The Latest Michael Moore letter - in case you haven't read it - Excellent

[DeepGreen]

12/13/04

Dear Friends,

It is no surprise that the Republicans are sore winners. They have spent the better part of the past month beating their chests, threatening to send to Siberia any Republican who doesn’t toe the line (poor Arlen Specter), and promising everything short of martial law if the Democrats don’t do what they are told.

What’s worse is to watch the pathetic sight of the DLC (the conservative, pro-corporate group of Democrats) apologizing for being Democrats and promising to “purge” the party of the likes of, well, all of US! Their comments are so hilarious and really not even worth recognizing but the media is paying so much attention to them, I thought it might be worth doing a little reality check.

The most people the DLC is able to get out to an event of theirs is about 200 at their annual dinner (where you have to pay thousands of dollars to get in).

Contrast this with the following:

* Total Members of Move On: More than 2,000,000
* Total Attendance at Vote for Change Concerts: An estimated 280,000
* Total Union Members in U.S.: Around 16,000,000
* Total Number of People Who Have Seen “Fahrenheit 9/11”: Over 50 million
* Total Number of You Reading This: Perhaps 10 million or more

The days of trying to move the Democratic Party to the right are over. We lost a very close election (a one-state difference) by running the #1 liberal in the Senate. Not bad. The country is shifting in our direction, not to the right. But the country was attacked and people were scared. They were manipulated with fear. And America has never thrown a sitting president out during wartime. That’s the facts. Oh, and our candidate could have run a better campaign (but we’ll have that discussion another day).

In the meantime, while we reflect on what went wrong, I would like to pass on to you an essay that a friend who works with abuse victims sent to me. It was written by a woman who has spent years working as an advocate for victims of domestic abuse and she sees many parallels between her work and the reaction of many Democrats to last month’s election. Her name is Mel Giles and here is what she had to say…


Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the ‘new’ language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed, discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear the cacophony of voices, crying out, "Why did they beat me?"

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if they have heard this before.

They will tell you: Every single day.

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can't stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can't seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

Listen to George Bush say that the will of God excuses his behavior. Listen, as he refuses to take responsibility, or express remorse, or even once, admit a mistake. Watch him strut, and tell us that he will only work with those who agree with him, and that each of us is only allowed one question (soon, it will be none at all; abusers hit hard when questioned; the press corps can tell you that). See him surround himself with only those who pledge oaths of allegiance. Hear him tell us that if we will only listen and do as he says and agree with his every utterance, all will go well for us (it won't; we will never be worthy).

And watch the Democratic Party leadership walk on eggshells, try to meet him, please him, wash the windows better, get out that spot, distance themselves from gays and civil rights. See the Democrats cry for the attention and affection and approval of the President and his followers. Watch us squirm. Watch us descend into a world of crazy-making, where logic does not work and the other side tells us we are nuts when we rely on facts. A world where, worst of all, we begin to believe we are crazy.

How to break free? Again, the answer is quite simple.

First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone around you that is being victimized. You don't do this by responding to their demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don't do this by going catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head and submitting to the blows, figuring its over faster and hurts less if you don't resist and fight back.

Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 57 million of them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what you've learned, and that you aren't going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with 57 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it's better than the abuse.

We have a mandate to be as radical and liberal and steadfast as we need to be. The progressive beliefs and social justice we stand for, our core, must not be altered. We are 57 million strong. We are building from the bottom up. We are meeting, on the net, in church basements, at work, in small groups, and right now, we are crying, because we are trying to break free and we don't know how.

Any battered woman in America, any oppressed person around the globe who has defied her oppressor will tell you this: There is nothing wrong with you. You are in good company. You are safe. You are not alone. You are strong. You must change only one thing: Stop responding to the abuser.

Don't let him dictate the terms or frame the debate (he'll win, not because he's right, but because force works). Sure, we can build a better grassroots campaign, cultivate and raise up better leaders, reform the election system to make it fail-proof, stick to our message, learn from the strategy of the other side. But we absolutely must dispense with the notion that we are weak, godless, cowardly, disorganized, crazy, too liberal, naive, amoral, "loose,” irrelevant, outmoded, stupid and soon to be extinct. We have the mandate of the world to back us, and the legacy of oppressed people throughout history.

Even if you do everything right, they'll hit you anyway. Look at the poor souls who voted for this nonsense. They are working for six dollars an hour if they are working at all, their children are dying overseas and suffering from lack of health care and a depleted environment and a shoddy education.

And they don't even know they are being hit.


How true. And that is our challenge over the next couple of years; to hold out our hand to those being hit the hardest and help them leave behind a party that only seeks to keep beating them, their children, and the kid next door who’s on his way to Iraq.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
[e-mail]

P.S. There are only a few hours left if you want to vote for “Fahrenheit 9/11” in the People’s Choice Awards (online voting is cut off at 3pm Eastern Time today). Go to http://www.pcavote.com/voting/film/f01.shtml to vote.

[GetTheRightVote]

1. Thank you Deep Green, I had not read it yet but very goo

I made a simple statement on C-Span concerning taxes and our children put to war but this letter states it with great sensiblity and understanding, I never wanted to use the word victim out load but I have felt this way and that is why I had to stand up and have my say at the hearing so I would no longer feel like a victim. That is why I march and join with my fellow lefters, to remind myself that I am not alone and that there are many other Americans who believe as I do, that we deserve better treatment then that which we have been given so far from this country of ours. Thank you for posting this thread, it has hit home for me.

[DeepGreen]

7. Your Welcome

:)

[Pepperbelly]

2. Excellent letter

Thought provoking and spot-on.

[livvy]

3. Excellent Letter!

I believe there is only one way to stop "the abuse". I agree with the letter. This misadministration cannot be combatted in the usual, rational ways. They are too good at intimidation and spin. We have the documentation, the evidence, the proof. Why should we adjust to the wills of the few, just because they happen to be the wealthiest?

My favorite parts of the letter are the following:

"The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence."

>snip
"First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone around you that is being victimized. You don't do this by responding to their demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don't do this by going catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head and submitting to the blows, figuring its over faster and hurts less if you don't resist and fight back.

Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 57 million of them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what you've learned, and that you aren't going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with 57 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it's better than the abuse."

We are the majority. Speak and step up and out. Help others to wake up. There are incredible powers in numbers, but many are afraid to be the first in line. I think more will follow if they know they're not alone.

[Florida_Geek]

4. DLC should be call Repugs

"The most people the DLC is able to get out to an event of theirs is about 200 at their annual dinner (where you have to pay thousands of dollars to get in)"

Why do they pretend to represent the Democratic Party????

Just a dumb question.

[Sperk]

5. great minds think alike....I've been equating the Repugs to

an abusive spouse for a long time now. That is the very reason why they will go down. They NEVER have enough. You cannot do enough to please them. They will get more and more aggressive and abusive until no one will be able to deny how sick they are.

It makes no sense to try and placate these people, they will never be satisfied with the amount of power they have, they will always want more.

[DeepModem Mom]

6. Say it again -- excellent!

[IndyOp]

8. If MM can admit the 'abuse' why can't he admit this election was STOLEN?!?

The biggest violation we have experienced so far is the theft of 100,000's of votes in multiple states -- I will be emailing him the suggestion that he shakes his denial and comes to term with this rape.

:grr:

[DenverDem]

9. Exactly, why the capitulation?

It sure makes me go, "hmmmm".

The country is not "shifting" to the correct side of the political spectrum, WE ARE THERE in a LARGE MAJORITY.

The "election" was the biggest FRAUD in history and until we confront that fact head on we will continue to be abu graihbed.

[AzDar]

10. My thoughts EXACTLY......Is he afraid to admit the election was stolen?

Or is he not aware?.. (highly implausible, imho). I always thought M.M.
would be leading the charge, not serving as grief counselor!

[Undercover Owl]

65. M.M. is just one voice.

He could try to be "leading the charge" if he wanted to but I think he's done a lot already! I like Michael Moore a lot, but there has to be more people, than just him, taking action.

For one thing, his credibility IS kind of fuzzy among a lot of people....many (majority of?) people take him with a grain of salt. Not a put-down of M.M. I'm just noting what other people think.

We need a mass of people on the stolen-election!

[Proud_Lefty]

14. I suspect he knows something

that will give the election back to John Kerry, but likes Kerry and Edwards, speaking out will ruined that chance. He's got to be privy to the master plan or he wouldn't be quiet. Just a hunch.

[IndyOp]

60. I am loosing faith in the MM as holder of the BIG K/E secrets...

Can't say why, just loosing faith...

:(

[Mr_Scarecrow]

26. Huh?

Didn't you all see F-9/11?
Like, the first 20 minutes was about the stolen (2000) election and how black voters were disenfranchised.
How can anyone possibly say he hasn't done enough for vote reform? He's done more than most. You can't expect him to take up every cause everywhere.

[tomreedtoon]

72. Because it DOESN'T MATTER that the election was stolen!

Just like it doesn't matter that your abusive husband used brass knuckles instead of his bare fist when he hit you.

Focus on the essential. He hit you. Stop getting hit. Stop complaining about unfair treatment - of COURSE the Republicans are unfair, where have you been? Don't just whine, take actions to stop the creep (the Committee to Re-Elect the President) from beating on you.

[KurtNYC]

11. Is the Stockholm Syndrome also part of the equation ?

Look at the poor souls who voted for this nonsense. They are working for six dollars an hour if they are working at all, their children are dying overseas and suffering from lack of health care and a depleted environment and a shoddy education.

This, I would argue in the case of some people, is a version of the Stockholm Syndrome. In answering the question 'why would anyone vote for Bush?' I have brought up the Stockhom Syndrome many times. Here are the classic conditions believed to induce this psychological survival mechanism:

1. Perceived threat to survival and the belief that one's captor is willing to act on that threat
2. The captive's perception of small kindnesses from the captor within a context of terror
3. Isolation from perspectives other than those of the captor
4. Perceived inability to escape.

The argument I usually get in return is that while conditions 2 (tax cuts), 3 (complicit mainstream media) and to some degree 4 are met, it is condition #1 that really seems to be the key and how is that met? The Patriot Act gives the President the power to declare any American an enemy of the State and to hold them indefinitelty without notice, without lawyer and without trial at a location of his choosing. Add to that the Abu Ghraib photos that we have all seen and I think the threat is fairly real in most people's minds.

As for condition 4, wingnuts pounding the table and screaming about their alleged 'mandate' sounds more like 'you can't escape' all the time.

[Undercover Owl]

67. OMG! yes!!

People who voted for Bush have "Stockholm Syndrome"!

Any scrap of kindness from the captor-abuser is received so gratefully! (thank you for smiling at me, even though I probably deserve to keep on getting kicked in the gut) Read = (Bush is so good to me because of the middle class tax cuts)

[passy]

75. That's really scary !

Do you think the patriot act would be used against groups or organizations that try to push for a reversal of the results or want to disrupt the inauguration in January.
If the government thinks that the evidence is mounting against them will they really stage some kind of attack as an excuse to introduce martial-law?
Are they that power-hungry and power-addicts that they would seriously consider such a move?
Maybe it's just wild conspiracy theories on my behalf.
But does anyone think that it could be possible?

[Name removed]

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[The Flaming Red Head]

13. MM is an enabler. Ballot abuse is going on right in front of his face.

And he chooses to remain silent.

[ragin_acadian]

15. Is there anything MM can do right? MM bashing is getting too frequent.

[Yuugal]

17. Agreed

I don't see the right wing bashing Limpbag or O'Lielly. Why on earth is the DNC/DLC trying to undermine the best minds we have?

[Name removed]

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[demo dutch]

27. Bash Bash Bash!! This is the problem with democrats! if things

don't go off without a hitch, we bash and criticize our leaders, splintering the party. In my view it is exactly the reason why Repubs beat us every time Because even if they disagree in the end, they rally around their leaders keeping their party as a united front.

[okieinpain]

32. so true.

[GOPBasher]

16. Awesome!

[InvisibleTouch]

To this I would add:

Never, ever, ever apologize for who you are.

[kentuck]

18. The effort to make Mike Moore a "pariah" has already begun...

The guest on C-SPAN this morning, a self-described liberal, had some very unkingd and derogatory words to say about Michael Moore. And I'm sure he won't be the last. Michael Moore was to blame for the Democrats losing the election, hadn't you heard?

[InvisibleTouch]

19. And it's disgusting how we eat our own...

...when the going gets rough. It's got to stop. If Dubya hadn't cheated and Kerry's victory had been acknowledged, MM would be hailed as a hero right now. I've got news: he is a hero. To stand up and speak out for the truth when all the world seems against you, takes a courage that most people can't even fathom.

[Name removed]

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[StephanieMarie]

25. Bev of BBV

tried to re-count Florida, but missed the deadline in making her request. IIRC

[EFerrari]

49. Sorry, Invisible. Have to disagree. Moore is promulgating

unreality. Ignoring all the thousands of disenfranchised voters.

We get enough propaganda straight up from the MSM. We don't need it from "our own".

Maybe if I were as priviliged as Moore, I'd be as "gracious". I'm not. And still thinking on the people turned away from their lawful voting places all over this country.

And this doesn't even speak to the machine fraud that we all know happened. (Slapping forehead)

[InvisibleTouch]

51. I don't like that he's saying "we lost" either...

...and that he's not coming right out to say we were robbed. At this point, we don't know why he's not saying that. Nor is anyone else in a prominent position, you'll notice - and surely they know it as well as we do. There's some reason why they're not saying it, and I'd like to think there's more to it than just "not wanting to look like a conspiracy nut." MM and others have already taken huge risks with their careers in order to speak up for what's right - so why back away now, unless there's more to the story? Anyway, I don't like it either, but that doesn't negate what his contribution has been thus far. And if you can ignore that part of the article, the rest is excellent.

[jsw_81]

52. "At this point, we don't know why he's not saying that."

Maybe because we did lose. Ever consider that little possibility? I know it's much easier to deny reality and blame everything on "conspiracies" and "voter fraud," but there comes a point when you have to face reality and accept the fact that we lost this election. All of this pathetic whining and denial (e.g. "Ohio will flip to Kerry any day now.") is only making the situation worse.

[EFerrari]

59. What whining? Asking for a fair and free election used to be

known as an American tradition.

You can't make "things worse" by seeking the truth. You can make liars uncomfortable - and Catholics like me who feel guilty over stuff we haven't even done yet, lol - but seeking the truth of this election is akin to knowing who your parents are, a basic thing we rely on in this country.

"Reality" is that there was fraud. We've seen the evidence, some of it anyway.

Did Kerry win? Who knows? Do we need to know what happened? Of course we do. Sorry, I don't drink KoolAid.

[Laelth]

62. Making the situation worse HOW, exactly?

What could be worse than the situation we're in? We could have lost all the Senate races instead of only most of them? What, exactly, are you saying? I'm suspicious of any argument that says our expressed outrage over the theft of the 2004 election is "making things worse."

How?

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--toned down.

[Undercover Owl]

69. thank you!

stand up, people!

[passy]

76. I think if he even uttered the F word ...

... he would be crucified by the Rove media machine. And that's the last thing anyone wants right now. I was thinking that Michael Moore was being too quiet but now I realize that if he was to say something he would be picked on and made a joke of and the whole issue would become a laughing matter.
I think somebody who is less of a target should say something, how about Howard Dean (or maybe he wants to be on the ballot in 2008) or some well respected artist (Springsteen, Dylan etc..).
I don't know, but MM doesn't have the habit of saying something he can't back up with checkable facts and right now there ain't much of them about, unless he gets those exit poll numbers.

[demo dutch]

28. That's rediculous!

[RevCheesehead]

30. That's called triangulation...

...and it perpetuates the victim/abuser/rescuer role by diverting to a new "abuser."

(Thank God those years of therapy are beginning to pay off!)

[graywarrior]

21. We're like a herd of cats, fercrissakes

Too independent, too intelligent to follow anyone unlike the republican sheep who are in a trance of fear on a daily basis. It's a shame we have to keep bashing Michael Moore, John Kerry and whoever else "hurt our feelings" or forgot to open the door so we could take a cat piss. THIS is why we don't win elections, crybaby bullshit.

Great letter, recognizable symptoms. I always felt that Bush was an abuser. On top of that, he's an alcoholic so he's GIFTED in inflicting abuse.

[Name removed]

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[demo dutch]

29. I so agree with you! Bashing does nothing exept splintering the party and

effort

[StephanieMarie]

23. Here's my letter to MM regarding his capitulation

I wish you and every other self-proclaimed Democrat, Progressive, or Liberal would STOP saying, printing, writing, that Bush won the election. He did not win. The Republican party stole the election for him. The exit polls were right. Re-counts will eventually prove that Bush’s vote was systematically padded in all 50 states, and that Ohio was stolen to give him the electoral vote. It may not come in time to change who is inaugurated (as in 2000 when Gore won), but the truth will come out, and then you’ll look like an idiot for going on and on about how Bush “won” the 2004 election. Kerry won. Repeat that to yourself as many times and it takes to finally make it stick.

[Name removed]

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[ElectroPrincess]

33. There you go again .....

Name Calling and putting the term that many of us REFUSE to let the right wing define = "Liberal" in the worst possible light.

Oh and THIS little excerpt ...

"All you psychotic anti-Clinton haters in the D.U."

That will win you a lot of friends around here!

- E.P. Proud LIBERAL within the Anti-DLC Intimidation Based Community known as the Democratic Underground

[ConservativeDemocrat]

39. Name calling?

I'm not putting the term "liberal" in the "worst possible light". I like liberals - so long as they are liberal Democrats.

What I don't like is liberal "greens", who pretend to be Democrats on the D.U., but spend their days bashing Democratic politicians and institutions. And, quite frankly, I don't care to be friends of those kind of people. They do more damage to the party than the most rabid freeper ever will.

(Oh, and dedicating your life to destroying what you profess to love isn't exactly a sign of proper mental balance.)

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

p.s.: I'm also intellectually consistent: I've called upon Al From, current chair of the DLC, to step down because he was bashing Michael Moore. We need more people in this party, not fewer.

p.p.s: Seriously? You're intimidated by the DLC? Afraid some jack-booted DLC thug is going to... (horrors!) stuff a pamphlet under your nose saying we need to get people who voted for Bush to start voting for us? And that maybe, saying Fuck the South isn't the best way to do that?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[ElectroPrincess]

56. Wow! You can't help yourself, can you?

You have to be the DOMINANT entity ... you MUST have the last word. No, you are NOT the only DLCer on DU.

No, you did disparage me in another thread and you had a compadre cheer leading your insults.

In another thread you called me "insane" and now you refer to me as "Ma'am" - that sounds a little bit schizophrenic.

Here's a suggestion: Let's start from the beginning? I will do my best to respect your centrists positions IF you will hesitate to refer to me as a leftist nut case?

I want to work with you. I am not a leftist but you must show a little finesse and patience with our profound disappointments.

Deal?

On Edit: A more polite narrative.

[Mandate My Ass]

44. LOL, this poster is claiming that there is too much animosity in GD

Oh the irony! :o

[debsianben]

35. Republican Lie

The "#1 Liberal" thing was a silly, transperant Republican lie, and I'm shocked to see MM accepting it. As I recall, the magazine that orginally tagged him as having "the most liberal voting record" only based it on a study in one year (2003), in which he was campaigning for President and as such missed a hell of a lot of votes, so they only based it on an absurdly tiny number of categories. Anyway, as I recall in the debates, Kerry angrily denied being a "liberal" at all, much less "the number one liberal in the Senate." He likes to point out, e.g., his early support for "welfare reform."

[JohnOneillsMemory]

40. "Being a moderate, maybe we should throw SOME Jews in the oven..."

"Because I don't trust the radical fringe who want to either
1) throw all the Jews in the oven (right wing)
OR
2) throw none of the Jews in the oven." (left wing)

"Yes, all things in moderation. So the right answer is in the middle.
See? Politics is all about...compromise.
-Compromising your values." (DLC/DNC)

[debsianben]

46. Nice Post

This is exactly how Kerry apologists talk. You can be a lot more "moderate" than Bush & co. and still be a snivelling dog of corporate America and a supporter of murderous imperialism in Iraq. Its like the "he voted for the IWR as a tool of diplomacy" line, as if a resolution threatening to invade a sovereign nation that has never attacked or threatened to attack us was a tool of "diplomacy," rather than a tool of international terrorism. Or maybe he wanted the same "power" if he were elected, as if there was a legitimate reason for him to want the power to invade sovereign nations that have never attacked us without a Congressional declaration of war.

[Festivito]

34. The problem is the NEWS MEDIA not the platform positions.

What good is a perfect set of left-wing liberal ideas if no one believes we have the ideas we have?

[Danger Duck]

36. I am not a victim

I like Moore, I respect Moore, and I wish there were more like him. but this letter, it turns my stomach. Now we're victim's. We are being "abused" by the mean Republicans, who are our abusive mates. And we should leave?

Is this party still in love with the idea of being a victim? We lost. We lost a battle in a war that we have been winning for nearly a century. In this war, we established Unions, social security, a forty hour work week, National Parks,Endowments for the Arts, A United Nations, and countless other achievements. We've pushed the Republicans and Conservative movement to the brink of extinction. We ousted one of their presidents, we beat an incumbent who had just completed one of the most popular military campaigns in History. And now, because we lose an elections against this insipid, angry rabble we're the victims?

Sorry Charlie, I'm not a victim. I'm a soldier, and I'm not done fighting. This was a setback, and a mistake, We learn from it, polish our swords, clean our wounds, get back into the battlefield of ideas, and take back what is ours. Let them be the victims.

Moore is right. We were almost there. But we blew it. Hey, all of you who want to believe that this election was stolen, my hat's off to you. I doubt you could convince me, but feel free to try. my take is we made some mistakes, and now we have to learn from them.

Or, we can sit down, cry, and feel victimized while we scream about stolen votes and what not.

I am not a victim. Never have been, never will be.

Instead, I will insist and fight for a candidate that stands behind my beliefs, our beliefs. I will support liberal values, otherwise known as basic human rights, such as liberty, justice, and equality.

I will not apologize for my beliefs, nor support anyone that does. I will not allow our party t mask who we are in the attempt to capture swing voters. Swing voters want to vote for a person, not a belief. They will vote for whom they like, and they like candidates that they understand. They voted for Clinton, and now they're voting for Bush.

I will not ridicule those who voted for Bush as being morons, nor will I ridicule Christians, no matter how far to the right they are. I am confident enough in my beliefs to know that I can convince and debate anybody on the battlefields of ideas, not in the politics of personal destruction.

I will fight for what I believe, and I will only support those that do as well.

I will not articulate policy positions by using "but" or "if", i.e., I believe a woman has the right to choose, but I believe abortion is wrong.

I will not be a victim, a wimp, a sniveler, a cry-baby, or a Soulless Republican shell.

I will be a Democrat, and I will win.

[ElectroPrincess]

37. You missed the point ...

MM is encouraging US to do exactly THAT: Breaking out of the victim mode and getting in the republican's faces.

You're spinning his letter 180 degrees.

What you said above WAS HIS POINT.

With regard to the LIBERAL comments, I interpreted it as tongue-in-cheek. After all, if the MSM says it, it must be true. Right? LOL

[Danger Duck]

38. I got the point

The majority of his piece was about how we are the victims, and should fight back. I'm simply saying that a victim mentality is pathetic, and I want nothing to do with it.

[rinsd]

42. It wasn't MM's writing.....

This "democrats as abused women" meme started a couple fo weeks ago when that author published it.

Most DUers rejected it on its face as patronizing crap, but slap the MM seal of approval and watch the crowd roar.

It's fucking stupid and plays right into the Dems are touchy feely wimps. Instead of arguing about ideas, the party is put on the proverbial couch.

[Undercover Owl]

66. oh, lighten up. It's just one analogy of many possible ones.

This is why I like Michael Moore: he comes up with wild analogies that are spot-on yet are easily dismissible. If you don't like that analogy, I guarantee he can dream up a different one that's just as good.

None of us as Democrats literally identifies with battered women, (unless your spouse beat you up for voting Kerry!) It is just an analogy. I don't see it as "patronizing crap".

I loathe the word poignant, but it's...poignant to think of our dilemma in another way.

We have plenty of real, concrete ideas, and many opportunities to bring them out. You'll get your chance, don't worry.

[sorechasm]

71. Let’s take their women and their children

Regardless of who the abused are in this analogy
(not just Democrats), the abusers are as clear as a baseball bat. There are millions of submissive, obedient spouses of these abusers whose instincts about the bloodbath in Iraq are constantly suppressed by their masters.

I suspect they aren’t getting much ‘satisfaction’ either.

To judge from O’Reilly’s falafel,
Or on hearing of Rush’s closet stack,
One secret’s hardly concealed:
They perform poorly in the sack.

[alaintex]

73. Clear as a baseball bat?

Do you have a crystal bat?

:)

[rinsd]

79. Psssttt...Michale Moore didn't come up with the analogy in the first place

It was another writer.

[Undercover Owl]

68. Wow! You are SO STRONG & POTENT

I am brought to my knees

[beetle2]

74. Mikey should just SHUT UP!!!

He has just set the movement back years with the pathetic whining about being a victim.
We will never become the majority by reacting to Shrub. To become a majority, we must bring more people in with our ideas, our vision of the future.
How are you going to get people to join a movement of crying little loser victims. We must get away from the reaction movement to become an active movement.
We will never win by just being the alternative. We must make the repugs the alternative. When we make an argument, argue for our side, not just against their side.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

41. YES. PSYCHOLOGY IS THE ANSWER. GET...OVERT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dem/Centrists haven't gotten that they DO feed the 'weak on defense' meme by NOT EVEN DEFENDING THEMSELVES BY SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER AT THE REPUBS!

DON'T GET OVER IT>>> GET OVERT!!

Strong personalities making strong statements tell the dazed, confused, propaganda-diseased brains in America WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON:

BLOODY MURDER FOR PROFIT.

Why do you think that moral-car-wreck Ann Coulter has a career?
She may be gross but people look at car-wrecks because they are what daily life isn't
-EXCITING, REAL, SCARY
-or Amusing = Noticed and Heard = Committed = Trustworthy = Leader

This is how fascism works:
(and George Lakoff makes it sound complicated)
PRE-EMPTIVE 'EMOTIONAL FRAMING'
OR
Exciting people into being brutal WINNERS by pissing on other people.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves."
-- Edward R. Murrow

Here is how Hitler described it (accurately)in 'Mein Kampf'---

""The masses of the people prefer the ruler to the suppliant and are filled with a stronger sense of mental security by a teaching that brooks no rival than by a teaching which offers them a liberal choice. They have very little idea of how to make such a choice and thus are prone to feel abandoned. Whereas they feel very little shame at being terrorized intellectually and are scarcely conscious of the fact that their freedom as human beings is impudently abused.

...PHYSICAL INTIMIDATION has its significance for the mass as well as the individual...For the successes which are thus obtained are taken by the adherents as a triumphant symbol of the righteousness of their own cause; while the beaten opponent very often loses faith in the effectiveness of any further resistance."

[mojavekid]

43. Good Letter, I'll take a little MM medicine with some Bartcop and....

There are as many opinions on "Why we lost/Where to go from here" question as there are participants in the political process, it is how people deal with an emotional loss.

I hear and read about the "but there was voter fraud, the message wasn't clear, the candidate was weak", etc. and likely, there is truth in each opinion, it simply reflects the amazing diversity of the Democratic party and all who share it's values.

I may not feel like a victim, though I believe that the drawing of that comparison is warranted, it speaks to some, fine. All voices must be heard.

Good on you Michael, and Bart, and every one on DU....keep it up.

[BrklynLiberal]

45. ElectroPrincess and JohnOneillsMemory Have it Right...

Let's stop questioning ourselves, and what did we do wrong.
As was quoted on another thread yesterday:

"As cognitive psychologist George Lakoff told me: "Democrats moving to the middle is a double disaster that alienates the party's progressive base while simultaneously sending a message to swing voters that the other side is where the good ideas are." It unconsciously locks in the notion that the other side's positions are worth moving toward, while your side's positions are the ones to move away from. Plus every time you move to the center, the right just moves further to the right."

From this article:

THE NEXT DNC CHAIR: WHY YOU SHOULD CARE

Arianna Huffington, AlterNet

[A Simple Game]

77. Let's stop questioning ourselves, and what did we do wrong.

Exactly, the people at DU didn't do anything wrong! We are aware of and know the abuses that are happening.

I don't think MM is talking about us, he is talking about the millions of voters that actually voted for *.

Could Kerry have run a better campaign?
Was there voter fraud and abuse?
Was the MSM complicit?
Was there...?
Yes to all.

With what history will call the worst president in US history, the fact remains, this election was close enough for fraud and abuse to make a difference in what should have been a blowout. We at DU are the people who see the slight of hand and misdirection when the magician makes everyone else think the mountain disappeared.

Is MM using a good analogy? I think so, and by the sounds of denial in some posts here, it may not be an analogy but a fact.

[freelight]

47. Great letter.

This is just the sort of thing he should be writing right now. He's been quiet lately because there hasn't been much to say. Of course he knows the election was stolen, and so does anyone who pays attention to him. Does he have to tell you what color the sky is? Michael Moore ranting about election fraud would just make him look even more looney to the opposition and accomplish nothing - the time for preaching to the choir has passed and he knows that. Kerry knows that too, which is why he's concentrating on getting the votes properly counted instead of ranting about a stolen election and ruining his credibility.

[EFerrari]

48. my letter to MM

My husband & I worked really hard to kick off MoveOn's book here in SF. I work on line and was so thrilled and grateful to help with online activism.

My 75 year old mom went to F911 and registered exiting voters in San Jose.

So, imagine our surprise when you all went into a bunker when the vote fraud started surfacing.

You know, I can take winning or losing, like Jackson said. Widespread fraud is not a go with me.

So, as much as I and my network admire you and as much as we also admire MoveOn, you guys have some 'splaining to do if you want to regain our trust. (This last said with the best of intentions, but must be said.)

We're not going to let go of this, Mike. That's it and that's all. There is no next time, no Lucy with the football, if this isn't resolved.

So sorry, and wishing you and yours the best,
(contact info)

[muchacho]

54. thank you Moore

It's nice to read an unabashed Liberal speak proudly and not lurk in the shadows in shame.

[wabranty]

55. We are a political party; not an encounter group

This abuse-theory is silliest analysis yet on the 2004 campaign. W was declared the winner because:

1) Rigged voting machines in Florida and Ohio
2) Kerry's campaign was disorganized and had no compelling message (Read the Newsweek article)
3) The mainstream media is essentially Fox and Fox-Lite.
4) The W Fear campaign filled the message vacuum.

For once, the Democrats had money but they didn't have organization or a message. And without MOM, you don't win campaigns.

And like the losers we were in the 1980s, the circular firing squads are forming to shoot all traitors be they Michael Moore or the DLC.

We don't need to be Republicans to win elections but we need to be a party. And that means looking at the voting data without preconceptions to determine where our strengths are and who is part of our base. And it also requires reaching out to those who didn't vote for us and ask why. In poll after poll, a majority embraces liberal values and ideas but they reject the label of liberal. We need to reclaim our good name. And we need to welcome ideas from all corners of the party. We've seen what the Republicans are all about and its out moral duty to be the party that stops their destruction of the working and middle class.

[RandomKoolzip]

57. Nice first post.

Welcome to DU, wabranty.

[wabranty]

82. Thank you

I was burned out after 2000 but 2004 reignited the fight in me.

[muchacho]

78. I disagree

I will give that "abuse" is the wrong term, but the point is the same.

Reps won, partially, because they are bullies and are willing to fight in lockstep for the power they so brazenly need.

The Dem leadership is more interested in access to power than shoring up their dwindling working class base. The Reps are more than willing to appeal to these voters by appealing to their baser instincts of fear, anger and bigotry.

[davidwparker]

58. This is why Dean needs to be DNC chair. He has the nads.

I watched the rebroadcast of Meet the Press yesterday only because Dean was on it. He's going for it. I had hoped he'd run in 2008, but this is what he wants to do, I support it.

Who criticizes this administration the way it needs to be done other than Howard? This was why I started listening to him in the first place. Everyone but Sharpton and Kucinich (at least what comes to mind at this time) just laid down before the king. Sickening!

Go Howard! And, Moore!

[elshiva]

61. God please, More Moore, Less DINOs

A Prayer for Democrats
Please God help our party to expose voter fraud, count votes, universalize health care, promote civil rights for all, stop outsourcing support the unions, and stop kow-towing to corporations especially Bushco.
Please God remind everyone that Bush did NOT win 2000 or 2004.
Now let's stop the personal attacks and with your strength, get to work.
Amen.

Oh, and thank You God that MM is making a sequel to F 9/11!
Amen.

[Laelth]

63. Anybody notice this?

Three times in that letter, the author says that the answer is to "walk away." Really? Should we all just move to Canada, then? Is "walking away" really the answer?

-Laelth

[Sugarbleus]

64. Yessssssssssss!!

My sentiments exactly. GO MIKE!!

We've been "had" and I ain't gonna take it NO MO'

I needed this "pep talk"...out come my bumper stickers AGAIN. NO DLC or any other upstart "New Liberalism" for me. It's the traditional core or some other party. Wooooooohoooo

BTW: STAY OUT OF IRAN, BUSH! You freaking fascist mongrel!

[frankly_fedup2]

70. I don't feel we are victims but survivors as long as we do not . . .

try to lean toward their beliefs (scary), and BS to be frank.

I have watched Democrats distance themselves from Michael Moore and have become very angry. After all, MM brought to light 9/11 and how bad they screwed it up. However, many of the Dems, whose voices get to be heard, readily distanced themselves because the bullies were claiming he was the extreme of what is now the Democratic Party. Also, Hollywood Dems were starting to be avoided, distanced from. Why is it okay to have a political opinion in Hollywood, and be able to speak out your beliefs and support Bush, but if you are a Hollywood Democrat, you are almost a traitor? Did you hear the Republican Party distance itself from Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh? No, and these two are extreme to me. Plus, they lie and put a major spin on issues. Also, Cheney was on Hannity's show and it was rather embarrassing to say the least the way that Hannity fawned over this man. (disgusting).

For example, Yesterday, Limbaugh opened with the Kerick scandal, but then totally turns it around and starts talking about Mark Rich and the oil for food scandal. He said Kerick's problems were soap operish. Unlike the fact that Clinton pardoned Rich due to undisclosed amounts of money for his Library and house of ill repute. Then he went into he was not ignoring Kericks affairs and jokingly (in his head), stated that Kerick's affairs would be a plus on a Dems resume'. Then, the whopper of the day, he stated that Kerick could not accept the nomination due to this so-called "scandal" because unlike Democrats, Republicans have morals. . . Ummmm. Rush Limbaugh talking about morals?????? (ROFLMAO). All this was in the first 45 minutes and I had to turn him off then. I listened to Al Franken, which I usually do; however, I wanted to see how Limbaugh handled the Kerick situation.

He brought the subject up, kind of spanked Kerick's hands with his comments, and then started with . . . "You want to know a real scandal, a real scandal" . . . and then he would go into a tirade about Clinton, the Library, Marc Rich, Denise Rich, Hillary Clinton. Do you see the spin here. He totally got everyone thinking about other so-called scandals (whether they are true or not, he had no facts, just gossip).

This morning I went onto the Freepers' site and was laughing so hard I almost . . . well, you know. Anyway, all they are talking about is Marc Rich, Clinton, Lewinsky , Hillary being bought off with money donated for her senate race, etc. (continually bringing this up is ridiculous. Bush is responsible for everything now, and he is a total failure). There was absolutely NOTHING about KERIC. Friggin amazing. They should be called the "Stepford Republicans" or the party of "Simon Says."

Well, Rush obviously can influence people who blindly follow a man who claims to be president, lies to everyone, including them. If Dems are out of work, so are they. If Dems pay more taxes, so will they. If there is a draft, which will be coming soon, their kids are gonna be going just like ours. I hope they are proud with what they have done.


The Democratic Party does not need to change it's beliefs or ideas. We do not need to try to become like them to win. We do not have to defend our beliefs against a bunch of hypocrits who use the word "Values" for their bigotries. There was no great religious right that won this election for Bush. There were 12% of so-called "Christians" who voted for Bush in 2000. Guess what the percentage was in 2004 . . . yep . . . 12%. However, they claim they were the ones who really got out the vote and Bush owes them now. Puhlease! Falwell continues to speak out about how Bush owes the new "Moral Majority" for his re(s)election. They say he owes them conservative judges placed in the Supreme Court to overturn Roe V Wade. plus some other things I cannot think about right now.

There is one thing that the Democratic Party needs to do, and this party of "The People" will bring this country up off its knees and really get some things accomplished . . . We just need to make sure the voting machines are being run by honest election officials . . . not by people who chaired Bush's re(s)election campaign for any particular state. In both elections, the Secretary of State (i.e. Harris/Blackwell), held this position. I find it odd that Bush won those states and when the votes were questioned, both Harris and Blackwell tried every way they could to keep the votes from getting counted. Blackwell held the total confirmation of the so-called votes of Ohio for 34 days. He should be fired for being so incompetent because it took him 34 days to release the information.

I don't think we lost the elections of 2000, 2002, or 2004. I think all of these elections were stolen from us not by voter . . . but by fraud.

[Person_Of_Interest]

80. Couldn't of said it better!!!!

[ChiciB1]

81. I Just Love How

we ALL stick together and make ourselves sooooo much stronger! Isn't it wonderful how we run roughshod over those who appear to be on our side??
Ain't it Great??
Wake-Up... we need to have some COHESION, as in UNITING and FIGHTING!
Looks more like Shattered Glass to me!!!

[evetodd]

83. The future

I have decided to return to law school. If Republicans hate trial lawyers so much, then I will become one. I have been told my whole life I should be a lawyer, and I always root for the underdog. So to all Republicans I say BRING IT ON!