Why we should all be screaming now.

[madfloridian]

There is such obsession here with trying to use the Newt Gingrich type tactics of humiliation about the passion of Howard Dean. Since I understood the scream then, and even more now, I hereby reclaim it as my own.

First, there is nothing wrong with having a passion about your country. There is nothing wrong with having emotion, period. I have seen so many of our Democrats on TV looking so staid and proper, trying so hard to please their abusers in the media and in the Republican party, that I would almost welcome such passion again.

Second: there was the ad done by fellow Democrats. It is highlighted so well in the C-Span link below. There have been threads on it, but the scream threads linger here . In fact supporters of ANY candidate should have screamed while listening to it. These guys are political hacks who have no souls, who laugh at us and the politicians they supposedly represent....and they ruin people..and then they laugh.

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=annenberg&image1.x=23&image1.y=11
Univ. of Penn. Public Policy Conference, "527s in 2004: Did They Make A Difference?"
Speakers Brian McCabe, President of the Progress for America Voter Fund; Chris LaCivita, Chief Strategist for Swift Boat Veterans for Truth; Stephen Moore, President of the Club For Growth; Erik Smith, President of The Media Fund; Bill Zimmerman Campaign Manager for MoveOn.org Voter Fund; David Jones of Americans for Jobs, Healthcare and Progressive Values; Kathleen Hall Jamieson fo the Annenberg Public Policy Center; and Brooks Jackson of the Annenberg Public Policy Center; talk about "527s in 2004: Did They Make A Difference?" at the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.
12/6/2004: WASHINGTON, DC: 3 hr. 30 min.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

But that is not enough. Here is more about the 527 David Jones discusses in the video above (2:58 into video). It tells who paid for it, it gives the full background. It is going to be one of the great American tragedies. Charles Lewis's site is respected, he is respected. He does his homework.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=194&sid=200

March 4, 2004 — As Mark Twain once put it, "A truth is not hard to kill and a lie told well is immortal."

SNIP..."On November 7, 2003, a strange new group no one had ever heard of called "Americans for Jobs & Healthcare" was quietly formed and soon thereafter began running a million dollar operation including political ads against then-frontrunner Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean. The commercials ripped Dean over his positions or past record on gun rights, trade and Medicare growth. But the most inflammatory ad used the visual image of Osama bin Laden as a way to raise questions about Dean's foreign policy credibility. While the spots ran, Americans for Jobs—through its then-spokesman, Robert Gibbs, a former Kerry campaign employee—refused to disclose its donors..."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There is another reason Dean might have screamed. He did not word everything just perfectly when he tried to talk about the South.
What he said needed to be said, but they humiliated him again.
Al Sharpton said "You can't bring a Confederate flag to the table of brotherhood."

John Edwards publicly said: "The last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do"

And some Democratic candidate or candidates paid for the Confederate flag to be demonstrated laughingly at Dean's NH rallies. I don't blame him for screaming.
I took the picture out. You can request it be locked. The others are still going strong, though.

[aquart]

1. The Confederate flag stands for treason, bigotry, slavery, and LOSING.

[madfloridian]

3. I am simply telling what they did to him.

If you think it is ok, if you think so....then I despair for our country. You did not even read my post, you just had a visceral reaction......I did not condone it.

I am sad for the way things are here now. Don't you understand it at all?

[sangh0]

15. You complain about thigns that happened months ago

and when someone disagrees, you claim someone else is responding emotionally.

I couldn't make this up if I tried.

[cali]

2. Please, please, please

don't feed the Dean flame wars. I understand your passion for Dean and I appreciate it when you post positive things about him and keep us up to date with his appearances, but we've already discussed this ad nauseum in recent days. This IMHO, is not helpful.

[madfloridian]

4. Should I go back into hiding while others do it?

It is very sad. Ok, I will go back to the DFA forum.

The flame wars don't need to be fed. They did not need to be fed during the primaries.

It is others who start the flame wars, and I am supposed to ignore it while they kick it for days?

Sorry you feel that way.

[StClone]

5. Dean has more than Passion

He has the truth and much support still. The Right thinks they can diminish him with a trumped up scream junk, while Bush-the-Destroyer can swear, give the finger, mangle the language and logic with abandon.

The only thing Dean lacks is a unbiased media. Though my first choice was Clark, Dean and Edwards were tied for second. I have yet to see persuasive arguments why Dean is unelectable other than R-w talking points and a Corporate media maligning.

[madfloridian]

6. There is harm being done here. My passion is for my country.

There is harm being done by people who come to post hatred against certain candidates. It is not just Dean. This is a sad thing, when our country has just been through such a bad time.

I get furious when it is implied my passion is for Dean. My passion is for my country, and for the breakdown of our political system.

I am alarmed more and more at what goes on.

[Q]

7. Instead of suggesting that this thread shouldn't exist...

...why not ignore it and allow others to make that decision for themselves.

It seems that some don't want to be reminded that the Democratic party has adopted many of the RWing's dirty tricks...except they use it on other Democrats instead of the Bushies.

[cali]

8. The answer to that is stunningly simple:

I have a right to express my opinion. I felt like doing so, and I did.

[madfloridian]

10. Do you go on the real flame threads and ask them to stop?

Just wondering. I made an intelligent post, stunningly simple and clear, and I told the truth.

Have you posted to the real flame threads about stopping it?

[cali]

12. MF, I've made many, many posts

to threads in defense of Dean, when he's being bashed. I'm truly fond of Dean and have been for a great many years. I supported him for Gov and President. I love DFA. I'm surprised you haven't noticed my oft spirited defense of Dean. Most of the threads I've seen, don't start out Dean bashing; they're often your threads, and more than a couple of times, I've suggested that people stop trying to turn them in flame wars, and go post something positive about someone they're passionate about.

[Q]

19. But yet you object to others expressing their opinion?

I guess I just don't get your type of thinking. Free speech for thee and none for me?

There are dozens of threads started every hour on this board. You have the option of posting to those threads or letting them die. It shouldn't be an option to chill discussion or flame thread authors because you don't like the topic of the thread.

How about letting others start threads on any topic that is within the rules? They will live or die on their own merits.

[cali]

20. Your ire is misplaced

I didn't seek to chill discussion. I wrote a polite plea expressing my point of view. I didn't stop anyone from posting anything, and had I the power, I'd scarcely exercise it here. In no way did I suggest that I had a right to speech and others didn't. How about toning down the excessive rhetoric? Just a suggestion, not a demand.

[RafterMan]

9. Maybe

the OP doesn't support threads like this not for the effect on him or herself, but for the effect on others.

I'm on the fence about Dean, and the all the martyrdom threads do is feed my suspicions. If the expected effect is the opposite, I don't see that happening.

[madfloridian]

11. Confused.

The flame threads go on in the hundreds, and I just posted in defense.

I am no martyr, and I am not a victim. I am an American who is stunned at the tactics used by and the hatred among Democrats.

[cali]

13. Thanks. That was indeed my point-

that threads like these alienate people like you who are on the fence.

[madfloridian]

16. Whoa, I get it now.

The anti-Dean flame threads only alienate us. The ones pointing out why something occurred alienate fence-sitters.

I am not trying to get people to support Dean. He is not running for anything they can vote for. And I hate to even see him get DNC chair anyway.

I don't like to see anyone posting attacks on anyone.

[madfloridian]

17. Doubled posted itself....deleted by me.

.

[Generator]

14. Hey I'll give you a vote of support

Your point and article are very good.

Passion is important and I think the other side knew that too well.

They were AFRAID of the passion that Dean invoked in his followers. Any wonder why Kerry was painted as dull??

But the collary to that is that Dean in that one scream moment was viciously, purposely painted and marginilized as someone "scarey".

That was the point-he's a loon. It's unblievable propaganda. The guy is a pretty normal, average-no bimbo scandals, no questionable business ties-dammit he's proabably as upstanding as they come and oh yeah-a Doctor-know for being way way out there. A real freak. Propaganda is all it is.

And he dared to say the confederate thing. Dean dared to say the truth all the time. And that is totally scrarey to the maintsream media-boy does it make them look bad-Dean knows more than they do.

Besides which, this country is in horrible denial. Horrible, horrible. You can't even discuss with the Dems things like, "Hmmm...is there a reason why Johnson was the last Dem to win the south...hmm.." Can't call a spade a spade. Dean did that. Honesty has no place in politics, apparently, and apparently neither does believing you really can take your country back.

Cynicism is so much easier. "They are all crooked. What's the point?"

It's even worse when it's coming from our own.

[madfloridian]

18. Thanks for getting it.

I am not doing anything but pointing out the obvious.

A lot of good people with high ideals were hurt badly by all this. I know a lot of them, students at the college here. They were involved for the first time really, and one of them called me the other day after they watch C-Span. I felt bad for him.

But you see, here it is not fashionable to feel sad....it makes one a martyr or victim.

My post was about politics in general, and you did get it. Thanks.

[XemaSab]

21. 2 points

Carter was the last dem to win the south

www.grayraven.com/ec

And they did the same thing to Dean that they did to John McCain.... it's pretty hard to live down the taint of mental instability.

[Cats Against Frist]

22. IT IS ALL GOP PSY OP

Listen -- there is and never was anything wrong with the scream. He was never "out of control," he was never "wild-eyed," -- the whole goddamn thing is the GOP attack with the "style-over-substance" fallacy, which is their favorite god damn fallacy, because they neither have to 1. Outright insult the speaker and look like assholes to the plebs or 2. Actually make an argument.

You saw it SKILLFULLY with the Donald Rumsfeld question -- even though the QUESTION WAS VALID, they ended up attacking the method by which the question was asked, voiding the question. I call it the "rules of discourse" fallacy, and it was the same with Mary Cheney, and talking bad about Reagan and Al Gore's speech and Michael Moore -- they attack the DELIVERY, TIMING or VEHICLE of the message -- rather than the actual speaker or the argument. This is their NUMBER ONE TACTIC, in my opinion, and since the media played the Dean Scream umpteenbazillion times, I am SURE that they are in the pocket of the right wing.

There was no other reason to get all over that scream. This is part of their "noise machine," to keep people from having any intelligent discourse.