Anti-War Left Isn't Going Away

[dreissig]

The anti-war left is alive and well and motivated. We're not going away! Iowans failed to rise to the occasion today, but it's their loss. They won't be taken as seriously in the future.

There's no way that Kerry's high negatives among Democrats can be ignored. As bad as the war gets, Kerry voted for it. Americans have longer attention spans than what has been suggested by the voting in Iowa. Kerry's not going to pick up from Republicans the votes he lost among Democrats.

Iowa will be shown to be an anomaly. Op-ed columns will be written about how "misleading" the results were. Iowans will ask themselves how they got it so wrong.

[poskonig]

1. The war ended last year, dude.

We in an occupation now, and most of the candidates (sans Kucinich and Sharpton) have similar ideas.

I opposed the war too btw. While it is easy to want to blame someone for the war (and I too have done this), it is unfair to blame Democrats for Bush's fuckup.

[lcordero]

500 dead and almost 9,000 wounded

Most of them after May 1st?

[cprise]

9. I choose to include 10s of thousands of Iraqi casualties

... in that calculation.

The anti-war folk have all had their downer, sinking-stomach moment when we went to war (and all the betrayals that led upto it). The election is hotschop and cracker jacks by comparison. We made the justification for war a major issue at the national level when just a while ago we thought it might never get discussed. The fascist bumper stickers are peeling off and not being replaced. The neocons ideas are losing currency.

The first time I donated to Dean, I thought: "Atta boy, he's pushing them in the right direction!"

And just LOOK at all those endorsements in the party. If nothing else, he's converting a large chunk of the political class to our side.

[cprise]

5. We are officially still at war

It's now time to blame Democrats for enabling the war.

This is our chance. After the primaries, it's root for the Democrat or stay home.

[Mattforclark]

8. We were never officially at war

haven't been for 50 or 60 years. Take that one out of Mosely-Braun's playbook.

[cprise]

10. A technicality

If our leaders choose to believe in the war, then the people must still duck-and-cover or at least petrify in front of the TV with fear whenever they get moody.

[shance]

16. So I guess the 500 that have died are not legitimate?

Some of the posts tonight are truly breath taking.

[Mattforclark]

39. Did I say that?

No. I was merely pointing out a minor inaccuracy.

[Clark Can WIN]

12. How do you suppose rubbing peoples noses in it would play

in the general election? Do you want Bush out or not?

[lcordero]

20. It's a lot more important to me that this

NEVER EVER happens in my lifetime again:mad:

[Walt Starr]

27. There's always a third option

Always

[Polemonium]

22. Can we wonder where Kerry et al.

were during the last few years, because it sure wasn't standing up to * in any substantial way that I could see. I'm told I have representatives in the house and the senate, yet I don't feel represented.

[Terwilliger]

35. Did BUSH tell you that?

You believe everything he says? Well, why are you here then?

You say it's "Bush's fuckup" I've seen no conclusive evidence that Democrats did everything they could to stop it.

[cthrumatrix]

37. it's not the war...it's the lies and deception for the war.

[SangamonTaylor]

2. anyone but bush! n/t

[Mattforclark]

3. That's right

I'm anti-war, I'm left, I'm for Clark, and I'm not going away.

[The Magistrate]

4. Wear It In Good Health, Sir

The effort to keep up the game face will prove wearing quickly.

The "anti-war left" consistently over-rates its strength, in both numbers and acuity of analysis. It routinely over-states its case, to the point that most people dismiss it as mere chatter, even on occassions when it might be correct.

Of far importance to rank and file Democrats is the defeat of the criminals of the '00 Coup, and the only thing that concerns them is their personal calculation of which candidate is most likely to succeed in the general election.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[shance]

15. Wish that 2000 Coup showed some importance to Kerry

who has told us Dems to get over it and stop crying in our "teacups". Hows that for someone who connects with the people?

[iowapeacechief]

6. Should have backed Kucinich...

...who actually led the antiwar Democrats in Congress.

[shance]

14. But gosh, now hes supporting Edwards

What happened to the man of principle??

[goodhue]

36. Statement of Dennis Kucinich

http://www.kucinich.us/pressreleases/pr_011904b.php

Kucinich: This Will Go to Convention
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 19, 2004

Democratic Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich had been showing at 3 percent in the polls in Iowa, but topped 15 percent or more in many precincts in order to win 1.3 percent of the total delegates. Had he failed to top a surprising 15 percent, Kucinich would have finished with zero delegates as expected. The polls did little better at predicting the results for the other candidates in the Iowa caucuses, and tonight's results may have raised more questions than they answered about the final outcome of the Democratic nominating process.

"This is the beginning of the campaign," said Kucinich. "We've got 49 states left to go. The media had long ago predicted the winner of the entire process and even the loser of the general election, and tonight's caucuses have the pundits scratching their collective scalps in bewilderment. I moved from ninth place to fifth and won delegates despite the 15 percent threshold.

"The longtime poll leader dropped to third, which some pundits are erroneously crediting to Dr. Dean's status as an anti-war candidate. Dr. Dean did not consistently oppose the initial stages of this war and he has said that he will keep our troops in Iraq for years.

"As I climb higher in New Hampshire and each successive state, and as the situation in Iraq continues to worsen, Democratic support for peace will be reflected in my campaign's success. I predict a brokered convention in July. By the end of this month my campaign will have raised over $10 million, including matching funds, and I'm just getting started.

"As part of my strategy in the Iowa caucuses, I worked out an arrangement with Senator Edwards that may have allowed each of us to pick up a few more delegates. Our supporters, of course, ultimately chose their own courses of action. But none were left with their only strategic choice being leaving their caucus and going home. John and I are friends and I wish him the best. But we have 49 states left to go, and we're each on our own."

For more information: http://www.kucinich.us

[HFishbine]

24. I'm sure glad I didn't

I like a lot of Kucinich's positions and a strong ant-war position is important to me. I'm sure glad I didn't support Kucinich though. I would have been very dissapointed to have my guy telling me to support a pro-war candidate.

[bluestateguy]

7. Sounds like sour grapes to me

n/t

[Clark Can WIN]

11. Those same Iowans you are dissing now identified themselves as anti-war

This just smacks of seriously sour, sour grapes. Kerry won this one and your guy tanked percentage and expectations wise. Time to move on to the next contest.

PS......... I'm sure glad the anti-war left is not going away since I consider myself to be a part of it.

[hlthe2b]

13. I sincerely hope not!

I have respect for Kerry but am still baffled by his explanation on his IWR vote. I think he made a big mistake that should be admitted as a mistake. Nonetheless, it seems Iowans looked at the full package and were pleased with what Kerry brings to the race-- particularly given his increasing efforts to speak against Bush's BS.

[dusty64]

23. Renouncing the vote

would go a long way to forgiving, but I'm still waiting. Of course ANY Democrat (except one) will receive my vote in November with varying degrees of enthusiasm. Everyone makes mistakes and admitting one was lied to by our regime with an description of those lies could be a powerful weapon against the chimp. Such a statement would be viewed by me as a sign of leadership, which candidate will have the guts to do it.

[iowapeacechief]

29. You got it!

You summed it up for this Iowan, except that I do respect Kerry's IWR vote (while opposing it) just I did for my own Senator Harkin. Both have admitted a mistake to some extent, but not enough yet.

To the extent it reflects the truly antiwar part of John Kerry, I am pleased with his strong bounce out of Iowa.

I am a Kucinich county coordinator. We were three short of viability, and six of the seven of us went for the Edwards alliance. Otherwise, I'd have gone with Kerry since Uncommitted wasn't possible.

Our nine delegates went:

3 Dean (19 + 1 Kucinich)
3 Kerry (20 no changes)
2 Edwards (8 Edwards + 6 Kucinich + 1 undecided)
1 Gephardt (10 plus one undecided)

Our two "Edwards" delegates are actually one each for Edwards and Kucinich.

[Clark4VotingRights]

17. And I think that General Clark is the most formidable candidate

we have in the anti-war left.

Give him a road test. Kick his tires...

Thank you for your kind attention.

[Iverson]

18. dreissig, have a coffee on me (and advice)

or maybe even two :donut: :donut:

Of course the anti-war left isn't going to go away. I assume that you count yourself in that number.

Expecting to win is another matter. You should expect to have a long and proud string of political losses because you are proceeding from principle when it comes to killing people in countries that haven't attacked us.

Face it: here on oh-so-left DU there is a substantial component of people who accept the idea that military invasion and occupation is peachy-keen. This number increases as you move rightward on the political spectrum. For people whose news comes from the corporate media, it's worse.

Kerry and Iowa are beside the point. Your more productive focus is with our fellow discussants who want a war party with a "D" and who still tell themselves that that's a liberal in the mirror.

Now rest up; there's a lot of work to do.

[dreissig]

30. Humphrey 1968

Out of loyalty to Lyndon Johnson, Hubert Humphrey called the Vietnam War "glorious" - a characterization that cost him the support of the antiwar Left. A lifelong liberal, he went on to be defeated by the uninspiring Richard Nixon. Riots outside the Democratic convention in Chicago made Nixon seem steady, predictable reliable.

As a loyal Democrat, I hope my party is not foolish enough to repeat their mistake in 1968. Voters, especially young people, were unimpressed with Humphrey's liberal record. His support for the war handed the election to Nixon.

[Iverson]

43. I know.

I was young at the time but do remember.
I had a McCarthy flower on my bicycle.

As to whether the Dems are foolish enough to repeat the same mistake, all I can do is direct you to www.ndol.org and pass you a box of tissues.

[Indiana Democrat]

19. "Iowa will be shown to be an anomaly."

No it won't...It will be the norm.

[Lexingtonian]

21. more high horse moralism

And Denial is not a river in Egypt, I see.

The American People sometimes approve of very nasty stuff by great majorities. They do accept that they may have been wrong, in time, and will regret and try to atone for wrongs committed. That is a remarkable attribute for a people. But they don't like people telling them that their moral standards are predicately low and wrong- they don't accept any group posing as Moral Authority. (Though people posing as messengers from such an Authority are variously treated.)

I'm not sure that polling and primary elections will bear out your theory that Iowa was some kind of aberration. It's All-American in the most conventional sense: far from any borders, quite evenly split by two settlement cultural/linguistic continua- Northern (Democratic) and Midlands (Republican).

Maybe they're just not doctrinally righteous anti-snobs.

[dreissig]

28. High Horse Moralism

What you are calling high horse moralism is what I call bedrock values. There's an issue of practical politics here that so-called "moderates" are ignoring. We of the anti-war Left are not locked into the Democrats. That's the mistake that caused the riots at the 1968 Chicago convention.

For whatever reason, the Democratic party chose to ignore the anti-war left. Then, as now, we were dismissed as youthful idealists with no practical judgement. We were accused then, as now, of high horse moralism.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Fear won in Iowa.

They voted for "politics as usual". The same play it safe politics that put Bush in the WH. They actually believe that a pro-war candidate can win against a pro-war president. The DLC is jubilant.

[ellie]

38. I agree with you

My heart sank when I realized that Americans will vote for politics as usual. As an anti-war leftie, I can't believe people would vote for someone who voted for the war in Iraq. I guess I am either in denial or living in a fantasy land. Killing 500 Americans and 20,000 Iraqis for no good reason bothers me. What really bothers me is how the majority of Americans seem to accept it as ok.

[mdmc]

26. My girlfriend thinks that

only a pro war dem can win in 2004. So do my parents. When the three of them agree, they correctly predict most election outcomes. I support Dean/Kucinich, but prefer to unseat Bush.

[copithorne]

32. Wesley Clark!!

I invite all people who opposed and oppose this idiotic war to join me and Michael Moore and George McGovern in supporting Wesley Clark.

Do not believe the RNC/Drudge lies saying that Wesley Clark supported the war. He never did. He speaks clearly and forthrightly that the war was a mistake. He has a clear vision about why it was a mistake.

Kerry and Edwards are still stuck saying that the war was the right policy, but poorly executed. I don't agree with them. I want a candidate who repudiates this war. Wesley Clark is the man who can do it, with the authority to make the case to the American people.

Peaceniks! Join us with the General!

[robbedvoter]

31. Agred. We got so many new people coming to Clark last night

that it was clear what was happening. The war has to be an issue in 2004 and Clark can make a good case for why it was wrong to start it and how to get out of it. Lots of stuff on it here:
http://robbedvoter.forclark.com/story/2004/1/4/183557/8699

[Terwilliger]

33. I think Gep's big loss IS an indication of some of the anti-war sentiment

because I think people were really hard hit when they saw Gep in the Rose Garden undercutting Daschle and everyone else.

[goodhue]

34. very true

DK will be taking the bring our troops home message all the way to Boston! Ahead of the pack when it comes to the issues that matter.

http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

On edit: only your subject line is true. The slam against Iowa is sour grapes and not accurate.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

40. Dean didn't vote against the war

Dean just ran for president and gave speeches. His speeches are so different than his record, I don't think as many people are buying it as expected.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

42. I share that sentiment..

Not only his record, but even his stated policies(well depends which statement) are centrist at best.

TWL

[jmaier]

41. the anti-war left is important

but it is going to have to entertain the question of whether or not a visceral, litmus test evaluation of the candidates is rational. At this point, we are where we are -- it's important to find a candidate that has the credibility to win and the desire and capability to fix the short-term mess in Iraq and address the longer term, perhaps more global issues of U.S. credibility and international relations.

I think you can pretty credibly argue that of the Democratic candidates only Lieberman and perhaps Gephardt would have pursued an IWR-like policy. Well one is gone and the other is fading so in that respect the anti-war movement was successful.

Now it's time to take a broader look at what's important and pick the best candidate to end the hegemony of the shrub. Whether progressive activists want to face it or not, any of the remaining contenders is such a strong positive alternative to the current mis-Administration that we must be smart about selecting the strongest contender for Nov '04.