How does Dean's 3rd place in Iowa reflect on Al Gore...?

[Beaker]

poor Al...He went out on a limb, and some would even say committed a political faux pas by endorsing Dr. Dean before a single primary vote had been cast, as if it was a foregone conclusion that the nomination was his for the taking.

and now it appears that the Man who Spawned Joe Lieberman into a quasi-legitimate national candidate doesn't wield quite the clout he apparently thought he did...maybe more people are at last getting 2000 behind them, and maybe realizing that it was at least partly Gore's fault- in order for someone to steal an election, someone else has to allow it to be stolen.

If Dean ultimately doesn't get the nomination, Gore should
allow himself to...just....quietly........fade........away............

[LuminousX]

1. More pointedly, how does it reflect on Harkin?

[kentuck]

4. Harkin is still the most popular politician in Iowa....

and his endorsement did not help Dean win his state. How could Al Gore help him if Harkin could not? The endorsements probably hurt Dean more than helped him, because he was portraying himself as a Washington outsider and some may have questioned why he was taking endorsement from present and former Washington insiders??

[Paragon]

2. Ask this again next Tuesday

Right now, it's a pretty silly question.

[Hep]

3. And Ivins and Richards, adn everyone else?

They're all going to hell for supporting a madman. After all, Dean is going to hell, so why not drag a bunch of intelligent well meaning democrats down with him?

BTW, anyone who questions Gore's value to our party and our country didn't see his speech on global warming. That's just sad, but not surprising.

[Frederic Bastiat]

5. Yup I saw the global warming speech, it was -40F outside

We're having the coldest weather in Eastern Canada since the 50's. Gore sure has lousy timing.

[Hep]

7. Oh My FUCKING GOD.

I can't believe I just saw that on a D message board.

[Paragon]

8. Haven't you heard?

Wes Clark is a Republican. :silly: I keed, I keed.

[Frederic Bastiat]

12. Temperature fluctuations are normal

Just depends how far back you want to look statistically.

Did you know that Antarctic glaciers are growing bigger and thicker? Glaciers are growing in other areas, too. Some glaciers on Canada's Baffin Island are as large or larger than at any time during the past 33,000 years; perhaps the past 60,000 years.

[Hep]

14. Be specific

Show links. Glaciers are growing in WHAT areas?

Glacial growth in the Baffin Island region is evidence of global warming, not evidence that it doesn't exist.

[Dhalgren]

18. You beat me to it!

How cold it is outside is not the indicator of the effect or importance of global warming. It is real, it is important, and it is here.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. Gore is right BUT it wasn't very media savvy time or place to make his

announcement. You could have just guessed that the Pubs would say exactly that AND that the media would be irresponsible to parrot it. This has happened over and over again (where Dems have made a statement about global warming and this exact thing happens.

Why oh why didn't he make that statement somewhere like Florida or a warm climate state?

[eleny]

26. Or even here in Colorado...

where we've had drought and warmer winters. It was 50 degrees here the other day. In January? Geez!

[Hep]

27. Perhaps you think the speech was planned the day before?

Or maybe the moveon people should have consulted a psychic to find out what the weather would be like?

For the love of god, has anyone here ever heard of reasonable expectations?

[Frederic Bastiat]

19. Here you go

http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm

Here's a (partial) list of the specific glaciers that are growing:

NORWAY
Ålfotbreen Glacier
Briksdalsbreen Glacier
Nigardsbreen Glacier
Hardangerjøkulen Glacier
Hansebreen Glacier
Jostefonn Glacier
Engabreen glacier (The Engabreen glacier
is the second largest glacier in Norway. It is a
part (a glacial tongue) of the Svartisen glacier,
which has steadily increased in mass since the
1960s when heavier winter precipitation set in.)


Norway's glaciers growing at record pace. The face of the Briksdal glacier, an off-shoot of the largest glacier in Norway and mainland Europe, is growing by an average 7.2 inches (18 centimeters) per day. (From the Norwegian daily Bergens Tidende.) See http://www.sepp.org/controv/afp.html


Click here to see mass balance of Norwegian glaciers:
http://www.nve.no/

Choose "English" (at top of the page), choose "Water,"
then "Hydrology," then "Glaciers and Snow" from the menu.
You'll see a list of all significant glaciers in Norway.
(Thanks to Leif-K. Hansen for this info.)

CANADA
Helm Glacier
Place Glacier
ECUADOR
Antizana 15 Alpha Glacier
SWITZERLAND
Silvretta Glacier
KIRGHIZTAN
Abramov
RUSSIA
Maali Glacier (This glacier is surging. See below)


GREENLAND
On November 13, the BBC ran a documentary, The Big Chill, saying that we could be on the verge of an ice age. The reason? Because one of Greenland’s largest glaciers has doubled its rate of advance, moving forward at the rate of 12 kilometers (7.2 miles) per year. Advancing 7.2 miles per year! It’s the fastest moving glacier on the planet. To see a transcript of the documentary, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/bigchilltrans.shtml

<...>

More at link ;)

[AP]

21. The New Yorker had an article which suggested that global warming

might send us INTO and ice age.

When it gets too warm, the ocean currents get fucked up because the cold poles want draw the heat from the center. The currents are what distributes heat around the world. If they stop, it's ice age city.

[Frederic Bastiat]

23. Yeah but that process will take hundreds of years

I am confident that renewable energies will be more prevalent by then.

[AP]

30. Actually, it happens very rapidly....in a decade.

That was the point of the New Yorker article. In the last decade we've had the same sort of fluctuations that have preceeded earlier ice ages in the decade before they started. It gets cold fast when the currents stop.

[pocoloco]

24. The temperature has to rise to enable the polar ice caps to grow.

It takes added heat to transport the added moisture to form the added ice.

[jedicord]

9. Actually, Sub Zero Weather IS Due to Global Warming

I'm not scientist, so someone else help me explain it better. Earth's heat is lost in the atmosphere faster. As an example, during winter it's actually warmer when it's cloudy because the clouds keep the heat down. No clouds allows the heat to rise. Something like that, anyway.

[Hep]

11. You are right.

Global warming makes winter and summer more extreme.

[Frederic Bastiat]

13. Link please

[LuminousX]

28. Some basic education for you

http://www.greenfacts.org/studies/climate_change/l_2/global_warming_7.htm#2

[Frederic Bastiat]

31. Not enough data on that site

They seem to go back only a few years (sometimes as far back as gosh 1995), look, if you're going to unequivocally claim that the planet is warming or cooling then you better have some historical data.

[AP]

22. has to do with ocean currents too, and convection. You need cold poles...

...to draw heat from the center. If the poles melt, the currents will stop. Heat will stop flowing north, and the caps will expand VERY rapidly.

Also, with all the moisture in the air, the temperature only needs to drop a little and it will all fall as snow. A white earth will reflect a lot of heat, and it will get colder fast.

Apparently, every ice age was preceded by warm climates at very high lattitudes (vineyards in northern england), and by wild tempature fluctuations in the years before the ice age.

The ice ages are very far apart and happen naturally (because of a build-up of vegetation, apparently, and because of the currents again). But we've been having the wild fluctuations and the warm high latitude climates way earlier than expected, and the argument is that it's global warming.

You don't come out of the ice age until the earth absorbs enough heat from the sun to get currents flowing under the ice and in the exposed ocean in way that distributes heat, and until vegetation starts growing again.

I can't remember all the details, and I'm not sure if this is exactly right. The new yorker has a long article about it two or three years ago.

[trumad]

10. What Global warming doesn't have an effect on weather be it cold or hot?

Dude you need to do some research.,.. It most certainly does.... To be honest...I'd expect a lame as comment like that from an ignorant Repuke, not a Dem.

[kentuck]

16. A lot of people think global warming is only related to "warming"....

and not the other extreme, artic freezing....

[Frederic Bastiat]

20. A lot of people use statistics

from as far back as it will suit their agenda. Global warming/cooling is a natural phenomenon, are we accelerating it? Perhaps, but there is no concrete evidence to suggest this.

[ShaneGR]

35. Yup, it's not that he's incorrect... he has TERRIBLE timing

He endorses Dean like the day before Saddam gets captured. He gives a global warming speech during the coldest winter in forever. He campaigns in Florida when he should be in Ohio or Tennessee or West Virginia.

He's cursed, time to move on.

[Beaker]

32. Going to Hell?

who said that??

unless you mean Vermont, after Super Tuesday, I'll agree...

and no, I didn't see Al Gore's apparently nation-changing? speech on global warming- what kind of policy changes has it initiated, to make it of such value?

BTW- Anybody who thinks that Al Gore is a "value" to our party obviously wasn't paying too much attention in 2000...(or in Iowa last night, for that matter...)

in the past 4 years, Al Gore has given us "President" Bush and all that entails, and Joe Lieberman's legitimacy as a national Democratic candidate...that's some legacy.

AL did have a lot of potential, but he fumbled the ball big time, and now he needs to fade away into the background, and wait for a Democratic President to call and offer him a job.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beaker]

36. I think you need to re-read the posting rules...

3.Posts about the "messenger" rather than "message" are categorically forbidden in the GD: 2004 Primary forum. You may not make any statement whatsoever about another member of this message board, unless it is unambiguously positive. You may not post anything that is insulting or rude to any other member, even if it is extremely mild...

[bigwillq]

6. I wasn't sold on Gore or Harkin's endorsements..

I think with Gore his time has past and like it was said he should fade away. With Gore and Lieberman, they had their chance, now it's time for someone else to take on the challenge.
I have no sensible reason as to why Harkin's endorsement didn't tell better for Dean. Maybe some Iowans thought Harkin betrayed them.

[K-W]

15. It is only Iowa

This is not a representitive sample of all the primary voters in the country. You cant jump to conclusions about this.

[flaminbats]

17. That depends on how long he sticks with Dean...

the best people always stick with their candidate until the last dog dies!

This is why I'm still undecided, once I commit..I shall never surrender. When the going gets tough, the tough only get tougher...

[John_H]

29. Makes me think that Al Gore didn't have much of an effect in IA

[EnemyCombatant]

33. Gore on The Environment

Realize that Gore discussed these same issues in his book more than 12 years ago.

He was right then and he's right now. The main scientist back him up on his claims. If you read his book Earth In The Balance, you can get a full understanding of his conclusions.

In addition, EITB is not just about the environment. Gore addresses the insanity of humankind for destroying the earth.

Interesting indeed.

http://www.defendersofgore.com/EITB

[beaconess]

37. Al who?

[Goreloverjp]

38. Dean's 3rd place in Iowa Al Gore's Fault...

Dean's 3rd place in IA had nothing to do with Al Gore. Howard Dean has to take sole responsibility for this placement. Many people have been saying for months now that when America started to pay attention and Begin casting votes, that Dean would come up short. Blame the media for trying to pick the Democratic nominee before a vote was even cast. Dean does not have the experience, temperament, or credentials to take on a sitting President in a time of war and win. When the people in IA went shopping for a President last night, someone who could defeat Bust in the general election they clearly and decisively passed on Gov. Dean.

After September 11 foreign policy experience, military service and national security credentials are now longer merely  bonus attributes in a President; they are leadership characteristics that are fundamental in a president, and of which Howard Dean has none.
Now is not the time for a President in Training...IA has spoken, and I believe the rest of the nation with come to that same conclusion.

You can blame Al Gore and re-visit all the old RW media spin about the 2000 election if it makes you feel better, but in the end it is just spin. Al Gore has cared about the environment and this country for his entire political life. He is the people's elected President who had the election taken away from him, and us by the US Supreme Court. He is a true American Patriot and does not deserve being trashed by any of us here on a Democratic message board. If you want to blame anyone for the Doctors finish last night, look to the actions of Dean himself in the past month for your answers.

Paula