherland" not "homeland".

Now if, as I suspect, you're really a conservative come over here to stir things up, think about this: bush will *not* be in forever, whatever you may think. There will someday be a democrat sitting in the white house who you will likely hate every bit as much as you hated Bill Clinton. Do you really want him to be able to watch you with no restrictions the way our government can watch us now? Specifically, reading your email, tapping your phone without judicial review, keeping track of your purchases and library records, coming into your *home* while you are not there, and never having to tell you that any of this has occurred? I suspect you'd be screaming bloody murder, not thinking "gee, I guess I should just trust the president."

One last thing: you said "And if you continue to ask moan and complain you'll never get anything done." I would argue that complaining and arguing are the *only* way you'll ever get any improvements or policies that are more to your liking.

[Name removed]

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[TheWatcher]

44. Shop. Conform. Bush. Oil. Terra. War. Spend. Shut Up. Obey.

"Get out to some of America's Vacation Spots. Get On Down to Disneyworld....."

Sorry, you want to live in Bushworld and go along to get along, HAVE AT IT.

But don't you dare pull that love it or leave it crap.

Whether you like it or not, this is MY country too.

[Name removed]

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[Must_B_Free]

2. We already have a National ID - the Social Security number

[Atman]

8. I haven't seen my actual SS card in decades.

Don't have a clue where it is. And if you think a paper card with typed numbers on it constitutes any sort of ID, well...

The SS is an identifier, to be sure, but easily faked, bought, sold, or even replaced with a corporate tax ID #, which happens to have the same number of digits and can be used on credit apps (that is how the ads offering to "erase your credit report" work...you keep your name, just have a "clean" number attached to it). I'm not here to discuss the SS card, though. That simply isn't the same, and cannot possibly be considered an ID card. We're taking your Official US Government Picture ID.

[Name removed]

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[manic expression]

11. Oh wait...

So being "think skinned" means not challenging your BS? How so?
That's how you roll? Give me a break.

[Name removed]

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[manic expression]

17. What?

"You people need to fucking get some thick skin and quit crying everytime I call you out on your shit."
Is that "just trying to add...opinion to this post"????? Is that "talking politics"???? Yeah, OK. Great job escalating the situation (like you wanted to) after posting some asinine comment.
So, let's see, what did you do to refute my post?... Call me names and say that I have a communist avatar. Wow. Next you'll say my opinions are (insert random curse word here) because my name is "manic expression".
"Go ahead and be an ass muncher though."
Touche, my friend, touche.

[indigobusiness]

5. What would you know about "fellow liberals"?

I'm betting you voted for Bush, and found your way here through the NRA or FR or some such.

[Name removed]

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[manic expression]

14. We're not going to let anyone

flaunt their perverted views...that's all a part of being "thick skinned", remember?
Tolerance of dissent doesn't mean that people can't challenge your (wrong) accusations.
All of your posts are insipid tantrums about other people, so don't accuse anyone else of "crying and making fools of themselves".
By the way, Your post content along with your use of profanity can pretty much sum up your intelligence and honesty.

[indigobusiness]

25. Just exposing you for the fraud you are.

One thing we don't tolerate is hypocrisy, or lies, or hate-mongering. There are many things intolerable to Liberals.

And blowhards that call people "pansies" are ususually "pansies" themselves.

I don't need assault rifles to feel like a man. I'd take you on, anyday.

[Atman]

10. Joe, you're as transparent as cellophane

I might as well expand this...

Let's provide you with an illustration why I and apparently a few other think you're full of shit. You know that guy that comes to your Super Bowl party and is really clueless about sports in general? He tries to fit in, but doesn't really know the lingo and what the game is all about? He makes a comment about that guy in the middle there, "the hiker." You know...you may ignore him, but you squint out of the corner of your eye and think "Sheesh, who does he think he's kidding?"

That is what is happening here. You're trying like hell to make us think you're one of us, but you don't even talk the talk. Your calling us "fellow liberals" is akin to calling the center "the hiker." Your words just sound contrived. AND you only have 9 or 10 posts. As do a whole buttload of other noobs who just happened to have signed on in the last few days. And virtually all of them want us to just get over the notion of vote fraud and accept that the guy we voted for sucked and had no personality.

I'm still not buying, Joe, and you're providing me absolutely no reason to think otherwise of your product.

And, I never said you came from the NRA. And, if you had a clue about what is going on, you would not have thought a paperclip was a communist avatar. That one is really a riot. Keep digging, Joe!

[Name removed]

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[Tsiyu]

40. The original post was about National ID cards, not guns

The fact that you steer the conversation to your shiny barrels says you don't get out much, you're paranoid, and you're real nervous about being on DU.

I can smell your sweat, joe.

Progressive people here are big on LESS government. We want government to enact laws - and enforce them - which protect the worker, the environment, the community. We don't need them protecting corporations that harm our people or our economy.

Less government means we both get to keep our shiny guns, big boy, but it also means you keep your creepy, perverted government out of my bedroom and out of my business.

You perhaps like the Big Brother concept. As long as you - hyuck!- get to keep that shiny gun.

Right.

[Name removed]

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[Atman]

15. Any chance we can get back on topic?

nt

[Name removed]

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[manic expression]

21. Sorry, won't work

Training with sidearms and organizing with friends and family will not stop a tyrannical government. There have already been armoured vehicles near peaceful demonstrations. "Good firearms" will do nothing against planes, tanks and the US National Guard.
By the way, what you said about dying for freedom...you pretty much summed up Che Gueverra's life.

[Name removed]

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[AuntPatsy]

31. I'm curious, how exactly does having a private arsenal make

you free in this day and age?

[jesusq]

36. Read Che's Guerrilla Warfare

Ernesto "Che" Guevara makes a convincing argument that tanks and planes are of no use against guerrilla soldiers who have the popular support of the people. I urge everyone to read his book "Guerrilla Warfare", written in 1960. It is still available on Amazon or you can order it at Barnes and Nobles and have it in a few days. It is an inspiring read and just as timely as it was in 1960.

When you read it, you will realize that your post does not summarize the life of Che Guevara. Che and Fidel lead 83 untrained men with antiquated rifles to the shores of rural Cuba and a few years later, they were marching in the streets of Havana.

Not many Democrats wish to be associated with Fidel Castro (or Che?), but these two men had a vision of radical political change and they made it happen against incredible odds. Read "Guerrilla Warfare." It will put fire in your belly whether you are a hell-raiser or a pacifist.

Bottom line; you do not have to pick up a gun to be like Che, but you have to be WILLING to die for what you believe in to substantially change the world. Taking up arms, radically ups the odds of changing the world, and of course, it radically ups the odds that you will die for what you believe in.

Love Jesus

[gulfcoastliberal]

19. Well, Kerry had a hard-on for this so-called "reform"

We'd have had the same thing from his admin, too, based on how he tried to make championing the idiotic suggestions of the 9/11 report a central theme.

The intelligence systems did not fail to predict 9/11. Idiot Bush & Rice ignored the info or worse.

[hollowdweller]

26. The intelligence systems did not fail to predict 9/11.

"The intelligence systems did not fail to predict 9/11. Idiot Bush & Rice ignored the info or worse"

This should have been a "talking point" repeated by every Democrat last election and even now. I think the facts support it.

[AuntPatsy]

20. Well, considering how easy it is lately for folks to steal idenity's

and the like, I am not so sure that I see having an ID card as that big of a problem. Frankly, what would bother me the most is having those implants that have been discussed become a reality. An ID card sounds supisciously close to having a driver's license complete with picture and all...

Forgive me if I am not quite up to par on how this is cause for worry, (sigh), they can easily look into people's private lives these days thanks to the Patriot Act 11. How much harm could an new goverment issued ID card cause?

[manic expression]

22. That's true

however, this could be just the tip of the iceberg. The implants that you talked about are a big possibility. I don't think people are worried about the ID cards, but maybe how they will be used and how this will be built upon.

[AuntPatsy]

29. Obviously, anything coming out of those on capital hill is cause

for worry these days, but in an attempt to allow for more hard hitting goverment interference being implimated in the near future such as micro chip implants etc being the norm, this ID could be nothing more than a smoke screen to take away from the real threat..

Do you get my meaning?

A simple analogy and not very asute one would be to serve someone who loves vanilla ice cream only chocolate instead. Thus causing the receiver of such a high degree of alarm when their desire is ignored as to cause a huge outcry..soon after, with the chocolate icecream now being removed, a huge dish of vanilla is offered...

What better way to deliver what would obviously have been very undesirable to the patron when one is in such dispair from having received the wrong flavor the first time that to even get a small scent of the flavorful vanilla now melting icecream, that they become transfixed enough while woofing it down that they are unaware that a small dab of chocolate has been hidden deep inside and quickly ingested before what should have been wariness has had time to set in...

Silly perhaps but I hope you get my intended meaning..

[Atman]

35. Expanding upon Wal Mart and the "bio chip"

This was part of an NPR story a couple of weeks ago, I believe. Wal Mart actually envisions tying the product ID chips in with "bio chips," already being used in some places; tiny chips with your personal data on them, embedded just beneath the skin of your arm. Their vision for a perfect future is allowing you to fill your shopping cart and walk out the door without ever going through a register...the bio chip will have your bank info on it, much like a Mobil "Speed Pass" or the toll booth EZ Pass. The computer tallies your merch, and debits the bank account on your embedded chip.

I am NOT making this up. Be afraid. Be very afraid. The corporations are taking over.

[hollowdweller]

23. This is an issue the Dems could make some headway on. The religious

right thinks stuff like that is the "mark of the beast " type stuff. The Dems should really come down hard on the side of the little guy and against big brother and they would gain a few.

[jesusq]

33. LIBERALS UNITE: REFUSE THE MARK OF THE BEAST!

<Sysop; please do not delete this message before reading it through. This will make sense if you hear me through to the end of this message. Jesus Q.>


In the world of the Christian Zionist movement(defined as Evangelical Christians who believe that we are currently in the end times; eg Armageddon, second-coming of Christ, rapture, etc. Do not discount this movement as there are an estimated 11-million TRUE-believers in the US) the national ID card has been prophesied as the precursor to the "mark of the beast;" the number 666 (which some C-Z believers suspect has something to do with some kind of computer language, such as hexadecimal code).

According to the Christian-Zionist doctrine, one seemingly innocuous thing leads to another until we unwittingly bow ourselves to Satan. C-Zs in the early 1980's thought the bar-code was the mark of the beast, while others thought that the ATM card was the mark. (Revelations spoke of a number on the hand and on the forehead, which was interpreted as an ATM card and PIN number by the faithful). All of these, the C-Zs insist was a precursor to lull us into accepting the REAL mark of the beast.

The most feared precursor of all was the NATIONAL ID CARD! But the TRUE, REAL and FINAL mark of the beast would not be possible without the help of the world's largest retailer.

Incredibly, according to leading Christian Zionist thinkers, WALMART is behind the mark of the beast. (I just knew WalMart and the anti-Christ were in cahoots, didn't you?) WALMART is developing the technology for a radio tag to put on its merchandise, to replace the antiquated bar-code, so that you can simply push your cart through a scanner, sort of like an airport metal detector, and it will ring up all your merchandise without even taking the worthless Chinese-made crap out of you cart. Convenient, right?

But the Christian Zionists envision that this technology, (a small chip that is cheap and infinitely re programmable) will eventually lead to little radio tags being implanted under our skin. It would be the ultimate form of positive ID. Sure, its a convenient way to provide identification before boarding a plane, cashing a check or buying a gun, but the minute the powers that be consider you a threat, every retail scanner in the world would trigger an alarm, thus, as Revelations says (according to very questionable theological interpretation) "without the mark of the beast, no person would be able to buy or sell anything."

SO, getting to my MAJOR point, when the National ID card is proposed, here is what you do; write your Congressman and Senators and tell them that you will not accept the mark of the beast and urge your elected representatives to vote NO on the mark of the beast plan.

Imagine the disappointment of an estimated 11-million Christian Zionists were planning on staying hush-hush on the National ID issue, in hopes that us godless secular humanists would go along with the government plan, unwittingly allowing the devil to snare our souls for eternity.

Do you think I am crazy? Then here is a challenge. Print this message and pack it away with your Christmas decorations when the holiday is over. Read it again before you decorate your tree in November or December of 2005. I guarantee that my thesis will seem less crazy with every passing year (if not each passing month.)


To find out when the rapture is most likely to happen according to the best Christan Zionist beleivers today, go to http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html

Love Jesus