Michael Moore dismisses "conspiracy theories"

[wyldwolf]

By way of the Bartcop forum...

Rolling Stone: Do you give any credence to these Internet conspiracy theories about the voting machines in Ohio?

"Moore: Nah. And I don't have a double standard here. I've stressed since 2000 that Gore won the popular vote. Now, even if Kerry won Ohio, clearly more people across the country wanted Bush than Kerry. So there you go. Deal with it..."

http://www.rollingstone.com/poymoore?rnd=1103554827820&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040

Disclaimer: I'm a believer in the reported voter fraud in Ohio

[Placebo]

1. Well if Michael Moore says it, it's GOTTA be true! It's just GOTTA!

:eyes:

[greenohio]

15. Micahel Moore is betraying us...isn't he?

Just like Kerry?

[0007]

18. Get a fucking grip!

[greenohio]

21. I see, if John Kerry says it, its betrayal. If MM says it, it must be true

the logic is overwhelming.

[0007]

28. In rosey colored glasses, 'eh?

[Placebo]

39. Exactly.

:crazy:

[wyldwolf]

41. my point in starting the thread. Glad someone got it.

[NYCGirl]

42. Except that Michael Moore is not a representative of the Democratic party,

and John Kerry certainly is. Michael Moore is a private citizen.

[wyldwolf]

45. but during a recent thread, all manner of DU'ers swore...

..that Moore speaks for them.

..and Moore, being a registered Democrat and in the public eye, is certainly considered by many to be a rep of the party.

[NYCGirl]

46. Al From's remarks aside, Moore's a filmmaker. He's an artist.

He's not running for public office.

[greenohio]

47. So as an artist, he can't say things that are wrong?

Hard to follow you here.

[Geek_Girl]

57. Michael Moore is entitled to his opinion

Just like you are entitled to your opinion. He's not a public official he's an entertainer. His job is not to look out for our best interest but to entertain us.

John Kerry was running for office as Representative of the American people. His job is to look out for our best interest.

[secedeeconomically]

2. My friends sometime reality is a bitch, but

Moore has a point

[HEyHEY]

4. You and Moore are both part of it!

Some slimy conspiracy. I know you all have strange meetings in some darkend cave in West Virginia. Where you, Moore, Bush, and 30 elvis impersonators determine the fate of the world.

We're sick of being part of your little game...the revoloution WILL be televised!

[secedeeconomically]

5. Hey how do you? Did elvis number 13 talk?

That bastered lol

[nodictators]

22. Moore has a point??? No, he has tens of millions of dollars!

Now, he's the well-dressed Plutocrat, one of the landed gentry, and no threat to the Powers That Be.

We hardly got to know you, Michael.

[Kill Radicalism Now]

56. Moore DOES have a point (I LIVE in Ohio)

He's right. Even though I admit that fraud did take place in Ohio, every place I've read involves only a fraction of the 100,000+ votes that were for Bush. Even with all the fraud fixed, Kerry would still not have won Ohio. THAT is the point. It is the sad truth that a lot of Bible Belt Brainwashed Bushies still live in Ohio.

Hell, we elected the most incompetent Republican governor...

[henslee]

3. Despite Moore's everymanism qualities, he is not immune to the celebrity

bubble and all the trappings that go with it. Very possible he does not know WTF is going on.

[PaganPreacher]

13. Doesn't know?

So many DU-bees say that they are sending MM every little bit of information that they find, invent, or imagine about "election fraud," there is no way that he couldn't know what is going on.

If MM could make a buck from "election fraud," he'd be all over it.

More likely, he is separating the beer from the foam, and has figured out that there's no "there," there.



The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[tuvor]

6. If he said he believed there was fraud

he'd be even more maligned by freepers (and by virtue of that, the mainstream), except this time as a conspiracy theorist. So who knows what he really thinks?

I'm sure the popularity and fame are great, but I'm sure it's a bitch, too.

[NGU]

10. The key word is "IF"

We don't know what he is really thinking. He could be worried that we won't be able to gather all the evidence of fraud before Jan. 20th and he doesn't want to tip his hand too soon. I believe in MM and I'm sure he has evidence that he will show us when he is ready.

[pleiku52cab]

7. Hate to tell you MM

the question is how many people REALLY voted for shrub and how much of his vote ACTUALLY came from robotic alterations and additions.

[PaganPreacher]

14. Damn those Rovian robots!

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Kolesar]

8. these stories improve the chances of our elections being made fair

We need headlines to show how screwed up our elections are--whether this one was stolen or not.

[Skink]

9. Well accept for the safe state vote padding for the mandate...

he's got a point..
Kerry won the popular vote too.

[kk897]

40. Nice handle, Skink. I think I know right away where you stand.

Wish there really were a Skink scuttling around the Florida swamps fighting even in his addled way for some kind of justice. (Was sad there wasn't more of him in the latest).

[zulchzulu]

11. I agree with MM...to a degree...and know where he's coming from

If Bush has win by a lesser amount (yes, the voting was rigged), then we would have a better leg to stand on with the results possibly being overturned.

We will never be able to count unverifiable, untraceable votes. Since 30% of those that vote in 2004 used electronic voting and used various flavors of voting techniques/database storage, the only way to really see if Kerry won would be to do the entire Election over again without electronic voting.

And guess what...that's not going to happen.

If Kerry had been within less than a million votes, we would see a much different story.

[wyldwolf]

12. good points

[THUNDER HANDS]

16. is it possible to steal 5 million votes?

I mean, nationwide, how many votes do you think Kerry won by, if he did win?

Bush supposedly won by 3.5 million, so assuming that if Kerry won, it wasn't by one vote nationwide, Bush would have to have stolen at least 4 million votes.

Is that even possible?

[robbedvoter]

17. 6 million votes were spoiled nationwide in 2000 - pre-Diebold

according to a MIT study. You tell me what is the max of votes a Diebild machine can steal. Also, assuming there is a max - what happens when the machine goes over? Does it smoke like the computers in Star Trek and asks for 'imput-need imput"?
The only logical question here is why wouldn't they steal it?

[THUNDER HANDS]

19. did they all get spoiled for the same candidate though?

that's what you're suggesting would have to happen for Kerry to have magically won natonwide by anything more than the margin the Washington state governor's race.

[robbedvoter]

23. No one found out. But the " glitches" this time all went for W

So, that answers your question. If you believe in "natural spoliage/glitches" - riddle me this. Where are the glitches favoring Kerry and how do you think you know the reality of the result as 30% vote is unverifiable?

[ArkDem]

20. input

[robbedvoter]

24. Thanks, Arkansas Project for correcting my spelling.

Too late to edit, so, you win. I am also flatered that my post got you out of lurking for a non-Clinton/Clark topic. Does it mean I have a personal editor on DU now? I certainly need it.

[ArkDem]

30. Anything I can do to help...

[robbedvoter]

43. While at it, whom/what do you support? It's conspicuously missing

from your posts that are exclusively hit jobs.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

54. LOL, excellent observation, ArkDem's hit jobs serve two purposes:

being a grammar storm trooper to display his "superiority" to us DU'ers and falsely inflating his post count.

BTW, I've never seen him say one positive thing about any democratic candidate/legislator. MKJ

[nodictators]

27. Is it possible for a candidate to get 4,200 votes in a precinct with...

... only about 650 registered voters?

Well, Bush did that too. So crooked touchscreen machines and criminally altered databases would have have no problem in bringing in 3, or 4, or 5 million votes from cyberspace for Bush.

[LisaL]

32. When you count using a computer-

WTF do you mean, is it even possible?
When you have paperless computers counting votes, anything is possible.

[WillyT]

36. Well... 100,000 Votes Times 50 States Is 5 Million Votes, So...

you tell me.

:shrug:

[Cadence]

60. It's not hard to steal 3.5 million or 5 million

or even 10 million if you have access to the central tabulator software and can switch the names in the fields.

If Kerry had a 3.5 million vote lead which say put him at 51% to Bush 48% and the exit polls were stating this.
Go into central tabulator software...switch the names now Bush is ahead by 51% and Kerry is only at 48% ....those darn exit polls were off..maybe we should get rid of them. Done.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. MM makes good movies

That is about it. Politcally he has no clue as is illustrated by his support of Nader because he couldn't support Clinton's VP, but could support Clinton's trojan horse Clark. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

59. Talk About Needing A Clue...

:eyes:

[manhattanite]

26. Michael Moore has been Republicanized.

He shaved, bought a suit, and now he says this crap. He made a lot of money off of Fahrenheit 9/11 and now he wants to enjoy Bush's delicious tax cuts for the wealthy.

[DemDogs]

48. Don't think that's fair (n/t)

[seekinguniqueness]

58. Actually, I have always thought that Michael Moore

was out to further the cause of Michael Moore

Nothing more, nothing less.

If the Dems were running things, he would attack them too.

[FuckYouBush_com]

29. Votes

Regardless of who people voted for, I believe Moore had a major impact in motivating people to get off their ass.

F911 was brilliant, and he deserves whatever money he makes... even though he donates most of it, and the production company profited more than he.

It will be interesting to see his Part 2 movie and where he goes with it. We all know there will be a lot of content in the next few years... if we are still here!

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[demwing]

33. Rules is Rules

I don't give a damn what Michael Moore thinks about it...

If Bush cheated, he gets the boot and Kerry wins - regardless of what the majority want.

Fuck it.

We dealt with that last time, let them deal with it this time.

I am not concerned with HOW we get rid of Bush, as long as its by the book, legal, and final.

Fuck the high road. ALL roads lead to Rome.

[PaganPreacher]

38. I hope you're not holding your breath.

This election is over.

Bush won.

There is no mechanism by which John Kerry will see the inside of the White House, unless the President invites him and the missus over for supper.

If Rep. Conyers convinces a Senator to contest Ohio's electors, and the Ohio Secretary of State simultaneously submits a second set of electors to Congress, the two houses of Congress will vote on accepting one of the groups of electors. Since both houses have Republican majorities, all of this Ohio stuff is nothing but a two hour layover on the Re-election Express. Not even worth rescheduling the Inaugural Ball.

If Bush is impeached and removed after the Inauguration, the new president would be Cheney, not Kerry.

My read: Senator Kerry knows all of this, and he knows that he may as well go snowboarding for Christmas break.


The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. The KEY here is PROOF, for both sides...

So far, people have yet to PROVE that this election has been tampered with. So far, people have yet to DISPROVE that this election has been tampered with. So what am I left with? Speculation that chimpy MAY or MAY NOT have been legitimately re-elected, with a comment by the CEO of Diebold that he was going to help Bush win the election. I can speculate BBV on DU all I want, but I can't prove it. On the same token, I still can't respect Bush's re-election as legitimate because I'm not sure that it was legitimate.

[bobbyboucher]

35. If they were going to steal it, do you think they'd leave it close?

No, they wouldn't. It would have to be a clear victory for them to get away with it. No way they could endure close scrutiny in a number of states.

The fraud was massive and multi-directional. They pulled out all the stops.

[Zen Democrat]

37. The "popular vote" was stolen in the Red States.

Very easy for the Republican poll workers in Texas and Georgia and Oklahoma, etc. to pump up the vote. Just a few extra votes in overwhelmingly Red precincts across the country would yield millions of votes.

I'm convinced this was done in Texas.

[robbedvoter]

44. Not exclusively though. I am sure the Diebolds in Ca, Pa, NH et al

did their syphoning. The exit polls in Pa had kerry 20 pts ahead of W - and it came close. Similar discrepancies in New Hampshire.
Sometimes the states were not tipped, but popular vote was certainly royally goosed.

[Zinfandel]

49. Yeah, Rove would NEVER think of padding the vote...

with about 40 million votes recorded on electronic voting machines with no paper trail, owned by republicans who pledged to Bush, serviced by the same republicans, operated by the same republicans and the software developed by the same republicans...

No way to verify where the votes actually went except what the republican owned machines tell us...No, Rove would NEVER think of cheating!!!!

[agincourt]

50. I would have more faith,

in exit polling than anything else.

[AntiCoup2K4]

51. Won't Der Fuhrer From boot you out of the club for quoting Michael Moore??

:evilgrin:

[wyldwolf]

52. no, but Karl Marx might be a bit upset at you...

...for associating with Democrats.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clarkie1]

55. Way to go Michael; my respect for you just went up a bit more