Patriot II, Mandatory Nat I D Cards,Mandatory Job requirement passed House

[genius]

It is expected to pass Senate tomorrow. See full discussion under late-breaking news. They just announced it's passage on my news station. Prepare to pack up and get your families across the borders before they close. This may be coming. It also allows detention of American citizens without trial and ends the right to habeas corpus forever if the gov't claims someone is suspected of terrorism. Of course, you can be arrested for failing to have a job. Call Durbin first thing Wednesday and see if he can stop the Senate from turning America into 1939 Germany.


This is why we need to overturn the election. A lot of House Democrats defected to Hitler. We need to get the full list of who voted which way.

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. More Republicans opposed the bill than Democrats

:shrug:

[lojasmo]

28. and this surprises whom?

Spineless toads.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Or maybe someone is lying about what is in the bill

:shrug:

[lojasmo]

40. Nah, you misunderstand

I was wondering if the Democrats' failure to stand up to this crap surprises anybody. Certainly the events of the last few years have proven that we aren't willing to stand up to the rethugs.

[Us vs Them]

2. Wait, wait, wait. What's this about mandatory job requirement?

What about freelancers and the self employed? What about the jobless socialites and independently wealthy? What about those who are retired? Students? Housewives?

[gatorboy]

15. Seriously??? What the hell does that have to do with terrorism?

Or patritism for that matter. These people are unreal. And we have four more years of them.

[sangh0]

21. No, it's just more fear-mongering and hysteria

like the "they want to force our kids to take drugs"

[genius]

29. The House version passed contains Patriot II, much worse than Patriot I

They slipped all the bad stuff in while our Democratic leadership was snoozing. That's why Kucinich and McDermott opposed it.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. For once you and I agree...

There's plenty of things to get hysterical about with regards to the Bush Administration....Without having to make shit up.

I looked into this "mandatory job requirement" and as far as I can tell, it's a crock... been thoroughly shot through with holes. Which hasn't stopped some people from posting the same assertion, over and over.

As far as I can tell, the main source for most of this stuff is a UFO website.

Someone is trying to work people up, why I don't know.

[Liberty Belle]

27. I think that refers to foreigners, not citizens, but I'm not sure.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

3. Here's the toll-free number for the Capitol switchboard:

1-800-839-5276. Please everyone use it tomorrow.

I'll definitely be on the horn with Senator Durbin. I'd love to find out how my lame-duck Congressman "Bungalow" Bill Lipinski voted tonight. Anyone got a link for the vote?

[Nikepallas]

4. Link please. Does this mean my husband will have to get permission

to work the night shift?

Should we stock pile food, blankets etc?

[genius]

5. Go to Late Breaking News. There's a long discussion about it.

[genius]

39. Here's the text of that thread

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject Emergency Alert: National ID/Patriot Act 2 Legislation On Verge Of Passing
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1053179#1053179
1053179, Emergency Alert: National ID/Patriot Act 2 Legislation On Verge Of Passing
Posted by theearthisround on Wed Dec-08-04 02:50 AM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2004/07120...

At approximately 3:30pm today, Ron Paul's press secretary Jeff Deist called Alex Jones to warn him that the legislation that encompasses the national ID card and Patriot Act 2 provisions was on the verge of passing the House tonight.

Deist stated that the bill and what it means for America could be described in a word as 'tyranny'.

Deist's tone was the most frantic that Alex had ever known in his years of communication with Ron Paul's office. Alex made it clear how upset Desit was and that the situation reminded him of a 'war room atmosphere'. Deist and Ron Paul are desperate to mobilize the alternative media before the bill reaches the Senate tomorrow.

There is still a chance that we can shoot down the national ID card provisions before the bill is passed in full.

Deist went on to exclaim his disbelief at how the so-called conservative Bush administration had betrayed America and how Paul's colleagues on Capitol Hill were blindly going along with this and doing whatever Bush tells them to do without question.

For the past two days mainstream news articles have talked of a 'compromise' which was made with the few dissenting voices and that the bill would be steamrolled through.

However, those articles fail to mention the very worst aspects of the bill, instead pitching it as a mere reformation of intelligence communication and protocol.

PLEASE CALL YOUR LOCAL CONGRESSIONAL OFFICE RIGHT NOW AND VOICE YOUR OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL.

The bill is S 2845 or 'intelligence reform' and the sub-section with the national ID card provisions is 7212.

Tell your congressman to get the federal mandates for standardized drivers licenses out of the bill.

According to Deist, the bill would not only introduce the national ID card, but make it mandatory to have a job as well as setting up internal checkpoints in the USA.


Further

Action Alert from Ron Pauls Liberty Committee
http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/alert/?alertid=6739451...

"If you were a member of Congress, would you vote "yes" on a 3,000 page bill that you never had a chance to read? Most reasonable people wouldn't. Most reasonable people would want to read and study legislation before deciding how to vote; especially legislation as monumental as the intelligence reorganization legislation or the so-called 9/11 bill."

Further

http://www.libertythink.com / Has the Nov 20 Draft of this Bill + analysis

http://www.libertythink.com/2004/12/exclusive-full-text...

# TITLE I: Establishes superpowerful National Intelligence Director lording over integrated foreign & domestic apparatus -- Detailed anaylsis
# TITLE II: Role of FBI in domestic intelligence
# TITLE III: Attack on financial privacy, including repeal of one PATRIOT Act sunset - more
# TITLE IV Data-mining of air passengers; codifying mandatory ID for air passengers; biometrics for govt agents in aviation system; more advanced screening hardware for airports: "walk-through explosive detection portals, document scanners, shoe scanners, and backscatter x-ray scanners"
# TITLE V: Cosmetic immigration reforms
# TITLE VI: Expands definition of "terrorist" even further, allows holding of "terror suspects" without trial; more spying on international transactions
# TITLE VII: table of contents, part one, part two -- Misc. pork for foreign muslim psy-ops; Misc. homeland pork & bureaucracies; biometric borders; integratred biometric screening system with drivers' licenses as biometric national ID cards
# TITLE VIII: Homeland Security satellites, human research

[MrBenchley]

14. He's talking about the Intelligence Reform Act, S2845

Go to:

http://thomas.loc.gov

and use the search function--you'll find the full text...which has none of these apocalpytic provisions.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. No. Some people are just lying.

[EC]

6. So that's it

instead of calling it a draft, anyone unemployed, will just be automatically conscripted into the "service" of the country, to work off their debt to society.:think::freak::wow::grr:

[leftofthedial]

7. what is the objection to national ID cards?

I've never understood why they are so scary to some.

[OneBlueSky]

8. because when blended with Poindexter's TIA . .

(Total Information Access, or whatever it's called) the government (the BUSH government!) will have access to EVERYTHING about you . . . medical records, financial records, job history, every credit card purchase, EVERYTHING . . . as one example of where this will lead, medical records could (and will) be used to deny you health insurance . . . or life insurance . . . in sum, the concept of individual privacy will be gone forever . . . is that the kind of country you want to live in? . . .

[leftofthedial]

9. I don't think a national ID card is the problem

TIA does (or will do all those things) irrespective of a national ID card.

In fact, despite nominal prohibitions to it, your social security number already indexes pretty much all that info. We already have SSNs, drivers licenses, birth certificates, passports, marriage certificates, voter registration information, tax records (national and local), as well as all your private-sector financial, insurance and medical records online. Numerous computer databases and networks already "unify" that information. Blaming a national ID card for a loss of privacy is like blaming the Yankees pinstriped jerseys for Giambi's steroid use.

I remember ever since the 60's the Birchers, RW reactionaries and the militias and their ilk wailing and gnashing their teeth about how awful a "national identity card" would be. I think it could simplify many issues, from voter registration and immigration to buying beer. I've lived in countries with "national identity cards." My experience is that if the government is corrupt, people have restrictions on privacy, while if the government is not, people have privacy rights. It has nothing to do with the cards.

[leesa]

10. Well, why is it needed if the social security card does the same?

You will NOT have any privacy rights. There will be an embedded chip which will have all your information on the spot, and probably the ability to track you by satellite at all times. Sound like fun?

[leftofthedial]

13. the SSN is specifically prohibited from being used for that purpose

(though the prohibition is widely ignored)

Also the SSN has no photo, is not updated on any regular basis and is very easy to forge.

[el_gato]

17. people who have faith in the good will of those in power

are setting themselves up for the royal shaft

[leftofthedial]

31. I have no faith whatsoever in those in power

I believe that concerns about privacy (with respect to national ID cards) is far too little far too late. The privacy some are concerned with keeping has already been lost. Long gone. Vamoosed into the sunset. If you want to clse the corral gate now, fine, but the horse is already gone.

[420inTN]

38. Social Security IDs are not unique identifiers...

they are recycled. Additionally, they are only supposed to be used for social security. Of course, that got corrupted a long time ago. While I don't have a problem with a National ID card per se, I can see how it can be abused/misused. There should be proscribed limits on how your ID can be used, and on who can ask/use your info.

[mhr]

41. I Think You Are Right - I Am Tangentially Working For A Company

That collects data on 110 Million US Households.

This company sells this data to help retail companies select their store sites. They have 8.5 Terabytes of data in-house and claim to model to the street level. They can keep tabs on up to six individuals per household.

All the major retailers use this service.

It would not take much of a mandate for the database to be sold to the US Government under the guise of rooting out terrorists.

[MNBiker]

45. Papers...Sho me yor Pappers....Get it...

[MrBenchley]

11. Got a bill number?

Most of the people who voted no are the absolute dregs of the Republican party. I somehow doubt you're characterizing it properly.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. S 2845

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:s.02845:

[MrBenchley]

19. Which turns out to be the Intelligence Reform Act...

Someone is either sincerely misinformed or actively causing mischief....

By the way, anybody got an idea why somebody who voted "no" (Jim "don't let the Mexicans drive away!" Sensenbrenner) is listed as a House confreree on the House bill that was passed? Other than as a sign that the Republicans are still fighting this bill in a rearguard action?

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. He was a conferee becasue he is Chairman of the Judiciary Committee

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/

[MrBenchley]

26. And what a chairman!

Is it usually the case that people who fight bitterly against a bill get to be on the conference committe to get it put through...no matter what their position?

I have no idea...but I sort of doubt it.

[MrBenchley]

12. So it's the intelligence reform act, S2845 that doesn't do any such thing

Anyone can go to Thomas and download the text and see that it contains no such provisions...

"A lot of House Democrats defected to Hitler."
Pleeeeeeee-ase. Who ARE you trying to kid? If this bill really did any of the things you claim, that fuckwit Tom Tancredo would be leading the charge FOR it, not sulking among the handful that voted "no".

[sangh0]

22. Fear mongering and hysteria, against Dems

these are our friends and allies

[MrBenchley]

24. I guess we're supposed to think Tom Tancredo and Roscoe Bartlett

sincerely have the country's best interests at heart....

I mean, it couldn't be that there's any sort of deliberate misinformation being spread here, right?

[sangh0]

30. Please translate that into English

It says nothing relevant to what I said and coded messages don't work very well with me.

[MrBenchley]

32. Sure thing...

Tom Tancredo and Roscoe Bartlett are two of the scummiest right wing loonies in Congress--they're two who voted "No"...

Either somebody here is severely confused as to what this bill said and who is on what side....or somebody is, as you said, spreading "Fear mongering and hysteria, against Dems".

[UpsideDownFlag]

18. i didnt reealize that 'intelligence reform' and patriot II were the same..

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. They're not

Don't beleive everything that you see posted on DU.

[Freddie Stubbs]

36. The only Senator to vote against the Patriot act (Feingold) voted for this

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00216

Perhaps this bill doesn't contain the things that you are saying.:shrug:

[Liberty Belle]

25. Votes were posted here last night. Pelosi voted Yes.

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. So did Russ Feingold (The only Senator to vote against the Patriot Act)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00216

Perhaps this bill isn't as bad as some are saying that it is.

[KeireG]

42. Don't believe everything you see posted at DU?

Look, my congressman, Ron Paul may be a Republican, but he's a fine leader and is very concerned about our civil liberties. He is one of the first, if not the first, congressman to come out against this bill based on the patriot 2 provisions that were snuck in. Also, this bill is the accalimed "9-11" bill, and is being touted as such by the media. People may have voted because of the political brownies points assocating with voting for 9-11 based reform. Also, this was a 3,000 PAGE BILL. So, Feingold might regret this vote sometime in the near future. But it is unfair to imply that DU is an inadequate source of information because Feingold voted for this intelligence bill, and against the patriot act.

Edit: Comment on something that just broke on LBN...the mystery spy project in the bill condemned by members of the senate? LORD KNOWS WHAT THIS COULD BE? Just like the Patriot Act it will be a while before we realize the true fallacy of the congress's actions.

[foo_bar]

43. on first glance, it appears to repeal the bill of rights

(2) ARMED FORCES- Whoever, without lawful authority, makes a false statement, with intent to convey false or misleading information, about the death, injury, capture, or disappearance of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States during a war or armed conflict in which the United States is engaged, shall--

`(A) be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;

`(B) if serious bodily injury results, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 25 years, or both; and

`(C) if death results, be fined under this title or imprisoned for any number of years up to life, or both.
source

Mr. LIEBERMAN. Mr. President, I rise to support the amendment as modified. In fact, I know that the chairman and ranking member of the Armed Services Committee have to go to a hearing, so that may only shorten the praise that I want to offer to them.

Mr. LEVIN. The Senator can take his time.

Mr. LIEBERMAN. Take my time?

Mr. LEVIN. Yes.

source

[proudbluestater]

44. It was the Intelligence Reform bill that passed

Not the Patriot Act II.