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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 08:03 PM
Original message
The History Channel, CIA and the Nazis
Six months after Allied Forces liberated German concentration camps, a military tribunal formed at Nuremberg to prosecute Nazi war criminals. Some of the most dangerous were brought to justice--but not all. Over 4,000 former Nazis went to work for the U.S. government, without the public's knowledge, to help fight the Soviet Union. Reinhard Gehlen, an intelligence officer for Hitler's General Staff, was tapped to head the U.S. intelligence program in West Germany to spy on the Russians. At the same time, former Nazi scientists and engineers were welcomed onto American soil. In 1998, a bill was finally signed into law that mandated declassification of documents concerning recruitment of former Nazis. We dig into the records to see if the ends justified the means and ask how far the U.S. should go to partner with a former enemy to fight another.

Airing Sunday, December 19, 10 pm/9c


http://www.military.com/historychannel


This program sounds very interesting.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. It wasn't just the formation of the CIA, real Nazis, their families and
friends, Nazi partisans from around the world-many of them convicted war criminals, sentenced to death--all were "recruited" in the Cold War against godless communism by the US and given identities and jobs as Americans working in "national security".

Operation PAPERCLIP links
http://www.infoage.org/paperclip.html

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MEL305A.html

These Nazis found a political home in the RW of The Republican Party.
Old Nazi Networks in US
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/political-science/fascism/bellant/bellant.pt1
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. yea, I'm aware it gets pretty deep
When I seen this announced on the History Channel I knew it was a must watch.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why.... this could never happen... not here.... how totally freaking
amazing is this FACT. How dare we always claim to wear the white hat. What hypocrites. What opportunists. What (willing to do WHATEVER) to have their way types. Shame on them.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Oh it's fact
Start a few Google searches and you'll soon see.
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Grooner Five Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm not sure I understand
Why would it be a bad thing to recruit the best and brightest German officers and scientists, assuming they hadn't been directly involved in atrocities and deserving of sentence for war crimes? The growing Soviet threat to Europe and the USA in the post WWII era was nothing to sneeze at, I can't blame our government for recruiting and employing the best minds it could in pursuit of protecting this nation.

Would all German soldiers of WWII be exempt from rejoining the peace after the war, and performing duties in the employ of a now allied country with a mind toward a common defense against a growing red threat? If so, why?

I can understand the knee-jerk reaction to stories like this, but think that upon reflection, they tend to make a bit more sense. After the defeat of the Third Reich, the overwhelming number of "Nazis" who were involved in their country's armed forces and military research simply became "Germans" again. And it was in a free Germany's best interest to thwart Soviet expansion.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Well for starters
You mention the Soviet threat to the USA and Europe during that time. Were you aware of a strong fascist undercurrent in our country during this same period? There were those that wanted our political system fashioned in the way of Hitler. Plus there were those that openly helped fiance Nazi Germany, Prescott Bush, grandfather of our now current president and world class idiot shrub Bush being one such person. These are things that are conveniently left out of our school studies.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I'm getting really, really afraid. I know now why most people
just choose not to 'know' or to ask. :eyes:
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Will the mention the Nazi ties of our leaders' ancestors?
Prescott Bush, Nazi financier
Karl Rove's grandpa, who built concentration camps
Rumsfeld's grandfather, who worked for the same company
Schwarzenegger's father, a Nazi SS officer

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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Kill the Leaders Take captive the Followers"-- I Ching n/t
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Grooner Five Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Something else worth noting
...is the quality and precision of the German weapons industry. The Nazi equipment was, for the most part, vastly superior to ours. We simply outproduced and overwhelmed them, but they definitely had the edge on technology. They had Messerschmitt Me-262 jet fighters going up against our P-51s by the end of 1944, and developed the MP43 - the first modern infantry assault weapon. Their Panzer tanks were excellent and superior to ours. Good stuff.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the United States, under Democrat Harry Truman, hadn't procured some of those German scientists to go to work for our armed services and defense industry, Stalin would have been all too happy to have them working for the Soviets.



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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Many of these German spies...
who were already spying on the Soviet Union ended up being double agents that did irreparable harm to the National Security of the United States. Many of these people weren't just followers, many, such as Klaus Barbie, were outright murderers who were hunted for their crimes, he was know as the "Butcher of Lyons." Is this acceptable? Hell even Werner von Braun, was, to put it bluntly, a slave holder.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. They are playing "Clear and present danger" atm...
Im watching it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. The C.I.A. & The Muslim BrotherhoodHow the CIA set the stage for Sept11
Reverend Franklin Graham, the pugnacious preacher who delivered the prayer at President George W. Bush's 2001 inauguration, might have a bone to pick with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). When Franklin branded Islam "a very evil and wicked religion" after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, he had no idea that American spies were once eager to promote a Muslim leader in the Middle East modeled after his own father, the famous evangelist Billy Graham.

The CIA often works in mysterious ways - and so it was with this little-known cloak-and-dagger caper that set the stage for extensive collaboration between US intelligence and Islamic extremists. The genesis of this ill-starred alliance dates back to Egypt in the mid-1950s, when the CIA made discrete overtures to the Muslim Brotherhood, the influential Sunni fundamentalist movement that fostered Islamic militancy throughout the Middle East. What started as a quiet American flirtation with political Islam became a Cold War love affair on the sly - an affair that would turn out disastrously for the United States. Nearly all of today's radical Islamic groups, including al-Qaeda, trace their lineage to the Brotherhood.

.............

To understand what happened on that fateful day when terrorist strikes leveled the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon, one must revisit the turbulent changes that took place a half century earlier in the land of the sphinx. After seizing power in a 1952 military coup Egyptian Col. Gamal Abdul Nasser quickly threw prominent Communists in jail. This raised eyebrows among US cloak-and-dagger operatives who were eager to oblige when Nasser requested help in upgrading Egypt's ineffectual secret service. But the US government "found it highly impolitic to help him directly," the late CIA agent Miles Copeland acknowledged in his memoirs, The Game of Nations , so the CIA subcontracted more than a hundred German Third Reich vets, who specialized in Nazi security and interrogation techniques, to do the job.

..............

Copeland was off and running. He visited several Egyptian mosques in search of an Islamic preacher who could sway the Arab masses in a manner most congenial to US interests. Although Copeland never found the CIA's messiah, his furtive machinations were not without impact. While on the prowl for a Muslim Billy Graham, Copeland reached out to leaders of the religious revival movement known as the Ikhwan, or Muslim Brotherhood, which sought to build an Islamic society from the bottom up. The seeds of a clandestine relationship between the CIA and the Ikhwan were planted by Copeland, who surmised that the Muslim Brothers, by virtue of their strong antipathy to Arab nationalism as well as Communism, might be a viable counterweight to Nasser in the years ahead, US intelligence would become a defacto partner of the Brotherhood as it evolved from a mass-based social reform organization into the wellspring of Islamic terrorism.

more
Martin Lee
RazorMagazine0804

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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. post a link
to the rest of the article. Thanks
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's not on line but here is more from the article

The Muslim Brothers are at the root of a lot of our troubles," says Col. W. Patrick Lang, one of several US intelligence veterans iterviewed for this article. Formerly a high-ranking Middle East expert at the Defence Intelligence Agency, Lang considers al-Qaeda to be "a descenent of the Brotherhood."

For many years, the American espionge establishment had operated on the assumption that Islam was inherently anti-communist and therefore could be harnessed to facilitate US objectives. American officals viewed the Muslim Brotherhood as "a secret weapon" in the shadow war against the Soviet Union and its Arab allies, according to Robert Baer, a retired CIA case officer who was right in the thick of things in the Middle East and Central Asia during his 21 year career as a spy. In Sleeping with the Devil, a book he wrote after quitting the CIA, Baer explains how the United States "made common cause witht the Brothers" and used them "to do our dirty work in Yemen, Afghanistan and plenty of other places." This covert relationship unraveled when the Cold War ended, whereupon, an Islamic Frankenstein named Osama bin Laden lurched into existence.

Described by ex-CIA analyst Graham Fuller as “the preeminent international Islamist organization,” the Muslim Brotherhood currently has a huge following, with autonomous branches, all in close contact, spread across the Arab world. But it is banned in several countries, including Egypt, its birthplace, for being an alleged front for terrorists – a claim its supporters adamantly deny even though bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders had close personal ties to the Brotherhood prior to September 11.

Exiled Ikhwani were also employed as teachers and imams in Saudi mosques, schools and government agencies, where they promoted the extremist doctrine of Sayyid Qutb, the Brotherhood's leading scribe and theorist. Executed in 1966 after 10 years of confinement in Egyptian torture chambers, Qutb is arguably the most influential religious scholar in modern Islam. He fashioned a lethal variant of political Islam that provided a Koranic justification for violence as the only way to rid the Muslim world of corrupting Western influences. Qutb's hostility toward the West, in general, and the United States, in particular, was born during two years of study at the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley in the late 1940's. He returned to Egypt mortified by decadent, sex-crazed America, which he likened to a brothel.

The Muslim Brotherhood underwent a significant shift with the radicalization of Qutb in prison. What had been essentially a reformist organization in its formative phase veered off in a dangerous new direction. In addition to intro ducting a harsh anti-American perspective to the Brethen, Qutb called for the formation of a revolutionary Islamic vanguard to spearhead the violent overthrow of secular Arab regimes. Qutb's martyrdom bestowed instant credibility upon his message, which posthumously filled the ideological void left by the huge Arab defeat in the 1967 Six Day War with Israel, a defeat that shamed Nasser and discredited the Arab nationalist cause.

Qutb's inflammatory writings would decisively influence a generation of young militants, including the future spear-carriers of al-Qaeda. Osama bin Laden, the tall, handsome scion of a wealthy Persian Gulf family, was first exposed to Qutb's nostrums while attending King Abdul-Aziz University in Jeddah. One of bin Laden's instructors in religious studies was Egyptian Professor Muhammed Qutb, the exiled brother of Sayyid Qutb, who taught classes on the imperatives and nuances of Islamic jhad.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. and more
After Nasser died in 1970, the Muslim Brethren, buoyed by Saudi petrodollars, resurfaced in Egypt. The newly emboldened Ikhwani were wooed by President Anwaar Sadat, Nasser's successor, who freed Islamic activists from jail, lifted some restrictions on the Brothers, and turned them loose against the Nasserite die-hards and leftist student groups who disapproved of Sadat's decision to make amends with the United States. Sadat's courtship of the Brotherhood elicited more winks and nods from US intelligence. Right under the CIA's nose, the officially-banned by semi-tolerated Muslim Brotherhood was going through a momentous transformation in its country of origin.

French scholar Gilles Kepel, the author of Jhad: The Trail of Political Islam, describes how Qutb's theories found a receptive audience at Egyptian university campuses, giving rise to a potent radical wing with in the Islamist movement. When the older leaders of the Ikhwan, chastened by years of repression, repudiated armed confrontation in favor of gradual efforts to reform the system, renegade Brothers created several violent splinter groups and vowed to wage holy war against an authoritarian Egyptian regime, which they saw as corrupt, anti-Islamic, and a US puppet. The heads of two Brotherhood breakaway factions - the Egyptian Islamic Jhad of Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Islamic Group of Sheik Omar Abdei Rahman - were among those implicated in the 1981 assassination of President Sadat.

Today Rahman, a blind Egyptian cleric, is serving a life sentence in the United States for plotting to blow up the United Nations, Manhattan's FBI building, the George Washington Bridge and other New York City landmarks, while Dr. al-Zawahiri, a squat, bespectacled zealot with a round head and owlish face, appears in post-9/11 video footage sitting on the right-hand side of Osama bin Laden. Dubbed "the brains behind al-Qaeda," al-Zawahiri became bin Laden's top deputy after the Egyptian physician had matriculated through the ranks of the Muslim Brother.


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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I hope you didn't have to write all of that
LOL. This is the time I've read about this. It's amazing what they do behind the scenes. All of it leading to no good.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Yes I did and here's more
Exiled Ikhwani were also employed as teachers and imams in Saudi mosques, schools and government agencies, where they promoted the extremist doctrine of Sayyid Qutb, the Brotherhood's leading scribe and theorist. Executed in 1966 after 10 years of confinement in Egyptian torture chambers, Qutb is arguably the most influential religious scholar in modern Islam. He fashioned a lethal variant of political Islam that provided a Koranic justification for violence as the only way to rid the Muslim world of corrupting Western influences. Qutb's hostility toward the West, in general, and the United States, in particular, was born during two years of study at the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley in the late 1940's. He returned to Egypt mortified by decadent, sex-crazed America, which he likened to a brothel.

The Muslim Brotherhood underwent a significant shift with the radicalization of Qutb in prison. What had been essentially a reformist organization in its formative phase veered off in a dangerous new direction. In addition to intro ducting a harsh anti-American perspective to the Brethen, Qutb called for the formation of a revolutionary Islamic vanguard to spearhead the violent overthrow of secular Arab regimes. Qutb's martyrdom bestowed instant credibility upon his message, which posthumously filled the ideological void left by the huge Arab defeat in the 1967 Six Day War with Israel, a defeat that shamed Nasser and discredited the Arab nationalist cause.

Qutb's inflammatory writings would decisively influence a generation of young militants, including the future spear-carriers of al-Qaeda. Osama bin Laden, the tall, handsome scion of a wealthy Persian Gulf family, was first exposed to Qutb's nostrums while attending King Abdul-Aziz University in Jeddah. One of bin Laden's instructors in religious studies was Egyptian Professor Muhammed Qutb, the exiled brother of Sayyid Qutb, who taught classes on the imperatives and nuances of Islamic jhad.

RAZOR Magazine September 2004
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Kick
program about to start Eastern time!:kick:
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. How Bush's Grandfather Helped Hitler Rise to Power
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=44&contentid=1556&page=1
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. It wasn't just Prescott Bush enthralled with the Nazis to be a partner
with them-their was a fair amount of popular support and a shitload of businesses involved with the Third Reich.

The 1930's: Nazis Parading on Main Street
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/1930s.html

Corporate Traitors
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/waryearsp5.html
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I realize that
read my post # 10.
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Bush was AWOL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. The History Channel sure likes to focus on Negatives during Democratic adm
instrations. Was Pearl Harbor allowed to take place on FDR's part? Did the Government cover up Oklahoma City? Did the Democrat administration hire Nazi's?

I'd love to see the History Channel investigate and analyze the Reagan administrations relationship with Saddam Hussein and with Rebels in Central and South America. Or, how about a special on Iran Contra?
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. kick nt
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