ABC's This Week with Howard Dean

[Larkspur]

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/005835.html

Governor Dean will be on This Week with George Stephanopoulos this Sunday, January 23. He will be answering questions about the future of the Democratic Party, the race for DNC Chair and other current events.

Yeeehaaaaw!!!!!

[Eloriel]

1. If Dean's on, I MIGHT be able to stomach Steph

But it'll still be a bit of a fight.

Thanks!! I'll definitely be watching.

[liberalnurse]

2. I am so looking forward to this show.

I think it is time for the Democrats to see how dynamic we can really be. I don't think the Democratic Party has a snowball's chance in 7734 if they don't select Dean for DNC Chair.

I'm ready to get active.

Thank goodness that Wess Clark fad is over....What a bad dream he turned out to be.

[janx]

4. Now, now...that's not completely fair. The talking heads like

to include generals as commentators on their shows, and Wes Clark happens to be one of them. From what I recall (I haven't watched cable news in a long time), he was good at it, though he'd be freer to speak his mind on NPR or Air America.

[FrenchieCat]

5. What Wes Clark fad?

and why are you dissing Clark in a "Dean will be on TeeVee" thread?

The sad part about it is that it was totally unprovoked and unrequired. What is it with you? Jell-Ous or something? Damn.

Excluding those who need to bring down one Democrat to elevate another...I will watch Howard Dean on TeeVee this week. Thank you for the information on his appearance.

[Donna Zen]

6. Great!

Dean will be getting some air time.

I'm glad to hear it, and want to be a force for good rather than a bitter spewing Democrat hater.

[CTLawGuy]

7. Wes Clark

is a good man. I believe he wants change in the party as well. So be nice...


BTW Steelers are going down!

[liberalnurse]

8. Wes Clark is an adorable fellow.....

but he was a real disappointment after the Primaries. He was on this Paula Zahn Hometown meeting segment by CNN during the campaign. He bombed badly. I really felt deflated after that. I use to hope for a Dean/Clark partnership....He just talked in circles. Too bad, he has the credentials too.

[Donna Zen]

11. Dean and Clark

Yes, that was a thought for a time. I suppose that the critique of watching Clark outwit Kerik on the Zahn show must depend on which lens you are using. Personally, I like accurate information coupled with a precise use of the language. Clark was a Kerek slayer that night from my POV and had both Paula and the audience members shaking their heads in agreement with him. Of course if that is not your style, then you opinion would obviously differ. Thinking in absolutes can cause one's mind to contract.

I'm born and raised in the 'burgh, but live in New England. I think my heart will be with my homeboys this weekend.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Sorry, but I saw that debate....

on Paula Zahn in which Wes Clark did hell of great...made Keric look like an ass.

I am concerned though....and hope that you get over your recurring nightmare....

Try NODoze....might help calm you down and not have so many Dreams about Wesley Clark.

[liberalnurse]

16. I disagree......

It was conducted near my home too. Lots of talk around town shared my views in serious discussion after it played. He did a rally and only a handful of people showed up! I went and left because he couldn't stay on any message. Others walked out too.

That said, he gave one heck of a try in the Primaries. I thought he could carry the message of the party much better but apparently, his heart wasn't in it. It happens...he is new at this and will give him a wide margin to grow ...I still like him overall as he seems kind.

[ClarkUSA]

20. Bernie Kerik is your idea of a good debater?

"I went and left because he couldn't stay on any message."

BWAHAHAHA! But Bernie is your idea of staying on message, right?

I believe you. :crazy:

[liberalnurse]

21. Clark couldn't stay on message at

the rally, and he preformed poorly at the hometown meeting in Springfield, Ohio. That is how it went down in Ohio. Kerik really impressed the locals, many Democrats who voiced worry......Clark should of cleaned up that day...He had the goods but dropped the ball. That is the assessment from the ground. I have to agree, he preformed poorly and was off message. Too bad, he just had an off day or 2...Gheeze, it happens. I've seen him be extremely articulate.....

[Donna Zen]

26. Of course there are many

people who couldn't say something positive if they were paid to. Kerik's message: 911, terror, terror, terror. Again, Paula and the audience were shaking their heads in agreement with Clark even though the bushista had obviously packed the place.

Perhaps the people "on the ground" had already made up their minds before the first word was spoken. I know people like that. They keep reliving some imagined past to sustain their bitterness. Sad really, a terrible way to live.

[DaveinMD]

40. this is why people criticize Dean

Its not Dean that's the problem. Its that his supporters feel it necessary to tear down so many other great Democrats. Wes Clark is a great Democrat who continues to do a great job espousing our values. Yet, you feel the need to attack him. Pathetic.

[elshiva]

48. As a Deaniac, I salute Clark, Kucinich, Kerry

any real Democrat. I do NOT think Wes Clark is just a fad, he is a good Democrat. Let's not hate on each other.

[DaveinMD]

52. I completely agree

I think Dean will be a great DNC Chair. Most of my friends where I live supported him for President. I'm a Clark guy. I just get tired of all the posts around here tearing down other Democrats. It drives me crazy.

[elshiva]

54. Right on Dave!

I'm a Marylander, too! Blue State Blessings!

[DaveinMD]

58. Where in Maryland

Maybe I can rope you into the campaign I'm currently working on.

[elshiva]

61. What campaign? I live in Monkton, MD.

If it's for a new Gov., I am with you all the way!

[DaveinMD]

63. I'm working on the Montgomery County Exec race

I'm trying to have a role with one of the Gov candidates.

[elshiva]

64. Who is this Gov candidate?

So far I think O'Malley's got the most chance, but I am still interested in your campaign if I can help, even if I do live in Harford County.

[DaveinMD]

68. I'm trying to work for O'Malley

I'm trying to set a meeting with one of his consultants. The primary campaign for County Exec is already starting. I'm working for Ike Leggett. The primary will be the entire race.

[janx]

75. May I quote you?

Because frankly, this sounds very funny.

[DaveinMD]

77. I don't understand?

[janx]

110. Just goofing around, Dave.

;-) I like the candidate's name!

[DaveinMD]

120. OK

Sorry.

[janx]

121. Please don't apologize. I was the one who wasn't clear.

:hi:

[elshiva]

127. If you are working for O'Malley, I'll help You.

Good luck to Leggett!

[Larkspur]

125. Gee, I never base my opinions about a candidate on a candidate's

supporters, unless those supporters are the candidates close aides who perform dirty tricks.

I base my opinion on the candidate from the candidate him/herself. That's how I based my opinion of Dean as well as Clark.

Unlike Clark, Dean worked his way up the Democratic Party. He started his career as a Democrat licking stamps for Carter's 1980 re-election campaign, then he became Dem Chair of his local Dem Committee. That propelled him to run for civilian political office in his state, culminating with the governorship. As governor he was RE-ELECTED 5 TIMES and he helped get Vermont out of a financial hole but still found ways to provide services for children and the elderly. Dean has a solid record as a Democrat and as a civilian political leader.

Clark's military background makes him ideal for Secretary of Defense, but unfortunately he has to wait 10 years after leaving the military to be eligible for that position. Clark has done nothing to show me that he has made the transition from the military political realm to the civilian one. He needs to run as a Democrat for office lower the President, win that office, perform the duties of that office, and get re-elected at least to prove that he has made the transition from military to civilian political sphere. There is a difference. Civilians are not privates to be ordered around and who can be disciplined when talking back or criticizing to their leaders.

So why does Clark and his supporters have trouble with understanding that those who object to him want proof that 1) he's a solid Democrat, and 2) he has made the transition from military to civilian political sphere by running and winning elected civilian office lower than President?

If Clark ran as an Independent, we wouldn't be knocking his Democratic credentials, which are slim at best, but I'd still knock his lack of civilian political experience.

[liberalnurse]

9. No, the Steelers are going all

the way this time.....I feel it in the air..... it will happen.

:smoke:

[FrenchieCat]

14. How does it feel....

Ruining a perfectly good thread about Howard Dean's appearance on Teevee? Was it really worth it?

[liberalnurse]

17. You don't like the Steelers?

[CTLawGuy]

22. I'm a Pats fan

and I've learned not to bet against the Pats in the playoffs.

[liberalnurse]

25. To be perfectly honest.....

The Pats have the edge.....but I'll pull for Pittsburgh....they have that Hail Mary kind of luck and they are due.....

[Sparkly]

10. Smooth

It only took two posts to turn a positive thread about Dean into another Clark-bashing fest.

By the way, as I've said many times, I think Dean will make a great DNC Chair. I hope we won't have to steer clear of every thread about his successes lest we face Clark-dissing by the second post.

[Donna Zen]

12. When all you have is a hammer

.....everything looks like a nail.

[madfloridian]

27. That was a really tasteless remark.

We as Dean supporters have had every thing Dean ever said and did shoved into our faces since Clark entered the race and the influx began here.

We have defended ourselves and we will continue to do so. I see you guys hiding your heads in the sand like ostriches. I have never said anything publicly much about Clark, but I gave an opinion last night.

I had the utter gaul and nerve to say I did not want a military man in the white house.

Now I am discriminating against everyone in the world. I was mean to Clark, mean to Clarkies....I was told I was hateful and spiteful.

Please stop being in denial about the Clintons and Little Rock and Wesley Clark. That is all I ask. Clinton did make calls against Dean in the name of Clark. That is true. Read Howard Dean's book, You Have the Power, for more.

Here are Clark's remarks from Charlie Rose...directly from the transcript.

"ROSE: Mark Fabiani I think it was one of your advisors said about you 'We created this campaign as an anti-Dean campaign and then there was no Dean'

CLARK: (laughs) There was always some truth in that because...what I mean...John Kerry would have been the perfect qualifications that everyone would have looked for. He had foreign policy experience...he had..he was an elected official and the others had the qualifications to some extent but it seemed like nobody was taking off and then suddenly Howard Dean took off. Maybe that was what accounted for so many people coming to me from inside the party and asking me to run."

[FrenchieCat]

35. Clark was not in Iowa.....

where Dean came in third...was he? So I don't quite get how it's Clark that make Howard Dean lose. Hating on Clark doesn't make Howard Dean a winner.

HOWARD DEAN LIED and called Wes Clark a Republican until 25 days before. HOWARD DEAN LIED and said that he, HOWARD DEAN was the only candidate against the war. HOWARD DEAN LIED and said that he hadn't told many in his campaign that Wes Clark would be his VP.

The more I think about it...the more I realize that HOWARD DEAN IS A LIAR. Sorry, but it's true.

But even worse.....The tasteless remark was made at top of the thread here about Clark.

and in reference to your transcript...I have the videotape...and your selectiveness on what Clark said is as bad as the GOP....

[madfloridian]

37. Clark was not in Iowa, he was in NH.

Dean was in Iowa and Clinton was making calls.

[FrenchieCat]

41. Like I said....

HOWARD DEAN LIED repeatedly...

Howard Dean was in Iowa, and Gore was making calls....and Howard Dean was kissing President Carter's bootey, and?

Guess it's ok for Howard Dean to say and do anything to get elected, Uh? Of course it is. After all, it's all about PRINCIPLES, NOT!

Just a bunch of Lies, Lies, Lies....

What will he lie about next....or what other lies has he already told?

See, I can get nasty too....I just normally try to refrain and concentrate on the good and not the bad LIES told.

[madfloridian]

43. Oh yes, you think he is a liar. Very good. You made your point.

Excellent way to go.

[FrenchieCat]

45. What would you call

Someone stating things about someone else that aren't true?

[Cheswick2.0]

91. so he registered as a Democrat...he was raising money for republicans

just prior to that.

[liberalnurse]

39. Clark was a republican until the few days

before or after he decided to run for President. That was the primary reason Democrats never trusted him. He was a new, virgin Democrat. No track record as a Democrat, not even as dog catcher and he wants the top job as the Leader of the Democratic party.


Nah......not this time was the voice of the majority.

[FrenchieCat]

44. Dean lied....and you believed him....I guess.....

WES CLARK TOLD THE TRUTH about his voting record....

and HOWARD DEAN LIED ABOUT WES CLARK.

Yet Howard Dean is to be trusted....while Clark is being dissed.

GO FIGURE! Principles ain't what they used to be....

Clark has never been registered as a Republican. During his Army service he registered to vote as an independent (as do many career military officers) in his home state of Arkansas . Clark says he voted for Republican Presidents Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan out of concern for national security during the Vietnam and Cold War years. But he says later he found Republicans to be “shrill” and “isolationist.” And so he says he voted for fellow Arkansas resident Bill Clinton and most recently for Al Gore, both Democrats. Clark changed his voter registration to Democrat only after retiring from the Army in 2000 and declaring himself a candidate for the party’s nomination late in September, 2003.
http://www.factcheck.org/article97.html

HOWARD DEAN LIED!

[PassingFair]

59. When, exactly, did Clark become a member of the

Democratic Party?

[FrenchieCat]

62. He was born a Democrat....

as his father before him was.

Clark was born in Chicago, Illinois, on December 23, 1944. His father, Benjamin Kanne, was a Democratic politician, World War I veteran, and lawyer who died in 1948 when Wes was five years old (some sources say four years old). His father also was a Reform Jew (Clark's middle name, Kanne, refers to his father's lineage as a Kohen, a descendant of the ancient Jewish priests).1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

The real point is that Clark was NEVER A REPUBLICAN. That's the lie!

Any other questions?

[liberalnurse]

65. Oh now, you are not that naive are you?

I thought you followed his campaign. He was at several republican fundraisers and endorsements a year before he decided to run. I think he even donated blood for the cause.

[FrenchieCat]

69. Can you name the "Several" fundraisers....?

Why the exaggerations and lies required to inpune someone.

Did Howard Dean lie when he said "Clark was a Republican until 25 days ago" over and over again during the primaries?

I say "yes"...he did.

What say you?

[Cheswick2.0]

94. oh come on, it's common knowledge

there are clips of his speeches at at least one fundraiser and you can search the internet just as well as any one else. They aren't hard to find. Everyone has seen them.

[PassingFair]

67. No, just the original question which remains unanswered:

At what date did he REGISTER as a DEMOCRAT? When did he become a member of the party?

[FrenchieCat]

70. Why do you care?

You obviously "hate" his guts anyway.

The point is that he was never a Republican. He was an Independent and then became a Democrat.

THE LIE WAS "WES CLARK WAS A REPUBLICAN UNTIL 25 DAYS AGO".

That's a lie.

[PassingFair]

72. Why do you think I "hate" his guts?

I asked a simple question. I am not a part of the "he was a republican" argument issue.

[FrenchieCat]

89. sorry...

mistaken identity.

[TLM]

76. Voted for Reagan and said he was a great leader...

Spoke at republican fundraiser in 2001.

Didn't register as a dem until AFTER deciding to run as a dem.

Sticking your head in the sand will not make this fact go away.



http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0919-01.htm

General Clark said that he would have advised members of Congress to support the authorization of war but that he thought it should have had a provision requiring President Bush to return to Congress before actually invading. Democrats sought that provision without success.

"At the time, I probably would have voted for it, but I think that's too simple a question," General Clark said.

A moment later, he said: "I don't know if I would have or not. I've said it both ways because when you get into this, what happens is you have to put yourself in a position — on balance, I probably would have voted for it."

[Cheswick2.0]

93. He was a republican in actions, which is what Dean meant

as do I when I say the same thing.

Clark came into the race to stop Dean, backing from some people in the party made him look like a credible candidate and set him up to go into the private sector and make a bundle. That was his pay off. He made his share of nasty remarks during the primary and after. Don't pretend he is spotless.

[TLM]

74. Speaking of lies....

www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/oct2003/nf2003101_0874_db038.htm

"A Clark campaign spokesman at first told BusinessWeek that the former general had in fact updated his voter registration to reflect his newfound status as a Democrat. But a call to the Pulaski County Voter Registrar indicated otherwise. When asked to explain the discrepancy, campaign consultant Mark Fabiani says Clark hadn't yet had time to register as a Democrat."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.politicsus.com/front%20page%20archive/091803.html

Clark told CNN's Judy Woodruff earlier this month that he had decided to register as a Democrat. Left unsaid and unknown at this point is exactly when and why he decided to become a Democrat.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030922-105420-9821r.htm

Mr. Clark also confused some supporters over the depth of his Democratic credentials. After voting for Republicans Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan for president, Mr. Clark said he became a Democrat listening to Mr. Clinton's early presidential campaign speeches. Then, it was revealed, he spoke at a Republican Party fund-raiser in 2001 and was registered as an independent.
Telephone messages left with Mr. Clark's campaign office in Arkansas were not returned.

[Cheswick2.0]

92. How Did Dean lie...registering as a democrat AFTER you have decided to

run for the Democratic party nomination for President, hardly proves you are anything more than a democrat in name. Clark was speaking at Republican fund raisers just before registering as a democrat. He needs to build up a track record. He should run for Governor of Arkansas. He' have a good chance at winning with Clinton's help.

[Eloriel]

113. No, Dean's not the liar here

It's amusing to see people not recognize the truth about Wes Clark but instead insist that the truth are actually lies about him.

HOWARD DEAN LIED and called Wes Clark a Republican until 25 days before.

What, was it 26 days? As bad as our Dem leaders are, I don't see many of them speaking at Bush fundraisers. I don't see many of them admitting they voted for Bush for President in 2000. I don't see many of them whose voter registration isn't even Dem.

HOWARD DEAN LIED and said that he, HOWARD DEAN was the only candidate against the war.

He WAS the only candidate of substance, the only viable candidate, against the war. Kucinich? Never had a chance, despite some of the whines here, and was never in any way mainstream and wasn't going to be.

HOWARD DEAN LIED and said that he hadn't told many in his campaign that Wes Clark would be his VP.

Even Clark ended up admitting that he hadn't officially or literally been offered the position. And if I were you, I wouldn't be trotting that little episode out because that was anything but Clark's finest moment. In fact, it shows him as the "not ready for prime time" candidate he was. First, I'm assuming some loose and unofficial discussions of that type DID happen. Those are private conversations, and the fact that he publicized them at all was a horrid breach of etiquette. That they were denied and kept at it only makes it worse, by a factor of about 100. Finally, as I said, he had to eat crow on the subject because he had either misunderstood the nature of those talks or was too self-aggrandizing to be discreet -- in any case, BIG political faux pas all the way around. I was embarrassed for him.

You'd do better to leave all those memories in the past, instead of reminding people about them.

[janx]

119. About the VP matter--it may not have been Clark himself

who leaked the info. about those conversations, but it certainly was a major faux pas and a mistake, either on his part or on the part of his campaign.

[DemOperative]

18. Pot, meet kettle

most Deanies at DU don't spend time in a secret nexus despising all things Dean on DU. At least some of the Deanies are up front about their dislike for General Clark. Who is a good man but seriously, "K" street? C'mon!!! That's not where many progressives will change the party.

[janx]

19. What secret nexus?

?

[Sparkly]

24. ??

I've never said a bad word about Dean, ever.

[Larkspur]

15. Wes who?

:shrug: :evilgrin:

[Donna Zen]

23. I'll be watching Dean

and while I am closely monitoring the anti-Clark attitude, I won't let it curtail the letters I am writing on his behalf. I thought that the DNC chair was what Dean wanted. I thought that he would be representing all Democrats, especially progressives if given that chance. Prehaps many of Deans supporters do not see that position from that perspective and would rather have a vendetta laced with a dollop of grudge.

[madfloridian]

28. Stop talking about the bad Dean supporters. Old meme, tired one.

It is worn out.

[Donna Zen]

30. Sorry

I voiced an opinion, and looking back on my post, I noticed I used the word "many" which I should correct to say "few." I never meant you.

I mean Dean supporters do expect that he will be representing all registered Democrats. Correct? And treat all Democrats with equal respect?

[madfloridian]

32. Very clever....use us against him. Good thought. That'll work.

That will really shut us up.

[Donna Zen]

42. I wish I knew

what you are talking about. But I confess I can't understand your point. I would never want anyone to as you say "shut up." And I do think the DNC chair should by definition represent all Democrats. I've already excluded you from my previous post as one who would wish to be in any vindictive.

Oh well_ it is sometimes difficult to convey the tone of a message in a post. Do you ever have that problem? I know I do, and I am sincerely sorry if you took me to mean that you were anti-various Democrats.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Wow....Are there "Bad" Dean supporters at DU?

Or are Clarkies at fault here?.....to dare read a Dean thread about a television appearance....and defend Wes Clark who was attacked out of the blue.

[madfloridian]

33. I did not attack him, but I sure jumped in. You know why?

Because I am sick to death of being told that we are not liked. Bottom line, everyone is now saying ok I like Dean now for chair, it's just his supporters I can't stand.

I have stayed decent on this, but I am tired.

[liberalnurse]

34. Exactly, Dean is still a leading Democratic

contender and we all know that Clark has moved on.....Clark is now a significant part of history, Nostalgia,....no big deal. Whats the fuss about? Clark has peaked....he gave it his best. I respect him for his efforts but its over.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Dean ain't got the job YET....

If I were you, I wouldn't be so smug. It's bad Kharma...and bad Kharma is a biatch!

[madfloridian]

38. I would rather he not get it.

Ok by me....I can see the future of the party anyway. I think we all can.

Hate solves nothing.

[liberalnurse]

46. You should take your own advice.

And so, what is Clark running for? ...Nothing...zip, zero nada....
See, he's history, yesterday's news. It has been a year since he say any action about him......

What has Clark done in the past 12 months for the Democratic Party he recently joined????? Fund raising/ Even I have done that.....

[Sparkly]

47. Let me suggest then

that you stop spending so much attention on him, and let the threads about Dean remain threads about Dean. Since you see Clark as irrelevent, and no threat to you, why post about him constantly? I believe it was your post (the second one in this thread) that started this again.

Can we leave the threads about Clark about Clark, and not bring Dean into them; and can we leave the threads about Dean about Dean, and not bring Clark into them? Is that okay with you?

[liberalnurse]

50. Sure....

I agree that Clark is totally insignificant at this point...a moot issue. Folks just kept asking and I answered the questions.

You make a marvelous point. Thank you.

[FrenchieCat]

53. What has Howard Dean done?

cause whatever it is, Clark has done it too.

Howard Dean ain't THAT special....

Wes Clark campaigned to help many elected dems get into office....and appeared as a surrogate for John Kerry many times on television, live appearances and radio.

But best of all, Wes Clark called out George Bush on nearly everything that George Bush did.

General Wesley K. Clark Calls For An Independent Investigation Into Leak of CIA Agent's Identity

Clark Blasts Bush Administration for Continuing Blame Game

Clark Questions War-Related Windfall for Bush Backers; Calls for More Transparency

Clark Calls on Bush to Help Unemployed Before Giving Big Tax Breaks to Business

General Wesley Clark responds to President Bush's Comments on a Woman's Right to Choose

General Wesley Clark responds to President Bush's 'Mission Accomplished' Remarks

General Clark Calls for Independent Inquiry into Growing List of Bush Administration Intelligence Failures

General Clark says that George Bush is Losing the War on Terror

General Wesley K. Clark Calls on President Bush to Start Honoring Soldiers who Died in Iraq

Clark: "Bush Must Do More for Soldiers. Words Are Not Enough"

It's High Time We Do More to Find Al Qaeda

General Wesley Clark Condemns Bush Administration's Refusal to Enforce Laws Protecting Human Health and the Purity of American Fish, Waterfowl and Wildlife

Clark Comments on Rumsfeld Admission that the Bush Administration Has No Answers to the Growing Crisis in Iraq

Clark On Bush's Latest Special Interest Giveaway

General Wesley Clark Assails Bush on Record Troop Mobilization

Wes Clark Blasts Bush For Rewriting Rationale For War

Clark Comments on Latest Misguided Bush Efforts to Isolate U.S., Reward Halliburton and Make U.S. Less Secure

[liberalnurse]

57. He is the Founder of

Democracy for America. Included in this national grassroots organization is the "Dean Dozen", Democratic candidates who seek election for political office. Howard Dean's DFA, facilitated, endorsed and energized their campaign.

http://democracyforamerica.com/dd_returns.php

At the local and state level, Democracy for America and Gov. Howard Dean have reason to celebrate this year's election results. Many DFA-endorsed Dean Dozen and DFA-supported candidates won elections at all levels of government, throughout the country.

• One of the two new Democratic United States senators was a "Dean Dozen" candidate--Barack Obama (D-Ill.). Obama and the other new Democratic senator, Ken Salazar (D-Colo.), received contributions from DFA.

• One "Dean Dozen" candidate won her race for Congress, Allyson Schwartz (D-PA) and DFA contributed to five of the fourteen incoming freshman Democratic Members of Congress.

• Some of the notable non-federal success stories include:

• Both of the new Democratic governors are "Dean Dozen" candidates: John Lynch (D-NH) and Brian Schweitzer (D-Mont.)

• Two "Dean Dozen" candidates won their mayoral race: Peter Corroon was elected as mayor of Salt Lake County, Utah and Tom Potter was elected as mayor of Portland, Ore.

• Democracy for America contributed more than $600,000 to 634 candidates for non-federal office. 319 of those candidates won--a 50% win-loss record.

• "Dean Dozen" candidates were elected to state legislatures in 16 states. Candidates for legislature who received Democracy for America contributions, but were not part of the "Dean Dozen," were elected in an additional 12 states.


More if you visit the posted link.

Now relax, and let go of this, stop asking questions which result in your embarassment. Save yourself.

[FrenchieCat]

60. And....

Is he the only one who supports candidates who run for office? I don't think so.

I admire what Howard Dean and his supporters have done in reference to raising money and assisting other pols. I'm not going to take that away from him........but he ain't the only one...and it certainly doesn't give his supporters a license to walk around thinking that Howard Dean is better than everybody...and to diss other Democrats.

Howard Dean is the same as most politicians in that he lies ...yet his supporters walk around with their nose up in the air acting like they are sooooo special too.

[madfloridian]

66. Our noses in the air? Thinking we are special? Oh, please.

SNIP..."but he ain't the only one...and it certainly doesn't give his supporters a license to walk around thinking that Howard Dean is better than everybody...and to diss other Democrats.

Howard Dean is the same as most politicians in that he lies ...yet his supporters walk around with their nose up in the air acting like they are sooooo special too....."

[FrenchieCat]

71. At least now....

Your "Dean" thread will have had a lot of posts......

Should be proud of that....cause it ain't everyday.

[madfloridian]

83. It IS planned, isn't it.

QUOTE:Your "Dean" thread will have had a lot of posts......
Should be proud of that....cause it ain't everyday...."

This is not my Dean thread. I do know that there is a concerted effort to not acknowledge good posts about Dean....you sort of confirmed it. Perhaps unintentionally. But you did confirm.

Hey, I don't mind. I post about Dean to get it noticed by some of the media who lurk here. It often gets picked up right away, too.
I don't post to get replies.

Frenchie, your anger toward us is too much.

[FrenchieCat]

85. Anger over the slander that I read here and everywhere.....

I don't give a fudge about Dean threads.....I read them when I feel like it. If they sink, it ain't nothing I'm doing...so I don't quite see the connection.

What I did see is someone maligning Clark as the 2nd post in a Dean thread. Why?

What I see is jealousy and competition where there need not be any.

What I see are poster after poster (most are Dean supporters) having nasty things to say about Wes Clark that aren't true.

I am a rabid Clark supporter who see rabid Dean supporters maligning someone that I greatly admire.

Today was the day that I was pushed beyond my limit and ended up calling Howard Dean a liar. But I will tell you that I don't care if he is or not.....because Clark is no longer running against Howard Dean and neither am I.

If you actually examine the reasonably recent threads and posts where there are any disagreements between Clark and Dean supporters......9 out of 10, it's a Dean supporter who brings with him/her the negativity about Clark that starts it. The problem that Dean supporters have is that Clark supporters will not be cowed....hence long threads. The problem is that Deanies don't like the fact that Wes Clark is still being discussed. It's very clear...in fact, it's transparent.

In fact, I DARE YOU to find a thread where a Clarkie said something nasty first about Dean and started the negative put downs within any thread.

Good luck!

[madfloridian]

86. You did not answer my question about the organized ignoring.

Was just wondering.

[FrenchieCat]

87. Nothing to answer.....Frankly..... --edited repeat my own request

There is no "conspiracy" that I am aware of. Why would you think there would be? You don't see me hesitating in making this thread any longer, do you?

I find it ironic though...that you have yet to produce the famous threads where Clarkies just butt in and start maligning Dean. I'm kind of waiting for you to show me those.....

You seem to be convinced that this has occurred, I would really like a couple of examples....at least.

I'm on the Westcoast....so I have time.

[CTLawGuy]

104. There are supporters of EVERY candidate

who bash other candidates. Especially towards Dean a year and a half ago, when this board was FULL of anti-Dean diatribes.

Dean people are not alone in this.

I think clark is a good person. However I supported Dean because Dean has at least SOME experience in elective office. He's worked with a legislature, he knows how to get things done in a responsible way.

[janx]

105. Yes, there are.

But I'll tell you one thing. When it gets to the point at which a "supporter" of a person who isn't even running for office tries to "out" a member of the media (and getting it WRONG) publicly on this board, it has gone TOO FAR.

Skinner has one heck of a lot more patience than I would have had in that situation.

I would have banned the person on the spot without even blinking.

Disgusting. Truly disgusting.

[CTLawGuy]

114. huh, I missed what you are referring to , Janx?

which member of the media got "outed"? and is it "outed" in the common sense?

[janx]

116. It had nothing to do with sexuality or sexual orientation.It had to do

with this person's identity and job.

[janx]

118. This is one of the weirdest posts I've come across.

:shrug: I've always seen threads about Dean with many posts.

[madfloridian]

123. Double posted....did not show at first.

selfdeleted.

[madfloridian]

124. I am still puzzled greatly by your post.

The less I understand.

Are we having a contest to see who gets the most responses to posts? I was not aware of that ever being a motivation of mine. When did it begin to be a factor?

"Your "Dean" thread will have had a lot of posts......

Should be proud of that....cause it ain't everyday"

I really am puzzled on this one, could you help me out here? Should I not post about Dean anymore? Or just certain times or events.

I see from another forum that you guys no longer support Dean for chair because of me and other Dean supporters? Is this really true?
I am hearing rumors now of other candidates entering the race. So maybe you will have more options.

What a sad condition our party is in if this is an indication....the "I don't like you so I won't support your candidate" thing is really odd.

[Cheswick2.0]

96. What I see there in your post....... lots of TALK

What Dean has done.. lots of ACTION. Dean has started an organization which is helping democrats all over the country organize and get elected to office.
Go to our website and check it out. See how many candidates we funded and campaigned for. Look at how many meetings are taking place around the country every month and how many people have joined, run for county chair positions, school board, and state Rep. Tens of thousands of democrats have been mobilized on a grassroots level. Do you think they are doing this so that some guy who thinks he deserves to start at the TOP with no experience in politics can jump in and use that energy for his personal ambition?
Clark needs to pay his dues in some more substantial way than speaking to talking heads and flying around the world to world terrorism conferences. At this point he is qualified to be terrorism Czar, that's about it.
He may be everything you think he is, but he has no civilian record to be judged by and the citizens and elected officials of this country are not in the military and can not be ordered about.

WWW.democracyforamerica.com

[Zensea]

51. Kharma works a lot of ways

I always figure it's not a good idea to judge people's kharma unless you know them real well.
Two reasons.
One, I've got enough kharma of my own.
Two, Jesus had a thing or two to say about kharma also, something like Judge not lest you be judged & he who is without sin throw the first stone.

[FrenchieCat]

55. What-E-ver.....

I didn't start the diss...so my Kharma is excellent for the time being. But thanks for the concern.

[Zensea]

56. Sometimes people know more

than they say.

[janx]

108. This is true. n/t

[TLM]

78. Heh interesting... discussing Kharma when supporting

a man who supported the SOA, bombing civilians, and who is a war profiteer...

[FrenchieCat]

29. you know....Wes Clark....

The one that you keep denegrating cause Dean is the emperor...and everyone else smells like shit....

The one not afraid to stand next to Michael Moore.

[Cheswick2.0]

98. MM needs to stick to what he does well

picking candidates to support isn't one of those things. Ralph Nader/Wesley Clark. Moore seems to have a thing for intentional spoilers.

[Larkspur]

103. Dean is not my emperor. He knows how to lead without demanding

fealty, like they do in the military.

Regarding Michale Moore, I'm no fan of his and he's farther to the Left than I am. I'm a moderate who leans Left.

Oh, and you forgot George McGovern, the man the DLC and Clintonistas, who backed Clark's run, denegrate to this day.

[bklyncowgirl]

99. Can we please stop fighting over the damn primaries.

In case you people haven't noticed, the Democrats have lost the presidency and the Congress and we're about to see more right wing justices appointed to the Supreme Court.

Dean and Clark both happen to be on the same side although you wouldn't know it from reading this thread. The last I heard both opposed the right wing takeover of our government. Both have been valuable spokesmen for progressive values. Both of these patriotic gentlemen put aside their differences, ambitions and grievances over the primaries to give whole hearted support to John Kerry.

This thread started because some Dean supporter express annoyance that Clark was getting too much air time. I wish that he was getting more air time. I want to hear more of Clark, and Dean and frankly any Democrat who can speak clearly and with authority and will not back down in the face of criticism, ridicule and the sledgehammer tactics of the neocons.

Forming up the circular firing squad over who said what about whom over a year ago--or who's favorite politician is more of a true progressive than the other guy is not only counterproductive, it not only does a disservice to the politicians you support, it's exactly what the right wing wants us to do.

[Starlight]

3. Thanks. I scheduled it on tivo. n/t

[marcologico]

49. Was he the guy with the sausages or the motel chain? n/t

[JoseRizal]

73. If Clark is so insignificant and a nobody for the Dem party

why keep slamming the man? that really baffles me, look I understand as a Dean supporters you wanted Dr.Dean to win the nomination and eventually the presidency? but like Gen.Clark Dr.Dean did not win. Partly, because the nation did not need a Dr. to fight the terrorist they wanted a leader and Gen.Clark would have been that one, but because of his late entry into the primary and the question about his authenticity as a Dem took a hit on the Gen. Which pretty much killed it for him, we ended up with the next best thing Sen.John Kerry.

Yes the Sen.Kerry did not win but atleast he was close to beating a sitting war time president. Come to think about it Dr.Dean might have done better in terms of fighting against the smear campaign but who really knows, at least he also tried his best but failed way short of the nomination. At least, on Gen.Clark's part he managed to win Oklahoma,place a couple of seconds to Kerry even after he was marginalized in the primary for being a so called faux democrat.

Not bad for a faux Democrat eh?

[Capn Sunshine]

79. Not bad at all

The elephant in Gen. Clarks living room is that he whored himself out to the Clinton people to stop Dean, and THAT is why so many at DU think very little of him.

I think he's a great guy with a liberal viewpoint, but there's that elephant in his living room, and whatever you do, don't open that closet marked "School of the Americas".

Yet he obviously moves some folks, so I'm not going to diss them for their zeal.

It's just that I wonder about their gullibility.

[madfloridian]

84. Capn, check out this post.

#71

I had heard there was planned ignoring here, and see if you think this confirms it. Interesting.

[FrenchieCat]

88. so sad...

and humiliating for you all I would imagine to actually believe that there is a "Planned Ignore" thing going on. Howard Dean is just not a threat to Clarkies...so why have covert plans? Hell, most Clark supporters favor Dean as Chair...(of course some Deanies will say it's to get Dean out of the way for '08).

So you see, Deaniacs win no matter what:
If you ignore the Dean Threads, it's a conspiracy.
If you go into Dean threads, you can catch his supporters attacking other good Democrats.
If you respond to those attacks, then you are a troublemaker.
If you don't respond to those attacks, then lies are spread on the board.
If you support Dean for Chair....it's only to get him out of the way.
If you don't support Dean for Chair.....you are wrong

So Rovian!
I take my hats off to you on this circular no win situation for all except those very special Deniacs!
--------------
Me, I just think that some (not many...but enough) prolific posters hold a grudge against Wes Clark....because they want to blame him for Howard Dean losing the primaries....but of course, Clark was not in Iowa, and Dean actually beat Clark in New Hampshire.

In addition, Howard Dean called Clark a Republican (a lie), and kept saying he was the only candidate against the war (another lie)...when Dean and Clark's position on the Iraq war were probably the closest...both supported a Resolution, but neither was satisfied with the one that ended up passing. Both understood that Saddam was not an iminent threat.

Some Dean Supporters want to insinuate that Clinton made calls for Clark, when Gore actually endorsed Dean and said that we should all "fall in line" in what, December?(but that's ok...cause it's Dean). I guess that if Clinton would have actual endorsed Clark, some a y'all would have just gone off the cliff suffering heart attacks...although, again, Gore endorsed Dean (double standards anyone?). Then it was OK for Howard Dean to hunt President Carter down to try to get an endorsement ....but somehow, Clark was the real cause of Dean's downfall. Dean was beaten by Kerry and Edwards in Iowa...but it's really Clark's fault. Dean insisted in attending a MLK celebration and ended up causing a rukus, but it was really Clark's fault. Or is there equal opportunity grudge holding against all other opponent that ran against Howard Dean in Deaniac land?

Then there are some who don't like the fact that Clark still gets attention on the boards. Some have even gone as far as calling him history, moot, etc. That attitude has got to go. It's not even rational nor healthy.

In the end neither Dean nor Clark won the primaries...so Those Deanies just have to get over it. Funny cause Clarkies don't blame Kerry, Edwards, Dean or anyone else for us losing. There may have been other forces at work to make sure that Clark lost.....but it wasn't the Democratic candidates.
--------------
PS. Still waiting for the examples of Clark supporters coming into threads to bash Dean...and doing it first.

[TLM]

80. Here let me explain it....

"If Clark is so insignificant and a nobody for the Dem party
why keep slamming the man? "

Because his supporters keep pushing the guy in our faces like he's the second f-ing coming. Despite the fact that most of us have researched Clark and know he's a two faced fraud and war profiteer, they insist we just don;t know the "real" Clark.

And when we still don't fall to our knees and worship at the alter of Jesus Clark, his supporters do crap like calling us socialist and communists.



Still baffled?

[FrenchieCat]

81. just Jell-ous n/t

[JoseRizal]

82. We dont keep on putting Clark in ur face ...or jammed it to ur throat

either, Man the bunch of u folks are just something to behold. So what if we keep on praising the man whom we think is better than Dr.Dean to become Pres. The way i see is that u and some of ur ilks are just miffed that after all the bullshit uve posted that are supposedly facts, we are still supporting a mass murderer,SOA,war profiteering guy.

Man u sure like to lump on Gen.Clark himself like that, ahh if and that is only an if one of ur chosen ones win and God forbid we happen to go to war pls. dont hesitate to send ur peace loving peaceniks ultra left wing ,socialist scumbags to fight amm. to make out with our enemies ok.

Noticed how most Clarkies here have never denigrate or have tried to impune Dr.Deans character,integrity and importantly his choice of a career. Pls. Dr.Dean is no sain either but I know this Dr.Dean is an honorable man wiht very good intentions and good heart who happens to have a very rabid socialist supporters.

Most here at DU are objective,fair minded,logical non judgemental people. So when some of u socialist peeps keep on harping that most of the DUers dont like Gen.Clark would be just a slander against the DU itself. Please provide me an evidence that lend credence to ur claim ok? thanks in advance. Furthermore, Gen.Clark if he ever choose to run again does not need the support of socialist/communist people on his side. After all were trying to preserve and maintain the democratic principle of this country, not to make it a communist empire.

[Eloriel]

126. Does that response, made not for the first time, represent your true

maturity level? Should I try to guess your age?

[Sparkly]

90. Yes

Nobody jammed him in your face; someone else introduced him into this discussion in the second post.

I have suggested people stop introducing Clark into Dean threads and Dean into Clark threads, and I'm also suggesting that it's unproductive at best to keep rehashing the same tired arguments.

[Larkspur]

95. Unitl Clark changes and decides to run for office other than Prez as a Dem

win that office, execute the duties of that office well, and win re-election, Clark will never have my support. That's my "tired argument" and it is a VALID agrument.

[Sparkly]

97. And that has what to do with the topic of this thread?

You're entitled to your opinion, we've all heard it, and many of us disagree with it. My suggestion is that it serves no purpose for people to go through the familiar litany of what they hate about Clark in every thread that includes his name, and certainly not in threads that began having nothing to do with him.

[Cheswick2.0]

100. I know how hard you Clarkies have been working at ignoring Dean threads

I am curious as to why you fell off the wagon on this one.
I have nothing in particular against Clark, I just think talk is cheap and he needs to prove himself beyond the military and military consulting. I know some of you are sincerely supporting Dean for Chair and that some of you are doing it to keep him out of the 2008 race. As Frenchi says what-E-ver! (that's so cute)
I also think it it lunatic to be talking about who is running in 2008. So why get all upset and jump in on a thread that isn't even about Clark just because one person made a remark? Why do that and then question why people are talking about Clark on this thread? You are talking about Clark on this thread. If some one else should not be then surely you should not be.

I'm telling you...get the guy to run for governor of Arkansas and thenn he can run for president in 2012.

[Sparkly]

101. See post #2

A thread will instantly devolve into what this one has become with that kind of goading. I think we've all learned that by now.

[Larkspur]

102. I was responding to the post. I didn't start the clark critique on this

thread.

[Quixote1818]

106. Humm, so why did Wes Clark just blow everyone away in this poll

Ed Schultz Poll on Air America?
http://www.bigeddieradio.com/index.html

Seems you have the minority view of Clark because Nationally Progressives love him enough for him to win huge in a National Progressive Radio Poll. Perhaps you should think about why you and about two other people on DU are the only people who think the way you do.

[madfloridian]

107. Only 4 names on there.

Hillary Clinton
Barbara Boxer
Wes Clark
John Edwards

Why not Kerry? Why not Dean?

[Quixote1818]

109. I completely agree but I was making a point to the other poster

That Clark is not a has been in the Democratic Party who no one trusts. He is alive and well enough to win that poll by a large margin.

[janx]

111. It'll be VERY interesting to see what Dean has to say about

the DNC and the future of the Dem party. Without a clear strategy, it is completely pointless to speculate about presidential races, especially potential ones.

That's what's so hilarious about this thread. People always seem to want to speculate and daydream about a presidential run in 2008, but unless the Dem party and others who want to clean this place up get organized and busy, nobody is going to win anything.

[moggie12]

115. Excellent comment -- speculation isn't going to help

Speculating about '08 is kind of fun, but these threads keep degenerating into a rehash of the '03 primaries without the various side reaching any kind of resolution to their differences. I'd like to concentrate on more immediate concerns: Like helping Barbara Boxer any way we can and working towards reclaiming the House and Senate in '06.

[janx]

117. DUers are arguing about people who aren't even running

for office! It's ridiculous!

[Individualist]

112. Thanks Larkspur

I look forward to seeing and hearing Dr. Dean.

[Capn Sunshine]

122. Thanks for posting this Larkspur

Pre emption as a way of life will not change under President Clark I guess. Now back to the bat-cave, rob.