I have been sending Liberal Christian stuff to my Conservative Christian

[Quixote1818]

friends and low and behold they actually are responding to it. I am serious! Their is a guy in California who I write to and he writes to me and we talk politics but respect one another. Well, I sent him some stuff about that new book that's coming out by Jim Wallis and he LOVED it!!! My Boss and I would go round and round about Bush. He is very deeply Christian. In the past if I sent him something he would argue and argue and argue with me but not this time. We live in different towns because I am a rep for a territory so we e-mail back and fourth. So I sent him the same stuff I sent my Friend in California expecting him to come back with a long letter about how it was full of shit and believe it or not he LIKED IT!

What I am learning is that Christians love Jesus and it does not matter what it is about Jesus they get as long as it's about Jesus. So it breaks down a barrier we always had. They just think it's cool that I am sending them Christian Stuff. And they are both going to go out and get the book!

I am beginning to think that this is a way to Finally reach a lot of Christian Conservatives. I think this new book is going to be great for the liberal cause! I am excited about it.

The title works because it nails both the left and the right but when you get inside I predict it will hit the Right a lot harder than the left. So the title does not sound like it's coming from a liberal it sounds like it's coming from just a middle of the road kind of person. I predict those of us on the left could learn a lot from it as well.

[elshiva]

1. Good job!

Jesus is the Friend of conservatives and liberals. If you like reading about the Lover of Creation, you will read almost anything.
I'm a very liberal person, yet I subscribe to the Fatima Crusader...

[Cheswick2.0]

2. that sounds great....well done

!

[Sydnie]

3. Was listening to Al Frankens show today briefly

and I heard some one ( a preacher, I think) talk about having cut all the references to the treatment of the poor out of the bible. He then would present that cut up bible to people and get them to understand that the majority of the theology was in support of helping and protecting the poor.

I heard little of the show, but he did say that people would respond that they hadn't realized that they could be people of faith AND care about social needs of society. How sad is that?

I sure would be worth the price of a bible to have that exhibit huh?

[leesa]

8. That was Wallis.

[Quixote1818]

9. Yes, I heard that show to and thats where I got the idea to contact

my friends.

[Pirate Smile]

4. That is great news. I have seen Jim Wallis on a few shows and heard

him on AAR.

I think it is important that instead of abandoning religious voters, we fight back against the very un-Christ-like things that the RW and Republicans promote. Republicans are doing so many things that go against the teachings of Jesus.

[seabeyond]

5. helping htem to see they have been hood winked

thinking this is a christian man following the path of lite. they are going to be pissed when they realize how they have been led down the wrong path. they have been battling it. now bush is elected a second time and it is going to become clear. i always talk to my fundies in christian terms, jesus's words

[Pirate Smile]

6. I know Wallis met with the House Democrats in the past couple of weeks.

Whoever wins DNC Chair, they need to have a big push in this area.

Pick someone credible in this area to head Religious Outreach and work with the grassroots and the state/local parties to make some inroads. A good PR campaign is needed also.

[Quixote1818]

10. I agree 1000000000%. Besides Liberals Love what Jesus taught

so everyone wins!

[Pirate Smile]

12. Exactly. That is why this Jesus hijacking by the RW has seemed so

bizarre. The Republicans are ignoring most of what Jesus talked about and the majority of their policies conflict with true Christian values yet they wrap themselves in it.:crazy:

[Quixote1818]

20. As Wallis said: The Republicans only talk about two Religious issues

Gay Marriage and Abortion but deep down people have a thirst for real substance and kindness.

[DemBones DemBones]

26. So true! I have never understood how serious Christians can

go along with today's GOP.

[leesa]

7. I bought the new Jim Wallis book, which I am going to read first and then

offer to my office-mate, who is a RW Fundie Christian. We get along well and hopefully he will read it and share it with his church members.

I also sent it to my recovering RW Fundie brother. I hope after he reads it he will share it with his hardcore Fundie friends, churchmembers and with my other hardcore RW Fundie brothers.

Wallis is a good guy.

[Pirate Smile]

13. What started your RW Fundie brother's conversion?

[leesa]

34. Many, many, many articles from me and the willingness to read them by him

Eventually he realized BushCo was conning him. Finally, the irrationality of the support of the killing in Iraq by "pro-lifers" overwhelmed his innate sensibility. He has had big fights with his fellow church-goers and thought he might have to leave even though he is an elder of his church.

He is unusual for a Fundie though because he is open-minded and curious.

[Pirate Smile]

39. He sounds great but the fact that he couldn't get through to any of his

fellow church-goers is discouraging.

People such as him will have to be the ones to make progress within those churches.

[wicket]

11. I can't wait to get the new Jim Wallis book

Glad to hear you are turning people on to it who might not have otherwise been exposed to it :)

[grasswire]

14. point them to the web site...

..of Wallis' organization at http://www.sojourners.org.

Also, you might check out http://www.theotherside.org. It's a wonderful magazine for the Christian left, based in Philadelphia.

Also, you might get a kick out of this article: "Why Don't Christians Live What They Preach?"

http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2005/001/3.8.htmlWhy don't

[pamela]

15. That's great!

I really like Jim Wallis. I have his book on order and I signed up for a trial subscription to Sojourners magazine. There are so many Christians that really don't buy into the right-wing fundie crap but just haven't heard the left articulate their values very well. Jim Wallace almost broght me to tears the other night on TDS. I think we are going to be hearing a lot abot him in thenext few years. I hope so, anyway.

When people ask me how I voted, I always say "Well, I'm one of those moral values voters you've been hearing about so I voted for Kerry."

[DemBones DemBones]

27. I love your last line! Good thinking! nt

[NAO]

16. Best Liberal Christian Article - Bible based critique of Bush/GOP policies

Scathing Critique of Bush and Religious Right by Bible Scholar (detailed analysis policy by policy using Scripture)

This article touches on most every issue of significance in the Bush/Religious Right agenda, and provides a scathing Bible based critique of Bush and of the churches that support him. The article is remarkable for it's detail and the meticulousness with which it is documented. The footnotes are nearly as long as the text, and are an article in themselves.

The Blood Guilty Churches
Why Bush’s Agenda Is Immoral and an Abomination to God
By Katherine Yurica
http://yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

excerpt:

"George W. Bush, his administration, the Republican controlled congress as well as the Republican Party itself, and most of the churches in America (including evangelical, Southern Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic), stand indicted—not by men—not by this writer—but by the very Holy Scriptures the religious-right and Mr. Bush profess to uphold."

"Weighed against the Bible, the Bush actions are not only morally corrupt—they are unchristian and unbiblical to the core. In this essay, the Bush agenda is weighed on the scale of God’s standards and it is found wanting."

http://yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

[mordarlar]

24. lol i just listed it below. One of the best i have seen.

[fishwax]

17. I saw Wallis on the Daily Show

earlier this week (Tuesday?).

He was VERY impressive, I thought. I'd love to get that book. I've known a number of conservative Christians who have rediscovered the social gospel in the last few years.

[FrenchieCat]

18. What's the name of the Book?

I read the posts pretty closely but all I saw was "Jim Wallis' new book".

[pamela]

19. God's Politics

Why the Right Gets it Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get it

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=xF4NBfj9yL&isbn=0060558288&itm=1

[FrenchieCat]

22. Thank you....

I will get it and read it and pass it on to my hubby. It's very important that religion in general and christianity in particular is a topic that Democrats start discussing seriously.....

[Debs]

21. Social Justice is a big issue for me

So when the political discussions turn to religion, I like to hit them with Jeremiah 5 28& 29: Their evil deeds have no limit;they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor.
Should I not punish them for this? declares the Lord, Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?


Then I ask if its the conservative policies or liberal policies that are making ours, 'such a nation as this'

[mordarlar]

23. I hate to push this report but it is soo good...

http://yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

I am a of Christian faith and this one is hard to counter. Woman did her homework. We really need to begin speaking in a language they understand.

[NAO]

29. Yurica ALWAYS does her homework; her site has dozens of excellent papers

The Yurica Report
http://www.yuricareport.com/

The article that turned me on to The Yurica Report:

The Despoiling of America
How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
By Katherine Yurica
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

and the excellent follow up article on the Dominionist coup in the United States:

Conquering by Stealth and Deception
How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
By Katherine Yurica
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The articles at The Yurica Report are heavily documented and the footnotes are often nearly as many pages as the articles.

This site is an important reference and a source of much high quality material.

[Z_I_Peevey]

33. Another endorsement of that article.

That should be sent to any Bush supporter who has a spark of soul left.

[NAO]

35. I'm going to give it to pastors of progressive churches in my city

I've printed it out, and I'm going to make copies and take them to pastors of progressive churches in my city.

I think this article contains information which is powerful and can really effect change. I often feel frustrated by a lack of opportunity for activism and this seems like a way to make a difference.

The more this message gets out - the specifics of the Biblical criticism of the items in Bush's agenda - AND NOT JUST THE IRAQ WAR - the more the tide can turn.

I think it's very important to discredit the conservative/religious right agenda items OTHER than the Iraq War because some Christians will always defend the war - it's in their basic temperament.

But things like poverty, environmental protection, judicial reform and social justice - which are all treated in Ms. Yurica's article - are ignored and marginalized by the religious right, yet they are clearly addressed by the Bible. Further, the Bible clearly takes the position on these issues OPPOSITE the positions taken by the religious right.

And THAT is the heart of the problem, and it is an extremely significant opportunity to effect major change.

[NAO]

48. Jim Wallis' "God's Politics" sold out at my local Barnes and Noble

That is a good sign. I don't mind waiting for my copy - I'm glad this book is doing well.

God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It by Jim Wallis
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060558288/qid=1106576672/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-6424535-4495136?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The Blood Guilty Churches
Why Bush’s Agenda Is Immoral and an Abomination to God
By Katherine Yurica
now updated to include table of contents
http://www.yuricareport.com/Religion/TheBloodGuiltyChurches.html

Blood Guilty Churches - Article Contents
In the Beginning
Invade Iraq or What's a Preemptive Strike?
Lies About the Threat of War
What Does the Bible Say About Preemptive Strikes?
The War Fairs
What Does the Bible Say About Profiting from War?
Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo
Does Mr. Bush Have the Moral High Ground?
Bush's Agenda for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid
What Does the Bible Say About How a Nation Must Treat the Poor and the Sick?
Mr. Bush's Immigration Plans
Deregulate Health and Safety and Environmental Laws
What Does the Bible Say About Rigging Devices?
Mr. Bush’s “Justice” Versus the Bible’s Justice
The Development of the Biblical Justice System
Be Careful Not to Commit Judicial Murders: The Texas Clemency Memos
Is Mr. Bush's Tort Reform Biblical?
The Bible's Criminal and Civil Code System
What Does the Bible Say About Abortions?
GOP Operatives as Slanderers and Hooligans, Scorner's and Ridiculers
What's Wrong With Today's Churches and 'Christians'?
Profile of the Man God Hates
End Notes

[proudbluestater]

25. Jim Walli's actual website is www.sojo.net

I log on to www.sojo.net often and get weekly email updates from his site.

I don't know whether he has any affiliation with sojourners.org.

[bobbieinok]

43. isn't he the/an editor of the magazine???

[DemBones DemBones]

28. That's great news! Guess I need to get Wallis's book ASAP

and pass it around to my friends who I know are sincere about their Christian beliefs, do volunteer work, give to charity, etc., yet voted for Bush**. I know they're misled but it's hard to get them to listen to a word against him.

Wallis was wise to title his book so that both sides are chastised and each side can get into it thinking he's going to come down on "them." I suspect he'll come down on "us" nearly as much as them but that's great, because we're not perfect.

[hollowdweller]

31. Maybe he's the Boenhoffer(sp?) of our time?

[JimmyJazz]

30. Do you read Yancy at all? He's another Christian who actually

understands Christ's message - not like Dobson the great distorter.

"What's so Amazing about Grace?" is a wonderful read - I gave it to a conservative christian relative. She returned it without making comment, but I was kinda hoping maybe some of it stuck anyway.

[checks-n-balances]

32. Thanks for sharing encouraging news! Now a big question:

I was wondering if there was a specific book, website, or quote that have been the biggest wake-up call for your friends & acquaintances who just now hearing a different view of Christianity? Maybe you already mentioned it, but if not, it would be great to find out which ideas and messages have the most impact.

This has been an excellent thread and I hope we'll all continue to post similar ones consistently in the future to give them a greater role in countering the focus of the religious right.

Here are four points I plan to expand on as soon as I have time to work on it:

1. In practice, the policies of the Elite Rightwing are very UNFORGIVING - not just to "the least of these", but to all who aren't at the upper echelons of the economic ladder (i.e. all those not wealthy enough to qualify for Bush II's tax cuts). Ripping off the poor and hoodwinking the middle class to be complicit in their own demise is spiritually bankrupt and certainly not a "moral value".

2. Policies that hurt the poor, vulnerable, and "the least of these" (and the environment) will ultimately come back to bite ALL of us, even the Elite Rightwing. We've got to recover the idea that we're all connected in this together, and the humility that "there but by the grace of God go I". Ultimately, even the super-wealthy robber barons of today cannot buy their way out of the problems they create for their less fortunate brothers and sisters.

3. The underlying "Armageddon theology" of the right wing is theologically and morally bankrupt and needs to be debunked because it is irresponsible and DANGEROUS. Too many policies are being developed (and assented to) because of the belief that the "good people" will escape future tribulation - and thos country's actions are probably causing it to happen. It should be called "the Anti-Christ theology" because that's exactly what it is. We need to educate ourselves & others on this and there are websites out there to go to for that.

4. Also, SIN and IMMORALITY are not limited to the personal realm! Whatever faith GWB and his followers have does not appear to include corporate accountability and responsibility. The personal failings of Bill Clinton's sex life that they so eagerly focused on look like little "splinters" compared to the huge "planks" of corporate corruption in their own eyes. Their own personal failings are magnified a thousand times - not just because they are so huge and far-reaching, but because they refuse to see them. THIS is the hypocrisy that Jesus preached against.

And that'll be all for this week's sermon...

[Quixote1818]

41. I don't know how big the impact is yet. They just seemed to be open

to the stuff and didn't write be back with a big long letter telling me I was wrong because of XY and Z like they usually do. To me that's a success. I just sent them stuff about Jim Wallis. This lady is great also: http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/fwis/

[NAO]

36. Did anyone else see Jim Wallis on The Daily Show w/ Jon Stewart?

He was on earlier this week and he was fantastic.

He got his message out - the liberal Christian message - and Stewart really helped him drive his points home.

Jon Stewart does a real service with his show - in showing the hypocrisy of our leaders and the lameness of our news media in the 'fake news' part of the show - and then by exposing his audience to fantastic authors and important books in the interview portion.

[Quixote1818]

42. He was also on Charlie Rose last night.

[bobbieinok]

44. also on NPR Fresh air with Land, the head of the So Bapt Conv

[w4rma]

37. Bingo. (nt)

[Cell Whitman]

38. good news

after he is softened up some, try sending him here and ask him if he has read John 5:43.

http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

[Pirate Smile]

40. kick

[lildreamer316]

45. Kick!

..even though I'm pagan ;)

[nevergiveup]

46. I always wanted one of those "Jesus was a liberal"

stickers on my car but figured I would get "stoned" in the biblical sense. Thanks for enlightening me of this book. I just ordered two copies, one for me and another for a family member who truly believes GW is the "Second Coming".

[Cell Whitman]

47. FYI Sam Harris debates Hugh Hewitt on religion

PAX TV at 10 pm saturday -tonight- 10 pm eastern... "Is God a Dem or Repug"

http://www.pax.tv/