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[Name removed]

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[Hep]

1. He would have blown an opportunity had he NOT come out that way.

To understand, one would have to have a basic understanding of what Dean's campaign is about.

I won't waste time by trying to explain it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. Did Iowa have a basic understanding of what Dean's campaign is about?

Maybe they did.

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. he's had plenty of time to make his case

[Hep]

36. Some of Iowa did

Others bought into mischaracterizations. Still others didn'twant to take the challenge: They'd rather remain complacent.

[beaconess]

43. Apparently 82% of Iowa voters are too clueless to understand

what Dean's campaign is really about.

Maybe the problem is not with the voters but with the candidate.

[Paragon]

2. Click and learn

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=146127

[Democrats unite]

17. Yea I learned someone here...

Doesn't like Clark. Oh well Can't win them all. Just ask Dean.

[OpenMindedDem]

3. I think he look out of control and un-presidential

Edwards looked calm and in control :)

[ramapo]

4. Edwards made great points

Edwards delivered the simple and effective message of "Two Americas".

Dean was frightening. I think he looked really, really bad. It's a shame but I think he did himself a lot of damage.

[BurtWorm]

8. Are you speaking as a Dean backer?

;)

[Bill McBlueState]

16. He did look bad.

As a Dean supporter, who has donated to his campaign five times, I think Dean came off looking pretty silly.

Yes, I know his campaign is about energizing new voters and bringing people back into the political process, but there is a time to act the way he did and this was not it.

Someone from his campaign should have been watching Edwards to see what tone had been set, and -- to see when Edwards was finished so Dean didn't have the appearance of cutting in on him.

Providing fodder for all the talk shows was the wrong way to go, and I can only hope people forget about this quickly.

[Greyhawk]

89. Dean sounded really bad...

I'm sorry, but I just listened to an audio clip of Dean's speech last night and that "yaaaaaa" thing he did at the end of one section made him sound really bad. Dean has done a lot for the party, but that's gonna hurt everyone.

He sounded like a guy at a high school pep rally, but not a President. If you want a pep rally leader, fine. But it won't fly for those who are looking for assurances that Dean is reliable and stable during times of big security concerns.

[BurtWorm]

5. And whom do you support?

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. the 'overlay' was especially unfortunate.

first, dean's people should have held him off until Edwards was done speaking. that's not me being a Edward's guy. that's considered common courtesy plus avoiding the risk that the newsee's DON'T switch away. that didn't happen but what did happen was to go from Edwards hopeful joy at the prospect of his chances at going at bush to dean's hyper enthusiasm. the overlay didn't play well.

[DaisyUCSB]

6. I think he hurt himself with that speech. I've seen/heard 2 shows make fun

of it already.

Last night on Jimmy Kimmel Live, they played his "arizona, new mexico..... yeahhhh!!! " and then Jimmy said, "he can't be president, he's insane!"

Then by BF was listening to Howard Stern, the news segment, and they played the same clip, and they all laughed for about 5 minutes, because Dean sounded like Artie Lange's AC/DC impression, which is a running joke on the show, and they kept using Dean's "yeah" as a sound effect after that

I can't say there maligning of it wasn't hilarious

of course, I was angry that Dean cut off John Edwards fantastic speech last night

[FredScuttle]

27. uh-oh, Dean has lost the moron demographic

Kimmel and Howard Stern mocking Dean? Well, I guess it's all over but the shouting. And when did Dean order his lackeys at the networks to cut off Edwards' speech? They are his lickspittle toadies, aren't they?

Pray tell, did they happen to mention Kerry or Edwards at all? After all, they were the big "winners", weren't they?

[DaisyUCSB]

47. So you're calling me and my boyfriend morons?

Sorry I think the Jimmy Kimmel show is funny, and I know a producer who works on it. And I don't think there's anything better on the radio when you're driving 30 miles back to my campus than to listen to Howard Stern.

And both of them did mention the other candidates and played clips from them. But they didn't have anything to make fun of.

And they'll probably play it on other shows, but those are the only 2 big national live shows I've seen since Dean made the speech. It will probably be on others.

And about the networks going to Dean, it was Dean's CHOICE to start when he did, when Edwards was still giving his speech. And although I'm undecided, that was inexcusable to alot of people who were enjoying Edwards speech

[TLM]

59. So basicaly we need bland and boring dems to run...

Sure they'll lose to Bush, but hey at least Stern won't make fun of them.

[tjdee]

61. Why go to the extreme?

There is a difference between being passionate and being reckless.

Nobody wants a screamer in the White House (thanks mikehiggins)-- but duh...nobody wants a Lieberman either (apologies to anyone who thinks that Lieberman is hot and exciting!).

[He loved Big Brother]

86. My thoughts exactly

Kimmel and Stern, oh no! ;)

[BurtWorm]

7. I'm amazed at the trivia political people focus on.

Dems and Republicans.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

15. I haven't seen this meme being perpetuated anywhere but GD 2004.

:eyes:

[maddezmom]

22. they talked about it in detail this am on CSPAN

and played the clip.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

42. Why do you suppose they're doing that, Pete?

What is "news" about Dean's address, really? What are the people who are making something out of this really trying to convey? That Dean is too loud to be president? Look at the way you and other ABD people are playing this, as a major disqualifying moment, as if all those other moments you pushed as disqualifying were not quite as major as this one.

You're trying to promote this image of Dean as scary, something to run and hide from, in order to promote yet another "safe" passionless Democrat--or should I say, the kind of Democrat you "know" is passionate because he will calmly and politely tell you he is.

What do you guys think Dean is too passionate about, anyway?

[Name removed]

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[TLM]

62. "That's NOT my idea of a gracious concession speech"

Oh I see Dean fired up the troops rather than giving up... and supporters of other bland and boring candidates do not like that, so they try to mock Dean for not being bland and boring.

Check.

Dean should be like Kerry and just be silent when his voice is raw... but then the same folks would be attacking Dean for giving up and pointing to a mellow speech as prove Dean fire has been snuffed out and Dean campaign is over.

There is nothing that Dean can do or say that you folks won't attack... no matter what he does or says this same group of ABD folks will attack it as the worst mistake ever.

[BurtWorm]

64. Also, who makes concession speeches until they've lost everything?

The primaries are just starting. No concessions. Sorry if this offends supporters of other candidates, but that's just how it is.

[jonnyblitz]

75. you said it.

they are blowing this out of proportion to prop up their candidate. doesn't take rocket science to figure that one out.

[diamondsoul]

79. I just listened to a clip-

and, YIKES! Now this comes from someone obviously not a supporter, but usually I LIKE listening to Dean speak! Seriously, he's always been a good public speaker and if you were a fly on the wall you'd probably be stunned to see me saying "Go HOWARD!" repeatedly during the debates.

As an objective person, reaching the point where I really don't care whether Dean gets the nomination or not, that period of screaming was probably not one of his finest moments. Sorry TLM. You make me nuts sometimes, but I honestly like reading your posts anyway, and I feel bad that you're bothered by this.

Please don't excuse it when your candidate flubs. It doesn't help him or you. Personally I think Kucinich flubbed with his deal with Edwards yesterday. I think he'd have done better if he'd just said "Stick together and don't quit for anyone!". They've all screwed up. Look at Kucinich's pie chart on the radio schtick and how much ridicule that got. Dean can bounce back from this.

*edited for left out word

[tjdee]

45. There's passionate and then there's recklessness.

Dean was reckless last night.

There are those of us who don't like Dean--but that doesn't mean that our observations have no merit.

Because he's the frontrunner he's going to be on all the networks. He knows this. He knows how he is perceived. His behavior last night should have reflected this knowledge. Dean's attitude/demeanor is the gift that keeps giving to those people.

[Sophree]

77. Reckless and undignified.

And very inappropriate. I add it to the long list of things that make me question and distrust Dean's judgment.

He also handed his coat to Senator Harken. He treated a distinguished Senator like his handservant. Very bad.

Besides all that, Hi tjdee!!! Our guy did great last night! I fell asleep and napped after a long day yesterday at the beginning of the caucuses and woke up around 9 pm to hear the fantastic news about a strong second place finish.

[tjdee]

87. Hey! I know!

I was really shocked. I've been out of it for a few weeks here and was just so pleasantly surprised by Edwards' showing.

Here's hoping the momentum continues!

[a_random_joel]

91. I noticed that too!

He also handed his coat to Senator Harken. He treated a distinguished Senator like his handservant. Very bad.

Not good...

[returnable]

39. It's in the NYT, the Washington Post, on the cable channels...

...like it or not, this "meme" is out there.

[K8-EEE]

10. I Think He Blew It

At least for me, I had been leaning toward Dean until last night. I LIKED the Angry Dean; but the silly, giggling Dean, that was strange. It freaked me out!

[w4rma]

11. I didn't see it, but I'll probably watch it at some point soon

However, from the comments I've read about it from non-Dean supporters, I think that the concession speech definitely hurt him in the short run and maybe in the long run if he doesn't change a few tactics.

[Name removed]

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[rodbarnett]

25. Self Deleted

Self Deleted

[soleft]

46. I said last night that it felt like watching Oswald getting shot

Now, that's gross hyperbole I know, but that's how shocked I felt in the moment. AND I AM A DEAN SUPPORTER.

[fishnfla]

72. same here with my wife and I

made us feel uncomfortable.

I think Dean was feeling the moment of the live crowd,fine. But it didnt play well across the nation on TV

[tjdee]

13. To Dean SUPPORTERS--no. To MOST OTHERS--yes.

Obviously many Dean supporters LIKE his style.
They obviously LIKE when he gets all pumped.

What I would be concerned about (as I'm sure the Dean camp is) are the other undecided voters in the other 49 states. The Dean supporters and the Dean campaign seem to think that his attitude is effective. For better or worse that's Dean.

It's still up in the air.

[Clark Can WIN]

24. Here's a good test, can you see your mom or your grandma

watching that speech and saying "yes, this is the man I want in the White House".

[lovedems]

26. I don't have a candidate yet but I am still "out" regarding his speech

last night. I wasn't impressed by it all and I will admit I was little freaked out by it, but I am not quite willing to hold it against him yet. I am patient and will see what happens in NH.

[LibInternationalist]

18. where can said concession speech be seen?

online, that is... don't have cable news channels

[Blitz]

56. Here's the video

I think that Drudge only has audio.

This isn't the whole speech as it doesn't include the Spanish part, but you'll get the drift ... :

It's on Foxnews.com:

http://www.foxnews.com

Look for "Dean: 'We Will Not Give Up'" under "Video" right on the front page.

[tjdee]

68. All I get is a sickening FOX promo...

God. Trent Lott talking about what Iowa means for the Democrats.
WhatEVER Fox. Ugh.

But...can't see the speech. Hmm.

[Blitz]

76. It works for me

But check out post #65 for a more complete link that may work for you. It starts from Harkin's intro. The Fox clip is supposed to play right after the promo.

[tishaLA]

57. Someone posted a link to it

If you search the GD2004 boards, you'll find it

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. it shows his campaign cannot react to circumstances

it they cannot overcome that, i think it's fatal and it should be.

we can not go to the GE with a candidate that can only roll with the punches rather than adapt to keep from taking the punches.

[KittyWampus]

20. Dean Should Have Had TWO Speeches Prepared

His campaign staff failed him BIG TIME.

Dean was obviously overtired and SHOULD have been handled appropriately.

Edit: IMO, Dean's supporters have failed him Big Time as well.

Every time Dean has made a SIGNIFICANT mistake his supporters respond by showering him with money.

After a while it looked to me like rewarding a child for repeated, inappropriate behavior.

[bearfartinthewoods]

55. good point

she-bear and i were talking about that a couple months ago. the absolute worse thing a candidate can consider himself is teflon coated. you just cannot continue to assume you can do no wrong. the whole 'contribute when he blows it' campaign was a bad idea. it inured him to adjusting his message as time passed because his money was tied to continuing in the status quo.

[NJCher]

28. yeah, he blew an oppt'y but it's no biggie

I saw it, was tending toward Dean before the speech, now I'm definitely leaning another way. But that's for now. This incident is but a blip and will soon be forgotten. God only knows how many gaffes bush has gone through. Do we play "fool me once" here anymore? Of course not; there's all new fodder.

Campaigns are like lawsuits and one can't be deterred by a bad move or a temporary lapse in composure. The big picture's what is important and this Dean speech is definitely a blip.


Cher

[Rowdyboy]

29. Last year Dean was my second choice behind Clark

Last week he had dropped to third, behind Kerry;
Last night he dropped into the Sharpton/Lieberman group as totally unelectable. I'm beginning to question his appropriateness as a VICE presidential candidate. What a sad performance for a supposedly serious candidate.

[edzontar]

58. And Clark is now my least, last choice.

Thanks to all the attacks here recently.

Luckily, Clark is probably toast now, with Kerry and Edwards on the rise.

[Karmadillo]

31. From the Washington Post: Dean explains 'explosive' speech

I didn't post this as a separate thread because I think we're already in overkill on the speech. Story gives an idea of what Dean was trying to achieve. It wasn't his finest moment by a long shot, but coverage of the speech (ad nauseum) allows the media to avoid discussing the issues the Democrats are raising to make their case against the criminal in chief.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31827-2004Jan20.html

Howard Dean's spent part of the morning today explaining what one network television interviewer called his "explosive" speech Monday night telling supporters he would not give up, with NBC's Katie Couric telling him that "some people watching feared you might implode."

"Do you think things got a little out of control and you got a little over the top?" she asked Dean on the Today Show. "Can you explain that?"

"Thirty-five hundred young people showed up in Iowa to help me win the caucuses," he said. "We didn't win, but I thought I owed them a little bit of fun. We're going to have some fun in this race."

"But some people watching feared you might implode," Couric said, adding that "in the New York Times this morning it says, 'At his post- caucus rally Monday night, Dr. Dean looked more like Howard Beale, the angry anchor in 'Network,' than Marcus Welby MD, while Mr. Kerry was every inch the veteran senator he is.'"

more...

[KittyWampus]

35. Dean Was Clearly Over Compensating. And Never Thanked The Voters

who caucused for him.

[Sophree]

81. We're going to have fun!

Dean is so toast! I have a test to predict who will win in sports contests- If a coach claims, we're going to go out there and have a good time/to have "fun," that team almost ALWAYS loses. I'd say about 95% of the time.

[Twig]

32. Does anyone have a link to what happened to Dean

last night? I heard a slight blurb this morning about a "howl", but I can't find anything yet.

Thanks.

TWIG

[rodbarnett]

37. ***** LINK HERE*****

Dean Speech

[Individualist]

33. You're right

I don't care what you think. Passion is good! Anger is good! I'm behind Dean 100% and am sending him a donation today.

[Dogmudgeon]

34. Just what the heck did he do?

Reading the responses here, I get the impression he re-enacted the scene from 2001 where the protohuman apes encountered the Monolith.

Are we parsing Dean's behavior a little too closely, or has he had a nervous breakdown? Or what? I haven't exactly been glued to the TV, but I haven't seen it yet.

--bkl

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Merlin]

40. I'm a Dean supporter. But he reminded me of Nixon last night.

After his defeat in the '62 Calleeephoneeeaaahhh governor's race (to Jerry Brown's father), Nixon held his angry press conference where he pretended to be trying to be funny, and announced "Now you won't have Nixon to kick around any more."

This horrific Dean appearance resulted from Howard's unwillingness to listen to the advice of others, and his habit of going postal at the end of his speeches (where he rants, ceaselessly, "You have the power!").

I've felt like the lone stranger criticizing him for that kind of behaviour. Now it has dealt him a serious, if not mortal, blow. He's running for President, damn it! He's got to appear to be PRESIDENTIAL. Hello?

[GumboYaYa]

41. I'm a big Dean supporter and have

been heavily involved with the campaign here in Missouri. Dean lost me last night.

That speech was horrible. I enjoy Dean's passion and have argued at length that he is not angry.

Last night, he did everything in his power to undermine these arguments and to tank his campaign. Whoever advised him to go give that speech needs to be fired.

In losing, Dean confirmed all the reasons people went with Kerry and Edwards. To the die-hards, we love his passion. To the other 99.9% of the Democrats out there, Dean looked like a raving lunatic. Appearances matter in politics. If Dean doesn't change his attitude in public soon, I'll be volunteering my time to the Edwards campaign.

[LuminousX]

48. We'll have to wait and see

[Loonman]

49. Is anything bigger than Dean's ego?

Anything?

[Nicholas_J]

50. Lets look at it from the moments prior to the caucus beginning

On C-Span, they brought the caucuses over a major Iowa TV network, and in the hour before the caucus began, the newscasters who were stationed with the 4 major candidates gave lists of the 4 most important things that each candidate must do to optomize their chances of doing well in the caucuses. The last item to come up in Deans list of four was the reporter holding up an orange ski cap and stating that everyone in Iowa has seen these, they are the caps worn by Dean campaign supporter, and because Dean has fallen a bit in the polls for the Iowa Caucus, he has brought in 4000 of these supporters to try to convince the undecided to support Dean. It was recommended that Dean make sure that these supporters simply try to talk to the undecided, but not to annoy or anger them. This was giving recognition to a tendency that many supporters of other candidates, and ex-supporters of Dean have noted in many of Deans die-hard supporters. Deans own supporters likely failed him in the hours before his concession speech.

Besides, many Dean supporters beleive and state with great force that Dean alone wites all of his own speeches and it is Dean who is running the show and cite this as another example of his leadership.

It seem to fall into the, anything that happens wrong in Deans campign, whether a speech, or contradictions in Deans stances over his campign have been due someone elses fault, and not Deans.

This is hardly among the qualities that one expects, even demands in its leaders. To try to blame others for ones own errors and shortcomings is not leadership.

Whether it is Dean himself or his most die hard supporters who try to present Dean as infallable, and incapable of error, such attempts do Dean far more harm than good, and such efforts also are largely responsible for the suggestions that the campaign supporters that were sent out to assist Dean in Iowa not anger or annoy those they are trying to get to support Dean. People tend to get rather angry at candidates who are made to appear so egotistical as to be presented as infallable. Whether this comes from Dean or from his most extreme supporters it is not an appearance that is a positive in the realm of politics, especially presidential politics.

The fact that Edwards exudes the opposite qualities of tact, diplomacy, and humility, is in part responsible for Edwards excellent showing in Iowa. Edwards speech after the caucus is a model of the qualities that indicate that he has the right stuff for the oval office. The voters of Iowa saw that stuff in Edwards, and responded to it in the only way that counts. They voted for it.

[Nicholas_J]

51. Lets look at it from the moments prior to the caucus beginning

On C-Span, they brought the caucuses over a major Iowa TV network, and in the hour before the caucus began, the newscasters who were stationed with the 4 major candidates gave lists of the 4 most important things that each candidate must do to optomize their chances of doing well in the caucuses. The last item to come up in Deans list of four was the reporter holding up an orange ski cap and stating that everyone in Iowa has seen these, they are the caps worn by Dean campaign supporter, and because Dean has fallen a bit in the polls for the Iowa Caucus, he has brought in 4000 of these supporters to try to convince the undecided to support Dean. It was recommended that Dean make sure that these supporters simply try to talk to the undecided, but not to annoy or anger them. This was giving recognition to a tendency that many supporters of other candidates, and ex-supporters of Dean have noted in many of Deans die-hard supporters. Deans own supporters likely failed him in the hours before his concession speech.

Besides, many Dean supporters beleive and state with great force that Dean alone wites all of his own speeches and it is Dean who is running the show and cite this as another example of his leadership.

It seem to fall into the, anything that happens wrong in Deans campign, whether a speech, or contradictions in Deans stances over his campign have been due someone elses fault, and not Deans.

This is hardly among the qualities that one expects, even demands in its leaders. To try to blame others for ones own errors and shortcomings is not leadership.

Whether it is Dean himself or his most die hard supporters who try to present Dean as infallable, and incapable of error, such attempts do Dean far more harm than good, and such efforts also are largely responsible for the suggestions that the campaign supporters that were sent out to assist Dean in Iowa not anger or annoy those they are trying to get to support Dean. People tend to get rather angry at candidates who are made to appear so egotistical as to be presented as infallable. Whether this comes from Dean or from his most extreme supporters it is not an appearance that is a positive in the realm of politics, especially presidential politics.

The fact that Edwards exudes the opposite qualities of tact, diplomacy, and humility, is in part responsible for Edwards excellent showing in Iowa. Edwards speech after the caucus is a model of the qualities that indicate that he has the right stuff for the oval office. The voters of Iowa saw that stuff in Edwards, and responded to it in the only way that counts. They voted for it.

[Cory]

52. It comes down to a simple factor

Dean's speech last night was clearly a mistake. To say that "you don't understand his campaign" may be true but politically speaking, there is no way regardless of how someone "understands" it that Dean could ever beat Bush. In the end that's what it is all about.

Being overly committed to any candidate at this point in time is a mistake. I've even read some comments by hard-core Dean supporters that if it's not Dean then they should leave the party. That would be the most unthinkable thing you could do today. . . abandon the chance to beat GWB.

Not being a Democrat myself, I'm very proud of how the people in Iowa voted last night. They took into consideration the electability of the candidate over Bush.

Dean in the end was never truly viable within the general. Rhetoric will only get you so far. America is in desperate need of a statesmen to repair all of the damage done in the last several years.

[displacedtexan]

63. Well said.

"America is in desperate need of a statesmen to repair all of the damage done in the last several years."
While I am grateful for Dr. dean's enthusiasm, I agree that we need a statesman in the oval office.
During Dr. Dean's speech last night, I imagined world leaders wincing. Frankly, I expected more dignity from the Dean/Witter stock brokerage family candidate.

[redqueen]

78. Correction

He's not related to the 'Dean' of Dean/Witter.

[Snivi Yllom]

53. Dean is still the front runner

It's not over....

[mikehiggins]

54. but this IS the man

That is what scares so many people who might otherwise still be in his camp. He is too hot, too willing to look more comfortable on a WWF stage (or is that WWE now?).

His speeches are barnburners at times but, like Andy Griffin in A Face In The Crowd, he doesn't seem to care that somebody left the microphone on.

Nobody wants a screamer in the White House.

[tjdee]

60. "Nobody wants a screamer in the White House."

That is the crux of it.

Nobody wants a screamer in the White House.

Howard Dean is going to have to do a lot of work to bring it back around.

[Blitz]

65. Here's a more complete clip from C-Span

Just click on "Howard Dean Reaction . . ."

http://www.c-span.org/VideoArchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,&Page=2

[redqueen]

66. I'm a Kucinich supporter

But my husband preferred Dean. Until last night. He could not believe the speech Dean gave. He likes his moderate policies, but the howl and the repeated 'si, se puede's turned him totally off. I don't know who he'll support now.

Just for the record, we both also really disliked Kucinich's 'UN in, US out' chant from the Iowa lunch thing that Harkin hosted (the one where Clinton spoke so well about everyone).

[markus]

67. My 8-year old son's read: "Dad, I think he drank too much coffee"

I'm a Dean supporter, and that was not what I wanted to hear at 5:50 am this morning while drinking my morning coffee in front of CNN.

I share Dean's anger. I also manage it, and I'm careful what I say to whom. Maybe this is because I was a reporter once, and had to guard my opiions. Perhaps it was time spent in professional politics as mouthpiece for someone else, where the same rule applied.

I've never clearly understood what "jumped the shark" means, but if you tell me that Dean did that last night, I will at last understand.

[Frederic Bastiat]

70. LOL

[kerry-is-my-prez]

69. They will use this to affirm the "meme" that Dean is unstable. Fair or not

this will be repeated more and more by people and the media. This had been sort of whispered before last night...

[tjdee]

71. And Dean has himself to thank.

No matter what you think of Dean--certainly it is not "vile" or ignore worthy to state that he should have shown more self-control with the knowledge of how he is being played by the media.

[incapsulated]

73. It's not going to kill him

Although it was a very bad move. It all depends on how many people saw it, and how much the media plays it up.

Luckily for Dean, the SOTU tonight will probably knock it off the radar. Unless it's brought up again before NH, but I doubt it.

[TheDonkey]

74. The media is having a field day with that painful video clip

of Dean shouting states and then pumping his hand in the air screaming "yeeeeaaaaaa" in a very odd voice.

His anger used to be "real" and passionate but that was forced yelling and very awkward energy. It must have been bad advice or bad thinking on the Dr's spot.

[diamondsoul]

85. Someone else mentioned upthread

that his voice was raw. I can believe that with all the stumping and work they've ALL been doing, and Dean's tendency to be loud and powerful anyway.

That would account for the first thing that struck me which was that his voice sounded so wierd! He really sounded insane in that part where he yelled "YEEEAH!!", but anyone would have with a raw throat. His advisors should have told him not to get too rowdy and to save his voice and energy for NH. Not to mention with his throat already not doing well he could seriously have damaged his vocal chords and been rendered without a voice at all doing something like that, and that shocks me with him being a physician. He should know better and been thinking ahead to today and this week.

[KFC]

80. Dean becomes unglued way too easily

I prefer a candidate with real authority, not a red-faced screamer.

[John_H]

82. I can't stop watching it. More please.

[quaker bill]

83. I have seen the whole speech in context

It was a good speech given to motivate the troops. There was no bad decision making here. Harkin's speech built into it and helped set the theme.

The speech was appropriately polite in regard to giving thanks to the supporters and the people of Iowa and offered congratulations the winners.

Dean is not backing down, nor should he.

Before the age of TV and managed candidates, strong rhetoric was the cornerstone of politics. Personally, I liked the speech.

[Snivi Yllom]

84. you can't blow anything

when all the candidates and the entire media is allied against you.

[fob]

88. Uh, can anyone point me to video of what everyone's seeing here?

I watched the entire 20 minute 41 second clip from post 65 via the cspan link and saw NOTHING along the lines being discussed here.

People are talking about an angry guy who disses Edwards and Kerry, who howls in a strange voice and repeats, "Yes, We Will! or Yes, We Can!" in Spanish (Si, se puede!) that is disturbing. Dean also abuses Senator Harkin as his "coatboy" along the way. They also are out of their minds over Dean's constant yelping, or wailing after every sentence.

Where is THAT video?

I saw a pumped up Sen Harkin introduce "The next President of the United States, Howard Dean!" Dean came on stage excited and gesturing(not wildly or out of place-like but in tune with the moment), hugged someone and took off his jacket and handed it to Senator Harkin, who then passes it off to someone else. Dean then rolls up his sleeves(kinda a trademark, crowd roars) and pulls out an orange cap(representative of the field supporters, crowd roars again) and starts his speech. He thanks supporters and the like, even the ENTIRE STATE OF IOWA, and says that "If a year ago someone said WE would take third in Iowa he would have taken that" - paraphrased). He vowed to continue fighting and listed off states that are next, his voice growing louder and more gruff as the list grew. He did end it with a YEEAAHHH!, but nothing so animal as described here. There was the high fives and arm gestures, but nothing so distant beyond Sen Harkin's own gesticulations. He mentioned congratulatory phone calls to Kerry and Edwards for a job well done and to Gephardt for his work and years of service. He took some cues from the crowd when someone started yelling out additional states to fight in, that were not so hard to figure out were the home states of the other candidates, and might I add he included Al Sharptons state where other candidates may not have mentioned(He singled out Mass, NC, AK, NY, CT and forgot OH in this particular chant). Someone else in the crowd must have started saying something in Spanish because Dean responded in Spanish himself, evidently joining in the "Si, se puede!" chant and shouting that several times over the mic. He smiled the whole time he wasn't speaking and some of the time he was. He closed announcing his standard closing speech and then shook hands with EVERYONE on stage with him before turning to the crowd one last time and then exiting.

THAT'S the video I saw.

One poster hear said her husband was leaning Dean until the Si, se puede! chant, Why was that such a dealbreaker? As for the other views, I have no idea. I have a feeling this is one of those times where the spin of the event becomes the transcript of the event(see Wellstone Memorial), but maybe not.

Anyone?

fob - Full disclosure - Still planning on voting for Al Sharpton at this point

[a_random_joel]

90. As a Dean supporter... I must admit

Last night was over the top.

I understand the passion behind it, but it was not smart from a strategic sense. The one thing Dean cannot appear to be at this point is OUT OF CONTROL. And that is exactly how he came off last night.

I am waiting to see how NH goes, but I must say at this point I would not be entirely disappointed with a Kerry nomination.

My .02