I will NOT support any campaign that hires Zephyr Teachout. Anyone else?

[geek tragedy]

Who's with me? She's either a Republican mole or the dumbest political operative on the planet.

[DaveinMD]

1. who?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DaveinMD]

3. ok

I'm not as up on the blogging scene as I should be.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. So what is her problem????

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lojasmo]

24. Personal axe. the story's on the Kos. N/T

Of course that doesn't exclude stupid bitchood.

[geek tragedy]

37. A lack of loyalty or a lack of intelligence.

Can't narrow it down past that, yet.

[Rockerdem]

5. I didnt hear that part of the story. Link? nt

[kodi]

25. no, she wants a job as a pundit, and is attacking her competition

anyone who read the july 2004 new york times extended article on bloggers at the democratic convention knows wonkette's modus operendi and understands that she blogs because it gives her a chance to ply her wares in an effort to obtain gainful employment in the mainstream media as a journalist.

at the convention, when other bloggers set up group crash lodgings like they were following a Grateful Dead tour, she segregated herself with the high and mighty and blogged attack after attack at those who represented the hoi polloi.

[KittyWampus]

26. Thanks For You Post Kodi, I Forgot That.

[geek tragedy]

36. wonkette or zonkette?

Not sure which you mean.

[geek tragedy]

6. Here's her post (the one that started it all)

http://zonkette.blogspot.com/2005/01/financially-interested-blogging.html

Funny how the rightwingers got their hands on this so fast . . .

[GreenPoet64]

8. I don't understand why she would . . .

give the RW media fuel for the fire. I will be curious to find out where she ends up working too.

[geek tragedy]

9. I really don't care why. Either she's stupid, disloyal, or working for

the other side.

Any way you cut it, she ought to be blacklisted for this stunt.

[w13rd0]

10. It was a dumb...

..move, but considering the circumstances (both bloggers in question, one disclosed, the other shut down his blog during the campaign), it's a complete non-issue and I've not the foggiest notion why she'd do this.

[ImADeanDem]

14. I'm totally confused as to why she did this as well

Particularly because it came right on the heels of a very lovely "endorsement" of Dean for DNC Chair. (http://zephyr-teachout.mydd.com/story/2005/1/11/19942/3546)

I agree that it's a non-issue, but I'm simply befuddled as to why Zephyr would raise it now.

[Kipepeo]

49. She wants to be a pundit

She is getting media attention by shitting on Kos, a blogger the mainstream media is aware of...she wasn't on their radar but she is NOW.

[sarahlee]

11. Do I smell

a book deal?

I find it total BS. There is no comparison to what Armstrong Williams did.

[Rockerdem]

16. I will hold off for a few days and let this sort out.

I dont know what to believe anymore. The timing of it could be possibly explained as her just trying to get the bad news out close to the weekend to lessen the bad impact on Dean.

[geek tragedy]

23. Except that this wasn't news. Everyone knew about this over a year

ago. The only thing "new" about it were her personal opinions/observations. Had she kept her mouth shut, we'd still be talking about Armstrong Williams.

[Rockerdem]

28. It wasnt news but it was going to be regurgitated anyway

The AW scandal guaranteed that the snoozing MSM was going to revisit everything remotely connected. Better from us first than them. Better on Friday than Tuesday. PR 101.

[geek tragedy]

35. Not it wasn't. The only thing new was ZT saying what she understood

the intentions to be. If she keeps her big, stupid mouth shut, there is no story.

There is no defense for what she did.

[moggie12]

12. Let me get this straight

Her web article was posted AFTER the Armstrong Williams story broke right? (Hers is dated Jan 10th. When I Googled on Williams, it looked like that story broke on the 7th -- is that right?)

Reading it, it looked like her intention was stab a knife in the back of Howard Dean at the very moment his DNC campaign kicked into high gear. But why would she still do that when Armstrong case was shedding a light on illegal Republican propaganda effort?

I don't get this at all. Why would she intentionally raise this at the precise moment the Williams case was causing an uproar? Didn't she realize she'd be on the Democratic/progressive shit list?

[charlie]

13. And the answer is

Who knows? It's inexplicable. She's either dumb or cynical.

She also just endorsed Dean for DNC chair. Strange lady.

[moggie12]

15. WHAT!!??

She endorsed Dean? Strange isn't the word. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Her piece looked like an out-and-out smear job.

I'm not going to bother with it. Soon she'll "going away" for a few weeks -- alcohol or drug treatment program I don't know, but one of those sounds like the only explanation for her behavior.

[GreenPoet64]

17. Whaa?? She endorsed Dean? Okay this smells

like a fish. Who does she work for now?

[geek tragedy]

21. She wanted to make a name for herself.

Either she's treacherous or a complete moron. Maybe both. Dems shouldn't be trusting either type with any kind of responsibility.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Great post. It's clearly not the same thing to

use campaign funds as to use public monies, but I think the bloggers were stupid to do this. Or the one who does Daily Kos was, since he continued to blog. I know he had a disclaimer on his site but I don't think that's enough IF he wants to be viewed as an independent journalist. Dean should have thought twice about it, too. It looks like payola, smells like payola. . .

[geek tragedy]

22. Kos doesn't want to be known as an independent journalist.

He's an activist and consultant, and always has been. He's never tried to appear impartial, independent, or neutral.

And there is no "payola" where there is full disclosure.

[scarletwoman]

34. Kos was hired as a TECHNICAL CONSULTANT.

In fact, that was his "day job" long before he was a blogger. This was NOT "payola" by any stretch of the imagination.

Nor has Kos EVER presented himself as "an independent journalist" -- he's a partisan, political ACTIVIST, and has ALWAYS been completely outfront about it.

And if prominently posting a disclaimer on one's site isn't "enough", pray tell what WOULD be?

If you're going to express an opinion, it would be nice if you would base on it actual facts. Otherwise, it's really quite meaningless.

sw

[DemBones DemBones]

50. I KNOW THAT. (WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?)

IF HE WAS A TECHNICAL CONSULTANT, WHAT TECHNICAL CONSULTING DID HE DO THAT WAS WORTH $3,000 A MONTH???

His blog was always being quoted by others, who did not include his disclaimer, and I never noticed it on his site, though I doubt I looked at his site more than twice, if that. I don't recall for sure but IF his site is like most blogs there's all sorts of crap (ads, links to other pages within the site, or to other sites, etc.) cluttering it up. I can easily imagine a disclaimer not being obvious as I tend to look for the main story and ignore everything in the corners.

You wrote:

"If you're going to express an opinion, it would be nice if you would base on it actual facts. Otherwise, it's really quite meaningless."

I DID base my opinion on actual facts. A guy writes a political blog. A candidate offers him $3,000 a month not to favor other candidates in his writing. The guy obliges, putting a (small? Is it correct to say it was small?) disclaimer on his site.

Some say the guy was not biased, but those who say this all seem to be supporters of the candidate. A neutral observer is needed, really, to read all the columns and count positive and negative references to all the candidates. My guess is that if someone does this analysis, Daily Kos will be shown to have mentioned Howard Dean favorably many more times than any other candidate, and will have made significantly fewer negative remarks about Dean.

So it still smells like payola to me.

What could he have done differently? Said "No, thanks" to Dean's money and written what he wanted to. OR put his blog on hiatus while working for Dean. OR not mentioned the campaign on his blog -- covered only the GOP, or various Senatorial and other races. OR included his disclaimer in every single post. (A pain, sure, but no one would have been surprised by the story.)

If Dennis Kucinich had done this, I'd be deeply disappointed in him. Also, I read TPM often, would be deeply disappointed if Josh Marshall had an arrangement like this.

As I said before, using taxpayer's money is certainly far worse but I don't expect much in the way of ethics from the GOP or "pundits" like Armstrong Williams. Our guys need to fight harder but remain ethical.

[geek tragedy]

53. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You need to read more carefully.

1. He included a disclaimer, and his hiring was reported in the news services. That, my friend, is complete transparency. Which means it ISN'T payola. You didn't notice it upon two visits to the site? Big stinking deal. Transparency doesn't mean that every person on the planet has to receive a notification in the mail--it just means they have to go public--which he did big time.

2. Kos and Jerome worked on Dean's internet outreach program--the mechanics of using the Internet as an activist tool. Jerome was actually doing this before ZT even joined the Dean campaign (which speaks volumes about her credibility and her claims).

3. He was not paid to avoid saying nice things about other candidates. That was never part of the deal. Read more carefully. Even ZT has conceded that there was never any such discussion. She just says that they hired these guys with that UNSPOKEN hope. Again, considering that Jerome was there BEFORE her, it kinda sounds like she's making shit up.

4. Kos was a big time Deaniac before being hired. This makes perfect sense. Political campaigns try to hire people who are already loyal. Kos couldn't possibly become any more pro-Dean by taking the $$--he was already a huge Dean backer. In any event, people who were paying attention knew about the relationship, and could filter appropriately.

5. His disclosure, as noted before, was enough. This talk about maximimum disclosure is idiotic. He was a Dean fan who took a job with the Dean campaign. Everyone who was paying attention knew that fact--they knew they were reading stuff by a Dean fan working for the Dean campaign. That's all you can reasonably ask.

6. By holding our people to an unfair, artificial, meaningless, and illusory "ethical" standard, you're helping the wingnuts. Cut it out.

[scarletwoman]

55. Your "actual facts" are not true, therefore they are not facts.

Here are the for real actual facts:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/1/15/161017/816

Regarding the suggestion that is still swirling around the blogosphere regarding the role that Markos and Jerome played on the Dean campaign: Laura Gross (no relation) is 100% correct when she says:

These guys were hired as technical consultants. Specifically, they helped the Web team pick a technology platform for the blog (Movable Type) and helped manage Internet advertising (banner ads, Google ads, etc.). They weren't paid to write content -- either for the campaign or on their own blogs. And just in case there was any ambiguity, the campaign made sure they had a notice saying "I am a paid consultant for Howard Dean" right smack on the front of their personal blogs.

As for the accusation that we had any other "internal goal": As is well known, I was the Director of Internet Communications and "Blogger in Chief" for the Dean campaign. To my knowledge, there was never any internal expectation that either Markos or Jerome would provide anything other than technical or advertising advice or services, and those were the only services they did provide.

You've already said that you only ever went to dailykos a couple times. Have you not even gone there now, to get his side of the story? Have you gone to any of the myriad other reputable political blogs and seen what they have to say about this?

On what exactly are you basing your opinion when the one "actual fact" you cite is not a fact at all?

There worst of it is, you are completely missing the big picture. This is the Mighty Wurlitzer of the right killing two birds with one stone -- taking the focus off Armstrong Williams AND sticking a shiv into the left blogosphere.

Please read this:

http://seetheforest.blogspot.com/

Fake Blogging-Ethics Crisis

The Wall Street Journal concocts a story, twisting the work of one of its reporters and garbling the statement of a Dean staffer. Then O'Reilly, Novak, Instapundit, and Hugh Hewitt pick the story up, speaking gravely about a crisis in blogging ethics, grossly misrepresenting the facts to millions of people. (The hapless, well-paid Paul Begala goes along for the ride.)

What should Democrats do in a case like this? There are various possible right answers to that question. (It is not an easy one, mostly because of our weak media presence). But the wrong thing to do is to start talking about blogger ethics. (my emphasis)

This was a fake story. (my emphasis) Rule One should be "Never take fake stories at face value".

Dean, Kos, Jerome Armstrong, bloggers in general, and the Democrats were all hurt to some degress. The William Armstrong story about the Republican misappropriation of government funds for bribery purposes was entirely forgotten. And all because of a fake story.

Hasn't this happened before? Aren't people watching for this kind of thing by now? How many more times can Lucy play her trick on the Charlie Brown Democrats?

And if you'll continue on down to the next post on this page, you will find several excellent links in the very first sentence which will take you to various reputable blogs all calling bullshit on this fake story.

sw

[scarletwoman]

57. Oh, and here's my disclosure: I have never been a Dean partisan.

I did not support Dean in the primaries, I never posted about him at all.

In fact, I have not even posted in any discussions about Dean as a candidate for DNC chair.

My concern here isn't Dean at all, my concern is to oppose the right wing propaganda machine in any way I can. When I see DUers parroting right wing talking points I'm not inclined to let it slide.

sw

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moggie12]

27. Your two academic degrees are showing

Well-argued, factual reply. The fact that this Zephyr twerp did this "on the heels of the AW story" is what does it for me. Her actions smell to high heaven.

[ashiebr]

29. They smell....

...but to me they smell of stupidity and of trying to score points in internal debates instead of keeping an eye on the bigger picture. She seems like one of those who see other Dems as "the enemy" and Repugs as just "opposition".

Whatever her motive, she must be out of her cotton-picking mind.

[geek tragedy]

38. Thanks. Too bad it got deleted.

;)

But yeah, she's a total Benedict Arnold. Other liberal bloggers are much less kind than I have been.

[Eloriel]

73. Did anyone else call her a

"stupid fucking bitch," as you have? (Curiously enough, a later post of yours WITHOUT the sexist ugliness was actually more pointed and made your point far more eloquently and meaningfully.)

I don't care how angry you are with her, how RIGHT you are to BE angry with her, etc., etc., yada yada, but that sexist shit really has no place on a progressive discussion forum and does YOUR credibility irreparable harm. In fact, it makes it impossible for me personally to see anything you post, on ANY subject ever again, with anything other than skepticism and distrust and possibly even worse.

[geek tragedy]

74. Oh please. Men get called assholes and dicks and bastards all the time.

And my MacKinnon-quoting s.o. and her even more radical coworkers routinely use the word "bitch." Just like they call men "assholes," etc.

Now, had I dropped the "c" bomb on her, I'd agree that I'd committed an offense.

But, to be fair, when "bitch" is considered off-limits by a significant percentage of women that I know, I'll join suit and banish it from my vocabulary (as a noun anyways).

[BlueManDude]

30. What's the Over/Under on Zephyr's first Fox appearance?

I say by next weekend she'll be breaking bread with the Fox News Ass Hats.

[Rockerdem]

31. I personally will wait for Dean to clear the air before making judgments

He knows the score and the players.

[BlueManDude]

32. Odd that this is revealed on the heels of the Williams payola

scandal? Whomever is responsible for the timing is a fool. As usual Dems form a circular firing squad and take the heat off of GOP scandal. The facts do not matter. The GOP has talking points they can scatter into the airwaves.

[IStriker]

33. After seeing this and the Williams thing...

just my guess that there is LOTS of this going on and probably has been. Part of the "spoils" of getting elected is distributing the "goodies" and this looks like part of the spoils of running is now giving goodies to your friends who will support you. If this turns into a bipartisan scandal, it will probably be turned over to 527's before the next election because it's not about to stop as long as there is $ to give to people who have influence to sell.

I have no idea why this person, Teachout, spoke out. Maybe wants to get ahead of the story before it's exposed or maybe wants to blacken someone's name to further herself. I'm sure there is a reason that may very well be revealed before long.

[AngryAmish]

62. Old Chicago political saying

"If you can't help your family and friends, who can you help?"

[Still_Loves_John]

39. Psh, I wouldn't

support any campaign that hired ANYONE named "Zephyr." Big tip off right there.

[oppositionmember]

40. Well this is an eye opener.

I had no idea that bloggers were whores like the rest of the media. All this time I thought they were idealists and revolutionaries using the Internet to disseminate exciting new ideas and analyses.

So much for blogging as an alternative to Time.

[geek tragedy]

41. The only whore here is Zephyr Teachout, who is not a real blogger. eom

[GreenPoet64]

42. I've been thinking . . .

I will wait to see how this plays out. Could be the sh*t is about to hit the fan for the Repugs with more secret contracts coming to light. Maybe Dems brought this blog story out now rather than later. I want more facts.

[geek tragedy]

52. I doubt ZT would be facing this shitstorm if this was part of the plan.

She has a personal axe to grind against Kos (who once told her to go to hell) and Jerome (who refused to give her a job after the primaries).

Pretty simple to me.

[Kipepeo]

51. what are you talking about??

Bloggers are not independent media, they don't even present themselves that way (unlike Fox news). They usually have a very clear opinion, whether liberal or conservative.

And Kos never hid anything, everybody knew he was a consultant for Dean. It was on his effing website for cripesake. How is this even a story?? I'm baffled.

[mahina]

43. But regarding who you support,

you make yourself irrelevant by allowing your candidate to be negatively selected for you. I don't think that's a wise method.

I didn't know Zephr Teachout, who I remember very well from the Dean campaign, was the same person as wonkette.
I always appreciated Zephyr's communications. She was levelheaded and committed. Wonkette just seemed like one out for herself without much of a care for the issues. So that's a surprise if it is so.

[sarahlee]

47. Two different people

Wonkette is a different person and IS a paid political blogger.

Zephyr worked on Dean's campaign, and now has a blog and is doing this to either sell a book we will soon learn about or to get people to notice she was blogging at all. It was a stupid thing to do.

Both parties and lots of special interest groups have paid operatives all over the Internet. Most all started being activists for the organization and then got paid so they could do it full time or at least put more hours into what they were already doing.

Used to be, these people were confined to writing letters to the editor and attending meetings. Now they operate on the net as well. Nothing new.

Williams getting paid with taxpayer money and not disclosing is a completely different kettle of fish.

[geek tragedy]

54. Anyone who trusts her has horrible judgment.

This has nothing to do with Wonkette, btw.

[Geek_Girl]

44. I'm confused is

Is Zephr Teachout, Wonkette?

[bklyncowgirl]

45. I think Zephr is Zonkette not to be confused with Wonkette.

The one who write the snarky DC gossip blog.

[Geek_Girl]

46. Thanks

for the clarification.

[sarahlee]

48. another blog on it

http://www.preemptivekarma.com/archives/2005/01/bloggers_and_jo_1.html

[Egnever]

56. I think you bumped your friggin head

I met zephyr when she was on the road in a beaten down bus working her ass off to get Howard elected. She was doing a great service to idiot Dem's probably like yourself who chose to give up an opportunity to put the shrub in his place for some poor excuse called elect ability.

How did that work out?

Zephyr is honest.

Clearly something that you and a lot of others in this thread see no place for in politics. You get what you ask for sometimes and you sure as hell got it in that asshat Kerry.

When the truth becomes a pain in your side you are backing the wrong horse IMHO.

Do what ever you want its your perogative but if you expect me to jump on your dumb ass bandwagon trying to condemn someone for telling the truth you will have to try again.

[geek tragedy]

59. Wow, that was a thoughtful post.

You rode a crappy bus, so anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Stunning logic.

Sorry, but your girlfriend is the one who intentionally handed the wingnuts this golden opportunity.

It's people like you that caused Dean to lose. ZT is a loser.

And she didn't tell the truth--what she said was highly misleading in a way that hurt progressives and helped the right wing.

But, you rode a bus with her, so that doesn't matter.

[Fleshdancer]

58. I'm still very stunned (and confused) by all of this

As an avid Dean supporter, this Zephyr thing has me very upset. I've always been a daily reader of Daily Kos and not only did he always put the "I'm a paid consultant for the Dean campaign" with every Dean related post, but he didn't always say positive things about the campaign...especially when it was obvious that Dean was becoming over handled.

Why Zephyr??? I thought I understood you. Now...well, I have no idea why you would do this.

[autorank]

60. Howard Dean (great guy) and his celeb seeking staff (leeches).

First there was Trippi, the anointed "genius" by Chris Matthews. Now there is this ridiculously named person, Treacherous Zephyr, a self-ordained smear artist posing as a cyber-Diogenes. These are the latest and lesser versions of Steph and the Clinton Mandarins.

I am of the firm belief that Howard Dean caught on because he brought hope to Democrats and many other Americans at a time when everyone was just caving in to * and company. I think Deans fund raising success and his phenomenal internet lists reflected Dean. After all, the internet was already there, already used widely...Dean's personality and message set things on fire.

This Treacherous Zephyr person just wants some attention and, yes, maybe a contract of some sort. There is no doubt that her timing was designed to get attention and the best way to do that was to get in the WSJ, etc., putting down Dean by pointing to old news that could conveniently be ginned up by CM (Corporate Media).

Trippi, Zephyr...stop riding on Howard Dean's coat tails and make a name for yourselves on your own.

BTW, Trippi, where did that $40 million go in just a few months. What a monumental disaster...

[CWebster]

61. WSJ, huh?

The same mouthpiece of the corporate class which ran the op-ed gushing over Rosenberg?

Oh, what a surprise! Dean represents a threat, while Rosenberg can be counted on.

[autorank]

64. Good point. Weasel alert!

If Rosenberg is a great technocrat, then make him #2 for technocracy.

Dean is the only choice, in my opinion; although I like Martin Frost a great deal, a real fighter.

[Vinnie From Indy]

63. It About "The Benjamins"

The ShrubCo. enterprise playbook has two plays it runs consistently one after the other in almost all situations. First, try and buy it. If that play is not successful and it is a threat, kill it.

This Zephyr person has clearly revealed her motivation. She is radioactive, in my opinion, in regard to ever being taken seriously as a progressive. She wasn't being naive, she knew exactly what was going to happen. Her explanations and shifting the blame are unbelievable.

[marcologico]

65. Frankly she did us all a great service. Sorry, no tears for Dr. Koolaid.

n/t

[scarletwoman]

66. This isn't about Dean!

This is an attack by the right on the whole progressive/lefty sphere of internet political organizing. Zephyr's incredibly heedless bid to call attention to herself gave the right wing a lovely little opening to exploit, therefore they pounced.

It was a twofer -- an attempt to discredit the leftwing blogoshpere in particular, and hopefully also the Democratic party by extension; and an opportunity for using one their favorite techniques of false equivalency in order to pull the media focus off the Armstrong Williams payola revelations.

The fact that there is absolutely NO eqvivalence between a secret payment of taxpayer's money to a so-called journalist, and use of private funds by political candidate's campaign to hire two bloggers as technical consultants, all out front in the open. The two bloggers in question immediately announced their contracts publicly, one with a permanent disclaimer prominently displyed on his front page and numerous posts reiterating the contractual relationship over the months of the campaign, and the other who closed his blog for the duration of the contract.

The Wall Street journal article which first posited this false equivalency is nothing but classic right wing distortion, and that is THE aspect of this bogus story that most merits any continued attention.

sw

[marcologico]

67. It's about Dean's dishonesty and better to get it out sooner than later.

No offense to his supporters, and I know it's tough to hear, but it's important to get it on the table before it does any more harm.

[scarletwoman]

68. Oh really? How is it "dishonest" to hire technical consultants?

And btw, I am not a Dean supporter -- what I am is a TRUTH supporter.

Ignoring the actual facts of the matter at hand and then casting aspersions based upon your ignoring of the facts is a dishonest and dishonorable method of argument.

sw

[RetroLounge]

71. Whatta Pantload - your post reeks of much BS

I won't even bother to refute as you obviously haven't read the whole thread or just can't read,

and you wouldn't hear anything but your own "dishonesty, and better to get it out sooner than later."

:eyes:

RL

[Vinnie From Indy]

75. Sphincter says what? n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

70. Everything is about Dean to Marcologico

[RetroLounge]

72. Round up the usual (Dean-Bashing) suspects.

Oh, look, here's one now...

:puke:

RL

[KoKo]

69. Swat Team against Dean in Action...n/t

[sendero]

76. One thing for sure...

... if you think that self-interested double-dealing slime-dogs are only the province of the Republican party, you are sadly mistaken.

Our party is riddled with them also, and they have to be weeded out one at a time.

[w4rma]

77. Wow. You're ignorant, geek tragedy. Do some research on Teachout.

She's a very very smart and good woman who cares about her country. Read about why she joined the Dean campaign and what she gave up to do it.

[geek tragedy]

78. Her record over the past two weeks speaks for itself.

Her career as a high profile Democratic activist is over.

She'll become a Fox News Democrat--joining people like Pat Caddell in agreeing with every Republican smear on Dems.