Can we get DU Dean supporters on record?

[John_H]

First, a short disclaimer: I like Howard Dean. I think he's probably a little too much of a status quo candidate for DNC chair, likely to permit the consultant culture I sound like one of my kid's scratched CD's bitching about, but then again, so is everybody else running. He's not my first choice,I guess, but if he gets it, fine with me.

Here's what I'm afraid of, though. I'm afraid too many DUers have an idealized picture of Howard Dean. They defend Howard Dean like F. Lee Bailey in a roomful of Sam Shepards. On it's own there's no problem there, but I've also seen the way DUers sing hosannas to members of the progressive wing of the party one day only to call them Rove Frankensteins the minute they, GASP!, function as the politicians they are. To me this is an indication of a troublingly highschoolish hero worship and general bandwagon jumping

So, the first time Chairman Dean, the party's Insider in Chief, Corporate Fundraiser in Chief, Deal Cutter in Chief, and Keep the Party Togetherer in chief acts like one, will you continue to fight in his corner or will he be immediately Feingoldobamahillaried?

I know I asked it jovially, but the question is a serious one which I hope will be given serious thought since if serious people support someone for party chairman it seems to me that his chairmanship should be approached as if approached by serious people, not heavy metal fan club members.

[norml]

1. I'm for him. He would make a great DNC Chair.

So count one yes vote for Dean from this DU guy.

[Catch22Dem]

2. This is an awesome post!

Should be required reading.

ON EDIT: I think he'd be a fine chairman and I know he'd make decisions I wouldn't like and of course I wouldn't hold it against him or anyone else.

[wndycty]

3. I could not have said it better myself!

:kick:

[beam me up scottie]

4. I love Howard Dean and I support him.

I felt the same way when he was my governor. I didn't agree with all of his decisions but he always explained why he believed it was the right thing to do and he always welcomed dissent.

[wyldwolf]

5. If Dean gets the chair, I HOPE...

...he WILL be the party's Insider in Chief, Corporate Fundraiser in Chief, Deal Cutter in Chief, and Keep the Party Togetherer in chief.

[bullimiami]

dean doesnt lie and doesnt play games

i may not agree with all of his positions but I know they are what he says they are.

no BS. I support him.

[Demeter]

6. I Would Vote For Anyone Who Spoke Even 10% of the Truth

that Howard Dean has spoken.

[Nite Owl]

7. I think Dean can do what needs to be done

to take out the Repukes. He's an insider but nothing wrong with that as long as that insider is on your side and I think he is.

[acmavm]

8. Support Dean for DNC Chair? More than anybody else. I think the man

was made for the job and vice versa. He's the only one who's not afraid to tell it like it is, let the chips fall where they may.

I wasn't a Dean for President supporter, but I sure as hell am a Dean for DNC Chair supporter. We need to get the cowards, traitors, and those-only-concerned-with-their-careers-and-not-the-party bush* boot-lickers out of Washington.

[cali]

9. Well I supported him

for 11 years while he was gov despite the fact that not only am I more liberal than he is, but his blunt style sometimes put me off. But I know where he stands, I know he believes in people, and he's willing to listen. I expect that he'll make decisions that I don't agree with, but I know that's true with any politician, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. So sure, I'll stick with him when I don't agree with him. As I said, it sure won't be the first time.

[liberalmuse]

10. Not a Dean cultist...

But sometimes I feel like I am. I really, REALLY, like the man, but at the same time, am aware of his 'flaws' and the differences between some of his views and mine. Even so, he is SOOOOO much better than most of the 'representatives' of the Democratic party. I'd rather have him as President, but the Democratic Party could use someone with his willingness to speak up for what's right. I'm tired of the fucking pussies in my party. At least Dean has some cojones. Dean for DNC chair!

[clovis29]

11. count me!!

[eg101]

12. too rightwing for me

http://www.sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/1668089.php

[wyldwolf]

18. damn, eg101, who is LEFT enough for you?

[eg101]

23. homie don't play that.....

,,,,that whole "support some politician" thing. eg101 spreads memes.

[wyldwolf]

26. no one, then

[eg101]

46. I want to see both GOP & Dems ALL move leftwards

I want to see all the candidates, both GOP and Democratic move left and start adopting leftist poses, like they all have been moving right for the last 25 years.

I want to help bring that about. I will NEVER be satisfied with just ONE cadidate whom I find acceptable. I want ALL the candidates to be MORE acceptable to me.

That is why I post here with my plans to move America left. But everyone here is caught up in CorpGovMedia's little politcal trivia game....

[DrGonzoLives]

63. So, we're all idiots except for you

Oh, please, Wise One, show us your Master Plan.

By the way, do you actually do anything to make it happen, or just whine on an internet discussion board?

[eg101]

65. OK, you win. You win!!!

You're so clever. You get DU status points! Wear them proudly! Go PM your buddies about your triumph!

[Eloriel]

36. Yeah, and never mind if they're accurate representations or not

:puke:

Not a good way to develop -- or retain -- any credibility here at DU. But perhaps that's not something that concerns you.

[pacalo]

13. I think Howard Dean is exactly what the DNC needs now.

If ever there was a time that we needed a heavy boost of enthusiasm, it's now. I'm a Clark/Kerry supporter, but I've always liked Dean -- DNC chairman is perfect for Dean. I think he will envigorate this party & move it in the right direction.

I understand what you're saying about the fervent Dean supporters, John. I don't want their idealism of Dean shattered if he were to run into roadblocks within the party, causing him to make unpopular decisions or to change the persona that made people gravitate to him.

[pearl]

16. Shit Yeah

As many have discussed here he's not perfect; Who the fuck is?
His main goal is to build up the state parties and that's all of
us; The red and the blue. The blue state parties have gotten lazy
and our red state brethren are seriously oppressed. Notice the
states that have already come out for Dean strongly, the red ones.
reformer versus status quo.

[Eloriel]

38. Gee, could you perhaps be just a little more PATRONIZING

I understand what you're saying about the fervent Dean supporters, John. I don't want their idealism of Dean shattered if he were to run into roadblocks within the party

As a Dean supporter, I don't particular need -- or want -- your concern about my "idealism" re Dean. But thank anyway. I think. (Not.)

[Old and In the Way]

43. I don't think he meant you personally Elorial.

But you know that what he says is true. The 1st time Dean makes an unpopular statement or action, they'll be charges of "sellout" here on the DU. I'm sure the Dean supporters here will defend him, but that won't stop the posts calling for his head on a platter. It one of the boards favorite pasttimes, afterall.

For the record, I couldn't be happier if Dean is elected DNC chair. He is perfect for this position.

[pacalo]

55. Thanks, Old "but NOT" in the Way...

Btw, I'm a hot chick, not a "he". ;)

[Old and In the Way]

74. yikes!

Sorry for my unconscious and uncalled for pronounal slip, Ms. 8_year_nightmare!

:-)

[pacalo]

77. That's okay, Not Old and In the Way...

I was half-unconscious myself when I entered this conversation. Although I think John made a valid point, I should have limited my thoughts to the first paragraph only. I do like Dean's spirit & enthusiasm as much as his message, and as a huge Kerry fan, I don't like criticism of him, either.

[pacalo]

54. The "shattering" has begun already? ;)

[PassingFair]

14. For the record: I've seen some of your other posts...

...and I don't for a minute believe you "like Howard Dean".

That said: I DO like Dean, and I back him 100% in whatever capacity he feels he can do the best good for Americans.

[wndycty]

17. That is the shit I am sick of!

People who "track" posts and then try to discredit the poster. I have made some uncomplimentary statements about Dean in the past therefore I am Dean hater. . .I am just sick of this shit and I am sure the OP is as well.

[ldf]

37. and prior posts are irrelevant?

there are so many people on du that have ulterior agendas that it sure doesn't hurt to do a little checking. (as i'm sure you will now check out mine. that's cool.)

i trust dean. he's not perfect, but i DO believe that if he gets dnc chair that it will not be business as usual, and the grassroots WILL get a hearing.

that is all i ask. currently the only time we are acknowledged is when we sign the check. and we're not heard then, but they sure do cash the check.

dean is the real deal. and only the real deal is going to save the democratic party. IF it can be saved at all.

[wndycty]

39. They are not irrelevant however. . .

. . .if a person has ever said anything negative about Dr. Dean a good portion of his DU supporters will assume that he or she is no longer objective.

[JNelson6563]

66. Not true

There is a difference between one who took shots at Dean all through the primaries and now thinks he'd be a good DNC chair and the person who takes their shots and then (falsely) claims to "like" him.

I believe your claims of backing Dean for chair but I don't think I'd believe you if you claimed to actually like him. There's a difference between liking someone and putting aside personal views because they'd be the best person for a job.

Julie

[John_H]

22. I do like howard dean, I just don't remake him in some American Idol

grass roots progressivism action figure just because that's what I've decided I want him to be.

Not only do I like howard dean but I guarantee I know how he operates better than most DUers. I think he would have been a sure-loss nominee for president, I may poke fun at some of the odd hero worship he engenders at DU, and I certainly point out that he is a pragmatic moderate, an expert and active corporate fundraiser, and a consumate insider but please don't confuse realism with dislike.

Thanks for going on record with your loyal support for Dean, even if he has t make some very "un-deanlike" decisions.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. "First, a short disclaimer: I like Howard Dean."

Always a dead giveaway to a coming bashing of either
Dean or Dean supporters.

[AntiCoup2K4]

31. You got that right, Herr Governator!

Now as for the subject matter, I believe that Howard Dean will continue to be Howard Dean as DNC chair. Do I expect sweeping changes in the party overnight? Hell, it would be nice, but we all know the DLC'ers will try to sabotage him any way and every way they can get away with.

Eventually though, we will prevail. The support he's getting in the "red" states is evidence enough that they are sick of the way the party has been run. And why wouldn't they be, given the dominance the Republicans currently have in those states as a result of DLC corporatist appeasement.

[Eloriel]

40. Oh, man, I'm tellin' ya

He just wont he prize for MOST patronizing and arrogant. And here I thought that other poster was bad. Holy criminy.

[pacalo]

56. Heyyyyyy!

http://www.jokes.thefunnybone.com/waves/blowwhis.wav

[SheilaT]

15. Howard Dean has a great deal of support

here on DU. I'm one of his supporters. And like others, I don't agree with everything he says or does, but he's not the Inside the Beltway guy that too many others are. He's actually willing to stand up and say what he believes in, which is quite refreshing these days.

If he becomes DNC chair I think there's hope for the party.

[Upfront]

19. Been Around

Way more years then most but that doesn't prove wisdom, and I know that. I wish you all could have been here when Bobby Kennedy picked up the torch. He was the best of the best, Dean is by far the closest to him I have seen. I trust Howard to lead us and I will follow. I do not follow fools.

[Eloriel]

41. I've heard that from someone else whose political judgment I trust

implicitly. She has been following politics since her pre-teens. She has been uncannily right on so many things in the past couple of years I've lost count. SHE says Dean is like RFK. I believe her. (I wasn't paying attention to politics back then, so I'm glad she was.)

[Zensea]

67. My mother says Dean reminds her of Truman

who she remembers & I notice that Dean quotes him quite a bit.
I hadn't thought of the RFK comparison. I'll have to ask her about that.
I know that when I saw Dean speak I was struck by how it seemed his political consciousness did seem to have been strongly shaped by politics in the mid-Sixties. He kept bringing a lot of his points back to the root issue of the civil rights movement in the sixties.

[Cheswick2.0]

20. flame bait

[eg101]

25. if dean gets dnc, will we be spared seeing him in 08 primaries?

If so, I might change my mind....

[Cheswick2.0]

58. okay Cryofan...............since you don't support any politicians, why

should we care?

BTW, you have not posted at P4C in a while. Tired of getting your anarchist ass kicked on a board where people don't have to mince their words when speaking to you?

[Zensea]

69. Ches, Ches

:spank: :toast:

[AntiCoup2K4]

71. eg is Cryofan?

Damn, they really are all coming out of retirement, aren't they?

[RafterMan]

50. No it isn't

The Dean supporters who've chosen to answer this question without worrying over the spirit in which it was asked have given very useful answers.

[Cheswick2.0]

59. Yes it is flamebait

and no one is obligated to answer flamebait questions.

[biscotti]

21. Yes

He handles the MSM well.

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. I am not convinced of the" jovial" aspect of your post

However, to answer your question, I am not naive, politics is an art of compromise to a great extent, the greatest artisans are masters at knowing when and when not to compromise. I think Dean will be a great DNC Chair. I think he is right for the job and I don't have some wild fantasy about what he will or will not do. I expect to fully support Dean even though I will not fully support everything he does in that role.

[NC_Nurse]

28. I am pretty cynical about all politicians

but I think Howard Dean is a whole lot more forthright than most. I support him for DNC chair because he's not afraid to plainly disagree with others and not sugarcoat it.

That said, I reserve the right to be pissed when he lets me down, which he inevitably will on occasion. I supported Bill Clinton too, but there were several times I was very disappointed and angry about his wimping out on issues that were important to me (the don't ask-don't tell bullshit comes to mind).

Then again, I'm not one to throw out the baby with the bathwater either. I don't decide these people are closet Repubs or whatever....

[lojasmo]

29. This is the most poorly writen post I've seen in a while.

What's the question?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

30. The question is ...

Do you think Howard Dean being defended by his supporters
is like F. Lee Bailey being defended by a roomful of Sam
Shepards? Or something like that. Fractured grammar is jovial!

[lojasmo]

32. No: I like howard dean "warts and all"

He's honest, does what he says, and if he learns something which causes him to change his mind, he explains himself well.

I don't agree with all the things he did as Gov. of Vermont, but I never had to do that job, and couldn't say I definately would have done it better.

He's got my vote for whatever endeavor he chooses to undertake.

[John_H]

52. "So, what are you wearing?...."

Didn't you get that question from my post? And you've only read one post, Hemingway?

[lojasmo]

57. If somebody starts a thread which is supposed to be a question

the OP should actually contain a question. I'm not taking the time to read through a lot of poorly formed responses to a poorly worded O.P.

Thanks for playing.

[sorechasm]

33. Dr. Dean is a Heavy Harmonica Man not a Heavy Metal Man

Muddy Waters wannabe not Robert Plant

He will make some unpopular decisions, then he will explain why he made them on principal, and the DUers will say "Hey, I don't agree, but I'm OK with that."

He's media savvy, but he also has character. We need that. He's barely left of center, but he sees both sides, and we need that too.

Politics is full of compromise, but some Democrats get DU pilloried because their principals sometimes seem buried, and they never feel the need to explain themselves.

Plus, I doubt Howard's wife will ever get mixed up in any conflict-of-interest lobbying group. Her patients come first.

[Downtown Hound]

34. I agree Dean's record isn't perfect

But his ability to build up grassroots support and enthusiasm is just what the party needs right now. They've been playing things by the beltway for too long, they need to go back to the people. I think Howard Dean is the man to do that, and his close ties to the grassroots will keep him in line when he starts to stray to far to the right or the center.

[Malikshah]

35. Getting folks on record? What are we now? Bushbots

Loyalty pledges, "getting folks on record"

Ah...I see.

The 5,549 thread to treat Dean supporters like recalcitrant children who need to have the real world explained to them.

With the requisite "I like Dean..." to start it off.

Sorry--but this is soooooooo last year. (January to be specific)

:)

[Eloriel]

44. Good call

Took me halfway thru the thread to come to your realization. :-(

Not only are we children to whom Reality has to be explained, but we also have to promise to "be nice" and not get hysterical if things don't go our way. I think the original poster is waaaaaay too full of himself.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

42. I'm for him

He'll make sure the party stands up and fights.

[mandyky]

45. Hopefully, HD will not be a "Corporate Fundraiser in Chief"

Dean is in for DNC Chair to energize the grassroots, including giving _them_ reason to donate money. Personally, I am hoping Dean as DNC Chair takes on the lobbyists and corporate interests that have corrupted our political system. Dean is more apt to work with Labor than Corporations themselves, I think.

What I want to know is how many "Dean supporters" villianized Feingold
and Obama? Obama was a Dean Dozen before he was Obama the star and is well liked and respected at DFA. As for Hillary, she _was_ a "Goldwater Girl" and she and Bill are big supporters of ABD, so if Hillary anomosity exists (in Dean supporters), oh well.

[rucky]

47. I'll hold him to the same standards I'd hold to any DNC chair.

Nor will I hesitate to put anything he does up for criticism & debate.

And I think Dean would want it that way.

[zulchzulu]

48. Not a fan during primaries, but am a fan now

I do as much as time will allow on DFA issues...Dean is a good man...not sure he needs to waste his time on DNC chair...but anyway...

[Oreegone]

51. Go Dean

The best choice for the Democratic Party Chair...let's have some balls here folks.
What is this shit? About going to the right....anti abortion?...What the freakin' Hell...
Yaaaaaaaargh.......(by the way that was doctored on CNN, I have the original tape....you couldn't even hear him over the crowd..................Give em' hell Howard and I'm right behind you.

[Guaranteed]

53. See, the hope is that his getting the chair will get RID of that garbage.

No more cowardice, please.

I'll certainly understand that his job isn't going to be easy, but the reason I support him is that I know he's not going to be business as usual.

[Walt Starr]

60. I'll support him no matter what

I don't agree with Dean on everything, but I do agree with him on the most important thing.

R-E-F-O-R-M

[RandomKoolzip]

61. I like Dean....he's not some Be-all, end-all candidate, he's not a

superhero, but he IS different enough to be noticeable. What I like the most about him is that he's a fighter, unlike 94% of all the other high-profile Dems out there.

I don't worship at his feet, but I do indeed put some of my faith in him, simply because he's shown a willingness to say stuff and do stuff other Dems would consider career suicide, for a cause I believe in. Who knows how his career will turn out? Who knows if his strategy will be a disaster or a lifeline? Who knows if he'll suddenly become a corporate right-winger? Who knows? The point is we don't know, but at least Dean's different.

[realFedUp]

62. Seriously

since Dean supporters have to continually
support their reasons for endorsing Dean
as a great candidate for DNC chair because
some in this forum still don't get it.
(PS I hate heavy metal and it's really ignorant
to continue calling us groupies of some kind)

He's shown that he can stick...even after
losing in the primaries, he worked hard
for Dem candidates and Kerry/Edwards.
The organization was successful at supporting
new candidates in tough races even if all
didn't win their seats. He continues to
work on behalf of a better party and country
and inspires those at the bottom to work
within the system for good change and
our future.

He speaks clearly about what is true and what is not.

I think he'd be a great DNC chair and a good
representative of the people and the party.

[DrGonzoLives]

64. You really need to ask?

Of course he'll be curcified here - it's what we do best.

It amazes me that some people demand absolute, unswerving 100% loyalty to what THEY believe, else you're a DINO.

[txaslftist]

68. Put me down as an ardent supporter...

Dean has what it takes.

[Individualist]

70. "troublingly highschoolish hero worship"

How condescending! I'm 61 years old and admire Dr. Dean for his candor as well as his prioritizing people above corporations.

[bkcc]

72. I'm for Howard.

I think that he'll breathe some life into this tired old party.

[Padraig18]

73. The vast majority of Dean supporters are rational people.

Yes, he excites us, but we dont 'high school hero worship' him, nor do the vast majority of us attack Obama, Feingold, et al. As with any group of people, the 'iceberg principle' applies: you hear from the 10% that are visible, while the 90% that aren't visible remain silent.

Don't judge us all by the rantings of a few loudmouths.

[jswordy]

75. Heavy metal fan club members...

...sounds a bit harsh. The far left, which disasterously co-opted Dean's primary campaign, also turned on him and bitterly derided him before they left him, as soon as it was clear he wasn't the winning horse they thought he would be. The folks who are left, like me, are those who recognized that Dr. Dean is NOT a "too liberal" liberal, but rather an awesomely pragmatic man who is fiscally conservative and socially moderate to progressive.

We are not trying to graft our political beliefs onto a different species of politician, as the far left did with Dean's campaign primarily through the new power of the Internet. I saw lefties waxing poetic in those days about Dean, saying things about him as gospel that in reality had no thread of connection to his real political views.

No, those of us who stick with the good doc are those who actually know where he stands, who think that a firm-footed, honest politician is a rare thing in our party these days, and who are sick and tired of losing races because we as a party have decided we'd rather not stand up for anything firmly -- just in case someone might not like us. That's not a winning attitude.

To win, we must reach out but we must ALSO let people know where we stand and that where we stand is in their corner. We must show Americans that we will not try to wiggle out of that corner when the heat gets turned up, either. That is why we lose, people do not believe our party stands up for them anymore.

Dean as a person exudes the qualities the party needs to get going on the right track again. I will support him for who I have always known him to be, should he become chairman. And if he does, he will also bring a change of "corporate climate" to the DNC that is badly needed. So it won't be all biz as usual if Howard is in charge.

That's why they are so scared of him. And also why I back him. We need that change!

[RetroLounge]

76. More Bullshit Flamebait

and poorly written at that...

"To me this is an indication of a troublingly highschoolish hero worship and general bandwagon jumping"

Wow, maybe I'll diagram that sentence someday...

RL

[Cheswick2.0]

78. LOL!

[KissMeKate]

79. perhaps there is a point under the flamebait.

I too, wonder if being the DNC chairman will put pressure on Dean to water down his message and style.

I like him the way he is, and want him to run for 08 to be president.

I hope being DNC chair wont make him a mealymouthed go along to get along and get corporate cash guy.

[livinginphotographs]

80. I'm not a Dean-loonie or anything....

But I support him 100% for DNC chair. I supported him in the primaries for the same reasons.

I don't know why so many people try to make out Dean supporters as being "cultists" or something. I like him for what he says. If he turns out to be a liar and a DLC shill, I'll owe you a coke. :shrug:

[IronLionZion]

81. I'm for Dean 100%

and very much against the flip flopping that goes on around here