Should the Democrats all get behind immediate withdrawal from Iraq?

[genius]

[donheld]

1. Sad as it is do we have a right to withdraw?

We went over there and tore the place up. Is it really right to leave it to others to fix our mess?

[Sandpiper]

7. Do you actually believe that our continued presence there

Is going to make anything better?

The war for hearts and minds is already lost.

[donheld]

14. No i don't

but i also don't think we have a right to tear up a country and walk away. Maybe if we begged forgiveness for tearing up the place, then others would be willing to help.

[0007]

27. No problem there, just get the paid assassin out of the country

Bring the troops home Today!!

[tk2kewl]

2. Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely apposed to this war. But...

I don't think we can just pack up and leave Iraq in its current state. There needs to be a plan that brings in the UN and Arab nations.

[Worst Username Ever]

6. Agreed. It is too late to just pick up and leave, unfortunately.

Now that it is destabalized and without any real functional government, it really COULD become a threat to the US. Nice work, George. CREATE a threat, then talk about how we are conquering it.

on edit: assuming we can't get the UN or other nations to take over for us. But I don't see that happening. So, we stay.

[LittleClarkie]

24. Yep, we created it -- we need to try and clean it up

but I have no faith in the current government's ability to do that. What they need to do, they will do badly. I want us to clean up our mess there (it seems selfish to just say "sorry about the mess... umm.. see ya" and then run out) but I have a sinking feeling we will end up pulling out before the job is done anyway.

Even if Kerry had gotten in, he wouldn't have been able to pull out fast enough for some people. He'd have ended up staying there for a while too. The difference would have been that I could have trusted Kerry to do what needed to be done there, and then get the flock out asap.

The Bush admin blasted Kerry for his 4-year goal, then Rummy turns around and says the same thing right after the election. Yeah, thanks Rummy.

[Jesus H. Christ]

3. No, we have to stay in Iraq.

If we leave, the NVA will sweep through Iraq and communism will take over all the countries of South East Asia like dominoes.

[itzamirakul]

9. What communism?

NVA? Clue me...

[Worst Username Ever]

10. I think it was sarcasm/drawing a parallel to another useless war (nam)

[itzamirakul]

16. Ohhh....OK...Duh! n/t

[Yupster]

22. If we do leave, the people

who worked with us, hundreds of thousands of them will be treated worse than the Cambodians were by Pol Pot.

If we do decide to leave, we at least need to get these people and their families out ahead of us.

I wouldn't expect any mercy to be shown to the "collaberators" and I don't want to be in any way responsible for hundreds of thousands of good people getting their heads sawed off.

[sportndandy]

4. In my dreams

The only thing the democrats have ever agreed on is common hatred of super-chimp.

[JHBowden]

5. U.N. in, U.S. out.

The world has the resources for this problem; we do not.

[ohtransplant]

8. Agreed.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Stabilizing Iraq and getting out will be sticky but worth doing.

What Americans (especially those on the right) have to realize is Iraqis probably don't want the kind of democracy we want them to have. The results may even be distasteful but Iraqis should be allowed to run their own country.

[Disturbed]

12. The Solution.

Kill the majority of the population and enslave those that a left based on the Warsaw Ghetto model via Falluja.

[roenyc]

13. we need to leave fast but

we must train their people. and of course leave some of ours. the Iraqis need to have an army trained away from Iraq. so they dont keep getting blown up.

the people need to be put to work re-building. man he screwed up so bad. but if the men are busy building homes and schools and making money they might see a light at the end of this misery.

and maybe they should get rid of president puppet. but we are not going anywhere. this is Bush's Iraq. bushraq. freedom is on the march after all. and die or vote will happen in January no matter how many people die in order to have that privilege.

then they can be just like us!

[El Supremo]

11. We aren't going to bring peace to Iraq...

but rather than pulling out and having the factions kill each other, we should get Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan and Turkey to go in and, if necessary, divide the country up. But an independent Kurdistan is a must.

[burn the bush]

15. the main reason we had to stay was to avoid civil war

I think we can pretty well say that it can't get too much worse than what we have accomplished so far.

[welshTerrier2]

17. the only course is leaving ...

with every tick of the second hand, hatred grows for the U.S. ... this is true not just in Iraq, not just in the Middle East, but all over the world ...

the U.S. clearly cannot, and will not, ever succeed in Iraq ... even if you believe we have an obligation to help now that bush created such a mess, it just doesn't matter ...

the danger to us is with our continued presence ... that we may be leaving a "wounded animal" to attack us is true; that all we will do by staying longer is further antagonizing it is also true ...

it's also important to understand this central theme: the reason we are in Iraq is not to help the Iraqis ... and it's not to help bring democracy to the Middle East ... do you really believe bush and his corporate neo-con friends are there for such noble goals ... the mission is purely and simply to exploit Iraq for corporate gains ... and if you think the Iraqis hate the U.S. now, just wait until the real exploitation begins ... there can never be peace or stability in Iraq while American troops are stationed there ...

no matter what obligation you know believe we have, there is no way to succeed ... the only course is leaving ...

[wyldwolf]

18. say you had a teenager that went into a department store...

... and proceeded to tear the place to hell. Caused real damage. Hundreds... thousands of dollars worth.

What do you do? Bring your child home and pretend it never happened?

Hire someone else to clean the mess up?

Or do you somehow make your child pay restitution? He broke it. He has a moral obligation to at least help fix it.

Anything less is irresponsible.

[welshTerrier2]

29. but but but ...

we're not "cleaning up the mess" ... we're making a much bigger mess ...

if you really want to recognize the U.S. obligation to Iraq, how about calling for a withdrawal of American troops and an infusion of humanitarian aid ... we've destroyed their water systems; we've poisoned the country with depleted uranium; the streets are not safe and free elections are a joke ... do you think it just might be possible that anyone who "gets elected" will be viewed as a U.S. puppet ???

the one thing i agree with in your post was this statement:

somehow make your child pay restitution ... with the proper focus on the word "somehow", we agree ... but military has not worked and will never work ... find another way to help repair Iraq ... when your child does damage in a department store, occupying the store for as long as he wants to is not a solution ...

[Sparkly]

19. It's such a difficult question.

All along this horrible course, there have been Democrats screaming that there were possibilities to ameliorate and eventually, maybe, solve the crisis this invasion created. Each time BushCo had ignored the advice, the situation has deteriorated and the options have become fewer.

I DO think BushCo is trying to achieve what they used to call "cut and run." They are *almost* at the point Nixon was when John Kerry said "pick a date and get out" -- everybody knows there's no military solution, they finally start to admit it, and the political situation is fubar. We're very close to that. And what they would LOVE is for the Democrats and its Liberal Peacenik Wild-Eyed Fringe to be the scapegoats. (Even now, some idiots -- usually too young to remember Vietnam -- claim that we could have achieved victory and created a separate and free South Vietnam if only the big bad peace protestors hadn't pressured the poooooor widdle US administration to pull out!)

(I expect some will spin it that way anyway. It's amazing how quick they've become at rewriting events, and the Freeper types are always so busy reading the rewrites of what already happened, they apparently don't have time to read CURRENT newspapers to see it unfolding for themselves.)

I predict the elections will happen in January -- by "happen," I mean some people will cast some vote. If three people do, and one of them is Sunni, they'll declare it a Great Victory for Democracy and Freedom and start the draw-down. They'll prop up whoever wins (hell, they'll probably select whoever wins) and provide just enough of a bare "peace-keeping" force to say we're being responsible.

It's that or a draft, imho. (Although if there's another attack here, they may get support for that.)

I used to be able to see an end to this -- now I don't, except one that involves the whole region by necessity, and probably also Europe by necessity. Necessity = it's so far gone, so threatening, that the people of those countries support involvement.

And we will look like the utter fools BushCo and their sheeple have made us.

[slay]

20. We never shoulda been there, the Iraqis hate us- YES we should leave!

BushCo LIED to us all about Iraq and now OUR family members over there are supposed to pay with their lives? No way absolutely not.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Is there a way to secure the place without our continued presence?

Because if there is, I'd be 100% behind withdrawl. Also, they should install whatever kind of government that they want, but I doubt that, that is a totalitarian regime.

[RafterMan]

23. No

but they need a clear plan with full withdrawal as the goal.

[GetTheRightVote]

26. We have no business being there, but must help with funds for rebuilding

Must bring soldiers home before more deaths occur.
The Iraqians will not let us stay and not fight so we must leave and seek to help rebuild the country once gone. The future of Iraq must lay in the hands of the citizens of that country such as ours lays in our hands. I do not know if we can ever make up for what we have done to those poor people nor will they what us too, I just don't know.

[RafterMan]

28. But to whom do we give the funds?

Which of its citizens?

Your answer glosses over the essence of the problem.

[TankLV]

25. Who will tell the last soldier to DIE FOR A LIE?!?!

There is no question - we should leave YESTERDAY!