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So...Where's the Emerging Majority?

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 03:29 PM
Original message
So...Where's the Emerging Majority?
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catbert836 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stop being so pessimistic
Edited on Mon Dec-27-04 03:39 PM by catbert836
Have you ever actually read the book, or are you just being a doomsday prophet?
It's coming, and sooner than you think.
On edit: Read "Reason" by Robert Reich... it'll really help you out.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm only asking what the American Prospect is asking.
Should no one ask the question?
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ignu Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. i believe
most people share our morals, but the media is giving them a false impression of what our morals are.

blah blah pipa.org blah blah.

if a counter to fox news doesn't come on the scene soon kiss bye bye to democrats.
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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. It's already here, but the votes were stolen.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. 52.5 million voters in '00, 59 million voters in '04

What was the question?

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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The question had to do with a MAJORITY
It's pretty sad that I have to remind you of this fact, but the last Democrat to win a majority of the popular vote was Jimmy Carter in 1976. Bill Clinton didn't win a majority in 1992 or 1996, nor did Al Gore in 2000. They won a PLURALITY of the popular vote. And Kerry lost the popular vote in 2004 by a considerable margin.

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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. well, follow the trend

Clinton: 46 million voters in '92 43%
Clinton: 49 million voters in '96 49% (aberrant)
Gore: 52.5 million voters in '00 48.5%
Kerry: 59 million voters in '04 48.3% (mildly aberrant)

I don't even consider pre-1990 voting numbers to constitute a valid comparison. Perot split off the conservative Democrats and Gingrich-Dole-Bush made them Republican voters. They were there for the taking for Republicans since the late '60s, but for how the Nixon and Reagan crews behaved.

If you look at Carter's numbers, they're a very different electorate. Ford was a dead candidate- Carter was incredibly favored, but the 51% says most people voted for him as a lesser evil, really. It wasn't a strong win, politically speaking- it was a squeaker with a weak foundation. And if you look at the states he won it was the last hurrah of the Southern Democrats, of the FDR electorate. Which no longer exists- they're far into generational dieout and the small remnant has enough converts to make it majority Republican.

To be blunt, I think Democrats started out at the realignment of '68/'72 with a true base size of ~20%. Carter got it to around 30%. Clinton started with roughly 40%. The Right realized around the 40-45% mark (in the early Nineties) that they were starting to lose dominion- the culture and social order and economic privilege system was going to change- and since then we've had the Culture War polarization and the Right maximizing its efficiency and electorate.

One leg of your critique of the Emerging Democratic Majority doctrine is founded on the idea that present American society doesn't have a preexisting political bias. Well, historically it does and it's still present. It's toward the 'conservative' side, to the socioeconomic, racial/ethnic, political, corporate business, cultural/religious system, and a faux/dominant Anglosaxon monoculturalism all derived from the colonial system in which the Settlement/Conquest took place.

The other leg of your critique is that the Democratic Party doesn't 'stand for' something altogether clear, articulated, or definitive. That's a different and obviously lengthy discussion, but the electorate considers the distinction a definite one. Otherwise we wouldn't be having close, high turnout, elections.

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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. The only "trend" that matters is that the Dems have lost 2 straight
Edited on Mon Dec-27-04 08:46 PM by dolstein
president elections, and appear to have little chance to regaining control of either house of Congress any time soon.

You can try all you want to spin this into a positive trend, but those of us in the real world would beg to differ.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. (selfdeleted)
Edited on Tue Dec-28-04 09:18 PM by Lexingtonian
(sorry, double posted by accident)
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I'm not sure whether
to count you a pessimist or a defeatist or a superficialist. Same difference, I guess.

For one thing, what The People didn't like about Democrats when they last held majorities and pluralities, ~1990-1994, was the way they indulged in vicarious powerfulness- the way they couldn't get themselves to make the really concrete progress/changes in domestic policy and American life they were always talking about. This attitude was justifiable and (in fact) desired by The People throughout the Cold War- very careful, very small, bits of domestic progress and rethinking of them were what was considered best. Democrats remained in positions of legislative power in order to ensure that things would ratchet, would not fall back substantially or cause (more) domestic conflict, throughout the length of that War. But as soon as the Cold War really seemed over- in the collapse and aftermath of the Russian coup effort in late 1992- The People let all the wild things and bad ideas/ideologies loose in domestic politics, let them work by process of elimination. The first to be eliminated were the obsolete Democrats who considered their role to be that of essentially passive placeholders, aka conservative not-quite-Republicans.

The People want Democrats to be a force, not a ratchet, and to prove it. Republicans represent an anti-Modern force that is, in fact, becoming increasingly feeble- it's turning into a ratchet. (Look at the 'pro-life' and anti-gay marriage voters. Look at the swing vote this election- no joy there in voting for Bush. Look at the numbers in support of Bush's present agenda items.)

I realize you don't want for Democrats to play the mere ratchet bit either. But Democrats were a weak force with grotesque schisms (ask Nader) in 2000 and a weak force with conservative internal dysfunctionality on display (Deanite elitisms, bad latent social conservatisms e.g. DLC, and the fruitless pro/anti Iraq war righteousness in general) in 2004. What you are thereby saying to The People, even if you don't think you mean it, by insisting that Democrats should have won in 2000 and 2004 is: Democrats in power as ratchets for progress, as deadlockers and defenders of the status quo, is good enough.

I look at the present situation and the history of the bitter strife since the beginning of the Nineties, and Democrats are roughly fought into a position the Union had in the Civil War in the early winter of 1864/65. As a matter of fact, real Union control of Confederate territory did not change much between December 1863 and December 1864 and a hugh amount of soldiers were killed and wounded- in that sense it was a terrible year for the Union. But the Confederacy's power was broken down in that year, falling from seemingly indestructible to irrecoverable. Everything crumbled, was over in the next four months and change. A large part of the Union fighting was internal, too, with the compromise-prone conservatives- the McClellanite Democrats- ultimately giving in and allowing passage of the 13th Amendment in the House, long after the Senate passed it and the states were known to be ready to ratify it and with great pressure from Lincoln. That defined the overall, historical, meaning of the military victory.

Outside of the analogy, I look at what stands between Democrats and taking over federal power as a very few, but serious, issues/dilemmas. Democrats have to offer liveable solutions and stand for answers and transitions involved in Modern life in America, a full scheme rather than piecemeal bits, and state and enforce the central rule(s) of the renewed society. More obviously, Democrats have to come up with a serious resolution to the problematic American involvement in the way the Middle East has met Modern times and the Western world, a revision to all involvements in the region since 1940-something.

I don't find enjoyable how The People has voted, either- each election reminds me of the grotesqueness of much of the American condition- but The People sets the standard higher for our side. It may be the only way they can get a political party- and ours is the talented, imaginative, side- to deliver what the country really needs. We will continue to get rejections, but narrow ones, until/unless the Democratic Party decides to serve its role in the game fully, resignedly, and adequately. I think we are rather close to that. Check what is really in the polls, look at why swing voters really narrowly went to Bush and what they really think of the Democratic platform (they agree with it) and its leaders (they're okay with them) vs the Party innards' dorky selfrighteousnesses (which they don't like, or understand). Republican support implosion simply is an increasingly real possibility. What can possibly go right for them in the next year or two? The Bush foreign policy is hemorraghing, the Republican economic policy is unjustifiable and unsustainable, the Republican social policy is the political capital propping it all...but also bleeding.

You come up with a good prognosis for the Bushies, I'll show you a prognosis for their three policy emphases slipping into backfire over the next year or two.

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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. In those black box voting machines.
The exit polls showed it.
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Georgia_Dem Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually, it's only a small majority.
Current polls suggest that the 39% of the voters are Republican, and 42% of them are Democratic. That's about the margin by which John Kerry would've won without fraud.

But that doesn't help us on the Congressional front. Senate Republicans are favored because of the majority of red states. House
Republicans are favored because thanks to their strong positions in several major blue states including New York, we tend to be on the short end of the redistricting stick.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. We're here....
...we just got sandbagged again this year by fraud.

As far as the deluded cons and neo-cons go, they believe the pap that is spoon fed to them by the corporate media and the con radio talk shows. They don't read or bother to find out what the facts are.

I really think that taking the media back is essential. AAR is a great start, but it is only a start.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's...umm...out 'round back having a smoke.
Edited on Mon Dec-27-04 06:34 PM by Placebo
:eyes:
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That was very droll, Placebo
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InvisibleBallots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. It was coming, Democrats screwed it up
By being rude assholes. Just my opinion.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-04 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. 9/11
Gore won in 2000. Bush had approval rating below 50% before 9/11. GOP used 9/11 to scare populace. GOP won in 2002 and 2004 on the coattails of fear.

The emerging dem majority has merely been postponed.
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