Politics and America's religious divide

[question everything]

Politics and America's religious divide

By Al Swanson
January 2, 2005

In a way, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, the Democratic vice presidential candidate who spoke of two Americas during his unsuccessful run for his party's presidential nomination, was right. But the two Americas that decided the presidential election were not exactly the rich and affluent America and the America that lives paycheck to paycheck Edwards described in his stump speech.

A pundit said the outcome was determined more by people who go to church on Sunday and shop at Wal-Mart – and those who rarely attend church and wouldn't be caught dead at Wal-Mart. Conservative fundamentalist religious groups are flexing their muscle after taking credit for re-electing President George W. Bush. A well-organized Christian right is looking for a tangible payoff and is not likely to go the way of "soccer moms" – who faded as a political force after Sept. 11, 2001. The agenda has changed from fighting Communism in the 1950s, '60s, '70s and '80s to domestic issues like opposing abortion and homosexuality.

(snip)

The polarization of America, it seems, is about more than red and blue states – Republican or Democratic politics. It's about lifestyle and attitude buttressed by partisan media choices that tend to reinforce existing views, opinions and prejudices rather challenging them or demand respect for alternative ideas.

(snip)

Christian evangelicals who have been mobilizing around a conservative agenda for 35 years are elated about a Bush second term. They expect follow through on appointment of anti-abortion judges to federal courts, including the Supreme Court. Bush has said his personal faith gave him "the freedom to do the right thing even if it doesn't poll well."

(snip)

The Justice Department filed a friend-of-the-court brief asking Supreme Court justices to rule in favor of the constitutionality of displaying the Ten Commandants in public courthouses. The high court banned displays of the Ten Commandants in public schools 24 years ago. The next four years may be the high-water mark for religious conservatives, and the Bush domestic agenda will include elements of its "moral mandate." Bush reads the Bible, prays daily, participates in Bible studies and attends church regularly. He doesn't shop at Wal-Mart, but then he doesn't have to pinch pennies.

Find this article at:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050102/news_mz1e2swanson.html

Swanson covers urban affairs for United Press International.

[Erika]

1. When are the Right Wing Evangelicals going to insist...

on Christ's Golden Rule be posted in public places?

You know the Christ who believed in the children and the poor and who taught to treat others as you would like to be treated?

[Iris]

2. How about "You who are without sin, cast the first stone."

I was thinking about that story in terms of the gay marriage thing. I mean, if they think it's a sin, why not look at their own lives before making a judgment against them.



(Please - don't flame me! I don't think being gay is a sin, but I was trying to see it from the point of view of people who vote according to their perception of what is right and wrong.)

[Erika]

6. I agree totally

Christ stopped a prostitute from being stoned. He washed the feet of the poor. He taught to forgive 7 times 7.

These right wing evangelicals aren't preaching anything Christ taught. Yet Christ faced the ultimate sacrifice willingly and with grace. My personal opinion is that you have a lot of screwed up evangelicals such as Bush, Robertson, and Falwell who are far more interested in foreign investment returns than Christ's message.

[question everything]

9. Indeed. I have recently read that Evangelicals do not follow the teaching

of Christ, but the life of Christ himself - whatever that means.

There was a mention of a man by the name of Schott - or something like that - who is supposed to be the most powerful man leading this group.

Thus, for any of us to try to admonish Evangelicals about living and promoting ideas that are not what Christ is believed to have taught - is really irrelevant.

[grumpy old fart]

15. Not so....Christ practiced what he preached...

and whether you follow what he did or what he said leads to the same ends....and it doesn't lead to fascist, gay bashing, poor hating policies..

[Iris]

18. Exactly. eom

[merbex]

12. Could we please start by correctly by correctly identifying who

we are dealing with here?

We are dealing with Christian FUNDEMENTALISTS -not evangelicals- and there is a huge distinction

go to www.yuricareport.com -scroll down to really get a taste of this taliban like thing called DOMINIONISM

Her whole web site is very interesting

[DaedelusNemo]

19. Dominionist => wealth and power = God's favor /nt

[GOPBasher]

23. They hate that guy.

They love their version of "Christ," not Jesus of Nazareth. They never quote anything from him -- except one single passage in the gospel of John, which is totally different than all the other gospels.

[PurityOfEssence]

3. We embrace religion; they require it

Ay, that's the rub.

[coloradodem2005]

4. Yup.

Ain't that the truth. A bunch of so called christians who are propping up one of the most evil corporations in the world and then tirading against everyone whom they disagree with.

[OneBlueSky]

5. the divide is about a lot of things, not the least of which is . . .

the brainwashed vs. the unbrainwashed . . . or those who get their news from FAUX and accept it without question vs. those who look beyond the corporate media for the truth . . .

[DaedelusNemo]

7. Lots of republicans aren't theocrats

EDIT/ In fact, lots of christians aren't theocrats./EDIT

The unholy alliance between theocrats, money, and libertarians makes the latter very uneasy. A good bet for a Democratic party strategy, imo, is to start splitting and peeling the libertarians away from the theocrats. At this point, the administration and the Republican party are taking on so much of an authoritarian bent as to give many of the libertarian-minded the willies (especially as they seem bent on making full use of developing technology.) Just peeling away 10% of them would give you some of those red states.

The more theocrats are isolated from libertarians, the less they can force anything on the rest of us.

Another weakness in the republican alliance is the very real and broad resentment, including in the red states, of the effects of big money on our politics and society. (Of course, the societal effects of big money they blame on liberals.)

What we need are something like libertarian greens, imo - skeptical of any concentration of power, of any large organization, be it government or corporation. All of them need to be watched like hawks. Power structures accumulate power and restrict others. The only reason we have a government in the first place is to increase and preserve our freedom. Economic populists, but realistic about it, and predisposed towards more freedom and broader rights.

There's lots of people like that in the red states, but they don't think they have representation.

[Cats Against Frist]

14. I fully agree with you

but many of the people around here, won't. I think the key to destroying the Republicans is aligning with the Libertarians and doing some federalist kind of workings. Democrats don't realize that Libertarians are not neo-liberals, and usually portray them as heartless and money hungry. Even the LP is an amalgam of mostly centrist libertarians, and they share half of the Democratic platform, and on economic matters, they want collusion of government and corporations stopped.

I'd rather see them peel away the libertarians than try to go all "Evan Bayh" to try to peel away some of the lost-cause delusionals and bigots who hate civil liberties.

[question everything]

17. Yes. And they were against the Iraq Wat, still are

at least, the self-described Orange County Register has been.

They also are against the ballooning budget deficit and admonish the so-called fiscal conservatives for abandoning all pretense

[DaedelusNemo]

21. Good point, lots of them were, & budget has them hopping mad /nt

[DaedelusNemo]

20. different brands of libertarians

Some of them are heartless and prize (their) property above (other people's) lives. But most of the people i'm talking about say things like "Get government of our backs" and "live and let live", prize life over property, and don't trust corporations either. Fully 78% of the country said that guaranteeing SS benefits was a priority of theirs, so obviously the 'heartless' must be a smaller subset of 'republican voter'.

In other words, i agree. (I wish someone who didn't would show up so i can understand that point of view.)

[Erika]

8. I'm going to invest $ in yard signs

I will post the Golden Rule with a caption below "Does Christ Believe in Pre-emptive Strikes".

I have no idea why any libertarian would vote for Bush. He's totally fiscally irresponsible and wishes to overtly deny our civil liberties. Harry Browne must be shuddering in disbelief.

But Christians need to ask themselves what is so Christian about Bush's policies.

Just my two cents.

[DaedelusNemo]

22. Good point, christian dems need to express themselves more

We need to have a general air-clearing discussion on church and state and reacquaint everybody with why we want them separated. Mixing them is good for neither.

[Dob Bole]

10. Carter shops at Wal-Mart....

and he's an evangelical too.

But Carter is also one of a kind...if we can find another Southern governor (or two, that I have in mind) we'll be in good shape in 2008.

[grumpy old fart]

16. I hope he doesn't shop at Wal-Mart....

I wish no one did. Talk about a symbol of fascist corporatism...

[Bridget Burke]

11. Bush "attends church regularly" ?

Sure, when he weekends at Camp David, Bush spends Sunday morning with the compound's chaplain. And, every so often, he drops in on the little Episcopal church across Lafayette Park from the White House. But the president who has staked much of his domestic agenda on the argument that religious communities hold the key to solving social problems doesn't belong to a congregation.

www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=vKO1twmWG2Uvnyi2qoWQfW%3D%3D

And here's a report on the Dominionists--the "Christians" who have overseen the politicization of religion in recent years. They are beyond Conservative / Evangelistic or Fundamentalist Christians (although they use those folks, often by stealth) & they have been very successful.

www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. What about those of us who

attend church regularly and wouldn't dream of voting Republican?

Typical Republicanite nonsense about Republicans being "Christian."