Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Late January, 2009: It's only 4 years & 2 weeks until Clark & Obama

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:38 PM
Original message
Late January, 2009: It's only 4 years & 2 weeks until Clark & Obama
are sworn in as President and Vice President of the United States.
The long nightmare will finally be over.

8 years of Wes, followed by 8 of Barack. Our time is coming.

Won't that be nice? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please.We have work to do NOW!
And I love Clark but after the suck up things Obama has said recently. I wouldn't vote for him(obama). Too bad. I had high hopes for him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Okay, then Clark and "somebody"
if Obama isn't ready.

Just trying to think positive. It's never too early.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jswordy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. A vote for Clark is a vote for the DLC, which...
...funded his last campaign. They paid his outstanding debts. Follow the money!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. WTF?
Clark is not in the DLC.....and as Tom Rinaldo posted in an earlier thread, there are just some cold hard facts....that I would take note of if I were you.....

"....some cold hard facts. Wesley Clark started his campaign for President at least a full year after all of his major rivals were already up and running, and in some cases he was two years or more behind in organizing. That simple fact doesn't sufficiently capture the handicap Clark faced however, you have to factor in that there was essentially zero time left for Clark to "catch up". The string of Democratic Candidate debates had already started without him by the time Clark entered the race.

Clark's national name recognition was quite low prior to his entry into the race. This was no "Hillary Clinton" type scenario available for Clark. That is to say, he was no one's 600 pound gorilla at that stage in his early political career, he had no mass reservoir of grass roots support in the party or public to tap into. Typically a candidate entering the Presidential race late needs that type of instant support huge base to have any chance of winning.

All career politicians over the course of their career develop a core group of political aids and consultants who they have walked through the fires with, aids who know the candidates thoughts almost like their own, aids who have developed radiating webs of political contacts to harvest on behalf of their candidate. Career politicians also have a wealth of essentially pre packaged position papers and policy priorities worked up by themselves and their aids in the course of running for and holding prior political offices. They don't all have to be prepared from scratch. Wesley Clark did not have a political inner circle of seasoned pros who had worked with him before to organize his campaign around. He had to build his campaign late, pulling together people he often hardly knew, who were left from a pool of talent that largely had been drained from people having made prior early commitments to other candidates.

Remember even a seasoned professional politician like John Kerry had to totally shake up his own campaign team three times. Campaigns, and the teams that run them, rarely naturally jell the instant they are assembled and launched. They shake down over time, and the best time for any of them to to shake down this time were the relatively sleepy months of late 2002 and early 2003 when the national media wasn't leaning over their shoulders waiting to pounce on any hint of weakness. Clark wasn't allowed that opportunity due to his late entry.

Then of course there is the true fact that Clark was inexperienced at running a political campaign. Not inexperienced at politics, or leadership, but at public electoral campaigns. It took Clark about 4 months to master the language of sound bites, his natural tendency was to attempt to give full answers to the questions asked of him. By the time Kerry was running against Bush however Clark was already one of the Kerry Campaigns key media spokespersons, so once again Wesley Clark has shown how incredibly fast a learner he is.

As to the negative spin given Clark's campaign, let's start with the media. While the general public may not understand i,t most here at DU believe that corporate media is no friend to the Democratic Party. Clark supporters believe that Wesley Clark represented the greatest single threat to George Bush being reelected. Specifically as a candidate to oppose bush, but beyond that as an expert voice who could shred the bogus national security rational that Bush/Cheney were pushing to both cover their failures and to posture as war time leaders. There was a seemingly coordinated effort made to discredit and marginalize Clark by the media, especially electronic media. Some Clark supporters have documented patterns of media coverage that support this thesis. At one point there was a running tally of how many days Judy Woodruff would go on "Inside Politics" without mentioning Clark's name. This was before the NH Primary. I think she may have hit 20 days, does anyone remember exactly? There was also the famous Fox News ambush of Clark at the debate they hosted immediately before the NH vote. Clark was asked twice why he had been supportive of republicans in the past and also why he would not denounce Michael Moore for pointing to Bush's record of non service in the Texas National Guard. Then they ended the debate early, cutting away from the continuing proceedings, and went to right wing talking heads who each took turns tearing into Clark.

AS to the die hard opponents of Clark, you can find some of their attack lines above this in this thread. They have a routine tendency to gloss over any facts that do not fit into their hatchet jobs on him.

Edwards supporters that I noted above were engaged in a partisan political battle to buff up their man as the best VP candidate possible to compliment Kerry. I don't doubt their sincerity in that, and they saw Clark as a possible VP rival. One of the key arguments being used for Edwards was that he was the "people's choice" for VP based in large part on his performance in the primaries. The Edwards strategy, as expressed by Edwards first while running for President during the early primaries, was to cut out the rest of the field and make it come down to a two man race between Edwards and Kerry. Clark was a big complicating factor to that strategy because while he was still in the race Clark came in first or second in as many primaries as Edwards did (as well as edging out Edwards for third in New Hampshire which was dominated by New England favorite sons). Clark made a very different call than Edwards did after it became apparent to him that he would not win the nomination. Clark closed ranks behind Kerry. Edwards prolonged the campaign by another month and numerous other primaries, getting great personal exposure but no more victories under his belt. But by so doing he cemented a public perception that he and Kerry were the Democrats strongest two candidates. I don't take away form Edward's performance, however I object to what I saw as an effort made by others to minimize Clark's performance.

As to the controversy about Clark being a centrist ploy to defeat Dean, some centrists initially backed Clark for exactly that reason. One could say they feared Dean because they honestly believed he would make a poor candidate, or one can say they feared Dean because he threatened and challenged their power base within the Party. Or both. Clark definitely had real grass roots support as evidenced by the Draft Clark movement and Clark's continuing active core of activists, but some established centrist backing was probably essential to Clark having any chance of overcoming the late entry related handicaps I outlined above. I've written more extensively on this elsewhere, but in short my position is Clark never entered the race because he wanted to stop Dean, he entered the race because he wanted to defeat Bush, and Clark was concerned that Dean could not do so due to his, in Clark's view, insufficient national security credentials for the coming election as Clark foresaw it. Clark got some establishment Democratic backing but they never "loved" or trusted him as one of their own. Soon as Kerry regained some footing they deserted Clark for Kerry in a relative heart beat.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. messen with my Dog WES is fueden words
Wes sure would have done better against the retard.
the wingers were afraid thats why they had thier people like peggy noonan write articals trashing himm before the primaries.
Oh and lets not for get Democracy Now and the Nation bashing him also.
I will never buy the Nation mag again and rarely listen to democracy now
anymore.Some people just dont want to win!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Please stop, it's too early to think about 2008
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Don't pay them any mind!
Think positive!Tommorrow is going to be a great day!:hug: :party:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueFlu Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. WRONG ANSWER... The Repugnicants started planning 2008
four years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jswordy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. In yer dreams.
Highly doubtful, reading the tea leaves at present.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Pffffft!
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Reading Tea Leaves?
Hey, that's what the corporate No-nothing presstitutes pundits do!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. About Senator Obama
Can we give this guy a break? He's just started his career in the Senate and from everything I've seen intends on staying there for a good while.

And while he's a good man and will probably be a great President someday, should he decide to run, he needs to focus on being a Senator from Ill and not be distracted by other things. Our idiot media is just waiting for the guy to screw up, so they can jump all over him.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I always give people a break.....
maybe cause I realize I am myself not perfect to other's specification. There are those, who I consider as the enemy, who love to watch us eat our own....

Barack Obama is someone that I am proud will be representing Black folks such as myself in the Senate. Bout time!

But come on....you know how DU is.....only gives selective breaks to those selected few.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kilkenny5 Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Why this cult-like attraction to Wesley Clark?
Does he walk on water?

Does he bring people back from the dead?

Please explain to me what is his appeal?

I don't see it and I never will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Nothing cult-like about it
It's just good ole satisfaction I get everytime I hear the man speak. He hits home and has that kind of appeal that's real. There's nothing fake or put-on about him. Wesley Clark just seems to say all the right things, he's seems like a great leader, and he's simply likeable. It's easier to relate to him than so many of the other ones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Clark is a truly gifted communicator. He has lived the....
life of most Americans and can understand how they feel. He can appeal to rural voters too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kilkenny5 Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Sorry, I've heard him speak
Still not impressed.

What makes him more viable than what's left of the Democratic contenders?

And no, I don't like Hillary either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Hatian Man Titties....
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. No really, if you want to win a real fraud battle next time.....
Choose a REAL General.....Who really is the REAL DEAL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. With the "cult" label you effectively close your mind. Try opening it.
Edited on Wed Jan-05-05 09:49 PM by Clarkie1
It's more difficult, but a whole lot more fun!

Then, support the candidate of YOUR choice.

I detest stereotypes and labels.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kilkenny5 Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Anyone with the tagline Clarkie1 just proves my point
It's neither a stereotype or labels.

It's the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. So expressing suppoort for a candidate makes me a member of a cult, eh?
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 12:59 AM by Clarkie1
Strange perspective you have there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueFlu Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Did you see Clark on Hardball last night???
The man is a genius, articulate, first in his class at West Point, a bonafide war hero, and damn good looking (or so my wife says...).

Even Chris Matthews was polite to him, didn't interrupt him, and allowed him to finish every thought.

His views on the DNC platform are 100%.

Frankly, I hope it is Clark/Clinton. My Dad knows them both, and I would have one hell of a good time at THAT inauguration!

Blue Flu Day- January 20, 2005
Take the day off, and don't spend one RED cent!
Join us in DC if you can, just be sure to wear BLUE- the brighter the better...

www.blueflu.us
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. With eyes shut wide.....
I doubt that you will ever, as you have confirmed.

At least you've got strong convictions. Chin up! It's better than nothing.

Kinda like a Resolute blind guy crossing the street at the freeway exit at night wearing all black without a cane. Guess a clue could have saved him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hell Yeah!!!!!
It'll take men like them to get this country right again. Powerful, intelligent, good men. I think they'll run against Jebbie & Santorum, and that my friends, will be a fuckin' joke! God, Wes and Obama will kick their asses! It will be simply breathtaking! I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!!!


P.S. Hey, if * gets impeached, convicted of war crimes, & exiled, maybe Wes & Obama can start sooner?!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. Obama has been a senator for 2 days
He's not running for anything in 2008.

2012 or 2016 will belong to him, maybe both.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Thanks for being a voice of reason
People are jumping down his throat already. I haven't seen him vote on any bills, introduce any bills, etc etc.

Let's give him some time. I don't know what the point of thinking about '08 is already. We have our work cut out for us in '06 as it is....and so far it looks like we're going to be defending more seats and it's looking like the GOP may PICK UP even more seats.

Obama seems an unlikely pick to be on the national ticket in '06. He wouldn't have even completed one full term and I think I've heard him make it quite clear he's not interested just yet in higher office.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
28. Hi, would you help with 06?
And in the meantime maybe Clark can do something that will prove he deserves the nomination. Oh and Obama on the ticket before even one term in the Senate?

I get the feeling you aren't in charge of hiring at your place of employment.

Julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC