If Dean becomes DNC Chair what do you expect will happen?

[WI_DEM]

What will be the reaction? what will he do? and how successful do you think he will be? That may be a tough one to answer. Do you expect some in the party will try to undermine him? Your thoughts.

My guess is he will become one of the most publicized DNC Chair and will be in great demand to be on news shows, ect.

[chicagojoe]

1. A new type of Democratic Party will rise from the ashes.

One thing is for certain, in my opinion. The Dem party has to come back as Democrats, period. Here's what I mean. No "factions" of the Democrats. One solid party. No Dean-o-crats, no Clark-o-crats,etc.
After the party chooses its candidates; after you've had your chance to campaign for the the one you want in the primaries, that's it.
One United Party. The Repubs would HAVE NEVER won without this kind of philosophy.

[sybylla]

9. Yeah, and that kind of philosophy has allowed fundamentalists

to take over the puke party because no one will stand and refute their hate. What price glory?

I don't think that's the kind of example we need to follow.

[chicagojoe]

12. Obviously, IT WORKS.

I wouldn't feel bad about using that tactic if it works. The fundamentalists are the problem; not their tactics. Face it if we're going to be Democrats, let's be Democrats. We can no longer go on being fifteen factions with fifteen different agenda under an umbrella.

[sybylla]

15. The point is that zero tolerance for dissent

has allowed the Puke party to become infested with wrong-headed idealogy and corporate corruption.

The Democratic Party SHOULD remain the party of Democracy. As always, the majority of members should set the agenda, build the platform and support candidates. Are you saying that democracy is too inclusive for the Dem party? Are we to dictate what the Dem party now means? We're supposed to adopt a "like it or leave it" mentality?

The day that happens is the day the Democratic Party dissolves into ineffectual nothingness.

[chicagojoe]

16. Why would there be dissent among Democrats, though?

The Democrats would stand for what Democrats always have. We are not
"all parties except the Republicans, all under one roof".
We are not Liberatarians, Greens , or Communists. We are Democrats.
We need to come together, create a platform, and stand on it. Anyone else who wants to come along for the ride after that is more than welcome. The Democratic Party has become too watered down. There is TOO MUCH dissent. That's the problem.

[sybylla]

24. Why wouldn't there be dissent?

How long have you been here? Start a thread about reproductive rights (abortion), hunting (RKBA), PETA (animal rights), or "under god" in the pledge (separation of church and state) and you'll find plenty of dissent.

What is happening in the republican party is what happens when a small fraction of the whole is allowed to have equal say in the party's activities as the majority. If a candidate gets nominated who's idealogy is barely in keeping with the party's platform, no one is allowed to challenge that candidate's party affiliation. It's salute or die a political death. This is exactly how the fundamentalists took over the republikan party in the 80's. It used to be a party of normal people who just disagreed with Dems about how things should be done. Now it's a party of fundamentalist morality cops and fear because they bought the bullshit about "no dissent" and standing behind the candidates and fundamentalist members no matter what idiocy they put forth.

The irony is that if the republican party suddenly took their voice back, where would these fundamentalists go? Like the Greens, at this point in time, the pukes are their best bet.

And as far as "we are not all parties except republicans" is concerned, I totally agree. In fact, no where in my post did I say that we need to be all inclusive. I fully support the Democratic platform. What I don't support is incorporating the "zeig heil" mentality of the Republican party into the way we do business.

[chicagojoe]

30. Maybe I didn't get it out the way I was thinking about it.

When I speak of building a platform, I would like to see it built by a much wider spectrum of people. The current regressive platform of the Republican party has been built by the Radical Right, which is not as big as they'd like America to believe.

Whether anyone likes to admit it, the VAST MAJORITY of Americans are
Centrist. Some more to the Left; some more to the Right, but Centrist
nonetheless. The Radical Right, in the past several years, has grabbed up a lot of votes through fear, and by making some Americans
see fellow Americans as "the enemy". This is insane.

Now I'm about to say some things that will piss a lot of people off. Oh, well. A real problem on either side of the center-line is that too many mountains are made out of mole hills. Most average Americans DON'T CARE, on a daily basis, about PETA, abortion rights, etc. I'm an atheist, and I could give a rats ass about "under god" bullshit. MOST AMERICANS just want to get through life without the government wasting tax dollars that get yanked out of their usually too small paychecks. And now, Wall St. wants your SS dollars. My whole point is, let's cut the crap and get to the bread and butter issues--healthcare reform, education improvement, and living wages for workers. The REAL ENEMY in America is the Radical Right and the scummy faction of corporate America. Let's get to work.

[DaedelusNemo]

34. Centrists are liberals - check out views on issues in exit polls/nt

[chicagojoe]

35. Never said they weren't.

Let's not get caught up in who is considered a liberal nowadays.
The Radical Right has painted everyone from McCain-left a liberal, with which I don't agree. I also don't agree with the radical left,i.e. far left-socialists and communists.

[DaedelusNemo]

37. Right, the go left or go center debate isn't to the point

America is a historically liberal country in which the conservatives have gained ascendancy over the last couple of decades. "Liberal" as a name-brand has been pissed on, but people still believe in liberal issues like health care, education and minimum wage. Indeed, a lot of Bush's voters did so under the mistaken impression that he shared their views.

Where people disagree more is in the social issues - but people disagree on those issues within each party, too. We don't have to cater to the theocrats - appeal to the live and let live guys. We might be able to defuse those issues somewhat if we can make the case that it is the megacorporations, not the gov't and certainly not the dems, who control the 'filth on the tv', which is what really has most of them worked up.

[purduejake]

33. Speak for yourself.

There are greens and other parties besides the dems. Apparently the big difference is that the third parties themselves actually fight for recounts and aren't afraid to actually call out the war criminals for what they are. Look at it this way, this idea of too much dissent seems ridiculous to me. It seems like pretty much everybody voted for Kerry. Come on, I believe the greens only ran in "safe" states. The problem is that the third parties keep on trusting the dems who are more concerned about re-election than what is right.

[trogdor]

20. That's NOT what's being said.

What is being said is that we should work as a team. Yes, you still get to be an individual, but when it comes to getting our guys elected, that should be first and foremost in your mind. What you believe, right or wrong, doesn't mean DICK unless you have the means to carry out your agenda.

If I may use a football metaphor, we're close to playing goal-line defense right now. That means everyone has to get with the program. You fail to hold up your end, and the Pubbies will score a touchdown. In 2001, post-Jeffords, they were on our 45. Last year, they were on our thirty. I would say that at the present time, the Pubbies have the ball on our eighteen yard line, well within field-goal range.

You don't want to play goal line defense. Most of the time, that means the other team is pretty much going to get the six points. All that remains is one or two plays you're ill-equipped to defend against.

Bottom line: Before you can push this or that "nice to have" agenda item, we must fix the country. To do that, we must get elected, to do that, we have to convince a majority of people that we <i>can</i> fix the country, and have a better game plan than the other team. Can I make that any more clear?

[sybylla]

25. There is a big difference between being a team

and being a borg. chicagojoe's initial remarks were unclear as to which type of party he was hoping would rise from the ashes. I was seeking clarification.

[eridani]

42. Our crazy people are much nicer than their crazy people

Their crazy people expect the Rapture to come soon so they can float high above it all and giggle at other people's misery. Our crazy people can be bought off by establishing universal health care and fucking outsourcing straight up the ass.

[genius]

21. My fear is that supporters of other candidates will be punished

by not getting appointed to committees that make decisions about the direction the party will follow. In Califonria, last weekend at the organizational meetings, there has been word that in a number of places Dean people closed ranks and instisted on excluding supporters of other candidates from AD positions and state central committee positions. My experience last week was that the Dean people tried to take over and failed in the areas I'm familiar with.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. that's not what happened

We simply put our people in where we could get the votes. This is how politics is done. I wouldn't worry about anyone being "punished" unless they have a clear agenda to move the party rightwards and vote republican every chance they get.

For example, if you're a Lieberman or Zell Miller supporter, you might look elsewhere if you want anythiung.

[liberal N proud]

2. Maybe the Democratic Party will get some balls and kick some

ass.

[Lautremont]

3. His microphone will always be turned way up when he's on TV

so as to catch the slightest exaggerateable exclamation.

[janx]

4. There would be a commitment to election reform, both in

the primaries and the general election. There would also be one heck of a lot of activity at the state and local levels.

[Cha]

7. It would be like no other DNC chair

in par-tee history! :kick:

[Capn Sunshine]

5. We'll make serious and meaningful progress toward our goal

In WAY less time. Howard Dean thinks like a democrat. A Roosevelt democrat. THAT is what the leaders of the party don't understand; they are so desperate to avid things and labels thatthey aren't standing on principle. WE lost the recent election because we failed to articulate a CLEAR message about how we're different. John Kerry did the best he could with what they gave him, and he's so skilled that had he had another two weeks he might have been able to forge the message that they were fighting him tooth and nail on. He didn't, and our message never got out there.

Guess what : it WAS about terrorism and who could fight it better. But more on this later.

[AndyTiedye]

10. Our Message Can Never Get Anywhere...

...as long as the media is totally beholden to the Republicans.
It doens't matter what we say, it doesn't matter what we do,
it doesn't matter who does it.

[Capn Sunshine]

11. That's the spirit

We don't need the media to talk to folks one on one. Word of mouth and the internet trumps lies. Don't give up so easily. Get to work.

[Renew Deal]

28. You are correct.

I think Dean can make this happen.

[AndyTiedye]

29. How?

> We don't need the media to talk to folks one on one.

I am always willing to do that, but I rarely come into contact with
Boosh** voters. I only know *ONE*, who is someone who *really* should
know better, but has been taken in by FauxNews and will not listen to me.

> Word of mouth and the internet trumps lies.

If that were true, we would be preparing to celebrate the inauguration
of President Gore for his second term.

> Don't give up so easily.

I haven't, but it is rather a lot like trying to bail a sinking ship with a spoon.

> Get to work.

How does one actually turn someone who has been brainwashed by Faux
away from the Kool-Aid? Have you found anything that works?

[PassingFair]

46. We don't need to sway the pukes on this one.

This is all about us. Dean will invigorate the dems on the local level. I see it already. I'm a part of it in my state.
Start talking to other dems at every available opportunity.
He will get people involved.
Let's go!

[chicagojoe]

13. Absolutely.

[CWebster]

14. terrorism?

the war on terrorism is the latest version of searching for the commie under the bed.

Winning the war on terrorism is such a fraud. What are we gonna do- kill all Arabs seeking justice?

Both sides use this sabre rattling and neither side is willing to address Israel, for example, through a critical and "even-handed" eye.

Even being "even-handed" is taboo.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[ChristianButLiberal]

8. we'll go back to the roots of our party

I think Dean will rally the party like never before, just as he got the party mobilized when he ran. I also think we will be the democrats we were before. The same Democrats that fought for civil rights and the same Democrats that won World War II. Ahhh, the good ol' days!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[wicket]

26. "I think they call JFK Democrats from that era "zell miller democrats" now

Bwhahahahaha, stop it, you're killing me!

:nopity:

[ibegurpard]

17. Dean can't change anything by himself

but if he gets the chairmanship, then it will signal to me that there are enough Democrats out there committed to addressing the same problems that he (and people like me) sees in the party and that we will start to move away from politics as usual.

[byronm]

23. Maybe not..

But he has a following of supporters big enough to make some major changes and big enough to be heard.

[LeftCoast]

18. I don't expect miracles

But if Dean is able to accomplish even half of his goals (hell, even 1/4) the party will be far ahead of where it is now.

[Zhade]

22. I expect a few DLCers will shed their masks in frustration.

Probably join up with their Republican infiltrator counterparts here and mount a last-ditch blitzkrieg on Skinner and company. :D

Seriously, though, I would expect a lot of rancor in the party as the Repub-lites get their clocks cleaned by more populist challengers over the next decade.

[marcologico]

31. He'll use it as a launching pad, natch. Why else would he want it? n/t

[Lexingtonian]

32. Manna will fall from heaven

Water will gush forth from every rock he touches.

A pillar of fire will lead Democrats to The Promised Land.

The infidels will be smitten with bolts of lightning, and fall to their knees in awe.

[montana500]

36. the media will play the scream again and again

over and over in attempts to demean him.

[Liberty Belle]

39. We should adopt it as a rallying cry.

Dems shouting a Dean Scream at every rally across the land.
Make it a positive--and take back our country in Virginia, and Iowa, and Maine, and....well, you get the idea.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!

[Gyre]

38. Confrontation will happen

instead of the chronic loser appeasement non-strategy of the DLC. You can take that to the bank.

Gyre

[dvaravati]

40. Dean will become a corrupt insider

or he will get undermined and removed.
I wish he would run for President instead.

[Carolab]

41. I do too.

I think he has them "over a barrel", because if they turn him down for chair, he'll run again. But if they do choose him, they'll have to play along in a whole new ballgame.

[eridani]

43. He will kick anyone who doesn't take black box voting---

--and voter suppression seriously right in the nuts.

[RogueTrooper]

44. If Dean becomes the Chair of the DNC?

I think he will invade their language, jail their leaders and convert them to liberalism.

[Guaranteed]

45. Honestly? The Republicans will be scared shitless.

Count on it.

[BlueInRed]

47. Two things, party transformation and media ridicule

I think he will transform the party back into a force to be reckoned with and set the stage for retaking numerous states and putting on a strong 50 state campaign in 08. I think he will do great things for getting people involved and believing they can take on the Goliaths in the GOP. I also think he will continue to show people that we can compete with the big money guys in the GOP through lots of small donations. He'll also get the focus of the party back where it needs to be -- taking care of average Joe and Jane citizens.

On the flip side, I think he will be attacked by the media and GOP like no one before him. It means he'll get lots of airtime. I think Dean can hold his own, but there's no doubt his statements will be replayed over and over out of context to try and make him look like a fruitloop.

Overall, I think the party transformation will overcome the anti-Dean media spin. I think party transformation is the ONLY thing that can save us (the country, not just the party). So I support Dean even though I know he will be under constant attack by the media.

[marcologico]

48. He'll turn the DNC into one big infomercial and abscond with the funds. nt