Fantastic!! No cut and run threads today!

[txaslftist]

This is the first time I've tuned in to GD Politics in about three weeks and haven't encountered one of those 'I'ts time to give up on the democratic party' threads. Or 'I'm switching to Green/Libertarian/Republican/Independent' threads. Or an 'I'm leaving the party forever if they...' Threads.

I hope this is a sign that people are starting to stiffen a bit, toughen up a bit and getting ready for a long and difficult fight.

People, I think we are in the fight of our lives. Our constitution is under attack, or childrens' financial futures are in trouble, our standing in the world is threatened, and the very values we hold dear are being threatened by a corporate-republican machine that cares nothing about the common American, except as a consumer/victim.

It is time to fight, tooth and nail, with our talents and our treasures, against this reichwing madness. That means pulling for local candidates in every office from mail carrier to president. It means getting rid of 'blue republicans', getting rid of any one in a blue state that is either nominally or philosophically a repub.

It means getting our fiscal house in order. It may mean getting and or fighting dirty. It means being prepared to boycott, protest, carry signs, write checks, door to door canvass...

It's going to be a lot of work. I believe we can win.

There are two things we must do. First, we must pull the party back into a winning posture. That means campaigning, donating and working together. Not lockstep like the thugs do, but tolerant of each other's differences, with our eyes on the prize.

Secondly, we must pull the party back to its liberal and progressive core. We aren't a Wall Street party, that's them. We aren't a warmongering party, that's them. We are the party of the little guy, the weekend hunter, the suburban vegan, the blue collar worker. We are the party of principle and peace and truth and tolerance. We are the party of America as it should be, as it was meant to be, as only progressive advancement can make it.

We must be a free country again, and we must be a shining beacon on the hill again. We can do these things working through the democratic party, because no one else will stand up for us effectively against this reichwing lunacy.

GET ON BOARD. WE CAN AND WILL WIN.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Some of us have teken over Districtts

if you get my drift....

;-)

That was my I will leave the party rant, yep the party of loosers, which needs a back bone transplant... here is mine... here is a transplant....

Democrats yes, the new democratic party, going back to its principles...

Now lets win this one for Jefferson!

[Guaranteed]

2. We're the party of principle and peace and truth and tolerance

until Joe Lieberman comes along and starts talking about how great torture is.

Then we're the party that's supposed to stick together- but not in lockstep.

????

I'm sorry, are we fighting for something, or just trying to get power back (in a way that has lost representation for us in the past 5 elections)?

[txaslftist]

3. Maybe you can afford to split hairs...

But I can't. No matter what Lieberman says, he's not George Bush and he's not Ashcroft and he's not trying to take away my civil liberties. He's not trying to raid the national budget so that my children can never hope to pay off this insane Republican debt. He's not a warmonger.

Is he too far to the right for my taste? Probably. I'd like to see him picked off by a democratic candidate, though, not replaced by a thug.

I've got two little girls, Bull Goose. I want them to live in a free country, not a fascist dictatorship/oligarchy. I see a real danger of that in this administration and in the Neocon takeover. I want them eligible for Pell Grants, not having higher education taken out of their reach. And I want it for all of the little girls in their classes, too. I don't want them to ever fear getting drafted.

So this is not theoretical to me. It has an immediacy that lends passion to my life. I'm fighting, and I mean really fighting, politically, for the first time in my life. I'm spending money and time. I demand the same passion from everyone on this site. I've been flamed for that, too.

It doesn't matter. I've got a thick skin and I'm going to keep on responding the defeatists and the divisive posters who are, whether meaning to or not, making it more difficult for me to secure the future of my children.

[Guaranteed]

4. Joe Lieberman IS a warmonger. He STILL says that invading Iraq

was the right thing to do. And while he may not be "as bad" in many regards as the Bush administration, he is HELPING them. Why? I do not know. But, he is. And he's getting WORSE because of the political pressure, as are many Democrats.

I'm not talking "theory," here. I'm talking very real support from Democrats for many of Bush's fascist policies. I think it's about time maybe we DID get a little of the ole lockstep going, on our side. And not in support of the Bush administration, either.

It's time we found our principles again, and started fighting for them. You say you want to fight, but those who are "making it more difficult" for you are not those who call the weak-kneed Dems on their cowardice. It's the weak-kneed Dems, and I don't understand why you don't see that.

[txaslftist]

5. Actually, I don't think we are in fundamental disagreement

about Mr. Lieberman or other democrats who have gone so far to the right as be 'enablers'. On the other hand, what good does leaving and/or threatening to leave the party do?

I think a lot of the democratic leaders in Washington right now have been drinking the Koolaid. That doesn't mean they aren't democrats. I mean, I believe most of them are weak democrats, and they are afraid to rock the boat, not realizing that they will never get republican votes unless the completely sell out like Zell Miller sold out; and not realizing that energy and dedication to principle will win them more independent votes and democratic base votes than their wishy-washy dedication to compromise.

Clinton had the wishy-washiness down to an art, but coupled it with an intense personal charisma that NO ONE since has even come close to. Reagan had the same sort of charisma. Our leaders, wishing to emulate the success of Clinton, have made the mistake of thinking the wishy-washiness was the reason for his success, and have become, accordingly, wishy-washy. They don't have the charisma, unfortunately.

Regardless, if our party gains seats mid-term, like I suspect they will, and the gain is based on a return to core principles, which I think it must be, then we will see a classic learning curve come into place. You will see a return to core principles among our leadership and a refutation of the DLCs corporate sell out.

That takes work on the part of rank and file democrats. It takes working together, even if you don't agree with all of my principles. It takes dedication to the fight, not internal fighting, but against our real enemies.

[rockymountaindem]

32. That's ONE man...

surely you won't paint an organization with millions of members with such a broad brush because one man, who most of them didn't vote for, has views which disagree with yours.

How about accentuating the positive? Name 3 Democrats you like and focus on them for 10 minutes, that's all I'm asking for. Instead of spending all your time focusing on those you consider to be bad, spend a little thinking of people to support.

[Been Fishing]

6. I, too, think the country is threatened by this administration and

the neocons.

But you need to listen those dissatisfied with the "weakness" in the Democratic Party. Otherwise, you won't know what needs to be done to get the party in order. Internally, first, and externally second.

Criticizing those who accommodate the republicans is needed to wake them up to what they are doing, or they better clarify their purposes and intent to the rest of us.

I would also like to "see" a little more "activism" from DU contributors, and less talk.

Maybe a little flaming on both of us will wake us and our friends up.

[txaslftist]

7. I completely favor reform within...

but not by threatening to bail out or to run away. I agree with the general consensus that the democratic party is not the democratic party if we become a party of corporate hacks and DLC enablers. But we have to stick with the party to reform it. That means writing letters to our reps criticizing their accomodation to the other side. It means running for office ourselves. It means donating funds to those we agree with. It means supporting opposition democrats in democratic primaries.

It does not mean abandoning the democratic party. I really believe that abandoning the democratic party is as good as abandoning the fight. And that is something I won't have anything to do with.

[DaedelusNemo]

30. Where is there a coherent discussion about it?

I see lots of argument but it all stays right where it starts. There doesn't seem to be any concerted effort to 1)identify more specifically what the disagreements are 2) find out with polls where people are standing on them 3) discuss those disagreements. I see lots of labels flying around, but i'm not sure what they mean nor does it seem that others do. Is there a difference between liberals, progressives, and populists? What is it?

People argue about going more center and going more left. But there are a number of different issues being rolled up in one in that discussion. Economic issues, social issues... those are what need to get discussed, not just the back and forth "Center!" "Left!" "Center!" "Left!""Center!" "Left!"

[Telly Savalas]

33. Given how Joementum did in the primaries...

it's pretty clear that he doesn't represent the views of very many Democrats.

[autorank]

8. Some may be sorry to hear, but I AM NOT LEAVING THE PARTY

Today or any day. I'm proud that we have a new "profile in courage" with Boxer, Conyers, and the House Representatives. I'm hopeful that we'll pick an acceptable (i.e., not Roemer) DNC chief. I'm convinced that hard core activists will take over the party and, unlike the McGovern group, our activists will be aggressive progressives on a mission from the lard.

Things are going to get interesting sooner than any of us anticipates.

[txaslftist]

9. Maybe we should start an "I'm NOT leaving the party" discussion

[blondeatlast]

11. Those who are seething with anger and can't see beyond their own

issues would overtake it, and an honest discussion would degenerate into a flame war in no time.

Sad, but true. I've been doing my DNC discussions at DailyKos and MyDD, not here.

[blondeatlast]

10. People like you and I are needed now more than ever.

We know what our party represents, and we know our principles are the right ones.

We're the strength of the party and we are what will make it survive.

I'm a 4th gen yellow dog, and I'm not leaving until they throw me out by physical force.

[txaslftist]

12. NICE ICON !

hehe.

[welshTerrier2]

15. yes, you both are needed ...

the only thing i would add is that it's important for those making the case for people to stay in the party to show respect (i'm not suggesting you aren't doing so) to those who choose to leave ...

i am really struggling with this issue right now and getting bashed from both sides is no fun at all ... these are not easy issues and those who sincerely weigh the decision should earn no disrespect from either side ...

i would even extend that to the frequent disrespect we've seen in the past for Greens or Nader supporters ... my point isn't to endorse either ... it just seems to me that whatever uniform people to choose to wear, we still share many common objectives ... to drive wedges between progressives of all stripes seems counterproductive to me ...

if arguments are to be made for staying in the Democratic Party, they'll be more effective when made respectfully no matter how right you're convinced you are and how much you believe the "quitters" (not a helpful term) are wrong ...

hope this helps ... also hope this is seen as constructive ... the posts so far have all been reasonable and thoughtful ...

added on edit: in response to "Nice Icon", we may not all be yellow dogs, but welsh terriers have many things in common with you ...

[blondeatlast]

19. I mean absolutely no disrespect. But Democrat is as much of who I am as

my faith, my job, or how I raise my son.

I'm tired of the same old tired criticisms, with no alternatives or compromise offered. "My guy for DNC chair or I'm outta here."

One of the things that bugs me about DU is that it's become a "cult of personality." "MY GUY would have won the election, and it's the Party's fault he wasn't nominated, dammit."

Clark, Kerry, Dean, Sharpton, etc. ad nauseaum. What does that accomplish? What can the Party do that they didn't already do? Kerry made a damn respectable showing considering what the LW was up against, and I do believe there was some very stealthy fraud (not necessarily all BBV, either).

If the Democratic LEADERSHIP doesn't realize that we need to seriously rethink how politics is played, then they can go to hell. But I don't want the Party to go with them, and I think I can have more effect working from this position than threatening to leave.

I hope to God I'm right.

[welshTerrier2]

21. "same old tired criticisms"

both sides feel this way ...

if your point is that what far too often passes as well thought out discourse is often based on what you call "cult of personality" arguments (i call it "People Magazine" thinking or celebrity obsession), i agree ...

still, i'll stick to my main point which is that influence without respect is not possible ... if you want to influence others to your point of view, and in politics you should want to do that, you have to start with respect ... not agreement, not necessarily compromise, just simple respect ...

and yes, the same applies to those who choose to leave ... to leave in good conscience because the party does not represent your views and you don't believe those who do can gain control may be, to some, the right thing to do ... but that doesn't mean they shouldn't support those who stay behind to try to change things ...

i think we get so caught up in our uniforms, our labels and our heroes that we forget what we're fighting for ...

[blondeatlast]

31. Indeed, and I don't see it ending.

I hope you won't feel the need to leave, but I can sympathize. I feel pretty disenfranchised myself right now.

But as I say, it's pretty much in my blood so I'm really struggling now.

This is as close as I care to come to having an identity crisis!

[Telly Savalas]

34. Musing the decision to leave the party...

is something that most of us here respect. Personally, I feel abandoning the party isn't the right approach, but if you feel that the Democrats no longer represent your views and values, then perhaps you would be happier with the Greens or what not. I take pride in the inclusiveness and diversity of the party and hate to see it push people away. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

That said, I've lost all patience with the people that come in here making overly dramatic threats of leaving the party if a laundry list of demands isn't immediately met, and bashing the character of progressive Democrats who've dedicated their lives to making our nation a better place. And I know I'm not alone in this impatience. Those posts sound like emotionally brittle adolescents who threaten to committ suicide if their significant other dumps them. We don't need that shit around here. All it does is erode morale.

If someone wants to have a serious and sober discussion about if the party is still right for them, then I'd like to think that this discussion board is a good place to do it and that they'd find sympathetic ears. In contrast, if someone is posting shit like "Russ Feingold is a spineless coward! The Democrats are all pussies!", then it's pretty clear that their future isn't in the Democratic Party, and they have very little constructive to offer here.

[Skidmore]

13. Naaahh....

"I hope this is a sign that people are starting to stiffen a bit, toughen up a bit and getting ready for a long and difficult fight."

Some of us have been too busy yarfing and too weak to dissent. Yeesh, weak tea is even too much. How do those bulimics do it?

[mattclearing]

14. More likely that they all finally cut and run. Phew. Glad that's over.

eom

[blondeatlast]

16. Ain't it pretty to think so?

How I hope you are correct.

But in the days leading up to the DNC Chair election, I ain't gonna hold my breath. I remember the primaries, and I just aggravated an old injury from them!

[mattclearing]

17. These people left, so why would they care who the DNC chair is?

:D

[blondeatlast]

20. Hmmmmm...

True enough, but I doubt we've heard the last of them.

[txaslftist]

18. I would that it were so...

Some of the threads are so bleak and despairing, and some are so patently divisive that I wonder if they're put out there by trolls. I saw one last weak suggesting that we boycott the '98 elections as a protest against accomodation by centrist democrats. Boycott the elections? I thought only Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity could have posted such a thing.

Talk about advocating political suicide!

[welshTerrier2]

22. "boycott the '98 elections"

sheesh ... talk about taking the longterm view ... i'm all for planning ahead but that's kinda crazy ...

[txaslftist]

23. Ooops.. LOL...I meant 2008 elections.

Took me a while to get that one, too.

embarrassing.

[welshTerrier2]

29. under the radar ...

love to try to slip them in under the radar ... often the greatest humor is in discovery ... glad it amused you ...

good thread too even if i might end up being "one of those" ... we'll see ...

[greenohio]

24. LOL Maybe they've already cut and ran?

Good post. I do think we are begining to heal some as I've noted on other threads.

[txaslftist]

25. Dad gummit. Got someone running to the Green Party ...

In General Discussion today. I spared them my usual rant, but still pisses me off.

[greenohio]

26. They'll come back come game time. I did.

Its hard to vote for certain loss over and over.

[txaslftist]

27. It's always game time...

That's the thing I don't think folks realize. It's always campaign season and it's always game time.

You gotta play all four quarters or you lose certain.

[okieinpain]

28. well I just posted one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=172x5139