Are you absolutely sick of Democratic infighting on this board?

[JohnnyCougar]

[LoZoccolo]

1. Apparently you're not.

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

3. How can you harp on him?

Do you read any of the threads you start?

This is like me bitching about someone for being sarcastic.

[LoZoccolo]

4. Oh I'm not necessarily against infighting, don't get me wrong.

I'm just saying that fighting about fighting is just more fighting, so it's not above the fray or anything like that.

[Forkboy]

7. That response made my head hurt

:)

[JohnnyCougar]

6. What?

How does this post spur infighting.

I'm sick of people trashing each other.

So far, our loss in 2004 has been blamed on:

John Kerry
John Edwards
Mary Beth Cahill
The DNC
The DLC
Gays
Blacks
Southerners
Women
Hispanics
Liberal Christians
Catholics
Centrists
Moderates
Greens
Fraud
Pro-Choice Democrats
Blogs
Howard Dean
Terry McAuliffe
and more...

All of the above have been verbally disrespected, trashed, demonized, slandered.....and it has gotten us nowhere.

I'm tired of people trashing our own members. What the hell was wrong with John Kerry? He was 60,000 switched votes away from beating a wartime incumbent president with the media against him, not to mention against a guy with a campaign manager that has Hitler as a lowest common denominator for his bahavior.

So you have any idea what a challenge it was to come close in this election?

I like Kerry, and I like Dean. And I can put up with all the other groups. We are all on the same side here.

[LoZoccolo]

12. Sorry, I misunderstood. n/t

[yellowdogintexas]

36. extraordinary comments ....thank you!!!!!

[genius]

42. I don't believe it's Democrats who are causing tje problem.

I've been reading elsewhere abouthow the freepers are wrecking havoc on this board.

[Forkboy]

2. Nope,I think it's totally necessary

like a snake shedding it's skin.

[nightperson]

19. Good analogy.

This is the perfect time for people to both think and act way "out of the box".

This article is a great depiction of Republican infighting, with folks getting locked out of offices, etc..

[wyldwolf]

24. good thing we don't all have offices at the DU Megaplex Office Suite

[autorank]

5. People work stuff out here. Infighting on issues/candidates is

fine as long as it's not personal, nasty, or vulgar (that's reserved for the Republicans). I almost always find something I agree with when I disagree with a poster and I mention that. It starts a productive dialog for me and I rethink my position and subsequent actions. When it gets nasty and personal, however, it is totally unacceptable.

For example, I responded to a poster who supported Ford by saying I did too but Ford was a pussy for sitting on the sidelines on voter suppression. He shot back that he agreed that voter suppression was a noncontroversial issue. I thought a little more about Ford and that was it. No name calling or histrionics. It's called engaged political discourse.

We all get together and have a :toast: at the end of the day and move on together to fight the machine.

[LeftCoast]

8. This ain't nuthin'

There was this utterly brutal period around the '02 election as I recall...

edited to add: It isn't really bad until there've been 20 threads titled "I've had it with DU and I'm not coming back" :)

[TreasonousBastard]

9. It wouldn't be so bad...

if at least half the people fighting had the slightest idea what they are talking about.

[Lexingtonian]

10. Amen to that....

The infighting is necessary but there's nothing as dreary as Rebels With Half A Clue.

[blondeatlast]

28. True that.

Reminds me if the primaries, actually.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AgadorSparticus]

13. honest criticisms are taken as infighting and bashing right now.

i was gone for awhile and came back to a democratic version of the RW lockstep mentality. many people worked their asses off and pumped chunks of hard earned money into the kerry campaign (like myself). but we can't voice our frustrations with kerry and the democratic party without getting labeled a disruptor of some sort.

the other thing that has me utterly flabbergasted is the assumption that criticising kerry or the democratic party = not supportive of the efforts for exposing votergate or whatever you want to call it. i thought democrats would be above this sort of illogical bullying. kind of like me not supporting the troops because i don't support the fucked up foreign policies.

this 'either you're with us or you're against us' mentality looks ugly no matter what political persuasion is using it. the main thing that i miss is the lack of real discourse because everyone is too busy rah rah-ing for kerry and getting everyone else in lockstep.

i must have missed the day when the kerry koolaid was passed around.

[JohnnyCougar]

15. Um, all I've seen on here is Kerry bashing.

I've seen more negative Kerry posts than not lately, mostly because he is not vocally supporting the fraud allegations enough.

We are putting him between a rock and a hard place when we do that.

[AgadorSparticus]

17. But he isn't and it is your opinion that he is being put between a

rock and a hard place and I respect that. But I also feel that he has a responsibility to people that worked for him to get some answers about his actions or inactions. I don't care if it inconveniences him. I want answers and I think he owes it to me and many others like me.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. I am between a rock and a hard place.....Kerry has no idea what

a rock or a hard place is. He is between a wealthy wife and a cushy job.

I'd like to keep some perspective on who exactly is suffering here in the USA. It's not rich senators.

[Peter Frank]

14. Disagreement breeds discussion...

...discussion breeds a broader foundation.

[JohnnyCougar]

16. Healthy conflict is good

Outright trashing of others is counterproductuve.

[MessiahRp]

40. Except

for Dems, disagreement has meant apathy once their guy is out of the running. That's why there have been so many Naderites in the past who refused to stand with Gore and Deanies who refused to stand with Kerry at the end.

The Right Wingers could hate every non-conservative part of Bush but they at least fall in line to make sure that the guy closest to their agenda/ideaology is in office. We don't do that and that's why we continue to lose.

Rp

[Leilani]

18. When Kerry won the nomination, it was amazing how people united

behind him. For many, he was 2nd or 3rd or last choice, but the majority put aside their differences, & worked & or contributed to him.

After the election it's not surprising there's lots of debate, discussion, & disagreement. Lots of anger, frustration, but hopefully it will lead to positive change.

People need to vent; it's natural. Give people time to deal with it.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. Fuck No....

there is still shit that needs to be hashed out.

[Disturbed]

22. As a Green...

I am real supportive of progressive Dems. I encouraged Greens to vote for Kerry/Edwards. Many of us here were real disappointed at the outcome and some of us are still trying to adjust to what seems to be the harsh reality that even if major fraud is proven that the Rethugs will retain power. They surely have it in Congress and most of the Media. Healthy non-bashing debate are essential.

[VOX]

21. It's not pleasant, but healing and growth can be painful processes...

It's something that needs to be worked out. It's a necessary part of the process in coming to terms with what happened, and hopefully to participate in a reconfiguration of the Democratic Party itself.

[rman]

23. it's not infighting, it's disagreement on fundamental issues.

and it's about time those are discussed.

[orpupilofnature57]

26. TOMMY AND ALEXANDER HAD AN ARGUMENT, RESULTING

IN DEMOCRACY, then came George, no argument.

[Q]

27. Know what the mainstream media uses as an excuse...

...not to make the Bushies accountable and report on their many scandals and crimes? They say people are tired of all the infighting and scandals after the Clinton years...so they will simply ignore them...as if they never happened.

We've seen the same trend in the Republican party since at least Reagan...when the standing order was to not criticize any other Republican.

That's how the Republicans ended up with what LOOKS like a unified party...but in reality is nothing more than a protection racket for their leadership. DeLay's recent 'problems' with ethics is a good example of how Republicans are reluctant (afraid) to police their own party.

Is this what you want for the Dem party? That's what you're asking for when you complain about 'infighting' on this board or anywhere else. Those who lead this party must be held to a higher standard than that of the RWing 'mafia' running this country right now.

[sherilocks]

29. I can't answer the poll

I don't mind infighting if we are fighting over specific ideas and if the people doing the fighting know what they are talking about. When DUers argue and the DUers doing the arguing post legitimate ideas and, when possible, some links to back up the argument, then I learn a lot. I've even changed my changed my mind a couple of times. :)

When the infighting turns ugly or emotion driven, not fact driven, or when a DUer posts a deliberately incendiary comment, knowing damned well it's going to get people enraged, then I get sick of the infighting.

[supernova]

30. No. That's what the board is for

Most people like me come to this board to read and to learn and to test out out ideas against each other.

For some of us, it's the best way to figure out what we think. Sometimes I agree. Sometimes I disagree. But I always learn something in the process.

If it ever gets too frustrating, just take a break for a few days. You are not obligated to log on to DU every day. :P

Heh. True. It's not that bad unless 20 people have been to the Lounge to announce "I"m LEAVING!! Goodby cruel world. GoodBye DU!!" ;-)

[bemildred]

31. No, I think it's great.

If you want conformity go join the Republicans.

[Rockerdem]

34. Hooray for vigorous discussion

But boooooo for going for the throat and thrashing around disorganized. Pubbies have the uncanny knack of picking 2 or 3 policy issues and focusing on them like a laser. It serves them well. They can communicate them easily to the semi-clueless voting public. And, once they get in, they can use all their energy getting their crap accomplished. Meanwhile here, if someone doesn't get their pet project stroked, its off to a new 3rd party. Im getting fatigued . . . sigh. We were so much more united and determined about a month ago.

[bemildred]

39. Politics is not a tea party.

Thrashing things out here is practice for thrashing "Conservatives".
If you don't have a thick hide, stay on the sidelines.

[janx]

32. There is honest disagreement on this board,

and then there are the people who start arguments for sport. the latter are getting really boring.

[American Tragedy]

33. Once again, I think we are naturally a fractious party

which is based in an ideology that disdains deference and blind loyalty, and therefore we value the ability to criticize one another freely.

Usually this is very healthy, as long as our arguments are oriented toward improving the progressive cause and undermining our enemies. We should never try to deter others from questioning conventional wisdom, even if it evokes discord, nor should we hold back from responding.

The fighting can only become self-destructive when we try to deliberately tear each other apart, or divide amongst ourselves.

I think we do need to remember that we all came to this site because we share a certain worldview and generally have a common cause, however difficult it may be to see through our individual battles. Under the surface, we're on the same team, and if we cannot find a way to reconcile our differences and at least stick together for the major wars, there is no doubt that we will all lose.

[Kahuna]

35. "Fractious" is a euphemism for disorganized. That's what we are..

That'ss why we keep losing. Nobody knows what we stand for. So, as long as we're seen as "fractious" the voting public will continue to pass us up.

When I hear repukes say that we don't stand for anything, I can understand why voters would believe that. For instance, on the Sunday talking heads circuit, the repukes are all on message. While the dems are all over the place. Pelosi promised to try to do something about that. I have noticed the Dems being a little more cohesive. Still, their message is namby pamby and weak. They should be up and running with a strong message every week.

[American Tragedy]

38. I agree, and that is the product of incompetent leadership

I know that I stand for something. When people ask what I believe in as a Democrat, I can explain it very specifically. It's not that fucking hard. Most of the men and women on DU can do the same thing.

Then, when I finish, they question why prominent Democrats don't say what I described, if that's really what Democrats stand for. I can't really respond to that, since I don't know why either.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. No. It's time for the Dems to decide what they stand for.

Are they moderate Republicans or Liberals?

[Nordic]

41. Yes! Please everyone, start agreeing with me!

Agree with me about everything, and there will be no more fighting.

An elegant solution.

:)

[MODemocrat]

43. Yes, and i've thought about leaving DU

I appreciate constructive criticism, but much of the posting here is beyond that. Many times it sounds as if the right wing has quite a bit of influence on us.