Update on the "paid blogger" attempt to excuse Armstrong Williams.

[madfloridian]

I compiled this, as we need to be very sure what they are about. They are attempting to excuse Armstrong's behavior by unjustly turning it on our side. Here are some thoughts on this.

Zephyr's Miscalculation
Kos speaks out loudly.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/14/02014/6287
SNIP.."Fact is, my consulting work for Dean was noted in over a dozen
articles written at the time. And it was disclosed in this post, and in a
front-page disclaimer, right under the site logo. (See the site on the Way
Back Machine, and also notice how the Meetup graphic was for the Democratic
Party, not the Dean campaign.)
So what's going on? Zephyr is obsessed with imposing journalistic standards
on the blogosphere. We can debate the merits of this issue, and good points
can be made on both sides (I think it's a dumb idea). But what Zephyr did,
and which I find unconscionable, is that she took the Armstrong Williams
issue, and made up shit about our involvement with the Dean campaign to
score points.

And "made up sh*t" is the right way to word it. Jerome created the first
Dean website in early 2002. He created the first Dean-centric blog. He
signed up the Dean campaign for MeetUps and convinced Trippi to promote the
service. In other words, Jerome was the father of the Dean netroots. That's
why the Joe Trippi (not Zephyr!) eventually hired "us" (and by "us", I mean
Jerome). "END SNIP

Zephyr Teachout: Donkey Splat
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/1/13/231623/665
Jerome defends himself and Kos.
Jerome admirably defends himself.

More
It was well known about Kos...Long article here.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/15/BAGR14A8Q71.DTL
Web forum shapes political thinking
Dean consultant in Berkeley builds 'blog' into influential tool
Rob Morse, Chronicle Staff Writer

Thursday, January 15, 2004
SNIP..."On a modest street in the flats of Berkeley there's a little yellow
bungalow
behind a shabby fence. It's one of those places you expect to find a pit
bull, but instead you find a bright young mayor of a city of about 70,000
liberal activists, writers, kibitzers, kidders and some folks who clearly
have a lot of time on their hands.

The city that Markos Moulitsas Zuniga runs isn't named Berkeley. It's called
Daily Kos ("Kos" was Moulitsas' Army nickname) and it's a city in the
metaphorical sense, reached by mouse and keyboard.

Daily Kos is a political Web log, or "blog," an online diary where diarists
can post anything they want. The political blogosphere is divided into right
and left halves, and this one is on the liberal side. It's run by a man
who is a paid consultant for Democratic presidential hopeful Howard Dean,
although he will accept any Democrat instead of President Bush."EMD SNIP

This was pretty well known to most of us. I think most folks knew it.

In addition it was linked from his blog in about these words:

"Disclosure: I do some consulting work for Howard Dean," and linked to a
longer explanation of same.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/13/202455/871
More from Kos on this. He is discussing it with Instapundit.

And from the Zephyr Teachout statement:
http://zonkette.blogspot.com/2005/01/financially-interested-blogging.html

"This is now getting routine – Simon Rosenberg hired Matt Stoller,
presumably not just because he’s got good ideas, but because he already has
a “commentator,” “spokesperson,” role within the blogging media. The scale
is infinitely smaller, but its odd to live in a world where we don’t blink
when commentators are hired as spokespeople. Imagine Howard Dean hiring
Maureen Dowd!"

More about Stoller:
Blogging of the President is a group blog done by a number of people. The
editor is Matt Stoller. He can be reached at [e-mail]. Chris Lydon,
Stirling Newberry, Jay Rosen, Ellen Nagler, Barry Ritholz, Ian Welsh, Marcy
Wheeler, Zephyr Teachout, Ally Giard, Justin Krebs, and Josh Koenig
contribute.END SNIP

Zephyr, huh. And Trippi loudly endorsed Rosenberg. Maybe we have a whole lot of paid consultant stuff going around. You think?

Newberry and Stoller were Clark bloggers. If they were paid we have the same thing there. Did Kerry have paid consultants who blogged?

Will the Democrats let Armstrong Williams be let off or will they speak out?

[grumpy old fart]

1. And all that really matters is * spent MY MONEY.....

and that makes a HUGE difference. Gov't using taxpayer money to spread stealth propaganda is ILLEGAL. Hell, everyone understands that Fox is shilling for Chimp, but MY MONEY isn't paying them. (Well, at least there's no evidence yet....)

[KittyWampus]

3. DU'er AP Also Pointed Out That TV Is Subject To FCC Regulations

[fertilizeonarbusto]

5. Precisely

And I remember Kos fully disclosing ages ago. This is just the usual bullshit. I say the government should get hit with tons of FOIA requests. I bet that if that happens the list of whores will grow considerably.

[ladjf]

2. And, Dean isn't the President.

[NoPasaran]

4. Jerome and Kos were open consultants

Armstrong Williams was a stealth whore.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. The only phrase that is germane:

Taxpayer. Money.

Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Period.

[madfloridian]

8. BUT will our Democrats have the guts to say so?

Or will they let it ride to not make waves.

[eg101]

7. Gee, what a surprise. Dean pays bloggers. I'm shocked!

Shocked, I tell you.

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. It's very simple

Campaign funds and the rules of spending vs. taxpayer dollars and the LAWS of spending. Period.

The bloggers do not need to defend themselves on that issue. Faux Views (and now the rest of the MSM) wants to highlight, distract and distort things. Will we get *ahem* "balance" on the bloggers that got campaign dollars from B/C 04 or the RNC for advertising?

It's media distraction and needs to be kept on the issue of spending TAXPAYER dollars contrary to the law.

[brainshrub]

10. Taxpayer money.

That's the only thing you need to remember.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Does this Zephr person understand the definition of disclosure?

Armstrong DID NOT disclose to anyone about his financial arrangements; but it appears that those who worked on the Dem blog did.

Do you think the Zephr person is capable of understanding this very obvious difference>

[madfloridian]

12. Check out my last paragraph and few sentences.

I am getting uneasy vibes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. I don't see the conflict. You can't compare blogs and Armstrong Williams.

Williams is subject to FCC rules. Blogs are not.

Also, it doesn't sound like there was anything secretive about the people working for the Dean or Dem campaigns.

The Republicans are really going on a stretch on this one.

As for paying commentators on the networks to speak kindly of the Dems, my question is simple, "Who?" Who has helped out the Dems in the last ten years? By comparison, there are more commentators who are vocally more pro-conservative, than there are liberal ones. So we can start this game, tit for tat and disclose the watershed of payments, and I suspect we'll still come out looking better than the conservatives.

[madfloridian]

14. Never mind.

I think the Dean campaign ought to address this. Zephyr should have known better and probably did.

Never mind.

[Southsideirish]

15. What the heck was she thinking? And she used to be one of my heroes.

Does she have it "in" for Kos?

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. PM me, please.

I've been racing through a lot of posts these last two days and missing critical points. I value you opinion, madfloridian, and want to be sure I understand your position.

[KoKo]

18. You are saying that "Trippi" has no loyalty to Dean and never did?

That perhaps "Trippi" has been given all the credit for starting the concept "Online Campaign Contributions" and running a Campaign by recruiting the "grassroots" when in fact he didn't deserve the credit?

That maybe "Trippi" has always been working for the DLC and those in the DNC who were against Dean...and this smear campaign comparing Dean to Williams is part of the bigger DLC/DNC effort to join with the Repugs to stop Dean?

Is that what you might be thinking? :shrug:

[madfloridian]

19. Here are Dean's words from Woodruff interview:

I am not sure what is going on, just posting facts. But why aren't they going after Rosenberg for paying a blogger? What's the difference.


SNIP..."But Joe Trippi says of you, Howard Dean, he says, "We are muting one of the
most progressive voices in the party, when we ought to be taking somebody
who knows how to make the apparatus work, which Howard was not really that
interested in."

DEAN: I'm not going to -- I'm not going to go after Joe Trippi. I have been
very good about that.

This is not about Joe Trippi. The election is about the future of Democrats
and the future of democracy."

[KoKo]

20. Which blogger did

Rosenberg pay....didn't understand your comment. Thought this was all about Dean Campaign paying Kos and MYDD for Consulting work.

Confused...

[madfloridian]

21. From my OP

And from the Zephyr Teachout statement:
http://zonkette.blogspot.com/2005/01/financially-intere...

"This is now getting routine – Simon Rosenberg hired Matt Stoller,
presumably not just because he’s got good ideas, but because he already has
a “commentator,” “spokesperson,” role within the blogging media. The scale
is infinitely smaller, but its odd to live in a world where we don’t blink
when commentators are hired as spokespeople. Imagine Howard Dean hiring
Maureen Dowd!"

Zephyr may disapprove of hiring bloggers on campaigns, but it is really odd the way she came out with it. She also mentioned that Rosenberg is using BOP blog and paying them. I may be inclined to agree about some parts.....but she did not differentiate about the taxpayer money. And she is part of BOP blog and its radio.

I am mostly wondering how far things will go. And I don't know what to think. It would be very sad if the Democrats let this go on like this....bottom line "taypayer money."

[KoKo]

28. And, Chris Heinz gives link to Stoller's website in support for Rosenberg

in his post here on DU. Chris says he doesn't speak for Kerry, but he's actively promoting Rosenberg.

[KoKo]

17. Intenet Sites paid for by whomever are NOT My Taxpayer Dollars going

to support Armstrong Williams or anyone ELSE to promote Propaganda from the Bush Administration. Williams was paid by the US Department of Education with our Tax Dollars to lobby on the public airwaves (undisclosed) the position of the Republican Party.

That's very different from going online on the Internet and searching out a site which supports my own political values. Anyone knows the Intenet has sites for every particular interest and is not regulated by the FTC. It's yours and my CHOICE whether we go to Daily Kos website or Free Republic for our information.

[cruadin]

26. That's the key distinction that is often lost in this discussion.

I have no problem with any campaign hiring pitchmen to talk up their candidates/positions---as long as they're using their own money.
I have already decided that most of the MSM is whoring for somebody or other at any given time, so it doesn't even surprise me.
What goes up my ass sideways about the Armstrong Williams case is that it was MY tax dollars paying off their media whore.

[janx]

22. Wait Just One Minute!

Instead of analyzing the ins and outs and gossip in all of this, let's take a step back and ask ourselves what the real motive might be for this brou-ha-ha.

It's not about Zephr, and it's not about Kos, and it's not about Trippi.

Think about it. What are the media really trying to do in the larger scheme of things? ;-)

[KoKo]

23. Yes....I keep trying to say that all over DU, today... This Blogger stuff

is nothing but another "Swift Boat Liars" scheme to distract the internet from creating pressure to disclose other Armstrong Williams in the Main Stream Media, which is supposed to be "regulated" as opposed t the Internet which is freeform and not regulated.

It's to get the Bloggers on the Left slinging arrows at each other and create distraction.

This "Zephyr" person get a big blub in the RW Wall St. Journal and it creates a problem for Dean Supporters on the Net.

I question the motives of this "Zephyr." Little payola there perhaps..??? Who knows. But, Intenet Bloggers are not the issue. Armstrong Williams using our Tax Dollars IS!!!!!!!

[janx]

27. It's an effort to shift blame, but the larger effort, it seems to

me, is to discredit Dean!

The WSJ took Zephr's information and added their twist. You're right--it's the divide and conquer strategy.

[underpants]

30. You got most of it but you missed the other point of this

to discredit the internet as a news source especially the bloggers (I hate that word) and discussion forums such as DU. The last thing the media wants is everyone talking amongst themselves which weakens their hold on information and serves as a BS filter.

[madfloridian]

24. Exactly.....

But you still have to defend yourself.

[txaslftist]

25. o o o pay me!

I think Dean is a great candidate and I would blog for him for free, but if I could get paid, GREAAT!

[madfloridian]

29. "Lazy Equivalence on Journalism Ethics"

http://dangillmor.typepad.com/dan_gillmor_on_grassroots/2005/01/lazy_equivalenc.html
SNIP..."The WSJ fell into what I call the "lazy equivalence" trap in this story today about two bloggers who got paid as consultants by the Dean presidential campaign. The article seeks to connect these payments with the vastly more serious Armstrong Williams payola scandal, in which the Bush administration paid the right-wing commentator more than $240,000 to promote an education policy.

There's are differences, big ones. Such as: One of the bloggers shut down postings when he moved to Vermont to join the campaign, and the other prominently (on his homepage) disclosed that he was consulting. Williams and his backers did not disclose anything until USA Today outed his conflict of interest. And the Williams affair involved the White House itself, not merely a wannabe candidate for the office. You and I -- taxpayers -- got the bill for this sleaze.The question of overall ethics is important, however, and we all need to focus on it."

Linked from:
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/blog/People/71/

[robbedvoter]

31. Like when they attacked Moveon for the swiftboaters lies

Suddenly the issue was not lying, but 502 organizations... IOKIYAR - and not only that, we'll find a dem to blame for it. (Preferably Clinton, but if not, another)

[earth mom]

32. The one thing that stands out from this thread

is that bloggers are also being paid to sway peoples opinion. Not illegal, but something worth noting. Not unlike Chris Heinz posting here or many annoymous or not so annoymous others whose arguements are often quite persuasive I might add. It's good to be reminded that that all opinions around here and elsewhere should be taken with a grain of salt.

That said...my question is...how can I get a job doing the same? I could really use the money. O8)

[scarletwoman]

33. You are misrepresenting the essential facts here.

Kos and Jerome were NOT being paid to "sway peoples' opinion". They were paid for TECHNICAL consulting. Zephyr's own statements make clear that she (and whomever else arranged the consulting contracts -- she says "we") "HOPED" that the bloggers would also say nice things about Dean, but that was NOT what was in the contracts.

Now, take into account the fact that both Kos and Jerome were ALREADY Dean supporters BEFORE they were paid for technical consultation, and both had made their support very clear and upfront.

Kos prominently displayed a disclaimer at the top of his site stating that he had been hired by the Dean campaign. Jerome put his own blog on hiatus altogether while he worked for the Dean campaign.

THERE WAS NO HIDDEN AGENDA at work here! There was NO covert attempt to "sway opinion"!

When someone writes a political blog, their opinion is out there for all to see. Either the reader agrees or not. In the case of Kos' blog, it's a community with LOTS of different opinions expressed, including the opinions of those who did NOT support Dean, but who supported other Dem candidates instead. Everyone was/is free to argue the merits of their favored candidate. So if someone's opinion was going to be "swayed", it would have to be swayed by the merits of the individual arguments -- not because Kos was stealithy pushing a pro-Dean agenda.

You wrote: "It's good to be reminded that that all opinions around here and elsewhere should be taken with a grain of salt."

Well, of course! Why would any thinking person do otherwise? Always remember: "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts" (Senator Patrick Moynihan)

sw

[madfloridian]

34. Would you read my thread about the WSJ reporter apologizing?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1496895&mesg_id=1496895

There is additional info there.

If you can not see the difference between Armstrong Williams and Jerome being hired to set up the Dean website....then I am very sad.