So, how the hell did Bush ever get the reputation of being a Christian?

[Poiuyt]

Just because he says he is? He sure doesn't act like one.

[Nite Owl]

1. That's about it

and repeated it til it became an accepted fact, lie or not. That's what they do for everything they don't let something like truth stand in the way of the message they want out there.

[DireStrike]

2. You're watching Fox! "We..are...watching..fox..."

[TaleWgnDg]

3. What I'd love to know is how GWBush can call himself a

Methodist when his own church stated that he does not espouse Methodist tenets/teachings/beliefs . . . ?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1020-02.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32946


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"And the religious people (GWBush) was connected
with in Texas aren't anything like the mainstream
— even the mainstream in Texas." — Molly Ivins,
political pundit, on GWBush as Governor of Texas.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


.

[hfojvt]

27. thanks for the links

but Tooley misses the point:

"Bush is supposedly a bad Christian and a bad Methodist because, like most Methodists, he does not agree with these church officials in their equation of compassion with a large federal welfare state and in their opposition to a strong military defense for America," Tooley said. "These United Methodist officials are effectively telling the president he is not a good Christian because his policies do not match their own left-wing beliefs."

Bush is not necessarily a bad Christian because of his policies, but he is definitely a bad Christian because of the LIES he tells about his policies. However, Tooley must also be aware that the Methodist church does officially support some "left-wing beliefs"

" There are many ways Bush seems to defy the Methodist book of discipline. In its "social principles" the book of discipline calls for stewardship of the environment:
"Furthermore, we recognize the responsibility of the church toward lifestyle and systemic changes in society that will promote a more ecologically just world and a better quality of life for all creation." #64 p. 85
and energy conservation:
"Further, we urge the wholehearted support of the conservation of energy and responsible development of renewable energy sources, that the goodness of the earth may be affirmed." #64B p. 86
Also, unlike Bush, the Methodist church supports affirmative action:
"We support affirmative action as one method of addressing the inequalities and discriminatory practices within our Church and society." #66A p. 92
The Methodist church also supports universal health care:
"Health care is a basic human right." #66Q p. 97
The Methodist church also opposes Bush's fiscal policies:
"Therefore, we recognize the responsibility of governments to develop and implement sound fiscal and monetary policies that provide for the economic life of individuals and corporate entities and that ensure full employment and adequate incomes with a minimum of inflation... We support measures that would reduce the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few." #67 p. 98
Bush's policies of giving tax breaks to rich people and non-working investors has been ineffective at creating jobs and more effective at increasing the concentration of wealth.
The Methodist book of discipline calls for the government to create jobs:
"Every person has the right to a job at a living wage. Where the private sector cannot or does not provide jobs for all, it is the responsibility of government to provide for the creation of such jobs." #67C p.99 Yet Bush has been cutting government spending and services at the Federal level. The Senate Democrats added aid to the states to the 2003 tax cuts, but that aid has not been sufficient to keep states, cities, and school boards from cutting jobs and services. Bush is counting on the private sector to create jobs, and as the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) shows - the private sector has not been creating jobs. At least not in this country.
Then there is the matter of the "war on Terror" and the un-related war in Iraq. Bush has advanced a "doctrine of pre-emption" which makes war the first resort at the very insinuation of a threat. By its own logic every country in the world should attack the United States in order to pre-empt our possible future attack upon them. On the other hand the Methodist church opposes war, violence, and lawlessness:
"We therefore urge the establishment of the rule of law in international affairs as a means of elimination of war, violence, and coercion in these affairs." #68G p. 103
A good Methodist "...is called upon to be a witness for Christ in the world, a light and leaven in society, and a reconciler in a culture of conflict. Each member is to identify with the agony and suffering of the world and to radiate and exemplify the Christ of hope." #220 p. 124
Of course, it is hard to tell what that means exactly, except it is fairly clear that George W. Bush has not been a reconciler as President."

[jellybelly]

4. Not Jesus lover, King David lover!

Christians worship Jesus, there's no way Bush follows the teachings of Jesus. Bush and most repugs are followers of Judaism, and the Old Testament. They are actually Jews in a weird way. (me not racist)

[unblock]

7. no WAY are you fobbing him off on us!

his actions and words bear no resemblance to judaism.
there is more to judaism than selective exerpts from the torah.

[mcscajun]

11. But there is a point there...

...these fundies follow far more Old Testament than New (and when they do, it's usually Paul and not Jesus they're citing).

So what, besides the obvious, can we call 'em?

I agree, the Jews shouldn't have to shoulder this burden, too. They've done their share and then some over the centuries.

[unblock]

18. but they don't follow much of the torah either

which, for instance, includes 633 commandments. they boast about 10 of them, and can't even abide by those. e.g., killing, coveting, graven images, adultery, just to name a few.

exerpting a few lines from the torah no more makes them jewish than exerpting a few lines out of constitution makes them law abiding.

[blondeatlast]

30. We really should start calling them "Paulists," (no one has a problem

with Lutherans); and while we are ati it, let's find out where they get those Holy Bibles that conveniently leave out the Book of Matthew!

[mrgorth]

40. Lutherans

What did you mean by this. I'm looking at the Lutheran Church and wondering what you're saying here.

[blondeatlast]

45. I mean no harm--it's as if they (Paulist)are another sect of Christianity.

I'm a Presbyterian, etc.

OTOH, that is indeed unfair to Paul.

[mrgorth]

47. I agree

I was raised Catholic. Are you saying that Lutherans are more "Paulist" than other denominations? Are Presbyterians less so? I'm curious because I think I'm anti-Paul.

[blondeatlast]

48. No--I'm speaking of terminology only.

I'm really not questioning anyone.

It was an analogy, nothing more.

[Lerkfish]

44. Actually, They're Levitical Paulists.....or, as I prefer Pharisees.

concerned with the law instead of forgiveness....but that's unfair to Paul, as well.

the point is, these are NOT religiously righteous people, these are people PRETENDING to be religious, so comparing them to true religious figures is an unfair comparison from the get go.

[crasmane]

41. Bush's type would have no trouble with the law,

but immense trouble with the prophets.
Put GW Bush in a room with Ezekiel, Hosea & Isiah and he'd choose to never open his mouth again as long as he lived.
The prophets were sent here to put people straight not through law, but through awareness of compassion. They were sent to wake up people's hearts.

[SharonAnn]

8. As in King David and Batsheba? Just asking.

[mslux]

10. Old Testament followers?

Please explain yourself. To say bushco are Jews is a severe insult to Jews. But then again, making the link between the repugs and Christianity insults Christians.

[jellybelly]

26. the repugs...

They aren't 'jews' as we know. The 'eye for an eye' is one example of judaism that repugs follow. They never quote Jesus. They are followers of ANCIENT Judaism, and the real Jews of today follow more of Jesus' teachings than actual so-called Christians. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm surprised nobody thought about this already.

and I also don't believe there are actual Jews anymore, (descendants from the Hebrew race). The Hebrews are non-existant now. People who are jewish technically aren't since being a jew means you are a hebrew. So when racists classify all jews as being a race I get really confused.

[blondeatlast]

31. The antics of the W.rong regime insults anyone with a moral compass,

regardless of their belief system (or doubt, or lack thereof).

[jbnow]

36. Better said "Old Testament God"

That god liked wars and told them ravage pillage and plunder. He hated homosexual men and liked smiting and so on.

People talk about the Koran being violent...I ask if they ever read the Old Testament!

But Jesus...Bush is no fan or follower of his teaching...and from what Jesus had to say about the Pharisees he'd have been no fan of Bush.

But...whatever Bush's issues...I don't see how "Christians" can see him as Christian.

[priller]

22. No, they're not followers of Judaism

and neither are they followers of Jesus. They simply use religion to justify their evil deeds.

[Lerkfish]

43. um...King David was not a war monger.....

he wrote the psalms and was beloved by God for his peaceful nature. He avoided conflict whenever possible and was forced into war. He fought when it was absolutely necessary (goliath being one example against the philistines)

maybe you need a different old testament example?

If anything, Clinton is more like King David, for having the inability to resist carnal temptations (Bathsheba).

[bling bling]

5. "Acting Christian" has nothing to do with "Being Christian"

Simply saying that you're a Christian is the only qualifier necessary, from what I've seen.

Some of the most outspokenly Christian people I know are the most hatefeul, racist, selfish, materialistic, un-Christian people I've ever met.

Typically the Christians who actually act Christian are the ones who don't go around talking about how Christian they are. At least that's been my experience with my friends and family.

[DieboldMustDie]

12. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,'...

will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

Matthew 7:21

[bling bling]

14. If that's true, I predict many freepers will be stunned

when they are turned away at the pearly gates.

[blondeatlast]

32. I slip with this, but I try to say "I like to believe I'm Christian," or

"I follow Christ."

I don't think it's up to me to decide that I am. It's a shorthand for my beliefs, but the proof is the practice. But I guess that's a "nuance," and the RadRights don't have time for such things.

Your last line is indicative of the biggest problem with these types of people--they haven't read Matthew, or their bizarre HB somehow left out an entire book.

[kedrys]

6. He started saying it, and the sheeple bought it. n/t

[bobbobbins]

9. He's also the Great Communicator

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. The Republican spin machine keeps saying it

and the fundie churches keep promoting the idea.

[proud patriot]

15. I have no clue

:shrug: I certainly don't think he walks the walk
of the faithful .

[blackangrydem]

16. During that famous debate during the 2000 GOP primaries

he said he favorite philosopher was Jesus Christ, then when pressed on it went on to say that he accepted him as his personal savior and it helped him change his life.

Although he caught a lot of flak from the media the fundies ate it up and haved loved him ever since.

[blondeatlast]

33. I remember, and UI wished at the time he would have been pressed

on it, but he wasn't.

OTOH, W.rong's "followers" wouldn't have been able to nuance Jesus' position on Iraq, poverty, hatred, either, so it would have been worthless for the most part.

[jbnow]

37. I was certain he gave that answer

because he didn't know any philosophers.

And for certain he doesn't follow the philosophy of Jesus...it's like he thinks what would Jesus do and then does the opposite.

[gulliver]

17. Anyone can do it.

That's the big problem with Christianity right now. There is no security, no authentication, no credential, no set of qualifications. Drape a cross on your neck, put a fish on your car, go to a church every so often, you're a Christian. And no one can say you aren't ... even if, like Bush, you aren't.

[leesa]

19. My brother (who is a recovering Fundie) says he has a personal testimony

of his acceptance of Christ posted somewhere and apparently that's all it took.

[blackangrydem]

24. Genuine acceptance of Jesus as your personal savior

IS all takes to be a Christian.

[hfojvt]

28. If it is genuine, it should show some fruit

Luke 6:45
However, there is a large strain of fundie "Christianity" with some set beliefs -
1) anti-tax and anti-social programs
2) anti-choice
3) pro- death penalty
4) anti separation of church and state
a) school vouchers
b) faith based social programs
c) abstinence education and "under god" Pledge
5) anti-gay
6) he says he prays and studies the Bible daily and goes to church weekly
7) anti-Islam and pro-Zionist

Bush falls in line with that, and Kerry did not, so his Catholicism was questioned. Bush would likely test as a Christian at www.worldviewweekend.com whereas I tested as a secular and a commie on economic issues.

[blondeatlast]

34. Now, they wouldn't try to deliberately skew the test, would they?

I can imagine even Dr. King and Bishop Tutu, maybe even the Pope would be godless commies in their book.

[jbnow]

38. But the fruit of the Spirit

is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
GAL 5:22,23

Wonder if right wingers...know any of that

I am looking at that list...and the only one might fit Bush is faithfulness...but not on spirit. But they do seem faithful to a neo-con sort of vision

[leftofthedial]

20. relentless PR

claiming that he is

about a thousand "halo" pictures in the media

A few hundred bought-and-paid-for conmen christian preachers

[priller]

21. You know, Christians as a group, are the worst judge

of character. Think of all these people who are big-time, famous Christian leaders, and most of them are so obviously rotten it makes you wonder how their followers can be so blind. Especially when Jesus tells his followers to judge leaders "by their fruit" -- that is, by the things they DO, not what they say. But, unfortunately, it seems like all Bush or any other leader has to do is simply say, "I believe!" and millions will blindly follow.

[blondeatlast]

35. True that, judged by his "fruit," W.rong becomes a

miserable failure.

[Endangered Specie]

23. Good Propoganda knows no bounds.

[El Biggo Doggo]

25. A lot of DRY DRUNKS do this...

they grab onto something that makes them feel strength in the face of their overpowering addiction.
OVERPOWERING.
And when someone is denied what they are addicted to, don't they lash out? Don't they WANT the world to end? Wouldn't the Rapture, to an alkie who couldn't drink, seem like a literal Godsend?
BTW: why hasn't anybody talked about the twins needing an intervention?

[LynnTheDem]

29. Same as he got the false rep for being a cowboy on a ranch.

Public Relations firm, the same one poppa bush used, the same one that came up with the "incubator babies" lie in 1999 and the purple plastic "people shredder" in 2003, fixed bush up with "christianity" and his "ranch" right before the 2000 campaign.

And only rightwignnuts are big enough rubes to fall for the bullshit.

[tom_paine]

39. The same way Hitler did (at least until he was so entrenched in power

he could afford to toss aside the Christians who believed he and his policies were "ordained by God")

The very same way. A self-referencing propaganda machine with the acpability to launder ANY lie into "conventional wisdom".

And, at the time, as the Bushevik Propaganda Machine is now, the Nazi Proaganda Machine was ALSO unprecedented in it's scope and power in Human History.

[Bridget Burke]

42. It's the way he was packaged.

He ran for Governor after the Texas Republican party was taken over by far-Right "Christians". From the beginning, part of his attaction was--he's a "Godly" man.

There is a strain of Christianity that holds that you are either saved or not. Generally, those who do well in life are demonstrating that they are saved. "Doing well" is not the same as "doing good".

[Cheswick2.0]

46. it really isn't up to any of us to decide who is or is not a Christian

That is for God to decide. All we can really say is that he is not following any path that we recognize or that he missed some lessons along the way.

PS...... Paul wrote some of the most beautiful verse in the Bible. I hate to see the kind of internet, pop theology which dismisses Paul. What I know is that some of Paul is misinterpreted and picked apart to make his words a way to bash "sinners". He was only human and a man of his times. So he wasn't perfect, however he has a LOT to say which is valuable.

Bush is the kind of "Christian" who is looking very hard for validation through religion. There was a picture once of him praying and he had his face all scrunched up as if he were looking for Jesus behind his eyelids. He makes me think of several woman I have met in my life who joined the Seventh Day Adventist church after living chaotic lives being strippers and all the relationship nonsense and drinking etc.. that goes along with that life.

These are women who I met at two different times in my life. I have always thought it was interesting that they both joined the same fundamentalist, very paternalistic denomination as a way to start dealing with the chaos in their lives. I expect that both will someday leave that denimination and move on to some church which is more intelectual and open minded.

So Bush if he is genuinely trying to follow the Christian religion is very early in the process and is getting some really bad advice from some really bad theologians.

[wpbpete78]

49. by giving,...

HOARDS of faith based tax dollars to wingnuts like robertson, fallwell and bob jones univ.