Feanorcurufinwe
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Tue Jan-20-04 05:33 AM
Original message |
Clark Takes Aim at New Rival After Kerry Victory in Iowa |
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Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who earlier this month said that the Democratic primary was "a two-person race" between himself and Howard Dean, responded to Senator John Kerry's victory in the Iowa caucuses by saying, "I don't know what to call it now."
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"Nobody in the race has got the kind of background I've got. I've negotiated peace agreements. I've led a major alliance in war. It's one thing to be a hero as a junior officer. He's done that and I respect him for that. He's been a good senator. But I've had the military leadership at the top as well as at the bottom."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/20/politics/campaigns/20CLARK.html?ex=1075266000&en=377ddfe0b1eb3b2b&ei=5062
Clark: 1/9-11 19% 1/10-12 20% 1/11-13 22% 1/12-14 24% 1/13-15 23% 1/14-16 22% 1/15-17 20% 1/16-18 20% 1/17-19 19%
Kerry: 1/9-11 10% 1/10-12 11% 1/11-13 13% 1/12-14 15% 1/13-15 16% 1/14-16 18% 1/15-17 19% 1/16-18 19% 1/17-19 20% http://americanresearchgroup.com/nhpoll/demtrack/ http://americanresearchgroup.com/nhpoll/demtrack/demtrack04-21s.html
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incapsulated
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Tue Jan-20-04 05:40 AM
Response to Original message |
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has had his people taking shots at Clark last week as well.
It's going to be a fight, and I don't doubt it will get ugly.
It's not personal, just buisness. I like Kerry, he's my #2 choice.
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maddezmom
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Tue Jan-20-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. they are both in it to win |
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better vetting of our candidates now, leaves less room for Rove to manipulate facts in the GE.
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JI7
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Tue Jan-20-04 05:43 AM
Response to Original message |
2. nothing wrong with this, clark is playing up his record |
blm
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Tue Jan-20-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. exactly...their records will carry them through the day. |
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There are advantages for both.
However, Clark should have known by now that Kerry helped negotiate transfer of power in the Philippines and Cambodia. He also helped craft the Kyoto Protocol with other world leaders for 10 years. And the work he did to normalize relations with Vietnam is historic.
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Feanorcurufinwe
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message |
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only a "junior officer" seems kind of silly to me.
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JI7
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
6. using it to play up his own service as general |
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but i still don't see anything wrong with it. much of politics is silly.
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funky_bug
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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He egged that statement on, telling Clark that Kerry was the general now. Clark responded, and yeah, it was snippy. I'd like to think it was geared toward Dole, but time will tell.
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Feanorcurufinwe
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Agreed. But if he can't keep his cool with Bob Dole on Larry King |
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what's he gonna do in a debate with the king of smarmy lies, half-truths and distortions, GeorgeW?
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funky_bug
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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you know what out of him. He kept his cool... no shouting, just a snippy little remark... and he's got plenty of those ready for Bush the Lesser, count on it.
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Frederic Bastiat
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
14. Wes can handly the press adroitly |
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Which is more than I can say about some other candidates.
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IndianaGreen
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
17. Well, we know what Kerry will do one-on-one with Bush |
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Q: PATRIOT Act?
Bush: I needed it!
Kerry: I voted for it!
Q: IWR?
Bush: I needed it!
Kerry: I voted for it!
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JI7
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
22. most don't care about patriot act and IWR |
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i think kucinich is the only one who says he opposes patriot act.
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Feanorcurufinwe
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
27. What an absolutely idiotic comment. |
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You might want to look at what is really going on, the results in Iowa, what John Kerry is really saying, and then hopefully you will have something more insightful to add to the discussion.
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blm
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
12. That's political goading. Clark will get used to it as time goes on. |
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He's been a target on the battlefield and came out fine.
He'll be a target on the political battlefield and he'll adjust accordingly. Dole did prick him a bit. He'll learn from exchanges like that.
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IndianaGreen
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. Clark ate Dole alive! |
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But I see the Kerry supporters are still engage in their Rovian tactics and now they have Wes Clark on their sights, ready to smear him.
Clark did not vote for war like your wonder boy did!
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TacticalPeek
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
25. To be fair, it could be seen as a tad snippy, as has been noted. |
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But in context, Clark was talking directly back at Dole's undoubtedly scripted remark about Clark being knocked down a rank by Kerry's IA win. I think the audio link among him, Dole, King etc was problematic, and Clark just wanted to make sure he wasn't letting a personal dig go by unchallenged, which is good form, IMO.
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Rich Hunt
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
36. not a Kerry supporter |
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...but sheesh! I'm sure the man knows his policy back and forth.
My God.
I'm sorry, but I think Clark is running a terrible campaign.
Issues, my man, issues.
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kerry-is-my-prez
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Tue Jan-20-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
40. This was in response to Bob Dole's calling him a "colonel NOT a general" |
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That was a well-deserved response.
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NewYorkerfromMass
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message |
7. "junior officer"? Shame on Wes. Bullets do not discriminate by rank |
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Clark just lost a bunch of grunts over to Kerry. If he even had them to begin with. Damn disappointing comment by Clark. Really poor form.
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Frederic Bastiat
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. "Clark just lost a bunch of grunts over to Kerry" |
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Where did you get that from?
If i'm not wrong Clark was emphasizing his foreign policy credentials when he mentioned that Kerry was junior officer, junior officers do not have any foreign policy experience as far as I know.
As for being shot and all that Clark was also wounded in combat while in Vietnam.
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IndianaGreen
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
13. That's a quote taken out of context |
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I am happy to see who the elitist NY Times supports for the nomination, the Skull & Bones John Kerry.
Kerry got a Purple Heart for a minor flesh wound.
Clark almost died from his wounds!
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NewYorkerfromMass
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
18. "It's one thing to be a hero as a junior officer" |
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I don't see the confusion. It implies Kerry's heroism is somehow less because he was a mere Lt.? He did turn his boat around and back into enemy fire to rescue the man overboard. And pulled the man from the water himself. It's elitism by Clark.
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JI7
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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clark was playing up his military service which includes making it up to general. i'm a kerry supporter and when he says things about his own service in military and outside of it i don't see that as an attack on others who don't have the same service. it's more of them showing their own service. clark was doing the same thing kerry does. he wasn't talking about the danger associated with being a jr officer.
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Jerseycoa
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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I think Clark could have done better with it, too, but I think it's being exaggerated. Clark does respect Kerry and Kerry does respect Clark. They have both said so multiple times. But they are now running against each other and this will be happening. None of us should get all hurt over it. I think Dole's putdown stung Clark because Dole had been a big supporter of Clark in Kosovo and Dole's barb stung. I do think Clark should have been thicker-skinned at that moment, but it's not elitism. There is nothing elitist about Wes Clark.
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returnable
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message |
16. Could've been worse... |
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...he could've called him "Bush-lite". We all know how well that one goes over :hi:
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Clark Can WIN
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message |
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Kerry has every right to emphasize his decades in the party and the General has every right to point out his superior foreign policy experience.
It's all part of the game. Both good men.
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JI7
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Tue Jan-20-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message |
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people are too sensitive to these little things. kerry isn't. kerry doesn't take things personally and understands it's politics. it's one of the things i like about him.
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gauguin57
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
23. verrrry rude on Clark's part |
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Trying to belittle a triple-purple-heart winner by pulling rank? Come on, Wes. You should have more class than that. You can say "I believe I have more foreign-policy experience because I did this, this and this" ... but to try to downplay the credentials of a fellow soldier who put his butt on the line in a nasty war by calling him a "junior officer"? Yeah, but that junior officer has lots of experience with ALL areas of policy from having served in both the military AND the senate.
The nastiness factor I don't like about Dean I also don't like about Clark, either. He's a general who likes things his own way and (if you believe the words of those who served with him) isn't much into knowing what anyone else thinks of that. Doesn't bode well for the White House, where lots and lots and lots and lots and lots or compromise is essential.
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Hoppin_Mad
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message |
24. Another giant gaffe and personal attack from The General -nt- |
Feanorcurufinwe
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
29. Well, I wouldn't go that far. |
cthrumatrix
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Tue Jan-20-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
44. what's wrong with him sharing his views...do they want him silenced too? |
goodhue
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message |
26. If Clark goes negative |
cthrumatrix
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
28. I think Kerry will just avoid Clark ...could be a mistake for him |
Jerseycoa
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
35. Kerry won't avoid Clark |
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These two are going to battle. It's going to be hard on those of us who like both men, but we might as well be ready and remember it's just politics.
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returnable
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
30. Same applies to Kerry... |
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...if his campaign continues the "Clark's a Republican" meme they had going last weekend.
The lesson learned in Iowa was that negative campaigning doesn't work.
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Feanorcurufinwe
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Sounds like Clark saw the polls showing him slipping behind Kerry |
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even before the Iowa vote.
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kaitykaity
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:33 PM
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message |
33. Yeah, It Was a Bad Comment, But the Setting Is Important |
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He was smacking down Bob Dole, which was awesome.
I agree, however, this comment was unnecessary and did not make him look good.
DTH
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cthrumatrix
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
34. soon the whole "dem field" will be labled as "angry fighters" |
IndianaGreen
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
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I think it was important to smack down Dole. Dole was being provocative and he deserved a good kick in the ass.
I loved it!
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Tue Jan-20-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
39. Oh, the Dole Smackdown Was Great! |
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Edited on Tue Jan-20-04 02:55 PM by DoveTurnedHawk
I just think the comment about Kerry being a junior officer, etc., was unnecessary.
DTH
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LatinManNH
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Tue Jan-20-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
41. Goading as a strategy? |
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What does Dole have to lose if he gets smacked down by Clark? He's not running for office, but Clark is. The Republicans have already painted all the Democrats with the "angry" brush. It has worked very well in discrediting Dean and the other candidates will be subject to the same kind of goading. Even if Clark made Dole look like a fool, the only thing people will remember is that he "attacked Kerry" in an "angry" response.
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DoveTurnedHawk
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Tue Jan-20-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
42. It's a Legitimate Concern |
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I think Wes can do smackdown without appearing angry better than most, however.
DTH
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Turkw
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Tue Jan-20-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
43. But Clark, or any of the other Candidates HAVE to stick up for themselves |
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It was not a swipe at Kerry, I have NEVER heard Clark make a disparaging remark about anyone who has served in the military in any capacity. (I do not consider what Bush did constitutes serving in the military)
Dole sounded almost rambling making the attack, I wounder if the gist of that Dole was trying paint Clark with will become the new smear?
There is nothing that can diminish Kerry's military service record at all, the man's a war hero, and we all know this.
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