Bush Going Down?

[Steely_Dan]

I visit this site daily and I note that many express the belief (confidently) that Bush will not finish his second term...that the many lies and scandals will catch up to him.

My question is a simple one...
What makes you so sure that he and his administration cannot survive a second term? What is out there that will do him in?

I'm not talking about what you would LIKE to see happen, but real issues that could bring his tenure as the President to a close before 2008.

-Paige

[UdoKier]

1. It's mostly wishful thinking.

We're all aware of the state of the one-party congress and its complete lack of interest in ever enforcing the law or ethics rules on ANY republican.

But those posts do offer a sliver of hope and many of us need some to cling to...

[Mojambo]

2. If Plame goes high enough in the administration

It could easily take them down.

I don't think it will go higher than Libby and even that is unlikely.

[imenja]

6. no way

That mess has been around for a long time now. It wasn't even an issue in the election. I'm not saying it shouldn't bring him down, but it won't.

[indigobusiness]

31. Your assertions remind me of what was said about Nixon...

not long before he fell.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

53. It was a different world back then...

Long ago, there used to be Republicans who were civic-minded and put the good of the country about partisan politics. Sen. Howard Baker was one of them -- though he was a Republican, he demanded the truth from Nixon and was ready to impeach him if it came to that.

How many Republicans are there in Congress who would turn on Bush? Lincoln Chaffee and Olympia Snowe and maybe two or three others.

[indigobusiness]

60. When the electorate turns...

they will turn.

[Clark2008]

101. Howard's a good man

I've had the opportunity on more than one occasion to interview him - the last time was after Nixon died.

[imenja]

67. Nixon

It was Republican who prompted Nixon to resign. Do you honestly think that will happen with this Republican party?

[indigobusiness]

68. It was no Republican.

It was the heroic effort of Daniel Ellsberg that sealed Nixon's fate.

The corrupt machinery almost managed to silence Ellsberg by jailing him, but he prevailed (by a whisker). And when the lies and crimes could no longer be concealed, Nixon's house of cards fell.

Everyone thinking it can't happen again are kidding themselves.

[imenja]

70. check the history books

Ellsberg had an influence of course, but Republicans decided they wanted to kid rid of Nixon. Impeachment and conviction require votes. Nixon resigned because he knew he would be convicted. Not because of a trial or news story alone. These things don't happen by themselves. Dreaming gets us know where. We need action to bring about change: electoral reform for starters. You'll waste four years at this rate.

[indigobusiness]

72. I don't need books, I was there.

If they had managed to bury the Pentagon Papers, which they very nearly did, Nixon would not have been exposed and brought down. You are in error. If you don't believe me, write Ben Bradley, he'll tell you.

Cynicism is what gets us nowhere, not dreaming. Belief in the impossibility of things will never be superior to faith in the possible.

Nixon resigned because he knew he'd be convicted, but only because of the efforts of Daniel Ellsberg. The point is where is the Daniel Ellsberg of today? The facts are there, when they are fully exposed there will be. similar results. Learn from history.

[imenja]

75. it's not cynicism, it's a matter of channeling your energies toward

something useful. We need to Work for change. Not wait for Santa Claus.

[indigobusiness]

76. I'm not into channeling or Santa Claus.

Have you considered anything I said? I've been expressing a call for proactive engagement with the tools at hand (in case you need a translation). Who has advocated waiting?

[imenja]

77. okay

what's the plan?

[indigobusiness]

80. You wish

to conspire?

[imenja]

82. I wish for action , priority on election reform

Election reform is my number one priority. I posted this following set of ideas on another (actually several) forums. They were ignored, as is just about everything on DU that involves more than making phone calls or going to a protest. At least two of those forums requested ideas for further action, yet no one else provided any nor did they seem to want to discuss them. I welcome any ideas you have.

"1) work to get local supervisors of elections elected in your county 2) also secretaries of state. It is those two offices that control elections. 3) put pressure on the federal representatives to insist on a verifiable paper trail and other key electoral improvements but don't let Republican intransigence stop us 4) sponsor state constitutional amendments and initiatives demanding a verifiable paper trail 5) work on making one person one vote a constitutional right (J Jackson Jr.'s point today). We can sponsor a fed constitutional amendment to promote that.
6) how about a people's cable news network? Funded with our money. Think of all the money we've contributed to elections and recounts. How about investing in a cable news network (if we can't get rich Dem's to buy one). Fair and Balanced, ya know.
Republicans use the Constitution to promote discrimination. Let us use it to promote democracy!"

I'm open to other ideas for action, and I support any action you might take that would result in a better America. I'd love to hear your ideas.

[indigobusiness]

83. Everyone participates and contributes in different ways,

according to their talents and interests.

I don't argue with your energetic ideals, but merely point out that it takes all kinds...and all efforts in fighting the good fight should be recognized and respected. I wouldn't presume to add to your noble point of view.

[imenja]

84. only one person's ideas, hoping to get support or additional ideas

nothing "noble" about my point of view. I just get tired of people complaining while doing nothing. During the campaign, I spent hundreds of hours volunteering. I wish a fraction of those people who now insist Kerry was our rightly elected president would have bothered to canvass or make calls. If they did, he might be taking office on Jan 20.

[indigobusiness]

89. Personally

I think more harm was done by fighting Bush on his turf and terms, rather than focusing on plowing the fertile ground of Kerry's ideals.

You are noble, and I salute your efforts.

[imenja]

90. thanks, and one point about impeachment

You may have considered this: Bush gets impeached and convicted and Cheney becomes president, essentially no change. Cheney goes down too, and Hastert is president, with Delay pulling the strings. Even worse. The advantage, or course, would be yet another dark stain on the Republicans, but probably not any positive change in the executive. I don't mean to discourage your action. I applaud it. Just wanted to point out some thoughts on the matter.
I agree that the mistakes in the Kerry campaign were manifold. Hopefully we can do better during the next four years.

[indigobusiness]

91. It's always wise to do the right thing for its own sake...

not for any form of manipulation of consequence.

[NoFederales]

100. imenja

I am intrigued by the constitutional admendment idea to secure freedom from election fraud, especially the paper trail verification part. How to get started? I'm not attuned to the poly-sci methods of government.

NoFederales

[imenja]

105. varies according to the state

State procedures vary. I noticed you are from Missouri. Didn't you have one of the anti-gay marriage amendments on the ballot this November? Not all states have procedures in place, but if you've voted on such amendments, you know yours does. There is a threshold for a certain number of signatures required to put such a provision on the ballot, and there are deadlines to submit them. Those will vary state to state. It will require volunteers to collect lots and lots of signatures. I plan to get the thing rolling here in Fla, and will find an attorney willing to contribute his time to writing the provision carefully. It needs to be brief but adequately address existing legal provisions in your state.

Check out this thread here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x262387

There are a lot of ideas being expressed there for people who want to change the electoral system. Hopefully we can create state-specific groups to work on the subject and coordinate them through there. I suggest you do a web search to find out the procedures in your state.
We can check in with each other to see what we've discovered.

[missouri dem 2]

106. Welcome to du fellow Carthagian.

Check out: [e-mail]

[e-mail]

[Steely_Dan]

78. Is This Your Quote???

"Belief in the impossibility of things will never be superior to faith in the possible."

I love this line...can I use it?

-Paige

[indigobusiness]

81. Yes and yes.

With attribution, of course.

Glad you liked it.

[imenja]

3. Not going to happen

There have already been lots of issues that might have brought Bush down ("misinformation" on the war, Abu Ghraib, outrageous fiscal irresponsibility), but they haven't and I very much doubt they will. The Republicans control both houses of congress. The only hope would be following a Democratic landslide in 2006, and I don't think there are even enough seats up for that to happen.
Any scandal would have to prompt outrage on the part of Republicans who would then move for impeachment. It was the Republicans who brought Nixon down, despite the fact there was a Democratic majority in both houses at the time. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. Let's concentrate on how WE can win rather than hoping they will self-destruct.

[FreepFryer]

7. No, let's also concentrate on how to encourage them to self-destruct...

[saracat]

8. Tommorow, whatever happens, marks the beginning of the end.

[Geek_Girl]

79. The seem to control the media message as well

I don't think the Bush will be impeached for one simple reason. We have no free press. The media and press are controlled by mega corporations and so is the American government.

[gjb]

109. Bush has more on his rap sheet than Nixon. Scandal means nothing ...

to the Republicans. In fact the bigger the scandal the bigger the victory when they ignore it.

Nixon went down because he became a liability. He was a paranoid drunk at the end and a loose cannon. My theory is that Kissinger toasted him to save his own post Watergate reputation, as an un-indicted war criminal.

You have to remember Nixon went down because of a botched burglary. Clinton went down because he lied about a blow job.

Bush has survived an illegal war, lying (through his subordinates), to congress in the initiation of the war and in the subsequent investigation by the Senate Intelligence Committee, with Condi smirking her way through the whole thing. Rumsfiend burped and bubbled like a puppy that got caught peeing on the carpet.

Bush has openly and unconstitutionally moved to bring all decision making power under the control of the executive branch thus violating the principle of the separation powers of the three branches of government, all in broad daylight for all to see.

9/11 was the Reichstag Fire, the excuse to all legislative authority vested in the Reichstag into the hands of Die Führer, (the Patriot Act)

At this stage scandal means nothing. Just look at the smiles on the faces of W, Condi and Rove et al, since Nov 2. Only Powell is scowling.

Powell and State have been turned into a joke, a Neo Con pinata. Justice has morphed, under Ashcroft into the SS 'Justice Ministry'. The Pentagon has been co-opted by the SS Office of Special Plans.

If you look at Bush's Cabinet and Hitlers War Cabinet this is what you will find.

Powell = Joachim von Ribbentrop and later Rudolf Hess
Rumsfiend = Hermann Goering
Kark Rove = Joseph Goebbels
Condi Rice = Martin Bormann
Tom Ridge = Heinrich Himmler
Gale A. Norton = Wilhelm Frick

etc etc

The point is that Hitler surrounded himself with Party loyalists before the war and yes-men after the war was in full. Every one of them followed along denying day to day reality to the very end.

Pardon the rant but sometimes Tin Foil is Real Politik

[elshiva]

4. Impeach Bush! n/t

[Pam-Moby]

10. yes! Impeach Bush, but when and how is the question n/t

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indigobusiness]

22. Both, when their reelection chances hinge on it

after the tide has turned and even the pukes are fed up with being ripped off by corruption.

Bush will soon be under 40% approval rating.

The tide IS turning.

[3days]

5. If you can't get taken down by starting an illegal war

and killing your own people and stealing their money then.........I don't see it happening

[unpossibles]

9. because he's got more dirty laundry than a neat-freak mud wrestler

9/11
lying to Congress to start a war
torture
disregard of the geneva convention
election fraud
... and more

The cynic in me says it won't stick anymore than it did before, but the optimist in me says that we as a nation have a boiling point and we've almost reached it.

[marcologico]

11. election fraud

this is the one that'll stick, and sooner or later Dumbya's gonna board that big helicopter in the Rose Garden, I am 100% certain.

[elshiva]

14. All great reasons for impeachment, better

than some stains on a blue dress.

[Catherine Vincent]

12. Going down on whom?

No sex threads.:-)

[imenja]

15. Is that why Laura always has a grin on her face?

Nah, don't think so.
Gosh, I just had a really disturbing image cross my mind.

[thoughtanarchist]

13. just this alone should bring him down if justice was properly served.

the scandals in this admin are as grains of sand upon the beach.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1125183

[tyedyeto]

20. Justice properly served???

Not with this congress, administration and future Supreme Court......ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indigobusiness]

23. Answer something honestly

Did you vote for Bush?

[imenja]

26. the statement is a practical one

Do you actually think a Republican congress will impeach Bush? You don't need to support him to realize that just isn't going to happen. Look what the guy has survived already!

[indigobusiness]

30. Of course they will if it serves them personally.

They are that self-serving. How could you suggest otherwise?

If they aren't machiavellian, we ought to get rid of the term.

[imenja]

61. How will it serve them personally?

What scenario do you envisage?

[indigobusiness]

103. It's not what I envision. It's what they do. Whenever their political

future is on the line, they look out for number one.

People can't seem to look forward, they see the future in terms of the present/past. When Bush gets fully tarred by his own brush, the rats will jump ship after public opinion turns.

It astonishes me how nobody seems able to read the handwriting on the wall. It happens time and again, people tell me I'm dreaming...then eventually have to eat their words. I'm not saying I'm always right or that I'm a seer. But the dynamic is in place, it has only to be realized.

When Bush senior was flying very high in the polls (80%+ approval) on his wave of Baghdad bloodshed, in the winter/spring before his loss to Clinton, I said he was sure to tumble, and to take the long odds on Clinton (who was no certain Dem candidate). Everybody was saying Bush was a lock. I cleaned up. This is one of many examples.

Look beyond the obvious, and the apparent.

[Bouncy Ball]

63. Of course he did!

Check out his other posts. I've been alerting on every single on of them. He won't be here long.

[Bridget Burke]

42. Like he was "there" for the last 4 years?

You must be so proud ...

[recovering democrat]

18. Paranoia

I believe it is likely his tenure as President may come to an early close, not because the lies and scandals, by themselves, catch up with him, but for the same reasons Nixon had to go.

From the screening of people to attend his campaign activities, to the types of changes and the loyalist focus in his second-term appointments, it is clear he wants all "yes-men" in his world and that personal loyalty to him is his only value.

With Nixon, it was the cover-up that got him. All those yes-men (and ladies) cannot tell Bush anything he does not want to hear, so they and he, will have to "fix it". Pay attention to the "spin" going on now about the Gonzales AG nomination activity. There is always just a little truth in the strangest "gossip". Everything that is a problem for him now is a partisan political issue, and there are different sides to all of them. When and if the paranoia about criticism of him kicks in (and it seems to me it already has), that is what will cause him and his supporters to do the cover-up things that will shorten his stay in the White House.

Maybe just my own tin-foil perspective, maybe not.

[priapis]

19. With a Repub House, they can't start impeahment, so he's safe

even if he bites the head off a live baby on FOXNEWS while Hannity is blowing him.

[indigobusiness]

24. Pukes won't go down with his sinking ship.

Have you forgotten their ratitude?

[marcologico]

25. They're already tossing Rummy and Blair overboard, Chimpy's probably next

I doubt Cheney would let anybody touch him, and wouldn't he like to be president, but then nobody's safe on planet NeoCon.

[imenja]

27. it's got nothing to do with their being rats

or how wrong they are. It's political reality. If we sit around waiting for this to happen, we won't accomplish anything positive for progressive causes. This delusion has got to end.

[indigobusiness]

28. That's not the point.

I was responding specifically to the assertion that he is protected by a Republican Congress.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lexingtonian]

21. The Administration has an incredible burn rate

They go through goodwill (i.e. political 'capital') as if there were no tomorrow.

At some point there won't be any left, and there will be no tomorrow for them.

The math is in the politics of resentment they work by.

The way of putting it in particulars is: This bunch has been running the country by appealing to reactionary resentments built up during the Cold War. During 1990-2000 their side ran on all the foreign resentments built up ~1940-1960 (the 1990-91 war for Kuwait essentially parallels the Korean War in its images and politics and choices) and all the domestic resentments built up between 1940 and 1995 or so (but they all have their roots in the '50s- Betty Friedan, the Beatniks, MLK, etc.). During the past four years we've seen a rerun of the foreign affairs of 1959 (the Gary Powers affair, in the spy plane/Chinese landing affair of early 2001), the 1961 existential panic involving Cuba's missiles and Bay of Pigs (all in garbled form) in '9/11' and the mercenary war in Afghanistan and the WMD gullibility/expectation, and the present game in Iraq is a grotesquely exact recapitulation of the Vietnam involvement from 1963 to ~1972 compressed ~4:1 by timescale. (Except that Rumsfeld now plays Kissinger's role and Cheney plays McNamara's, and Bush's 'career' playing Nixon is utterly farcical.) Bush-Cheney 2004 also used up the domestic resentments built up by reactionary sorts between 1995 or so and the present- it was the Kerry-as-Massachusetts-Liberal anti-gay and subtle Christian anti-Semitism/blatant anti-'Hollywood'/anti-'New York' and anti-intellectual campaigning of mostly March to June 2004.

We can put a kind of limitation on Cold War reactionary resentment buildup involving foreign affairs at 1981 because of the Reagan-Bush responsibility for the neocolonialist foolery that followed and filled the time until the Russians collapsed. (Carter stalemated the Russians in Europe in 1978 and that was the last actual major move in the Cold War missile chess game.) We can consider the domestic/social change basis for the reactionary resentment maxed out or emotionally/politically used up in the next few months- they used that up in mid-2004, or rather, Kerry countered it well enough for it to fail quickly in the public mind. (He didn't do so well against the R's tapping into the anti-Vietnam demonstrator reactionary resentment of ~1970/71/72 tapped into in August, but fought it down in the 'debates'. But they finally 'got' him by blindly, unknowingly, tapping into something rooted in ~1972 (anti-McGovern Democrat resentments, I suspect) still out there among older, more generally moderate, conservatives.) And to eliminate one thing from consideration- the electorate doesn't understand any of the economic policy stuff, only the immediate effects on their own conditions, so economic policy stuff doesn't matter in an important way in this sort of politics in the sense of changing support.

So, by this theory, the Bush Administration has a political 'capital' limitation to work with mining the reactionary resentment politics vein further- there are still some Nixon Republican resentments pent up to exploit that root in 1973 and thereafter, but the Nixon corruptions of then are also being rerun/reminded of by their adherence to that time's images and historical 'logic'. The abandonment of South Vietnam and a kind of recapitulation of the Fall of Saigon are impending predictable events in their Iraq game, plus the Republican failure represented by the Oil Crisis is also in the time frame represented by the next year or so. There are still the foreign policy weaknesses of the Carter left to tap into- largely the Iran hostage thing. At a continuing time recapitulated compression of 4:1, that takes us to the residues of the politics of 1980 showing up sometime in 2006. After that point resentment politics works against them- the psychological suffering of the Reagan and Bush Sr. years was not among conservatives, it was among unpolitical people and nonwhites and progressive-minded people. And if resentment politics remains the major political driving force and retains this degree of intensity and time scaling, 2008/09/10 gets us to Liberal Backlash.

[JNelson6563]

32. Fueled by delusions

Ah yes, any day now the sheeple will sake up! The media will suddenly become independent and trustworthy again. All Team Bush's dirty deeds will cometo light and we will all live happily ever after.

Mmm hmmm.

Julie

[ladjf]

33. I love you guys. But, you are dreaming.

I don't think you realize how far the administration has gone toward total dictatorship. Democracy is over. The only question now is how long until the rank and file Americans finally realize that not only have they been vanquished by crooks but that they themselves assisted with the crime of overthrowing the government?

[JNelson6563]

34. Indeed, it's a nightmare for some of us

Thsoe of us with eyes wide open anyway...

[ladjf]

36. At this point, many of our best thinkers are in a state of

shock and are for the moment mostly silent as the ramifications of what has happened continue to be processed internally. All entities, living and not living, continue as organized constructs only for as long at their internal protections are able to withstand the relentless assaults by outside force. That is why everything is in a state of constant change.

Democracy as we have known it has been overwhelmed by opportunistic outside forces and will never return to it's previous form. However, what was fair for the goose is also fair for the gander. The current winners of the political contests in America will eventually be savaged by counter-forces, more powerful and more just (in terms of life quality) than the ruling Thugs-in-charge. It's likely that the next iteration of a democratic like form of government will be better prepared to deal with the types of oppositions that have overwhelmed it's predecessors. How long for this to happen. Impossible to predict the timing, only the sequence can be predicted.

[JNelson6563]

38. Many are bouncing back

even here in my world. Those of us who were never smitten by Kerry have a little bonus disappointment to address and yet we overcome. Here we are back at it, planning events, workshops and organizing.

I enjoyed reading your predictions. Know that I am one of many working nearly full time at making them reality.

Julie

[ladjf]

40. In the face of such power that is under the control of the regime,

the obvious strategy is to search for small, microscopic cracks in their armor. Having done that, our troops will be able to infiltrate their body so as to be able to attack it from within, virus style. I am suggesting that we adopt a biological model and base our actions accordingly. And since political entities are extensions of biological processes, I am only advocating that we use the laws of Nature in conscious and/or premeditated ways. Sorry if I'm being a bit cryptic here.

Let me give a concrete example: Certain crop pests have been countered by the introduction of other species that eat the pests. The outcome was successful in several obvious ways. They were able to use known laws of biology to alter the outcome.

[calimary]

71. Good point. You have to start thinking slightly differently.

Check out this NY Daily News story from March, 2003: "Just Be Thankful He's on Our Side" - here's a snip:

Be thankful we are only facing Saddam Hussein and not the retired U.S. Marine general who played the dictator in last summer's $235 million war game.
As commander of the "red" or enemy team in the July exercises dubbed "Millennium Challenge," Gen. Paul Van Riper employed motorcycle messengers and coded calls from minarets to elude electronic eavesdropping and direct a surprise suicide attack. Swarms of pleasure boats and private planes crashed into the "blue," or friendly warships in a large-scale version of Al Qaeda's bombing of the destroyer Cole.
The result of this virtual attack was that a significant part of the U.S. fleet was sunk before the Mother of All War Games really began. The higher-ups could hardly just tell everybody to go home, so the 16 ships were "refloated."
The Mother of All War Games resumed, and the higher-ups sought to dissuade Van Riper from continuing to employ unorthodox tactics.

http://www.nydailynews.com/03-30-2003/news/wn_report/story/71277p-66210c.html

You have to start thinking like a David facing a seemingly invincible Goliath. Yeah, Goliath looked pretty unbeatable. So did the U.S. Military against the puny little Viet Cong. So did Rome. The Nazis. The Soviet Union. The Spanish Armada. Genghis Khan. Alexander the Great. Egypt. Babylon. Tyrannosaurus Rex. Ronald Reagan. The Death Star in "Star Wars." The Borg in "Star Trek." All eventually crumbled and died. Even the mighty Achilles had a heel.

The virus analogy is a good one. They do seem an awful lot like opportunistic infections.

[hollowdweller]

35. I think he is mocking God and you don't do that and get away with it!

[ladjf]

37. Are you saying that "God doesn't like a smart ass"?

Seriously, if I could substitute the word "reality" to mean the same thing as "God", then I would totally agree with your assertion. Bush and his cohorts arrogantly feel that they are above or outside of the context of reality. That is pathological behavior and can't possibly survive very long. They will be "done in" by the smallest of foes, atomic particles and sub-particles, entities that aren't impressed or influenced by human behavior.

[itzamirakul]

41. You are so right...

If I could put your words in the simplest of terms, I would say that "what goes around comes around."

When one sets up energy (thought) in a certain way, those waves never "leave" the originator and impact upon the orginator's life.

[ladjf]

46. We are on the same page.

[dannynyc]

39. I felt he would not last a second term a year ago

I can't put my finger on what issue will bring him down. My gut feel is based on the large "house of cards" upon which the administration is built.

As other posters have noted, this administration has built goodwill at a fast rate. The more people that get pissed off, the more leaks appear from various government agencies.

It's true the Republicans have control of Washington. But, there are things they can't control - such as the world economy. The world economy is a very large variable outside of their control. As other countries get concerned about the debt level of the US government and move their funds to euros, that will have a negative effect on the US economy, and can stop many of Bush's new "give away to the upper class" programs.

Since the election, for whatever reason, Iraq has gotten more attention. And, the news has not been good. As bodybags returning to the US increase, people have been - and will continue to - question Iraq. Also, given the situation in Iraq, is there any way to avoid a draft? That will hurt the administration.

Finally, even though the Republicans have control of Washington, these legislators have to come back and face their contituents. Slowly an anti Bush trend is beginning to take root. Rumors are starting to appear about Republicans who do not support all of Bush's plans. This could grow.

If there is any single issue that is likely to blow up for Bush it's the November election. I'm hoping there will be an official objection to the election today. But, even if an objection is filed, I doubt that will stop Bush from being officially elected president. What it will do is push the election issue into the open. People working on election issues continue to find more and more dirt. That will push the Administration to get scared and sloppy. I do think, eventually, the equivalent of the 1970's era "deep throat" will appear and blow this issue wide open. This could be the end of Bush.

In reality, this is all hope and conjecture. However, there are so many issues that could explode that I'm convinced **something** will happen. It's just a matter of time.

[AlinPA]

43. It will never happen. He's still there after:lying about the reasons for

the war, the Plame thing, Abu Ghraib, withdrawing from Kyoto, weakening environmental laws and daily displays of utter stupidity plus a hundred other things. Media is totally controlled by Karl Rove. Get real.

[johnnie]

44. He probably won't go anywhere

Unlike the Democrats (as you can see from these forums) the pugs will stand by georgie no matter what. He could be caught pissing in their coffee each morning and they would cover his ass.
I believe georgie should have been gone quite a while ago, but he has a lot of people backing him, including 99% of the librul media. All I can say is we try to stick together and keep on working on getting our messages out.

[Zero Gravitas]

45. Who knows

He has shown such incompetence and lied so much about everything from tiny inconsequential things to affairs of state that have cost 1,000s of lives but has paid no political price for being the worst, most divisive President this country has seen.

However if the shit really starts hitting the fan & his fawning worshipers loose faith in their tin god, maybe, just maybe he'll could be forced to resign. But I doubt it.

[itcfish1]

47. He will Not Go Down

He is better than the Teflon Don. Nothing sticks to him. The media has been giving him a free ride from day one. We are doomed and there is nothing we can do about it.

[johnnyrocket]

48. A political tsunami taking Bush down would be...

the greatest event in American history in a very long time.

Can you imagine a Bush impeachment?!? The chatter would be so shrill, so divisive, so over the top, so SATISFYING!!!

[itcfish1]

49. In Other Words

CHIMPEACHMENT!

[Rockerdem]

56. Youre frickin hallucinating

Watergate happened because there were 2 houses of Congress in our control. Nothing happened to Reagan until Democrats regained the Senate in 87 and began the Iran Contra hearings.

There has to be a mechanism of power before opposition parties can begin to lay wood on the other partys president. Thats just a fact of life. If we regain the Senate in 06, look for some fireworks after that. But even then thats no guarantee. The political calendar has shifted so far forward that people will already be focusing on the 08 election instead of some lame duck AWOL chimpanzee that will be history in short order.

[jswordy]

50. He's good to go for 4 more years...

...unless one of his enemies gets through security, which I would doubt. When he went to Pittsburgh to campaign, a Republican friend there told me they even had welders come in and weld up all the manhole covers in the general area!

I, for one, am gonna enjoy watching GWB and his party have to come up with ways to deal with the huge mess created during his first term. Their champaign bash is over now, and it is time to clean up the mess while sporting a huge hangover!

[Mountainman]

51. Over 1/2 of Americans think Bush is a good thing happening

I think most of us better get use to the idea that this country is on it way to becoming what we were in the 1930's.


The people will be sold on the idea that Social Security is a bad idea and will screw themselves before they turn on Bush.

Unless we do something about the power of the right to persuade people to vote against their own best interests nothing will get better.

The right has built a very powerful machine which now controls the government and the media.

We have no power but the power we can gain by working together as Dean talks about.

We can't rely on our elected representatives because they lack the balls do challenge the right.

It is wishful thinking to believe in the people or the self destruction of the right.

We are in the long dark night of winter and we are hoping for a morning after.

If there is not a new progressive movement in this country started by the generation Xers nothing will change.

We need a 60's type in the streets revolution. I don't see it coming.

[ArkDem]

52. Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee

[rodeodance]

54. Lies , torture memo, disortions, -do not seem to matter to most. Fear

has been sucessfully instilled by the WH!!!!!!

[Steely_Dan]

55. Another Steely Dan Fan

.....Thanks for the shout out...

-Paige

[ArkDem]

59. .

:toast:

[Lorien]

57. He could wrap a baby in the flag and set it on fire

in the middle of times square, and the whore press would still praise him for his "bold actions".

No, he's not "going down". Our party has no real leaders, and the press is GOP owned. WE need to be the ones to take action; march, protest, write, and dammit; look at the information in the "Economic activism and Progressive living" forum (DU groups). VOTE WITH YOUR $$$!! Is one of the only tools left to us.

[Rockerdem]

65. Now someone is finally talking sense

Relying on congress to take down * is a losers game. Your second paragraph should be required reading for those wanting to take the easy path that takes no self-participation.

[Individualist]

58. If I had a dollar

for every "drip, drip, drip" and "he's toast" post I've seen on DU, I'd no longer have to be concerned about getting bills paid each month.

[kwolf68]

62. Easy

The media

CNN just mentioned the Boxer stand and the jag-off commentator may have well be laughing and mocking this situation. It was quite embrassing...maybe that toad should be in Ohio doing some real journalism instead of whoring for his daddy-masters.

[Bouncy Ball]

64. What's far more likely to happen

is the repuke party imploding from within.

And we can help that along.

Ahem.

[tom_paine]

66. Nothing, with the battered and weakened state of the System, the Press

Tiberius Bunnypants could be caught on tape murdering someone, and even then it would only be a 50-50 proposition as to whether enough Repugs would cross the line to impeacvh.

We are up against the Kinder and Gentler version of the Nazis, and I strongly suspect if things get eceonomically bad or if we are LIHOP #2'd with a nuke or bio-agent, even that distinction will be gone.

[Bimini_Twisted]

69. His seizure disorder will become public

Sooner or later he is going to start flipping like a fish and speaking in tongues in public and that will be that.

[Skidmore]

73. The only pressing question regarding *'s status is

which Dem legislator will be going down on him next.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

74. On Condi, maybe, but other than that, absolutely NOT.

Bush is going to walk away from his second term without a frigging scratch. There are too many "checks and balances" in place. Too many palms have been greased, too many votes have been purchased.

NOTHING...N-O-T-H-I-N-G...is going to happen.

NOTHING.

[bunkerbuster1]

87. I had to scroll back to the top to "get" that.

Good one.

The only way anything is going to happen is if the Dems miraculously retake both houses of Congress in 2006. I don't see that happening, but of course it IS possible.

[mattclearing]

85. I am convinced that he can/will get away with anything

I pray that something will remove them, but honestly, nothing surprises me with these people.

They have a pretty sweet hook-up, with that whole media/military/government monopoly they have going.

[neweurope]

86. I'm only an outsider but I think the Bushistas are here to stay.

My goodness: Look at the new laws that are here - to stay! Whether the dictator is named Bush or Cheney or *brother or whatever. I think hard times are ahead, war for all of us. It will get worse before it gets better. Forget about 2006 and the like. Keep a network going, stick together - hope to survive; but don't hope that Bush won't finish his second term. That's dreaming and we cannot afford this kind of dream.

[Squashmonkey]

88. If Bush is caught he'll pardon himself

There should be absolutely no doubt that the Republican Party will manipulate legislative tradition and judicial law as they see fit. Ethical lapses and overt crimes that would get a Democratic politician lynched will be redefined as oversights and misdemeanors, meriting wrist slaps in public and congratulatory backslaps in private. An earlier poster rightly commented that Watergate would never have been fully exposed without Ellsberg. The cabal running our nation now, of the same union-killing, robber-baron ilk as Vanderbilt, J.P. Morgan and Carnegie, is far too rigidly dogmatic and loyal to their mission to allow an Ellsberg for our times. Our only hope in this regard is so very slim, that one of Bush' acolytes will have a genuine spiritual conversion, realize his or her participation in the construction of this venal Republican oligarchy, witness firsthand the misery heaped upon the American poor and middle class as they are transformed into serfs heeling the ankles of nouveau kings and queens and produce for public consumption some documentation that proves Bush and Co. are robbing us blind. This runs into the inherent problem with Republicans. In general, they are not introspective. They fervently avoid questioning their actions. They proceed from immediate conviction mirroring the mob consensus. It makes things far easier for Republicans. They prefer to be told what to believe. Democrats, on the other hand, question their actions from the get-go, wanting to ensure themselves that what they do and say is right. Democrats are naturally suspicious of pre-packaged beliefs. History will not be kind to Bush. We just have to stick around for the day when this story of outrageous corruption will be told.

[Steely_Dan]

97. WELCOME TO DU!!!

Nice post.

-Paige

[KansDem]

92. Bush can be caught f*cking a sheep while stuffing a ballot box...

...and his followers would only worry about whether or not is was a female sheep...

[BlueManDude]

93. If he got the same scrutiny Clinton did he'd already be in jail n/t

[mbee]

94. I would have to come from his own party when they've

had enough of covering up all these crimes. When people wake up and realize their little tax cut won't keep them from bankruptcy. We haven't yet felt the full effects of how much this sham of an administration is going to cost us. If you just look at the inflated housing market and the new assessments are starting to hit. When those huge tax bills come to the mailboxes there's going to be a lot of unhappy campers out there and some of them are pugs!

[Berserker]

95. As the old saying goes

Give a man enough rope and he will hang himself.

[neweurope]

96. Let's do a collection for some rope...

[marcologico]

98. The neocons will hang him as soon as they cut down Rummy.

They're not the loyal type and their war isn't turning out as planned.

[A Simple Game]

107. True but,

if you give a man enough slack, his feet will be on the ground before the rope comes tight.

[agincourt]

99. If he were head of a political party,

he'd been gone long ago. But he is head of a giant cult, in which he can do no wrong. It's a disgrace

[DemGa]

102. I think the press has been in fear

and they don't like it. This Armstrong Williams story could really bite *. IMO.

[proud2BlibKansan]

104. What's with 'Paige' at the end of your post?

Are you related to Rod Paige?

[Old Mouse]

108. There is only ONE chance

If those here on DU and the congressional challenge to the election make enough people look at and recognize the techniques of voter fraud, manipulation and suppression, we have a chance for a fair election and for democrats to take back the house in 2006.

If democrats take back the house, he is impeached. Period. Choose whichever offense you want from all of the ones he has supplied us with over the years.

Of course, Bush knows this as well, so he will try to make sure we can't win 2006 by methods greater than he won with last year. Probably, people are going to start dying.

[skepticalndnc]

110. ..and if people start dying

that's called murder. All it would take is one slipup by a sloppy hit man. Is that what you are implying? Hits for hire to stay in power? Anything to anything to avoid impeachment?

[Old Mouse]

112. You can have as many sloppy hits as you want

if you control the process of investigation.

[deutsey]

111. It may be cynical on my part, but I don't believe good always triumphs

over evil.

I think evil has an amazing force behind it but by its very nature this power is unsustainable; eventually it collapses in on itself.

Right now that's the only hope I have against Bush; I don't see any of the good guys bringing him down, but maybe I'm just feeling disgruntled on a rainy morning.

Of course, it could be like Bill Hicks said when Bush I lost: he said he and his tribe of pygmies had relentlessly jabbed the enormous GOP elephant during the '80s with their little satirical and activist dartguns enough times that they finally brought the behemoth down in '92.

[Old Mouse]

113. history shows evil has a tremendous batting average n/t

[EVDebs]

114. JFK's brain is missing from the archives. They've yet to prove Bush has

one, aside from Rove.