Thousands of African Americans March in Support OF Discrimination

[Modem Butterfly]

Amazing.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/1204/11march.html

And so it went Saturday morning, as Bishop Eddie Long, senior pastor of New Birth Missionary Church, a predominantly black megachurch in Lithonia, led a march from the King Memorial to Turner Field calling for a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage.

SNIP

Long, who is the pastor of Atlanta's largest church, which claims 25,000 members, issued a statement in which he said the demonstration was not designed "to alienate or separate any group of people."

But some clearly didn't see it that way.

"We want to make it known to them we are not supportive of their platform," the Rev. Antonio Jones said of the stance on same-sex marriage.

Jones, of the Unity Fellowship Church in Atlanta, was among demonstrators who gathered at the King Center to denounce Long's march.

Un-fucking-believable.

[candy]

1. They believe what they believe,not much can be done about it. n/t

[Julien Sorel]

2. The Republicans are probably pissing all over themselves

with glee. It shames me to be a black man when I see my own people swallow bait like this.

[Modem Butterfly]

4. As an Atlantan, I am absolutely sickened by this

Before the march began, the group used the eternal flame at Dr. Martin Luther King's tomb to light a torch, which they carried with them during their demonstration.

The irony of this gesture wasn't lost on me, or on fate, it would seem:

But the damp morning air — and a light rain — extinguished the flame before they arrived. In the parking lot of the stadium, they tried to rekindle the torch with a lighter.

[blondeatlast]

29. If yu search deeply enough, somewhere lies the name "KKKarl Rove." nt

[xultar]

3. Unfortunately Fundies come in all races. I'd hope that the oppressed

would decline to oppress. Sadly this is not the case.
Black Fundies, just remember, the road to hell is paved with all sorts of intentions.

[Modem Butterfly]

7. Idiots come in all colors, sizes, genders and belief systems

Sometimes I think that our ability to hate each other is the one thing that is universally human.

[Kahuna]

36. The ability to hate, divide and conquer is the basis tor..

Christian biblical teachings. Since the beginning of time, it's always been the nature of man to oppress. Black folks aren't exempt from that human condition.

[Pepperbelly]

11. what is the saddest is that the African-American Churches were crucial

in getting the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts passed.

[xultar]

12. True, and I'm sure there were some Black Gays in those churches

who fought the initial fight for civil rights. I wonder what they are thinking now.

I know there are Gays in that church. I wonder what they are thinking.

[blondeatlast]

30. Perhaps their anger could be refocused toward the systematic

disenfranchisement of their own people?

It's hardly a new thing; where are the massive protests about their most fundamental freedom?

[Celeborn Skywalker]

44. Sadly, the oppressed often oppress more

Look at the way the Irish were treated by the Anglos in this country. One would think they would have had sympathy toward black people, but sadly, they were just as or even more racist against blacks than the general population.

[bunny planet]

49. So true, I read an article once about a new caste in India that was

actually considered lowlier than the untouchable caste. The untouchables did not treat those even more unfortunate than themselves with kindness, knowing firsthand what they were experiencing, but instead kicked, spit upon, and generally relished their new found position as a caste with someone else under them that they could abuse and humiliate. Human nature is very strange, when people have been oppressed, they often become the oppressor so easily. It is very sad.

[CatWoman]

5. i posted about this yesterday -- see link below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1061556

[cosmicdot]

6. "oh deep in my heart ... I do believe ...

We shall overcome some day"

woe that that wasn't sung today

sign me up for the "I marched for you, now you do this????" club

[UL_Approved]

8. They forget the message of Martin Luther King, Jr.

An injustice to anyone is an injustice to everyone. Acceptance of discrimination of any kind is the acceptance of all discrimination. To acknowledge that groups of people can be graded and separated in some fundamental way is done through discriminatory practices. To acknowledge that outlawing homosexuality is correct is to acknowledge that racial prejudice, segregation, and slavery are correct. All freedom is the same, and all injustice is the same.

The people of this protest really don't get what was happening during the civil rights era. I somehow doubt that King would be opposed to the homosexual community as these people are. After all, homosexuality is acknowledged and outlawed in the Bible. Slavery is permitted. And this is in a religious text. The same one King uses to justify equality. It's too bad that the lure of prejudice entices so many people.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Pathetic. How soon they forget. n/t

[Kahuna]

35. "They"?

:wtf:

[itzamirakul]

10. You can be sure that

the minister will receive a large federally-funded donation for his 'FAITH-BASED' pockets. Cause he probably won't use more than a few thousand to give some weak program.

[JunkYardDogg]

13. SO-Like did they wear white Robes and Pointed Hats

and Burn Queers on Crosses

[Catherine Vincent]

14. Sad to say there are some members of my family that feel that way.

[JunkYardDogg]

15. Well, you would think that Blakewell is in the KKK

What was the '60's Civil Rights and Anti War movements for??

[sonicx]

16. MLK's wife is for gay marriage. I'm take her judgement over theirs. nt

[tamtam]

17. Not surprising

This is not surprising and as a black woman may I say this sickens me. I guess we now can pass the most oppressed minority torch down to gay people. Honestly, ignorance is not partial to one particular race. These people look like jackasses marches AGAINST civil rights, unbelievable.

[Kathryn7]

18. The Rev. Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., will join

The Rev. Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., will join a prominent Atlanta pastor today in a march that opposes same-sex marriage as part of a larger, church-centered empowerment movement. The event has been criticized by gay-rights organizations, which say it betrays the legacy of the slain civil-rights leader.

[fortyfeetunder]

20. What a shame

She isn't even living her dad's legacy by doing this. What kind of Kool-aid has she been drinking?

[ohioan]

22. Wonder what her mother thinks?

Coretta Scott King came out against the gay marriage ban.

Bernice - listen to your mother.

[KenCarson]

19. bigotry has many flavors...is anyone shocked?

i'm not.

[Griffy]

21. Why cant we get 1000's on the steps of OHIO state capital??

I went to DC today... only a few dozen ppl.Ill go tomorow again.. better be more! stop all the talk and DO SOMETHING PPL

[KenCarson]

23. does becoming an oppressing group negate ever being oppressed? NT

....

[bklyncowgirl]

26. Look at history--Opressed people often become opressors

Back in slave times the worst overseers were often Irish, forced from their homeland by the British. Take a look at how the Jews are treating the Palestinians.

Sadly, here's no solidarity of the opressed. When you're down near the bottom of the ladder it's nice to know there's someone lower than you.

[Kahuna]

41. You just described human nature. This is the nature of man going..

back to the beginning of time. This is why the repukes are so successful. They understand this aspect of human nature. Dems are sitting around on threads like this one, expecting people to be enlightened saints.

[pschoeb]

24. Here's Operation Rebirth's(Gay Black Christian group) on Bishop Eddie Long

http://www.operationrebirth.com/archive/eddielong.html
All I can say after listening to this sermon is “WOW”. And as you continue to read, you will understand why that’s all I could say. I couldn’t even type this review after listening to it. I had to step away and take a break to get myself together. I wish there were a way for me to put the sermon itself on the net so that people could hear it for themselves and not just take my word for it. But, the truly sad thing is, even if I did, some people would argue that the pseudo-spiritual tripe that is “God is After Himself” is actually the infallible Word of God. In the fifty-five minutes of this sermon, it gets deep (Bishop Long’s claim to fame) and sticky. I caught myself with my mouth hanging open because I just couldn’t believe what he said. Bishop tries to come across as so anointed, spiritual, deep and wonderful, with this sermon,g I actually said, “sir, you are SO deep you’re actually drowning”.

Since the sermon, laden with cleverly clothed religious rhetoric and is presented in Bishop Long’s signature flair for dramatic hyper-spiritual mysticism, it would take A LOT of space to refute every ridiculous theory he suggests. In his effort to “not condemn anybody, but to lift everybody”, the Bishop does just the opposite. And he does it ALL in the Name of God. This lunacy will speak LOUDLY AND CLEARLY for itself. Here are just a few quotes. Hold on to your seats daaar-lings, it’s gonna be a BUMPY ride!

“Woman is the soul of man. She is his flesh consciousness. In essence, God made Eve to help Adam replenish the earth. Woman has the canal…everything else is an exit. God had to separate Adam and Eve where they connected so he could tell them to reconnect in covenant to duplicate Him.”

“In Christ, God puts his seed in us. Any other way is a spiritual abortion. Cloning, Homosexuality and Lesbianism are spiritual abortions.”

“Homosexuality is a manifestation of the fallen man.”

Quotes Daniel 11.29 – “Abomination means to ‘dis’-create or filth. Which is Anti-Christ. I’m sure the bishop (referring to the Episcopal Bishop) is anointed. But because of his stand, he has borne in an Antichrist doctrine by spirit into the house of God that defiles the temple. All because it takes away the covenant. There’s not a true image of God when he enters the temple.”

“God brings himself back to himself through covenant through blood. When the ordained process of God (marriage), when a virgin man has sex with a virgin woman, there is blood shed on his penis which represents covenant and the redemptive grace of God. That’s the reason why men, you are circumcised, so that every time you pull out your male organ and wants to go in the wrong direction, you can SEE that you are in covenant and anything that goes against the covenant is Anti-Christ. It creates a religious system that will not return God to God. Anything that will hinder that is Anti-Christ. It’s an abortion of the whole process of covenant and blood shedding.” .... more at site
http://www.operationrebirth.com/archive/eddielong.html

[blondeatlast]

31. More than enough for me. I call that hate speech. nt

[KnowerOfLogic]

25. Let 'em join the GOP and get screwed just like poor white people. nt

[Gin]

27. They are misguided.....marriage and children are overrated!

g

[JI7]

32. Black people still vote Democratic even if many disagree on the gay rights

issue. same with many latinos.

[hippiechick]

28. This is clearly an opportunity for education

on the separation of church and state.

From my experience with the African-American community (HippieKid is biracial), their opposition to this is primarily 'faith-based'.

Theirs is a deeply religious base, and if they interpret their Scripture as 'Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman', then anything else is unacceptable.

The opportunity here is for Dems and liberals to educate folks on the difference between civil union and 'church marriage', and draw parallels between the civil rights struggles that African Americans and their elders went through just to get us this far.

That said, I have also noted a strong undercurrent of homophobia in certain parts of the black community, and I'm not sure what/why that's about. I would be interested if anyone has any thoughts.


:hippie:

[blondeatlast]

33. When people start in on me that they are for "faith based initiatives" I

I ask them , "If the government is going to give money to churches, who decides who'll get what? And what churches are eligible, and what happens when the government meddles too much in how the money is used?"

That usually strikes them completely dumb.

[hippiechick]

39. Please allow me to clarify ...

I didn't mean 'faith based' in the GOP sense of the term, hence my quotation marks ... I meant that part of the African American community sees it thru the lens of their religious beliefs, and makes their moral judgement on it according to what they think their faith dictates, ie 'faith based'.

Sorry for using the the GOP term.


:hippie:

[blondeatlast]

43. I know; I was actually supporting your view!

No worries. :hi:

[LandOLincoln]

37. "...a strong undercurrent of homophobia"

which Rove & Co. have been exploiting to the hilt. I'd like to think MLK is spinning in his grave over this travesty, especially given the fact that his daughter has apparently broken with her mother over this issue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. I Think You Will Find There Is A Correlation Between Education And

Attitudes Towards Sexuality Among All Groups

Caucasians, Asians, African-Americans, Hispanics...

As education goes up the propensity to respect alternate forms of sexuality rises...


Also, here's a link to the discussion of the "down low"... The down low is a term for bisexual African-American men who identify themselves as straight..

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/915/915_downlow.asp

His book is stirring up controversy in the often-homophobic black community because most blacks see their men in very specific ways, images that have been cultivated and co-opted from hip-hop stars and rap videos. You’re allowed to be suave like Denzel, tough like 50 Cent, or streetwise like the young men you see in baggy jeans and oversize basketball jerseys, but black men aren’t allowed to have even the slightest feminine characteristics of the average metrosexual. When most black people think gay, they think In Living Color's Blaine and Antoine, or they think RuPaul—and those stereotypes, molded by television and, say, Wesley Snipes’s performance in To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar, have stuck. Many blacks find it hard to believe that men who look like LL Cool J or play professional basketball or lived next door could be homosexual or even bi.

“Gay is white,” King says. “It’s a culture I do not want to be part of. In Chicago you can’t be black and gay on the south side. You can’t live in your community. You can’t go to church. You can’t join a fraternity. You can be black, or you can move out.” Which is why the young man on trial in that episode of Law & Order was living DL, or “on the down low.” Taken from rap music, the phrase is for a guy who’s cheating on his wife or girlfriend; in this case, he’s sleeping with other

[LandOLincoln]

48. Insofar as education leads one to the conviction that sexual

orientation is no more a choice than is race, I agree completely.

I'd like to think that the more people come round to the knowledge that homosexuality is genetic and therefore as "natural" as skin or eye color, the more they will accept that gay rights--and specifically civil unions/gay marriage--are a legitimate civil rights issue.

But I ain't holdin' my breath, human nature being what it is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. Without Putting Too Fine A Point On It...

Not only does education color one's attitudes toward alternate forms of sexuality among same sex couples it also colors one's attitudes toward alternate forms of sexual practices among heterosexual couples....

[Kahuna]

40. You are correct, Madam. Where are our leaders? Why aren't they

educating people on the separation of church and state? Unless they come out from under the covers, we're doomed to the political wilderness for years to come.

[SemperEadem]

47. mainly because they believe that this country was founded on

xtian principles. I heard it last night coming from the mouth of this man at the beginning of a business seminar which I attended--that our country was founded by xtian men and our government was based upon xtian principles. I was dumbfounded.

[Kahuna]

34. Why do you feel the need to point out the race of these protestors?

Bigots come in all colors. You and other DUers are somehow suggesting that because these protestors are black, they should not be bigots. You all must think an awful lot of black folks to think that they are above the human emotion of bigotry. Don't you think it's kinda unrealistic to think that black folks should be incapable of bigotry???? Otherwise, I really don't your point.

[CatWoman]

45. you don't see the irony?

people who had to march and sacrifice so much in order to try to end discrimation suddenly come together in support of it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Perhaps They Are Misled....

It has little to do with race and much to do with fundamentalist religious beliefs....

[Tinoire]

51. I don't really see an irony

because it's not all Blacks, or even a sizable percentage, marching against same-sex marriage.

What I see is just an extension of the same problem that a lot of religious people are having over the push for same-sex marriage. Whether we like it or not, there are an awful lot of decent, fair-minded Black, White, Yellow, Red and Brown people who are against same-sex "marriage" but willing to accept civil unions.

This is an issue where I part with many people at DU. I support same-sex marraige but I believed (and said so during the primaries) that we made a grave mistake in pushing for "marriage" as opposed to civil unions so quickly because it's too "in your face" to many religious people and only a cosmetic label.

IMO, this wasn't the priority right now, not at a time where so many gays, so many people don't even have something as basic as health-care. Not at a time where there are wars raging and so much destruction being unleashed.

I think we need to get to health-care & civil unions first to at least take care of people, protect their assets and then, go after the luxury of a divisive cosmetic label. Sure it bothered me that in one month alone, I attended 2 ceremonies where I wished the people could have gotten "married" but I'll consider civil unions a HUGE step forward.

I don't expect my opinion to be popular but hell, it's like my a-hole right? On this issue, I think marriage is just a label creating a wedge issue where there shouldn't be one.

[SemperEadem]

50. considering...

the struggle to end centuries of discrimination and instituted racism in this country only happened 40 years ago. That is well within the lifetime of a majority of the congregation marching in acceptance of denying basic civil rights to yet another group of citizens in this country.

Those who marched-- themselves, their parents and grandparents-- are not so far historically removed from the era where they had to go around to the back to buy food at a restaurant, could not sit at a lunch counter and enjoy a meal without it being spit into, had separate drinking fountains, had seperate and unequal educational opportunities, had to endure unfair housing discrimination, had to endure unfair employment opportunities, had to endure unfair justice meted out at a trial.

They didn't gain their civil rights by just asking nicely. It wasn't 'given' to them by benevolent whites who woke up from the wrongs they were meting out and wanted to atone for blatently breaking the commandment of not 'loving thy brother and sister'. They obtained their rights by forcing the issue, taking their beatings and hosings, taking the dog bites, taking the bombings, taking the house burnings and keeping the injustice of their treatment front and center on the world stage til change started happening.

And after all of that which they went through, they now have absolutely no shame in turning around and becoming an oppressive contingent of disconnects dishing out their flavor of discrimination to gays and lesbians because "the bible says so". The bible also condones slavery, so why should they be allowed to forget their struggle for equality which they finally won to some extent--or to ignore the fucking telephone pole sticking out of their eye to concentrate on the splinter in a gay man's eye?

[FizzFuzz]

42. very very sad. n/t