flip the conyers/senate scenario around...

[salin]

would a republican senator stand up to stop the electors if the republican white house was at stake?

In previous eras I would guess, no. That neither side would (the whole image of elections and all that). But in this era of bull in the china shop... full frontal assault... play to the death republicans... would have to guess that someone would do it. In previous years the who is obvious... Senator No (Helms). Today - lots of radicals to choose from.

Back to the present. As I state elsewhere - I honestly do not think that this tactic will change the election outcome. I have no allusion that the level of fraud that is provable will over come the numbers. However I think that such an event would uncover a LOT of fraud. Different types of fraud. And the whole spectacle would be covered by the media. And in the midst of the coverage those old post 2000 election media stories from Florida would get replayed, and replayed.. and eventually strike deep into the public psyche... public opinion of Bush, already sinking, would drop - perception of fraud and illegitimacy would climb.

Would we benefit from an emasculated administration? You bet. Especially when they aggressively push their radical agenda. Suddenly Congressional repubs have an ugly choice... bow under deLay's arm twisting and threats - but hurt your own reelection efforts AND possibly deal a very hard blow to your party's sustainability... or vote against bushco - leaving bush able to accomplish next to nothing.

Who said some of us haven'tlearned a little bit of hardball thinking by watching 12 years of the house GOP?!

[annabanana]

1. I agree with you post, with one exception:

you state:
"And the whole spectacle would be covered by the media."

Sadly, I don't think we can take this for granted. Keith Olberman would cover a little. The 24/7 gabbers would "tsk" it with "those wacky leftists" attitudes and it would never make it to CBS.

That said, I believe we MUST proceed. It has to down on the record that these hearings were held. I sincerely hope we can get one (ONE!) Senator who thinks that historical accuracy is worth the risk.

[salin]

2. Am suggesting that if it moves forward (stalling the seating of the

electors) THEN there would be a media spectacle. And is that media spectacle that starts the ball rolling.

[annabanana]

5. I'm wondering what kind of spectacle it will be..

Would they start dumping on Conyers a la Swiftboat liars? I fear they will rake him over the coals. What they would do to a Senator who'd lent their name would be very very ugly.

Major Cojones required here.

[salin]

6. the eye has to be on the prize

and this case the prize is the long-term need to so weaken the radical republicans that they can not continue to erode our democratic systems, our constitutional systems, and most importantly our viability as an economically self-sufficient society that provides safety nets to those left behind.

[Walt Starr]

3. Oh I agree, had Kerry won there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind

the republican senators would have joined in lockstep and cojntested several state's electors, throwing the choice to the House where Bush would have won.

And that, my firends, is why they were never worried in this election. The fix was in and that fix was the House and Senate.

[salin]

4. and yet their margin of control

is relatively thin in terms of popular support. That despite a drudging in the constant drone of the rw media talking heads. They keep going radical - keep pushing their will upon the public with an iron fist...and I do believe public tides will turn.

[Old and In the Way]

7. Perhaps the results won't change.

But, what is important are perceptions. The Democrats need to show they can act as a unified body and make a stand for the majority coalition. They are the injured party....when are they going to start acting like one? It's time to make a concerted effort to expose systematic election fraud and provide real reform to a process that is so flawed, neither party can ever have confidence in the results again.

It's smart politics, too. What do Democrats have to lose? Well, if they don't contest, they could lose their constituency....and if the coalition splinters, we'll be living under legitimate Republican rule for generations to come. This new Democratic Congress had better stand united and show the Republicans that it is not "business as usual".