IMHO - Talk Radio ALONE is killing the Democratic party.

[MikeG]

Unless and until we restore some balance to talk radio, we will consistently lose elections and not have power.

However it's done, boycotts, demonstrations, picketing, it HAS to be done.

[xultar]

1. That is some TRUTH you are speaking.

WE spend so much time trying to catch up we don't reach enough people to frame the debate.

We also spend way too much time fighting and arguing with each other we don't have time to build an infrastructure to reach the masses.

How do I know about fighting each other...

Black folk can't get ahead because we constantly fight each other and do the crab-in-the-bucket routine or the circular firing squad.

You see where it's gotten us. Divided and conquered.

[greenohio]

69. Yup.

We need to hang together or we will certainly all hang separately.

B. Franklin

[priapis]

105. Air America Radio? Hellooo?

[Fla Dem]

112. You are so right. Public brainwashed 7/24/365. Until the

Liberal/Progressive voices are heard equally we will not win another Presidential election. Or for that matter local elections as well.

A concerted RW effort over the past 15-20 years to monopolize radio and TV discourse has resulted in the complete identity theft of the progressive/liberal ideology. They have demonized all our issues. We DO NOT have an equal voice. We DO NOT have the "rock stars" like Limbaugh and Hannity. Al Franken IS NOT in their league. He is not hard hitting, he doesn't frame RW issues in a way that impacts visceral feelings. The RW seizes on an issue and it becomes a talking point for all the talk shows, national and local. They have brainwashed 50%+ of voting Americans.

Air America Radio is a start, but as much as I hate to say it, they need to take a page from the Hannity and Limbaugh play book and stop playing nice. I know they are close to beating Limbaugh in the NYC market, but SO WHAT!! They are preaching to the choir in NYC.

Limbaugh rarely has guests on his show, and takes only occasional phone calls, the rest of his 3 hours is taking current issues and hitting democrat's over the head with them. Everything wrong in the world is the democrats fault. He talks non-stop either praising the RW, or demonizing democrats, continuing hitting on the same themes over and over again. Hannity is very similar except he does take some phone calls and has guests. But his guests are just as hard hitting, and they parrot the same talking points and themes. They play fast and loose with facts, spinning them just enough to undermine and demean our positions, and put fear into the hearts in the heartland. Every single RW talk show hammers home the same talking points, they are well coordinated. It's no joke when Limbaugh says his show is show prep for all the other talk shows. Whether intentionally, or by design, they all follow his lead.

Themes: elite liberal media, main stream media, biased media, Massachusetts liberal, soft on defense, tax and spend, Teddy{hic}Kennedy, tree huggers, femme-nazis, flip-flopper, Hillary Care, Environmental wackos, unpatriotic, etc. Continually used over and over again.

Plus they are entertaining in a sinister way. They use parody, songs, quips to reinforce their points. They pick selected sound bites and twist them to fit their agenda.

I live in NE Florida. The only 2 AM stations I can get both have Limbaugh. Then one carries Hannity in the 3-6 slot. The other Michael Savage. At 7 they carry Laura Ingram. There is no alternative. Both these stations carry local and national news and local weather, so people listen to them. People listen in their cars, shops, at home and work.

Why can't the Dems get more LW/Moderate "Rock star" voices heard across America? Do we have any one that is as good a communicator as Limbaugh or Hannity?

Why is all the punditry on cable news so RW? Except for Olbermann there is no one I can stand to watch. He at least takes jabs at the right. Limbaugh started this whole myth of the elite liberal media, and the media bought it and has turned into weak kneed sissies. They are so afraid of offending the administration, or having Limbaugh/Hannity call them out for reporting the truth, they have capitulated their responsibilities.

Unless this administration severely screws up over the next 4 years, we will have another uphill battle in 2008, regardless who is running. We will also not win back any seats in the Senate or Congress.

We have to have strong voices out there hitting back 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Until we do we will not overcome, and in fact we may become irrelevant.

[TheFarseer]

120. you are 100% right.

the only thing I can add, is that they attribute positions to democrats that very few or even no democrats subcribe to. They make it out to be that democrats want to take away parent's rights to discipline children, ban bibles, put mufflers on cow's butts, etc etc. They also try to blame things on dems that republicans are even more responsible for(illegal immigration, budget deficits) Limbaugh and Hanitty in particular are masters of this.

[musette_sf]

2. FAIRNESS DOCTRINE

I hate to shout, but this is the key. We need to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine. It didn't used to be like this, back in the days when wingers were marginalized because of EQUAL TIME.

[CatholicEdHead]

31. Most people think it is still in force

even to this day. They are suprised to find out it was repealed in the Reagan years.

[maduroftime]

46. I believe in the First Ammendment and freedom of speech

Whose concept of "fairness" would you use? We don't need the federal government regulating freedom of speech through a subjective term like "fairness". I have two words for you: Air America

Only our support of alternative radio choices will change things.

[Cats Against Frist]

75. Money and access to telecom infrastructure is as much a censor as

government could be. A shutout of voices due to media concentration limits the discourse. Look how it's turned conservative brains to mush, because they never get anything but propaganda piped into their little totalitarian brains 24/7.

I do wish the problem could be solved outside government, but the problem is, that the bulk of our supporters are no more responsible than the bulk of GOP supporters, and right-wing radio has lots of money and media ownership behind it. It's forced conversion, in a way. As they said on "Outfoxed," -- most people don't even realize the difference between news and editorial, and I'm damn sure that right-wing hate radio listeners don't realize that Rush and Hannity, et. al., get their marching orders from the right-wing intellectual elite, who view that very media as a tool to control their constituency, for whom, I assure you, they have great contempt -- and, sweetly enough, also believe that they need to be manipulated and misinformed into submission.

Sad state of affairs.

[KSAtheist]

88. Nice.

The main problem is the perception that right-wing radio sells and left-wing radio does not sell.

This hasn't been helped by our shitty selection of talk-show hosts. Dershowitz, Cuomo, Hart...all eloquent and name-worthy; all with fairly wide circulation, yet bombed because they didn't know what the fuck they were doing on the radio.

The main solution is to start small; find some intelligent, articulate people in smaller markets, and build them up. It will take a few years, but it's a better solution then ramming it down the public's craw.

[AngryAmish]

90. Radio is a different beast

Rush is a former f'n DJ. However, he was in the trade for many years before he rose to fame. Like many things, we need to develop our bench.

That is why I was very pleased to see the Harold Ickes think-tank. Heritage, Rand et al. have been kicking our ass for years because they have ideas and phony up "studies" to prove their thesis. But if a Senator can point to a "study" no matter how bullshit, it can make that marginal change of a vote that wins things.

Just having a nationwide network won't do it. Skilled people who are good at their jobs win.

[Skittles]

129. my concept of fairness

would be anything but nonstop lies and propaganda

[blackangrydem]

58. I don't think censorship is the answer.

We need to come up with viable alternatives.

Air America is a good start. We need more.

[musette_sf]

61. You think the Fairness Doctrine is CENSORSHIP???

"Equal time" is censorship?

I respectfully disagree, and invite you to explain to me how you think this is so.

BTW, I like Air America and I listen to it regularly. And in the interest of Fairness, I understand that Al Franken had Pat Buchanan on yesterday. This demonstrates that our side still believes in the Fairness Doctrine, even though it was killed by Reagan. We don't need a law to get us to act fairly -- but the wingers DO.

Do you really think Rush or Hannity would have any of the AA team on their show and treat them respectfully?

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE -- IT'S NOT CENSORSHIP.

[blackangrydem]

62. I think post #46 lays it out pretty well

I don't want federally mandated radio programming. Like I said, we just need to come up with some great Dem talk show hosts.

Mario Cuomo tried and failed.

Al Franken is doing fine.

I think Carville could do one.

[musette_sf]

63. Still respectfully disagree

and can't fathom how you see the Fairness Doctrine as censorship.

I'd like some great non-partisan talk show hosts. And some great guests from all sides of the political spectrum, presenting their positions and discussing same respectfully.

Do you mind if I ask how old you are? Do you remember political programming during the Fairness Doctrine? I do, and I think we could all benefit from the higher ground on which politics were discussed on radio and TV, back in those days.

[blackangrydem]

65. I won't divulge my age here, but let's just say I used to listen

to Larry King and Bruce Williams on the radio when I was in college.

[musette_sf]

67. sounds like the 80s to me

and I don't really have a point of reference for these guys and what they aired at that time.

Fairness Doctrine was killed by Reagan in 1987, I believe.

So, did the shows that you mention feature guests from different sides of the political spectrum? Or did they focus on wingnuts only, and deride progressive opinions and people?

If they had guests from different sides of the spectrum, it's a good bet that part of their motivation came from the Fairness Doctrine, pre-1987.

So why is it again that you think the Fairness Doctrine is censorship? And why would you want Carville as a host on some progressive radio show? He can barely stick up for the Dems successfully on Crossfire. Personally I think he might have had some fire and truth to him once upon a time, but those days are long over.

[blackangrydem]

74. You've never heard of Larry King? He did radio up until his TV

show took off in the eighties. I listened to him back in 81-84. Williams had a financial show, not political at all.

Carville is an asset to our party. He is the original architect. Unfortunately Kerry called on him too late. Had he been there in the beginning I'll bet things would have been different.

The market should and will determine which shows survive in a free market economy. No radio talk show will survive if they can't attract listeners and sell products.

Carville would be great, IMO.

[musette_sf]

78. Of course I know Larry "Methane" King

I just never listened to his radio show. I got out of the talk show listening when I left my parents' home... mom was a Barry Farber and Long John Nebel addict.

Once again, I respectfully disagree with you, because I have long since lost my high opinion of Carville. He's like Colmes to Novak's Hannity, and half the time when I get pissed off watching Crossfile, I'm pissed off at Carville being such a laydown.

And you're dancing pretty close to that small-l libertarian line with that "free market economy" rap. Maybe read some Krugman to get a more progressive view of the "free market".

Happy New Year, from a white angry dem! :party:

[itzamirakul]

76. IMO, Carville has been

pussy-whipped by his wife into uselessness.

[musette_sf]

80. I think they're the BS Tag Team

Seriously, I think either one of them would change their tune to anything else, for the highest bidder. Unless she's the dom and that's his bag, I don't see how these two could stay married if they were each really true believers in their own cant.

[tx_dem41]

79. In "fairness"...the Fairness Doctrine would never...

guarantee everything you said it would. How would it guarantee a respectful discussion? It would not guarantee a "higher ground".

[musette_sf]

81. Reimplementing the Fairness Doctrine

would go a long way to begin to fix what is wrong with political discourse in the MSM today.

Take away the echo chamber, and the stridency level goes down.

I just do not think the answer to the problem is to buy more and louder echo chambers than the other guy.

[tx_dem41]

82. I think we would end up just as segregated...

and have two "echo chambers". I'm not saying I'm against the re-implementation BTW.

[musette_sf]

83. I think it would be a good step back towards sanity

and we should work to get Colin's lad OUT of the FCC, too.

[thebigdonkey]

100. Wait do you think Rush has a LEGAL right to do what he does.

[thebigdonkey]

101. That may be a good idea in theory but until the Dems get control again

we will be unable to do that. So in the mean time we need to come up with somthing else.

[imabadman]

128. Government control of the media

is the essence of censorship.

Who do you want to draft this so-called "Fairness Doctrine?"

The Republican controlled House or the Republican controlled Senate?:thumbsdown:

[Nederland]

96. It could be

The Fairness Doctrine means that government determines what is meant by equal time, different opinions, etc. Right now, that means that the Republicans would determine those things. In effect, you could end up making things worse than they are now.

[jswordy]

3. I really disagree with this...

...and I think it does us no good to play the victim. Talk radio was alive and well when Clinton was in office, and we managed to wrestle Congress away from Newt during that period.

What has hurt the Democratic party can be summed up succintly:

1.) Loss of the connection to the people. Working folks don't feel we have their best interests in mind. The middle class thinks we have abandoned it. Unions only went 66 pecent Democrat last time.

2.) Substituting concept for heart. Man, we need folks nationally who speak from the heart, not the head! We don't need quibbles and intellectualism. We need Will Rogers types.

3.) Believing that money equals wins. Well, Terry McAuliffe and his DNC-DLC backers ought to have learned now that ain't so. We had more money, we still lost. Hmmm...maybe it is the candidates?

4.) Either lack of, or unwillingness to listen to, new and innovative strategists. I don't know which it is.

5.) A penchant for pandering. Oh, you don't like our message? Well let me change my colors like a chameleon. Uh, people see through that crapola.

In summary, I think we need to bitch less about stuff that is uncontrollable and outside our party, and work more on stuff that is controllable and inside our party. Like the 5 points above.

Events, especially economic, are going to hand us an opportunity in the next couple years. We'd better be ready, or we'll be out in the woods for another 4-8. If all we are gonna do is gripe about how talk radio...or the media...or someone ELSE is our problem, instead of getting our own house in order, we will NEVER win. Never.

[PA Democrat]

5. Almost 40% of people get their "news" from talk radio

which is overwhelmingly right wing. No one proposed that we do nothing but gripe about talk radio. But to pretend that the lack of liberal or even moderate voices on the airwaves does not influence people's politics is naive.

If there is no medium through which to get your message out to the people, how do you propose to win hearts and minds?

[vpigrad]

6. Got a source for that 40%?

I haven't heard someone in decades that said they listened to talk radio. Who are these people?

[jswordy]

11. I reject that argument about...

40 pecent getting their news from talk radio. In my own media experience, those who listen to conservative talk radio do so BECAUSE THEY ALREADY AGREE WITH IT.

Same deal with these kind of blogs, actually!

;-)

No new hearts and minds are being won by talk radio. It also is an overwhelmingly male demographic, and largely on AM radio, which needs it badly cuz AM is otherwise a dead zone for ads. The overall market size for talk is small compared to other formats, especially on FM. The news media and political junkies pay more attention to it, though, because it is in their sphere of interest and therefore disproportionately attracts their attention.

GWB was re-elected by the CHURCHES, not talk radio. That is how the message spread that Kerry was a Godless homo-and-abortion supporter who would allow guys to tongue each other on the streets and have our teen daughters lined up to have their kids ripped out. The message, again, was delivered to FOLKS WHO ALREADY BELIEVED IT, and was reinforced over and over to them, driving them in numbers never before seen to the polls.

For example, CHURCHES are the ones who used their own buses to deliver so many Christian voters to the polls in Nashville, TN, on a Saturday that they alone set a one-day advance voting record for that city. Bus after bus of blue-hairs, lined up down the street. And more coming.

If you want to rail against something outside the party, do so where the real power was for GWB and the GOP...in the tax-exempt bully pulpits.

But I wish that, rather than doing that, we could just get our voice back and our connection to the people back. Oh, and some candidates worth a damn. I think the "free media," as they call the reporters, would give us all the air and ink we need if we had a frickin' MESSAGE to deliver.

[PA Democrat]

15. I disagree. I have seen a number of people whose political views have been

obscenely corrupted by right wing talk radio- my own parents and my brother-in-law among them. If you think it is not influencing people, you are fooling yourself.

Corporations who have their own profit motivations DO influence the message. Ask Phil Donahue why his program (which was the highest rated show on MSNBC) was canceled.

[bobbieinok]

39. local RW talk show host Michael DelGiorno runs his show like a church

he gives mini-sermons, gives pep-talks about 'christians' taking back America

[PA Democrat]

14. 49% listen to radio for news ; 22% rely on talk radio as primary source

http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/narrative_radio_publicattitudes.asp?cat=7&media=8

[spooky3]

20. my sister, her kids, and both of my parents listen to talk radio

They believe every word of it.

The problem is not just a lack of liberal voices; it's a lack of truth. People who listen to Rush and friends and believe that he is telling the truth about factual matters will understandably be influenced in their subjective reactions to this "truth."

[PA Democrat]

23. I hear you spooky3

I can't tell you how many hours I have spent trying to refute the CRAP that some of my family spouts after hearing it on RW talk shows. It breaks my heart because my relationship with my own parents has been greatly strained because of the likes of RW hate radio.

[spooky3]

70. heart-breaking it is. Let's hope someday the light shines.

[Bandit]

24. What a bunch of BS

you state "and we managed to wrestle Congress away from Newt during that period." That is the exact opposite of the truth. We lost Congress in '94 to the likes of Newt and his Contract on america and they were so delighted with Rush Limbaugh they paraded him about the halls of Congress and made him an un-official member. They honored Rush as the most powerful voice in America. Also it was not during clinton's term that the Fairness doctrine was done away with. It was under Reagan and that was the rise of Hate Radio. It has just grown immensly over the years and also Media consolidation has had a major impact. Liberal talk shows are just not allowed on the great majority of Media outlets. You really need to get your facts straight.

[nascarblue]

59. And now we've even lost NPR completely

[Skittles]

25. OMG

YOU LISTEN TO TOO MUCH TALK RADIO

[theboss]

28. We wrestled Congress from Newt?

In what election did that happen because I must have been in a coma at the time?

[Romberry]

42. We managed to wrestle congress away?

Uh...no. We didn't. Newt may have bowed out but the house has never returned to Democratic control since the Republicans gained the majority in 1994. Since then we have also lost the senate and the 2004 presidential election.

Right wing hate-talk radio *is* an effective tool. I have lost previously sane friends to its pull. When they are inundated for several hours each and every day with hate radio talking points with no counterpoint or rebuttal, the effects seem similar to brainwashing. They become pod people. They become immune to facts. They vote Republican. Ignore the power of unchallenged propaganda at your own peril.

[Silverhair]

95. Who forced them to tune in RW radio? Nobody. It was THEIR choice.

Let's face it. Liberal radio just isn't listened to. It has been tried. It flopped.

[Left coast liberal]

107. Where have you been!

Liberal radio is the rising star! AAR is growing by leaps and bounds and they have lots of advertisers who don't think it's a flop.

Time you came up with a new line there.

[DaedelusNemo]

111. Only option available!

If people are stuck in their cars on along commute and want to hear some people talking, what choices do they have? By and large, it's all RW crap.

"You have a choice, comrade. You can have a potato to eat, or not."

Liberal radio hasn't been 'tried' and 'flopped'. The RW talk show hosts flopped and were heavily subsidized for years before they developed enough audience to fly on their own. No similiar effort has yet been made for liberal radio. It takes time to build.

[TheFarseer]

123. Yeah, liberal talk radio is hard to find

also, descent music is hard to find. What else is there?

[Liberal In Texas]

118. Been on a long road trip lately?

I traveled about 3000 miles late this last summer through the mid section of the country, then east, then south.

You can scan the dial hour after hour and only find RW talk and their associated talking points. It's like that old legendary Chinese water torture, constant brainwashing.

NPR stations are hard to find in the middle of nowhere, you pretty much have to rely on AM or plug in a CD. At least there's Art Bell after midnight! LOL...

[BlueManDude]

45. Reagan ditched the Fairness Doctrine n/

[salin]

47. er... per newt... they TOOK OVER congress during this time

and we haven't been able to take it back. That premise is incorrect.

Rush on radio (1988 or so and on)

Clinton wins (1992) with a dem senate and dem house

Newt and GOP wins house (1994)...

[nascarblue]

57. Dem politicians need to turn left to the people, not right to K street. NT

[montana500]

110. it wasn't as bad then

\\..and I think it does us no good to play the victim. Talk radio was alive and well when Clinton was in office, and we managed to wrestle Congress away from Newt during that period\\


Clear channel and their ilk didn't have their 1000 radio station command and conquer stations setup. however, BILL CLINTON did set up and facilitate the GOP ownership of the airwaves by weakening the 1996 media ownership regulations.

It wasn't until 2001,2002 that the GOP radio command center was fully integrated.


\\What has hurt the Democratic party can be summed up succintly:

1.) Loss of the connection to the people. \\


We lost the connection by not getting our points out to America. You need some kind of balance in the media to accomplish that.







\\
Working folks don't feel we have their best interests in mind. The middle class thinks we have abandoned it. Unions only went 66 pecent Democrat last time.\\

and we are going to convince them how? By not ever getting our values and ideals on the right wing radio dials?


\\
2.) Substituting concept for heart. Man, we need folks nationally who speak from the heart, not the head! We don't need quibbles and intellectualism. We need Will Rogers types.\\

I think we need smart leaders, and people will vote for smart leaders if they hear good things about their plans across the media spectrum.
Don;t you see? The GOP has already framed this very debate right now. Yo usay "we need a Bush". You have been suckered yourself.

Who says we need that? While I agree intellectualism has hurt us in terms of party infighting, I dont think it hurts a candidate unless you lack any kind of control of the media or balance(see John Kerry in the 2004 elections).





\\
3.) Believing that money equals wins. Well, Terry McAuliffe and his DNC-DLC backers ought to have learned now that ain't so. We had more money, we still lost. Hmmm...maybe it is the candidates?\\

hehe. Nope. It's the fact that the GOP has the same amount of money, but they *also* have the entire radio dial across America, and they have the entire media framing things the way they see fit. The reality is the GOP has billions more in infrastructure and communications.


\\
4.) Either lack of, or unwillingness to listen to, new and innovative strategists. I don't know which it is.\\

that is part of it.


\\
5.) A penchant for pandering. Oh, you don't like our message? Well let me change my colors like a chameleon. Uh, people see through that crapola.\\

Did they really change their message or is this the GOP media filtering the debate once again?


\\
In summary, I think we need to bitch less about stuff that is uncontrollable and outside our party, and work more on stuff that is controllable and inside our party. Like the 5 points above.\\

It all means nodda, zip nothing until we get some mainstream voices back in the media again.



\\Events, especially economic, are going to hand us an opportunity in the next couple years. We'd better be ready, or we'll be out in the woods for another 4-8. If all we are gonna do is gripe about how talk radio...or the media...or someone ELSE is our problem, instead of getting our own house in order, we will NEVER win. Never.\\

Dont you get it? Your house doesnt have to be in order to win elections. All you have to do is *say* and *act* like your house is in order. Look at the GOP.

You can be a complete failure and lie about every single issue and action. But as long as you have 10,000 radio stations with lineups of Limbaugh, hannity, dr. laura and o'reilly 24/7 in every nook and crannie across America, you will always come off *just peachy* to the guy riding in his tractor listening to the radio or the insurance salesman travelling through Ames Iowa.

[blackcat77]

4. It's called the first amendment

They have a right to present their material and so do we. Rather than complain that they are on the air, we need to present some viable alternatives. Air America is a good start, but it's only a start.

[MikeG]

9. That must be why 99% of talk radio is conservative.

And 48% voted for Kerry.

Something is fishy.

Its called a fix.

[salin]

48. more and more cases of media NOT accepting

liberal ads (paid... market, right?) as too controversial - while controversial conservative ads get full runs...

[FormerDittoHead]

52. Here's a statistic that will make you think...

Most of the more powerful talk radio outlets (coverage) are in HEAVILY Democratic areas.

Example: Philadelphia. (OK, old stats, but I remember reading this)

Philadelphia county voted ~80% for Gore in 2000.

Get that? These "free market freepers" TALK about "serving the market" "just out for the money" blaw, blaw, blaw. BS!

In the Philly market (again what I read) Clearchannel WPHT is *only* political talk radio (with any meaningful coverage) available.

2004 update: AAR is picked up by WHAT, whose transmitter is run by two squirels.

[PA Democrat]

7. Lynn Cullen of WPTT Pittsburgh mentioned on her show today

that her show may be syndicated. Apparently, her appearance on CSPAN has resulted in a great demand for her show.

Lynn is smart, funny and a top-notch spokesperson for the left.

[indigonation]

16. I was listening today also. Lynn Cullen rocks....

I wish they hadn't moved her show to the same time slot as Al Franken, but now can listen to Thom Hartmann in the morning.

We need to get our message out to the average Joe flippin' channels on the way to work or whatever. We can't have Rush and the other right wing lying propagandists be the only choice. We have to do something about Fox News Channel too.

I was listing to some right-wing douchbag on the radio the other day, I don't remeber the name, but out in California somewhere. He was of course in denial about global warming. You should have heard the way he totally misrepresented the Ohio Vote fraud problems. Said that John Kerry only wanted to count the votes in Ohio where he lost, but not all the other states, so therefore a hypocrite. I wanted to call in and get him and his audience up to speed with the entire vote fraud picture, including the 3rd party candidates and Katherine Blackwell, but much too complicated, and I was too close to my destination.

I sort of kick my self for not making the time, but would have needed to review the information myself again to make a good case.

[PA Democrat]

18. Welcome to DU fellow Cullen fan!

I doubt the right wing talk show host would have allowed you to make your points (if you managed to get past their screeners), so don't beat yourself up for not calling.

[baldingrockwarlord]

21. for one thing...

If Rush's DRUG case would come to trial finally, and if he was prosecuted just like other illicit narcotic users and doctor shoppers, including those he used to rail about, he'd at least be off the airwaves through the duration of his sentence. That would be one conservative pig dog out of the picture.

[robbedvoter]

8. Not alone. From 14 ssigns of fascism:

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by
the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled
by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and
executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. TOP

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a
complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns
against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of
legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries,
and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their
judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm

[XemaSab]

10. Cause and effect

I think people listen to rabid talk radio because they are angry, and not the other way around.

Thomas Frank in "What's the matter with Kansas" calls it the Plen-t-plaint mentality of always finding some little thing to spend an hour bitching about... some little thing that can always be blamed on the liberals. Anger against "the (liberal) man" gets solidified and reinforced.

Some liberal commentators, like Jim Hightower before he got scrapped by Mickey Mouse radio, have sort of the same schtick from a liberal, anti-corporate perspective. (I have all the respect in the world for the man, so don't take that as a slam.)

Unfortunately, anger mobilizes part of the base, and alienates other parts of the base, but it might attract angry people from the other side. The problem is that most liberals are afraid to fight, and when we do fight we get slammed for it.

[w4rma]

12. I think they listen to talk radio because it's the only politics available

on the radio.

[robbedvoter]

13. That's not true. I listened myself for a while because there was

nothing else. I prefer talk radio to music and I had the pleaseure of hearing Ed Koch on sterilizing welfare womed or tha rantings of the likes of Bob Grant - never could stomach Limpballs.
As the Clenis hunt intensified, I gave up my talk radio - except for 2 h on WNYC - which devolved as well by now.
Air America changed my life (I am too depressed to listen these days, but I'll return). Your theory is upside down - it's what fed the "there's no market for liberal radio" BS - until the radio came - and the market materialized.

[zoeb]

17. who needs balance....

Wait until all those Limbaugh listeners figure out that an "ownership society" equates with "not having a pot to piss in. When all those well paid(12k yearly) Wal-mart employees save 5% of their pay for Social Security, another 5% for health care savings plan for deduction purposes; add to that a new flat tax or sales tax( maybe both); talk radio couldn't slobber enough to get another Idiotpublican elected. :puke:

[NAO]

19. TV News is Much Worse - talk radio only affects people who are interested

Which is a tiny fraction of the electorate.

People who are REALLY interested actually read books as a source of information.

The MODERATELY interested listen to talk radio or peruse partisan sites (like this one, or Free Republic).

The UNINTERESTED MAJORITY just passively watch TV. CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and the news portions of ABC, CBS and NBC are their entire source of information about the world. Hence the last election was 'close'.

[quinnox]

22. At least now there is Air America

Maybe there will eventually be more of a balance as time goes on between fascist radio and truth radio.

But I don't think it is quite that influential, people who listen to all those right wingers and agree with them probably are pre-disposed to being republicans anyway, they are a lost cause.

If they are dumb enough to swallow what the right wingers say, then there isn't a point in trying to convert them with left wing radio, which is usually more cerebral.

[wyldwolf]

26. There will be some adjustments to Air America this year...

..I've heard through the grapevine.

Plus, look for more stations to add partial AAR programming and other lib/Dem personalities very soon.

[CatholicEdHead]

30. Ed Schultz

is up to 70+ stations and rising. Watch him grow over the next 4 years. He will give Rush a run for his money. He speaks the language of the "heartland" plains.

[wyldwolf]

51. You'll see Ed in markets competing with Air America

..especially on Clear Channel owned stations who don't have Air America Radio rights in certain markets.

[Bouncy Ball]

97. I just heard him for the first time recently

my friend got Sirius radio in her car (something I am seriously considering) and she is a liberal and had him on and he ROCKED.

[Left coast liberal]

109. That's for sure! He's not liberal but...

Hopefully all the people who like Rush can make a painless move to Ed.

I listen to him all the time and like a lot of what he says but sometimes I wonder, "What the hell?" He's no liberal beacon.

And, I do believe he was a conservative for many years. Maybe he wasn't able to out-Rush Rush so he put on a white hat instead.

[senaca]

41. AAR changes

I hope that one of the changes to AAR will be to go local. With the proviso that "all politics is local" it would be great to have a show during the day that is local and discusses local issues. To have state representatives come on and talk and respond to listener's regarding local issues would go a long way a providing a democratic perspective and building grassroot organization.

[heidiho]

27. I Agree With You 100% Mike G, Rush, Sean and the others

have poisoned the minds of average Americans. Nothing the Dems say or do will ever be right.

They are the biggest hate-mongers ever and are responsible for the deep deep divide in this country.

[chicagojoe]

73. Well, there IS one way to stop these clowns.

Fight fire with fire. Smear tactics. Unpleasant, but necessary.
I have no qualms about going their way in order to destroy them.

[Mr.Green93]

77. Smear tactics.?

How "progressive".

[TheFarseer]

124. hasn't worked so far

O'Liely is a sex maniac and Limpballs is a drug addict and it hasn't hurt them.

[Pepperbelly]

29. talk radio is a like a chancre sore on the whore media's lip, nt

[hollowdweller]

32. 2 friends both traveling salesmen turned Republican after Rush came on

One lost his job and brainwashing wore off and he changed back to Dem.

[marcologico]

40. good point -- it's guys stuck in their cars who wind up listening

to AM talk radio as they crawl across the exurbs in endless traffic jams. Getting them to listen to Pacifica which has no sports or NPR which has whiny fu-fu sports isn't going to be easy.

[hollowdweller]

64. Exactly! I heard a commentator say that Clinton called him once and asked

how he liked his speech. The person said it was way too long and contained too many specifics. Clinton told him that it was purposely made that way so as to maximize the chance that somebody would be channel surfing, tune into his speech for a few minutes, and hear a program that might appeal to him.

Rush has several hours a day of truckers, delivery people, commuters who may not totally agree with him at first, but after kind of halfway listening for a few months they think everybody thinks like that.

Jim

[Gloria]

33. Yeah, and Air America is depending way too much on Clear Channel...

If they don't start buying or going onto non-Clear Channel stations soon, I think our only network will be very vulnerable....

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w4rma]

43. Progressive and moderate Dems are working to defeat those DLC Dems.

There are many fewer DLC Dems now, than there were then.

Also the NDN (New Democrat Network) is moving in to to marginalize the DLC and replace that organization.

So the DLC is being attacked from both sides: moderates AND progressives.

[wyldwolf]

53. Haven't noticed that

... "moderates" are working against the DLC - being that the DLC is a moderate organization. And, just as a comment, the DLC's membership is larger than it was in '92.

[salin]

56. Of course it is larger membership than it was in 1992

many attributed Clinton's success to the DLC and joined up (some of his success may have been dlc related - and some is, imo, tied to his charisma and very good political skills)... the influence, through positioning of consultants and strategists, grew through the nineties.

The question I have, and to which I honestly have no answer, is has there been change in membership size since, say, 2002?

Per the newer group - isn't that full of dlcers? Thought Bayh (former?current? chair of the dlc) was a part of the new group. I have the impression that it is new packaging of the same thing... sorta image reparation phase. But I could be wrong. Organizations morph for different reasons all of the time.

[sampsonblk]

35. Yes, we have to fight back hard

Hannity and others openly campaigned for Bush. Hannity himself moved his radio show to Ohio and then Florida in the few days preceding the election in order to get out the vote for Bush.

I guess its legal, but our guys have to stop pretending this stuff is okay. Its long past time to fight back. We have to expose them and ridicule them. They deserve it, and it would do a lot of good for our cause.

[CatholicEdHead]

36. AA/Ed Schultz also did similar things

Ed went all over, partly to promote his book, but he ended up in Miami on election day. Al Franken's show also was on the road around the election, plus the broadcast from the Clinton library opening.

[sampsonblk]

37. Good effort, not nearly as experienced of effective

The right-wingers have been at this since at least 1988. They have earned their millions of listeners over a long period of time. They are GOP campaign central. Ever hear Franken in a doctor's office or truck stop?

[CatholicEdHead]

60. Rush et al

also started off small. It took around 20 years for right wing radio to get to this point. AA and Ed Schultz (and other Jones talkers) have only had a single year. This long term base-building will take time.

[sampsonblk]

72. I hope they never get to that point

Rush et al are dishonest. I hope our side never gets that far. In all honesty, I don't think we ever will. It doesn't fit our view of the world. WWF-type politics is definitely suited for right-wingers.

No wonder the WWF and the GOP serve the same constituency.

[Maraya1969]

38. I agree with you 100%

These HATE radio hosts are brainwashing the US public. I have asked for boycotts before and I have called several companies telling them I was boycotting them.

Not one of these companies, (one was Pro-Flowers) said they had any inclination to change who they advertise with. We need people. We need power to take over some more stations. We need organization.

[Silverhair]

99. The companies don't care if liberals boycott them.

When a company makes a decision to advertise on Rush or Hannity, they KNOW what kind of program it is. They aren't stupid. They know that DU level liberals will get angry and boycott them. They have already written of your share of the market to be able to ramp up among the conservative section of the audience. Frequently, but not always, the products being advertised are ones that liberals are less likely to buy anyway.

[BlueManDude]

44. I agree totally - it's all about the media

Here in Boston there is wall to wall right wingery, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I think it's won governorships for the GOP.

[Pushed To The Left]

49. Right-wing talk radio

has made me more liberal! The extreme views of the right wing have motivated me to support progressive causes even more. When Bush's extreme judicial nominees were getting filibustered, it gave me great pleasure hearing Hannity and Limbaugh crying about how unfair it was. :evilgrin: When these guys complain about a group or politician, it makes me like that group or politician even more!

[IndianaGreen]

50. Russ Feingold on Radio Concentration

Ideas Forum: Radio Concentration

During the debate of the 1996 Telecommunications Act, I joined a number of my colleagues in opposing the deregulation of radio ownership rules because of concerns about the impact on consumers, artists, and local radio stations. Since its passage, the effects of the Telecommunications Act have been far worse than even I imagined.

A diverse range of people are rightly concerned about the effects of concentration and consolidation in the radio and concert industries. Concert goers have told me about higher ticket prices. Independent broadcasters, local businesses, artists, and others in Wisconsin and across the country have told me about reduced diversity and localism in the music industry. And local businesses have spoken about anti-competitive behaviors that have put them on an unfair playing field. Because of these concerns, I introduced S. 221, the Competition in Radio and Concert Industries Act of 2003, to curb media consolidation and anti-competitive practices in the radio industry.

I hope that through this forum you will share with me your thoughts on how we can return radio to the public. Please take a moment to let me know what you think about any or all of the following issues, or to share your story.

Should the radio and concert promotion industries be allowed to become further consolidated?

Do you feel that local DJs should have control over the music they play?

Do you feel that your radio station provides enough local information and/or plays enough local music?

Are you concerned about the price of tickets for concerts?

http://feingold.senate.gov/forums_radio.html

[BeachBuckeye]

54. You scored a direct hit

Right-Wing talk radio has had a profound effect on the voting public. They own a 20 to 1 advantage in hours broadcast every month. Unless we get a concentrated effort to make up the difference we will continue to lose elections.

If you don't think the radio is important then why are the radio and tv stations the first things captured when a government is overthrown?

[msongs]

55. AAR has no presence in so Cal/los angeles market except....

a small daytime only station that broadcast tape delay and edited versions of AAR programming, and their signal only goes about 40 miles and it is way east of the population base.

so why cannot some of these rich bastards who benefit from democrat graft and coruption buy a station in LA for their channel?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[OnionPatch]

66. Yes Yes Yes!!!!

I totally agree with you! And I have also personally seen quite a few normal people be converted to right-wing monsters because they started listening to the radio on the way to work and back. Maybe this doesn't happen in suburban areas as much where commutes aren't long but in rural areas people drive long distances everywhere. They commute to work, the store or often have jobs driving trucks, etc. They listen to the radio. Lots of them. Tons of them. I used to be one but I've always been too much of a die-hard liberal to be taken by the dark side. I just turned the station to music. Not so with many of my neighbors/co-workers. They were wishy-washy politically and all they needed was to hear a bunch of Limbaugh rubbish to get them voting Republican. To this day they are pathetically misinformed because they think they are getting all the news they need from their friend Rush. They've never even heard the left side of the issues at all.

[FormerDittoHead]

68. THE NATURE OF TALK RADIO LISTENERS

I have a great deal of experience with radio and talk radio since the mid 70's and I can tell you that Republicans have HIJACKED talk radio.

THE NATURE OF TALK RADIO LISTENERS IS ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT.

(meaning government and BIG BUSINESS) Hello? DNC? No answer. They're too busy collecting campaign contributions and granting 'access' to BIG BUSINESS...

With the Democrats in power (for the most part), the "establishment" was interpreted by these listeners as the Democrats.

This was the state of affairs when Rush hit the national scene with all three branches controlled by the Democratic party.

The Republicans / neo-cons who took over talk radio via syndication, however, understood that if they were to ever get power, they'd have to re-frame the argument away from anti-establishment to anti-democrat "liberal".

They've spend millions, if not hundreds of millions generating this "mind-screw" (or "frame") and now they're collecting the dividends.

We have to start making similar "investments"!

[donheld]

71. I have long been saying this

Unless we find a way to re-install the fairness doctrine into the media in general, and radio in a large way, we will lose over and over again. Air America, Democracy Now!, Free Speech TV and maybe a few others are a nice start but we have a long way to go to catch up.

[TayTay]

89. AAR almost winked out a month into operation

Their financial problems were real and it was an enterprise that almost died a-borning. A lot of the personalities at AAR had to work without paychecks in order to keep the business going. I am incredibly grateful to these folks for sticking it out. I know that AAR has a long way to go, but I am so glad that the folks at the station are still there and still learning and still fighting the good fight. AAR and DU got me through the dark times of Nov. They give me a great deal of hope for the future.

BTW, my Christmas gift this year was Sirius satellite radio. My husband understood how frustrating it was for me to try to listen to AAR with it's poor signal in Boston. I am so grateful that they are in it for the long haul!

[Liberal In Texas]

84. The perception they foster

has been noticeable.

I was talking to a friend the other night who I haven't seen for a few months, and when asked who he voted for he said, Bush. Why on earth, I asked, could you vote for him? He said that Kerry just didn't seem like a very good person.

This man is gay and unemployed right now. I told him he was voting against his best interests, but his view is tainted by the lies spewed out by the RW. I firmly believe the demonetization by the RW, especially with radio, is responsible for this kind of thinking.

We need the George Soros's of the world to start buying radio stations and fight the lies with truth. The repugs recognized that propaganda was a powerful tool long ago, and now we have to play catch up.

[JNelson6563]

85. No, we need to look in the mirror

Our problem is lack of spine. "I stand shoulder to shoulder with pResident Bush" still rings in my ears whenever I see Pelosi. Did you see F9/11? Remember the scene where the Congress-people kept contesting the 2000 election certification? The camera scanned the audience and there sat all our DEM Senators, doing nothing. What do we see again? Well we sure as hell don't see any Senator standing up to demand investigations into voter fraud.

Think of all the capitulation that has happened since the trained chimp first took office. No, Imean really tink about it all, ponder it.......now take another look at your assertion. Do you really think reich-wing radio is the problem? Or could it be our having ignored it for several years, indicating a much bigger and deeper problem within out party?

Unless we see our own failures we will never be able to correct them.

Julie

[Karenina]

86. Spines notwithstanding,

America's condition will contine its spiral downward until The People TAKE BACK THEIR AIRWAVES. It's the first thing many ex-pats notice on visits home... TVs on 24/7 radio spew... It's also easy to tell when homies who claim to be liberal listen to too much of that shit, "just to keep track of them," it becomes like watching a 21st century adaptation of "Rhinoceros. It's about HOW they process (or rather DON'T) and respond to new information. I find it quite frightening.

[Dr Fate]

93. Hillary , Kerry, or Kennedy could all go on TV TODAY...

...and call Bush a "liar" and then list each lie he has ever told, coupled with a source and a date.

Then they could demand that he "go under oath" and explain all of his untruthful statements. Then they could go on TV again the next day and say it again.

Then they could say- "...we cant do business in congress until we clear up the issue of Bush's credibility..."

Thats exactly what talk-radio teamed up with actual elected Republicans did to us in the 1990s.

The problem is not talk radio, the problm is that top Democrats dont know how to fight like republicans and talk radio does.

What is your thesis, that Repubs should "stop being mean to us?"

Screw that- the problem is tnot that they punch us in the throat (we should EXPECT that, right?), the problem is we never punch back.

[Karenina]

114. My "thesis"

is that it is NOT in the interest of "top Democrats" to buck the Mighty Wurlitzer. My "thesis" is that until the the CITIZENRY takes responsibility to TAKE BACK THE AIRWAVES realizing that a voracious parasite has crawled up its butt and is systematically disemboweling its innards, ITS CONDITION WILL CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE. RAPIDLY.

[Dr Fate]

117. And then what do we do with it once we "take it back?"

Ban all jocks who are "mean to Democrats?"

We can "take back" the dialouge TODAY by having famous people like the ones I named go on TV and raise some hell.

No one is going to listen to or grant an interview to "the citizenry." But they will give Hillary, Kennedy or Kerry a spot.

I'm not trying to argue w/ you- but "take back the airwaves" seems a little vague. I'm not even sure that "the airwaves" ever belonged to Democrats in the 1st place for us to take back.

So my question is: Once we take the airwaves "back" (assuming we did once have them), what do we do with them? Where do all the fans of RW radio go?

[Karenina]

119. Have you read Marshall McLuhan?

eom

[Dr Fate]

121. No- and neither have my aunts & uncles who listen to AM radio...

...and who also watch cable news shows.

[ruggerson]

122. You Hit The Nail On The Head

That's the big one. We have to find politicians who are as able street fighters as many of them are.

Why, for example, isn't a Dem house member doing to Tom Delay what was done by Newt Gingrich to Jim Wright??

[Dr Fate]

125. Because Republicans have guts and Democrats do not.

So sad, but true. When they all decided that Bill clinton was dishonest -they went on TV every single day and called him a "liar."

They actually brought up lies he told, or made up things he never said- the trick was they stayed on message, never apologized, never wavered. We dont even have to make stuff up- we can do what they did to us, but stay 100% factual.

I actually admire Republicans these days- they say exactly what is on their minds, they never apologize, and they dont care what reporters or their opponents say about them.

[Dr Fate]

92. BULLSEYE!!!!

Man in the mirror, baby.

We would rather play the victim than realize that there is nothing wrong with Republicans playing the game to their advantage.

Talk radio IS effective- we are not. The fact that "we are not" is what we need to look at.

CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP!!!

[KSAtheist]

87. We could start...

By getting some BETTER talk show hosts.

Al Franken and Randi Rhodes are okay; the rest are hopeless.

You can't just throw someone you think is smart and glib onto the radio and expect them to build an audience or do well. It's a lot more than that.

Limbaugh and Hannity actually had experience at smaller markets before they went national; they actually had time to hone their radio skills. As much as I disagree with their viewpoints, at least they were trained in radio and know how to host radio. Which is why shows hosted by people like Cuomo and Garofalo usually suck...they have good opinions and ideas--they're even charismatic--but they don't know how to do talk radio.

As I said, Randi is good--most people had never heard of her before the AA startup, but she had experience in Florida, thus proving my point. Franken is learning. But, in the end, focusing on radio talent rather than name prestige would help out a lot.

[Dr Fate]

91. WRONG. Our FAILURE to counter act it is killing us.

Stop playing the victim & look in the mirror.

Democrats could go on TV everyday and counter-act Republican lies. T

Democrats could invite talk radio hosts to debate them in formats where they cannot cut off the mike or control the topic.

When they refuse, go back on TV and say somthing like "See- Rush is a liar who is hiding somthing- that is why he is too scared to debate me."

The problem is, DEMS wont do this because "strategists" tell them to "ignore talk radio, its just entertainment"

Democrats could try fresh, "radical" methods of taking these guys on and controlling the message- but they refuse.

We all need to stop crying just because Republicans are playing the game properly.

[Silverhair]

94. The problem is that people won't listen to liberal talk radio.

Rush & Hannity are on so many stations because people WANT to listen to them. No one if forcing them to turn on the radios and tune to them. Talk show hosts representing the liberal view have been tried, and they have flopped. No one listens, so they can't sell advertising, so the shows lose money for the station.

Whatever happened to Gore's plan last year to launch commercial liberal talk radio?

[Bouncy Ball]

98. He's launching a TV network in 2005

and it is on schedule to start in 2005.

Your premise is wrong, actually. Think of all the people who voted for Kerry, especially in red states. We are DYING for liberal radio. My best friend just got Sirius radio (satellite) in her car for that VERY REASON. So she could listen to left wing talk shows.

Sheesh.

I'm considering doing the same thing.

Right wing radio goes by its better descriptor: HATIO.

[Silverhair]

102. I heard Rush for the first time in '92.

At the time he was followed by a liberal guy on the same station. After a few months, the radio station dropped both. They were flooded with calls & letters demanding Rush they get Rush back. Very few wanted the liberal back.

Rush used to do a lot more humor back then, and I have to admit, he was very skilled. The liberal guy just sounded preachy and like a he was nagging.

The point is that there WAS a liberal alternative even then. But he flopped.

Even if you got equal broadcast time, you would STILL have to get people to tune in & listen, and in numbers greater than you and a few of your friends.

[Bouncy Ball]

104. The numbers ARE greater than a few of my friends.

Why are you against liberal talk radio?

[DaedelusNemo]

127. Not true - that's the republican spin

Fact is they were subsidizing those shows for a long time to get them off the ground, and the liberal talk shows haven't had those same deep pockets. But they are already gaining listeners, even though they're being frozen out by the much-merged media corps.

Certainly individual talent plays a big role. You have to subsidize a bunch of people and see who succeeds.

[thebigdonkey]

103. We have NPR

[Dr Fate]

106. NPR opposed the war????????????????????????????????

And supported Kerry?

Can you back that up?

We are not talking about factual reporting that happens to make Bush look bad, we are talking about actual, one-sided advocacy like Rush, Fox, MSNBC, ect...

[Left coast liberal]

108. I've had it with NPR. I'll never give them another cent. n/t

[AngryAmish]

113. It is the nature of conservative talk radio listeners

and market segmentation.

[kskiska]

115. This country's been split into "teams"

by people like Pigboy and his ilk. It's no longer a question of who the best candidate is, but "whose team are you on?" It matters not who heads the team. It's become an us against them mentality.

[DaedelusNemo]

126. Just like pro wrestling.. loud trash talking, then the smackdown /nt

[IronLionZion]

116. The Democratic party is killing the Democratic party IMHO

we need to be more organized, united, and accepting of diverse opinions and cultures without insulting any culture (like rural Christians)