The Dean speech is being blown out of proportion

[jpgray]

I think most of the problem was that his voice was hoarse from constant campaigning. I remember a debate (Rainbow/PUSH?) when Kerry had *truly* lost his voice (sounded fine in Iowa and NH today) and was cracking and rasping all over the place. His message was fine, but he sounded weak and defeated and unsure because of the voice. I think the same thing happened here. Dean's words were fine in the speech, and the enthusaism was fine, but the voice wasn't "comfortable" for people, and that's what's sticking in the craws today.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

1. no surprise

more attacks on style, rather than substance from the corporate media and the DLC supporters

[MercutioATC]

2. Agreed. It was a "Dean" speech with a hoarse voice, not an aberration.

The speech itself was typical Dean energy...the voice was off.

[Bundbuster]

35. I think it was more

than just a hoarse voice. Unfortunately in today's world of visual soundbites, image is (almost) everything.

[Mass_Liberal]

46. give me a link, I BEG YOU!!!!

Everybody is talking about it and I am curious as hell. Help a fellow dean supporter out, man.

[creativelcro]

47. LOL: like Kerry has not been having a hoarse voice...

[Cocoa]

3. it's not really fair

but it's such a strange thing that it's bound to become THE soundbite of the whole campaign. It's even stranger on the radio than on TV. I heard it this morning, and was wondering if a bird of prey got into the room when I heard that scream.

[Frederic Bastiat]

4. The speech was a disaster

He should have congratulated Kerry and Edwards. Thanked his Iowa supporters. Said the caucus machanics were complex and that they would evaluate what happened. Express confidence in New Hampshire.

Humble. Self-deprecating humor. Sobriety.

It was the exact opposite.

[joefree1]

7. Wrong

"I have called Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards and congratulated them and told them we would see them around the corner on the other side of the block starting tomorrow morning.

I have called Representative Gephardt and thanked him for a courageous run. I worked for him in 1988. I still feel some loyalty to him. He did the best he could, and I appreciate his long career of service for the United States of America."

Try again.

[Frederic Bastiat]

My apologies

I turned off after the roar.

[DemLikr]

14. I'm not necessarily a Deanie, and I LIKED the speech and the "roar"

Seems to me we Dems are gradually becoming as tepidly tight-assed as the Republicans. Little by little, we adopt their public definition of what is permissible or "presidential" or what is not.

Dean's speech was energetic, enthusiastic, spirited, and fun...god, what a tragedy for the oh, so proper Democratic Party to have to endure.

:eyes:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

44. This is the Presidential race. There's a higher standard in THAT race.

n/t

[Ramsey]

38. You listened to the first 2 minutes?

And you still feel qualified to comment on the contents of the speech that lasted over 20 minutes?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

43. When did he congratulate them? Didn't hear it....

n/t

[Mudcat]

8. I disagree...

... and I'm a Clark supporter :) If Dean wants to have a snowball's chance in Hades of doing well in NH, he needs to hold his head high, rally his key leaders/organizers, and keep his broad base of supporters motivated (before they defect).

Heh, I guess what I'm saying is, he needs to be more like Clark :)

[PVnRT]

22. Why?

Why is it that Dean is expected to be gracious, but no one else is? I'm having a little trouble comprehending this.

[leyton]

36. Edwards was gracious.

His speech was classy, especially what he said about Gephardt. You'll see no yelling from him.

When I saw Dean scream and screech, I wondered if he could ever convince me to vote for him, let alone a swing voter. That's how unsettling it was.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

45. EVERYONE else was. Kerry, Gep, Edwards, Clark, Kucinich....

and yes, we do expect them to be gracious also...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

42. Did he not congratulate Kerry or Edwards?

THAT's gotta be a first in Presidential politics...

[joefree1]

5. Not much of an issue

Some are trying to get in a last few swipes before the Kerry vs. Clark threads start. Enjoy the pease while we regroup and reload while the flack flys elsewhere.


Images from Dean Rocks the House of Blues, Hollywood
From wtmusic http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=919849
From Joefree1 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=921300

[Dookus]

6. well...

as I was watching it, my jaw was on the floor. I'd never seen anything quite like it.

Then within minutes, a lot of people here (including some Dean supporters) were saying the same thing.

While watching it, I knew it would become the video highlight of the week. And today, we're seeing it show up everywhere. Nobody should be surprised - it was easy to see this coming.

The speech was damaging to Dean, whether people individually agree or not. A lot of people not terribly familiar with Dean saw it and it won't go over well with them.

Sorry to seem like I'm piling on, but this speech really was unusual, and I'm not a bit surprised it's getting such attention.

[joefree1]

10. But ....

I thought the Clark freaked out on that exchanged with Dole yesterday on CNN. However you don't see a hundred post on it do you.

Hmmm, with so many potshots at Dean we must still be doing pretty good.

[jpgray]

13. Oh, I agree that it was unusual, and damaging

But I disagree with some here that it's a sign of Dean "losing it" or "going nuts". The speech itself is very similar in plain text to his usual style, he just tried to give the yell one too many times in Iowa. How the voices last for even that long, I'll never know.

[edzontar]

26. Piling on?

nt

[mot78]

9. That speach was a blunder

Dean did have a hoarse voice, but when he spoke today his voice seemed fine. That scream was really creepy IMO.

[elperromagico]

11. I think most of US have gotten over it,

but you can bet Rove creamed his pants when he saw it. It's the kind of thing he can use to paint Dean as a madman who's too "angry."

Having just read it, I think it's not a bad speech at all, but it plays right into the conservatives' hands.

[K8-EEE]

27. It Was The Delivery....

I don't think there was any content of the speech that was as disturbing as the delivery of it -- he looked and sounded like he was coming unglued.

Also there was nothing particularly inspiring in the content, your basic, "we won't give up" stuff that probably Gep was saying last month.

[glarius]

12. CNN's Kyra Phillips kept referring to it as an "angry" outburst but to me

It just seemed that he was overly effusive....It wasn't very attractive, but I didn't interpret it as anger!

[elperromagico]

15. But all Bush has to do is say that Dean is "angry,"

and a lot of underinformed voters will believe it.

We must always bear in mind that not all voters care about politics as much as we do. They'll make their decisions based on visceral reactions. Bush will portray himself as the down-home nice guy who has made the country safer, and will portray Dean as the angry man who can't control himself. It's not accurate, but it will stick unless Dean manages to dispel it.

[glarius]

18. That smarmy Tucker Carlson just repeated the official right wing line

Dean displayed uncontrolled anger!....This is obviously what they are going to be pushing....They are disgusting!

[K8-EEE]

28. It Didn't Look Angry At All!

It just looked baaaaad.....

[onecitizen]

16. This reminds me of the...........

hoopla over the Sen. Wellstone memorial. People have different levels of what they consider polite and/or acceptable. What I think is great someone else may think is gross.

[Cleita]

17. After reading the reports on DU last night

I was led to believe he had lost it. Getting a chance to see it this morning I find myself looking at a rally similar to the Wellstone memorial. What was wrong with cheering everyone on??? So now they are going to demonize him for it??? Tucker Carlson called him every negative adjective in the book just now on crossfire and all James Carville could say was that he got a little carried away.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR DEMOCRATIC SPOKESPEOPLE??? CARVILLE SHOULD HAVE SHOVED IT BACK IN TUCKER'S FACE INSTEAD OF APOLOGIZING!!!

[san antonio]

23. Because it WAS over the top

Carlson the the head thought it was over the top because it WAS over the top. This isn't a conservative conspiracy, Dean took a page from Stone Cold Steve Austin.

[oldcoot]

19. I agree

I did not see or hear anything offensive when I listened to the speech. What I saw was an exhausted candidate who was trying to inspire his supporters after a disappointing loss. If any of the other candidates had given this speech with this tone of voice, I would be saying the same thing.

It is ironic that this speech is getting so much attention considering that we have a president who can barely speak English and insults people on a regular basis. Recently, a Canadian paper ( http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040116.wreid0116/BNStory/Front/ ) printed an article about Bush telling Scott Reid, senior strategist to Prime Minister Paul Martin, has a "pretty face." He managed to insult McClellan. Now I consider Bush's comments far more embarrassing than anything Dean said last night. However, I yet to see this story appear in a single U.S. newspaper.

It is really unfortunate that this speech may hurt Dean. Hopefully, the other candidates will learn from Dean's mistake and realize that they cannot afford any mistakes, even if they are minor.

[GalleryGod]

29. NOW, This A.M. he's Yelling us he's an "Underdog" with an 8% Lead!?!

N.H. Rally...after spending the entire flight,up front with Trippi,he comes up with "I'm the UNDERdog":wtf: .

An 8%point LEAD, "UnderDog"???:silly:

Grab some Decaf,Doc-tuh!


I Have in front of me the assesments of 43 College Sophomores who watched ALL the Post Game Speeches in Class today...

Dean's Ranks Dead Last.

9 of His Dean Supporters felt "embarassed" by it.

[BootinUp]

33. 43...

Oh shit! the RW media got to all of them in less than 24 hrs, simple explanation. /sarcasm

[Sparkle]

20. You know what?

I just heard his speech on Crossfire. It's the second time that I have heard it. The first time was last night on C-Span and it sounded much worse. But when I heard it today on Crossfire it didn't sound nearly as bad as last nite.

[Monument]

21. That speech was a disaster. I get where he was coming from, but...<eom>

[45th Med]

24. I almost felt audiologically assaulted, in the car.......

listening to NPR. I think Dean blundered in a way that shows that he is not quite mentally adjusted to running this country, not to mention turning things around.

Clark supporter here but I really like how Kerry has been fighting and I'd easily vote for a Kerry ticket. How can anyone not love a River Rat?

[K8-EEE]

25. It Horrified Me -- And I Watched No Commentary On It.

I saw that and I just went...NOPE!! UH UH! They ALL were hoarse. But he looked/sounded hoarse and kinda nuts. Believe me I got no joy in seeing that, we gave the guy $100 and now I hope to God he doesn't win the primary.

I really think that was the turning point. I'll vote for him if he wins the primary but I think that turned a lot of people off besides my husband and I.

[molly]

30. I caught a replay this morning and thought it was

the most bizarre display of incredible, blatant rage I had ever seen. I almost felt sorry for him.

[Zomby Woof]

40. Congrats on 400 posts!

:toast: :party: :bounce:

[GumboYaYa]

31. The speech was a massive mistake.

I am a Dean supporter. I have been canvassing for Dean every weekend since August. I attend meetups regularly and I am actively involved in the Dean campaign here in Missouri.

The performance last night is causing me to reevaluate my support of Dean. I have never faltered in my support in the face of prior attacks on him because in the past, the so-called flip-flops and gaffes have been largely media creations.

My wife and I sat and watched that speech in horror last night. Dean knows the attacks he has suffered the past few weeks and the attempt to paint him as unstable. Someone in the campaign had to know that coming on stage and screaming "yeaawahh" or whatever nonsense he was screaming would not help his image. He created this mess himself and that shows a lack of judgment and good sense IMO.

Today I am reevaluating my participation in his campaign. I have serious doubts about whether a man who so grossly fails to recognize the effect of his words on his campaign could ever beat George Bush.

[youngred]

32. I agree, but heres my main problem with it

On Kerry and Edwards Big night, all the next morning buzz was did you see howard dean get up there and yell. Granted a lot of that is neg, but there is no suck thing as negative publicity and it certainly takes some teeth out of the Edwards and Kerry victories

[jpgray]

34. In that vein, I was annoyed that Edwards' speech was interrupted (nt)

[youngred]

37. agreed nt

[Zomby Woof]

41. yep

I just think he looked like a damn fool - unpresidential, and dippy. Wasn't scary so much as it was just plain foolish. That is not who I want to represent the Democrats, ever.

[quaker bill]

39. Agreed on the out of proportion bit

Actually, I rather liked the speech. If you see it all in context, it was appropriate.