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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:15 PM
Original message
Help me debunk this Jane Fonda Myth
This shit just landed in my inbox, forwarded from my paranoid conservative friend. I am not all that familiar with the details of Jane Fonda's North Vietnam activities, but I think that the stuff in this message is mostly myths that have been propagated by the right since the 70's

Are there sources available that could help me debunk this crap? Unlike recent Democratic candidates, I just can't seem to let bullshit GOP slander go unanswered.

A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED

KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA

This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do

not remember, and didn't have to bear the

burden that our fathers, mothers and older

brothers and sisters had to bear.


Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the

"100 Women of the Century."


Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still

countless others have never known how Ms.

Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,

but specific men who served and sacrificed

during Vietnam.



The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.


The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.


In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF

SurvivalSchoolwas a POW in Ho Lo Prison

the "Hanoi Hilton."


Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,

cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was

ordered to describe for a visiting American

"Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane

treatment" he'd received.


He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was

dragged away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward

on to the campCommandant's feet, which

sent that officer berserk.


In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from

double vision (which permanently ended his

flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied

application of a wooden baton.


From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the

47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the

"Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his

family only knew he was "missing in action".

His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.

His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and

clothed routine in preparation for a

"peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to

get word to the world that they were alive

and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny

piece of paper, with his Social Security Number

on it, in the palm of his hand.


When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a

cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each

man's hand and asking little encouraging

snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed

babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane

treatment from your benevolent captors?"

Believing this HAD to be an act, they each

palmed her their sliver of paper.

She took them all without missing a beat. At the

end of the line and once the camera stopped

rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,

she turned to the officer in charge and handed

him all the little pieces of paper.


Three men died from the subsequent beatings.

Colonel Carrigan was almost number four

but he survived, which is the only reason we

know of her actions that day.


I was a civilian economic development advisor

in Vietnam, and was captured by the North

Vietnamese communists in South Vietnamin

1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.


I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one

year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year

in a "black box" in Hanoi.

My North Vietnamese captors deliberately

poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a

nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South

Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the

Cambodian border.

At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs.

(My normal weight is 170 lbs.)


We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."


When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by

the camp communist political officer if I would

be willing to meet with her.


I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real

treatment we POWs received... and how

different it was from the treatment purported by

the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as

"humane and lenient."


Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky

floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched

with a large steel weights placed on my hands,

and beaten with a bamboo cane.


I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda

soon after I was released. I asked her

if she would be willing to debate me on TV.

She never did answer me.


These first-hand experiences do not exemplify

someone who should be honored as part

of "100 Years of Great Women."

Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women"

should never include a traitor whose hands are

covered with the blood of so many patriots.


There are few things I have strong visceral

reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in

blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many

people as you possibly can.

It will eventually end up on her computer and

she needs to know that we will never forget.

RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF

716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of

Maintenance

DSN: 875-6431

COMM: 883-6343


PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO

EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF

ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER

STATUS WILL CHANGE
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is there such an award?
I assume that this is to stir up the rightwingnuts who are refighting the Vietnam War, and there isn't any such list. Note that there is no mention of who is putting it together, in order to protest.

No, it seem to me that it is just one of those things for the senile RWNs to say, "I heard Jane Fonda, that traitor, got an award--I think it was from Clinton!"
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fonda was a spoiled rich brat
who went on a junket to Hanoi to raise consciousness and ended up getting used by the North Vietnamese for propaganda purposes. She was a goldfish in a shark tank.

It's high time for these guys to untwist themselves and let go of the hate, but since she's female, I doubt that's possible.

Suggesting they lay their anger on their captors is futile. They'd rather hate a woman.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. that and she's apologized repeatedly
these fuckers just love to hate; anything will do.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am a Vietnam vet and I supported what Jane Fonda tried to do.
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 12:21 PM by Mountainman
She and many others tried to present a view of the North Vietnamese that most people would never have seen. She showed the results of the constant B-52 bombings of Hanoi and Haiphong and the willingness of the people to fight on.

Wars take a very human toll on innocent people and she tried to get that message across just as Kerry did when he got back.

These right wingers do not speak for the majority of Vietnam Vets, they only speak for themselves.
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Democracy Died 2004 Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Resufaced due to asswipes
trying to connect fonda-kerry as traitors.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/h/hanoijane.htm
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. If it wasn't for people like her we would still be in Viet Nam. eom
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Nomad559 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:23 PM
Original message
http://www.snopes.com/
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. So being anti- Vietnam war was a bad thing - or is a visit to North
Vietnam the evil thing?

Or was it evil for the young lady to believe what she was told by a government?

Or was it evil for the young lady to not the children dying from our bombs and to recall Geneva Accords about the rules for war (granted it was silly for her to think one side pure and the other not pure)?

Does anyone really think any beatings of US folks would not have occurred if Jane had not visted Hanoi?

And if Bush is born again and forgiven for drug usuage and AWOL and rape of a 15 year old and her abortion, and his wife is forgiven for her killing of her boyfriend, could Jane's saying she is sorry she went to Hanoi (which she has said many times) carry any wieght with the folks recieving the above email?
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Debunked on snopes.com
This little "chestnut" surfaces now and then but it has been debunked.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Total crap! check out this snopes.com site
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
Herre is an excerpt:

The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above — that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result — are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him.


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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. When I respond to this kind of crap, I always do a "reply to all" just to
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 12:29 PM by BrklynLiberal
annoy everyone that gets and sends this kind of junk
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