Biden/Ford jr. ticket in 08?

[illbill]

So far here is what I think good tickets would be. Remember folks, we should cherrish the "liberal elite". It is a tarnished word but who it represents, politician wise, is who should be running our country.

1. Biden/Harold Ford Jr.
2. Clinton/Clark (or Clark as Pres and Clinton VP)
3. Clinton/Edwards
4. Clinton/Biden
5 Clark/Biden *** my favorite.


Who else?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Blaaghhh.

Biden needs to go the hell away. He spends way too much time kissing Republican ass. Same for Hillary. The only one on that list who's worth anything is Wes Clark.

[asjr]

2. Biden/Ford? No No No

[AP]

3. Please. No Joe Biden. I usually give Democrats a lot of leeway. I presume

that if they are bad, it usually because it wouldn't be possible for anyone better to get elected in their state.

For Biden, that presumption goes out the window. I've never liked Biden and I think Del. could do better.

[illbill]

5. Awww ...

Guys, personally Biden is my favorite Senator.

Although I'm pro-Iraq-war, but anti-rhetoric given to explain why we needed to go....

Biden is classy, he has TONS of experience and has a reaganesque yet Democratic image... He was on the BBC a few months ago discussing foreign relations. The main is simply unbelievable... I do not see why so many people dislike him....

He represents class and foresight to me.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Biden is a sell-out.

Every now and then he'll get a nice rant going, but then he'll turn around and make nice and bend over for the Bush Reich. And any Democrat who is pro-Iraq-war hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting nominated in '08. Plus, he's damaged goods. Last time he was interested in running that old plagiarism incident surfaced, and it will again. Sorry, Joe blows. He's mostly a DINO.

[illbill]

9. Why are dems anti-Iraq-war!??

I don't get it! Screw the WMD's, in order to maintain hegemonic dominance we NEEDED to put a strong foothold in the area...

The only problem I had with it was that a stupid Repub was doing it and made up so much bullshit to justify it.

Watch this video... I was anti-Iraq war until Tom Barnett cleared up a lot of things for me --> http://www.realopinion.com/realboards/showthread.php?t=646

[AP]

11. Hegemonic dominance is ultimately going to be a disaster. It's going to be

more expensive, destabilizing, immoral and deadly.

I believe the US has the reservoir of talent, initiative and intelligence to dominate marketplaces simply by working hard on a level playing field (and if we lose that way once in an while, we'll win more the next time we win).

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. WTF do we need hegemonic dominance for?

Isn't that just a fancy term for imperialism? In case you hadn't noticed, we tried the same damn stupid stunt in Vietnam 40 years ago, and we saw how well that turned out -- 58,000 American soldiers dead, and we had our asses handed to us. Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam. Get a clue...

[IndianaGreen]

16. Hitler also believed in maintaining "hegemonic dominance"

No matter how you label it, Manifest Destiny, hegemony, national security, it is nothing more than imperialism. The American Empire must die if we are to save the Republic!

[TheFarseer]

24. I didn't think there were any pro-war DUers

We already have a foothold with Saudi Arabia. We could have just kissed Saddam's ass and got his oil. It seemed to work in the 80's. We wouldn't even have to lose thousands of troops to do that. Or we could devote all the war money to science and come up with some new energies or refine the turkey guts to oil machine to make it cost effective. Trying to grab all the oil now is like trying to grab all the horses in 1890. It's not the future. And as for Saddam was a bad man. I'm a big believer in, if you don't like something about your country YOU fix it.

[IndianaGreen]

25. We did have prowar DUers, and still do!

You can see them now repeating the Powell line that we cannot cut and run as justification for staying in Iraq.

[RapidCreek]

34. I'm too classy to entertain such a crass, infantile and demonstrably

ineffective means of maintaining dominance....not that I think it is ever truly attainable.

Folks like yourself are really a hoot. You advocate war as the best method of "maintaining" US world hegomony and in the same breath praise politicians who continually supplicate to the competition. Sort of ironic don't you think?


RC

[IrateCitizen]

56. Chasing a hegemony that no longer exists...

That's what the US is doing right now. At least the majority of the EU -- especially their "engine", France and Germany -- have decided to allow the US to follow this folly alone.

Real power in the world is no longer wielded militarily, it is wielded economically. The EU and Pacific Rim countries seem to have figured this out. The US is simply trying to apply 20th century strategy to a 21st century world.

As Emmanuel Todd points out in his excellent book, After the Empire -- the US didn't win the Cold War, it just didn't lose it as quickly as the USSR did. FWIW, Todd also predicted the coming demise of the USSR in the mid-70's for many of the same reasons he's pointing to the decline of the US before too long.

[RapidCreek]

69. Couldn't have said it better!

RC

[Zensea]

63. What would Woody Guthrie think of hegemonic dominance?

????

[lojasmo]

80. war dehumanizes people, and is unnecessary.

it is structured terrorism. Dems aren't necessarily against war, but humanists are.

A pro-war stance is a republican stance, in my opinion.

[AP]

10. To me, Biden comes across as arrogant, uninformed and condescending.

He talks as if he thinks his audience is made up of idiots.

I know someone who knew him when he was young and said that he had a reputation for being a dummy.

His hair plugs make me think he's vain too.

[ashling]

15. I was going to say the same thing

He talks as if he thinks his audience is made up of idiots.

or maybe he is just talking to himself. As in his "Johnny stole a gold chain" parable. blah, blah, blah

[TheFarseer]

19. You'd be condescending too if

you had to talk to God Damn stupid republicans all day. My favorite was when he was lecturing (not sure, might have been Rummy) "The reason we have anti-torture treaties is so Americans are not tortured" I really like Biden too. I hate the war. The war is why I sought out this site. I don't think you can hold it against dems who voted for the war. If it would have turned out like they were saying it would - you would be DONE politically if you voted against it. Although I have the deepest respect for Kucinich and others who went out on a limb and voted against it.

[illbill]

22. Thankyou

for your similar insight.

[American Tragedy]

44. Robert Byrd wasn't DONE politically, and he's Senator of West Virginia

for God's sake, not necessarily the most progressive state in America. Kennedy wasn't DONE politically. Feingold obviously wasn't DONE politically, since he just got reelected.

That resolution was a blank check. It didn't even have a provision requiring that inspections and final report be completed before any military action. To me, this thing was an obvious disaster from the beginning, and I would think that if I could discern it, surely our elected officials might have suspected as much.

Goddammit, most of these people are old enough to remember this scenario, when their generation was at hazard. I sure as hell do hold it against them.

[AP]

77. If that's Biden's excuse then he needs lessons in impulse control or

lessons in identifying the differences between Republicans and Democrats, or both.

I don't have a problem with Biden because he voted yes on the IWR resolution, but I have a problem with why I think he voted yes.

Biden seems motivated by the desire to concentrate more wealth in the hands of the wealthy corporations which call Del. their home.

[RapidCreek]

33. What's classy about being a two faced whore?

Oh wait, you'd call that foresight right?



RC

[illbill]

38. Clark...

isn't two faced? Dem/Repub...the same thing with him. Oh yeah, why is it that he managed to gain a sit in position with CNN right before the primaries? Although he blew the opportunity by looking nervous and provided baseless arguments, he still received an unfair advantage.

Clark is not the answer either.

[robbedvoter]

45. Makes sense for you. Then stop associating him with Biden, yourself.

We've seen previous threads with obscenities+ticket proposals in the same sentence - and I get whiplash. Let's get this clear:
illbill: war good. Biden good. Europe Satan, Bush God.
Clark bad.

Don't mix those up. Don't use 'us" "pal" "bud" "us"

[pstans]

4. I am not too high on any of those

I would have to say Clark/Biden would be my favorite out of those, but it doesn't excite me much.

[illbill]

6. Biden...

would tear a new one in any Repub that debated him... marks my words on that. As a matter of fact, i'm going to e-mail the Senator right now. lol

[last1standing]

21. That worked so well for Kerry, didn't it?

We need someone with conviction, and strength of character, not a calculating politico. Of all your choices, only Clark fits that mold.

[w13rd0]

27. Don't forget...

...hasn't he already been on a ticket? Or was he just going to be and then passed over?

[Pastiche423]

7. lol!

[Vadem]

13. Noooooooo...........

:puke:

[Tinoire]

14. Lol...

[IndianaGreen]

17. Biden/Ford? Is this the moderate GOP ticket for 2008?

Or the Democratic Appeasement ticket? I cannot tell them apart.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. It's the Democratic Roll Over On Your Back And Show Them

Your Soft Belly ticket. It's the Democratic Bend Over And Grab Your Ankles, No Vaseline, Thank You ticket. It's the Democratic Please, Master, Not The Whip ticket.

Feh. :puke:

[AntiCoup2K4]

18. PNAC/Moonie 2008

Yeah, there's a winning ticket :eyes:

[robbedvoter]

23. Biden to Europe - we have W, so STFU!

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050116...

Biden also praised Rice, but noted that "relations with many of our oldest friends are quite frankly scraping the bottom right now.''
However, Biden also had blunt advice for European critics: "I have one simple message: Get over it. Get over it. President Bush is our president for the next four years. So get over it and start to act in your interest, Europe.''..........

[illbill]

26. page...

not available bud.

[robbedvoter]

28. Not your bud.

Link now leads to a newer article. The one I quoted was from Jan 18 - search transcript.

[illbill]

29. His actual quote:

""I have one simple message: Get over it. Get over it. President Bush is our president for the next four years. So get over it and start to act in your interest, Europe."

Nothing wrong with that pal; Biden speaks the truth.

[robbedvoter]

30. A post I'll cherish - to call your credibility like I do biden's.

Dissmissed.

[illbill]

32. If only...

"dissmissed" was a word. No fear, I've dismissed your previous error and will try to help you as much as I can in the future. :)

[TheWatcher]

36. So basically you agree that it was worth it to gain a foothold

In a country that had no weapons, was not a threat, and never threatened to attack us. They had nothing to do with 9/11. Sure they had Saddam. An old business partner of ours just like Noriega, just like many other Despots in this world that we helped CREATE.

You agree with a war based on lies, fought on lies, and started based on lies.

You agree that the 100,000 CIVILIANS and nearly 1400 Americans was worth it for some bullshit excuse like "hegemonic dominance".

Of all the so called excuses we went to war for, that one is by far the most entertaining.

I'm sorry, you cannot give ANY good reason why we are there, how it has been worth it, and ANY good justifications that have been spewed to us over the past four years.

NONE.

Period.

Let me spell it out for you again "bud."

We attacked a DEFENSELESS country.

They had NO weapons. They did not threaten us.

EVERY excuse we have been given for this war is either a lie or absolute nonsense.

We have KILLED 100,000 Civilians.

We have LOST nearly 1400 Soldiers.

And now we are in a Quagmire that has NO positive resolution in sight.

What you support is Mass Murder built on lies.

Good for you. I hope you can sleep at night.

I would imagine you thought Hitler's invasion of Poland was a neat trick too.

Other people have been awfully conciliatory in this thread, but I refuse to be conciliatory about this subject any longer. Sooner or later insanity like this is simply unsupportable on ANY level. In my opinion we have reached that moment in time.

People like you disgust me.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR WHAT WE HAVE DONE.

NONE.

On Edit: You should definitely call into Mike Malloy's program with your line of reasoning sometime. The results would be most entertaining.

[illbill]

37. I direct you to....

Watch this entire program: http://www.realopinion.com/realboards/showthread.php?t=646 (C-SPAN Special: Thomas P.M. Barnett, Author, "The Pentagon's New Map" )

and then go to this link:

http://www.realopinion.com/realboards/showthread.php?t=1395 (*note Iraq is #6) Saudi Arabia is the only other option to maintain hegemonic dominance. Bush simply chose the easiest first.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IrateCitizen]

59. I assume you're volunteering heavily in vets hospitals, illbill?

I would assume that you're spending time comforting those soldiers who are saddled with extreme cases of PTSD? Those who have lost limbs, eyesight, suffered brain damage, and so on?

I only ask you this, because what I have just described is the cost of your desire for "hegemonic dominance".

As a former service member, I find your position to be utterly without conscience or humanity. It is representative of the lowest and most vile aspects of human nature. Why? Because it is one that treats those who sign up for the military as mere pawns to be thrown into the organized slaughter that is war just for the purpose of making YOUR life easier as you sit in comfort halfway around the world. And it also displays a chilling lack of humanity toward those unlucky enough to find themselves on the receiving end of our gun barrel, their only crime to have been born in a region that happens to have oil under its soil.

In short, go to hell. Then again, with the reasoning you display here, you'll end up there eventually....

[robbedvoter]

60. No. illbill is enlisting. To make sure our hegemony is safe.

[IrateCitizen]

62. The kind of s#@! he's spewing really rankles me!

Especially since I know many, many veterans of the current conflict who will be psychologically scarred for life due to the PTSD they suffer from being placed in situations in which they may have actually killed unarmed, innocent civilians in Iraq.

But hey, illbill has his hegemony, so it's all worthwhile!!!

Just more proof of the power of the myth of American exceptionalism.

[Lexingtonian]

31. very funny

Maybe Hillary Clinton is part of this liberal elite you refer to. None of the others is.

[RapidCreek]

35. I think he meant to say conservative elite.

They certainly ain't liberals, that's for sure.

RC

[Darknyte7]

70. This is a joke, right?

[proudbluestater]

39. No Biden anywhere. He's gutless

[IndianaGreen]

40. He is also a PPI neolib

the flip side of PNAC's neocons.

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. Actually, he's gone beyond that now

Like his buddy Will Marshall, Biden's signature now appears on a PNAC document himself.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

[demwing]

41. Is this Satire?

I'm trying to understand your goal so I can properly frame a response.

[robbedvoter]

46. It's coming out. See #29

[TheWatcher]

51. It's as transparent as glass.

[demwing]

68. Unfortunately, NOT Satire...

just worthy of satire.

[CWebster]

42. None of the above.

[Larkspur]

43. None of the above, but I'll support Gore/Dean '08!

Not supportive of Biden the Plagerizer or Harold Ford Jr., both of whom supported the immoral war against Iraq.

And I won't vote for Hillary/John Edwards because both supported the Iraq War as well, and Hillary is whoring herself currently for the Xtian Fundie vote.

And of course Clark is out of the questions since he won't do anything significant to bolster his claim of being a Democrat. He needs to first run as a Democrat for a civilian political office lower than President, win that office, perform the duties of that office well, and win re-election at least once before running for Prez. Those are my conditions for Clark to earn my support.

[demwing]

67. Larkspur, that requirement of Clark

is spot on, and (IMO) applies to anyone else looking to jump onto the Democratic ticket fro Pres.

[Larkspur]

78. Yep, a Dem Prez nominee should at a minimum have a long history of being

a Democrat.

If Clark ran as an Independent, I wouldn't require a long history as member of a political party, but I would still require the pre-Prez run elected office stint just to show competenece at running a civilian campaign, managing a civlian politcal office, and winning re-election.

[realFedUp]

49. No on Biden...n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

50. Good Lord NO.............. Gore/Dean or Gore/Boxer.....even Gore/Clinton

Gore/Clinton just because it would be so freaking funny watching the right go nuts. Hillary might ever learn to be a bit more liberal as VP.

[WI_DEM]

52. We all entitled to our own opinions, but Biden is Washington

and he can be labeled as easily as Kerry was. Ford also has been in Washington for many years in congress and is running for the Senate from Tennessee in '06--I would rather if he is elected Senator that he serve his full term.

[noonwitch]

53. No Biden, all we'll hear about is how he cheated on a test in college

I like Clinton/Clark. In either order. If Bush and the repubs screw things up any worse, then Hillary could stand a good chance to win. Especially if the GOP follows up a disaster by running Jeb.

[NoDoub8]

54. Biden??

Yuk!!

[Walt Starr]

55. None of them

Sorry, I wouldn't vote for a single one of those tickets.

[Padraig18]

57. Joe' Speech Stealer' Biden?

No, thank you. I'm done supporting Northeastern Democratic senators for President.

[robbedvoter]

61. No. F* you Europe, we got W" Biden. See # 29

[IndianaGreen]

81. "President Bush is our president for the next four years. So get over it"

We have another of those Bush-won-get-over-it posters! :puke:

[AP]

75. I wouldn't have a problem with Biden stealing the speech of a good

honest Labour politician from the UK if I felt for a second that Biden was motivated by the same desire to help the working man and woman that the politicians from whom he stole that speech was motivated by.

Had Biden honestly felt those things, he might not have had to borrow someone else's speech.

[Padraig18]

58. Edwards/Blagoevich.

Popular, good-looking, second-term governor of a BIG blue, Midwestern state as VP couldn't hurt...

[charlottelouise]

64. Harold Ford

Harold Ford, Jr. No way, either as Senator or VP candidate. I like Jr. -- he's my congressman. He does accommodate the right-wing more than I like, but, on the other hand, he does a good job on constituent service. I'd like to see him go further.

Basically, the Congressional seat is his as long as he wants it. He inherited it, true, but he is also popular with his constituents. It doesn't hurt, either, that he also inherited an extremely powerful machine (not as powerful as it once was,but still a definite asset).

As far as going further, to state-wide or national office, consider:

1. A West Tennessee Democrat isn't going to get elected to a statewide office. That's just the way it is. It's not race, it's being from Memphis.

2. Jr. has far too much baggage to carry on a state-wide or national campaign. Memphis voters understand, I think, that you can pick your friends but not your relatives. And, Jr. has a large and colorful family. It isn't fair to lump him in with his less reputable relatives, but it's going to happen. Let's see.....

- Harold Sr. was tried (and acquitted, I must add) of bank fraud. It's long and complicated, but Knoxville and other East Tennessee voters will remember the story -- and there'll be plenty of reminders if they don't.

- The antics of John Ford (his uncle). The latest on John has been on the LBN board -- suffice it to say that John has a colorful life and some real problems with impulse control.

- Another uncle, James (now deceased), also a politician, ran a non-profit daycare business with gov't subsidies, and there were some questionable financial dealings. Again, the ultimate verdict was that James just kept bad records, but it's mud that can be flung.

- Another uncle, Emmitt, actually did time back in the 80's (federal insurance fraud)

- On the other hand, uncles Edmund (Memphis City Council) and Joe (Shelby County Commission) do seem to be relatively clean.

All in all, whether or not you see Jr. as an authentic Democrat isn't really the issue. I just don't see him as electable outside of Memphis / Shelby County.

[AP]

76. Man, that's a big family.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

65. i'de rather be in labor for 10 days & give birth to a 25 lb porcupine ....

without the benifit of drugs than vote for that repukelite ticket = a bunch of republites & corporate whores!...the DLC SUCKS!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. Now THAT'S descriptive!

I'm still laughing. Not to mention I share your sentiments about "Am, I on camera?" Biden and the opportunist from Tenn.

[Carolina]

72. LOL

give birth to a 25 lb porcupine without the benefit of drugs ... I hear ya and I agree with ya completely.

Thanks for the humor, too; I can't stop laughing at the image!!!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

73. breech

:7

[IndianaGreen]

83. Gawd Almighty!

There is no doubt about how you feel about the DLC!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. It's too early to decide who I do want for 2008, but I can name a few I

DON'T want, and Biden-Ford is a prime example of a combo that I don't want.

If the Dems were actually so stupid as to nominate them, that would probably send me over to the Greens, because it would be for me the final signal that they have lost all interest in being an opposition party.

[dansolo]

74. Any of those and I vote Green.

I could stomach Clark/Clinton, but if Biden is on the ticket, even as VP, I will not vote Democratic. In many ways I find him even worse than Lieberman.

[lojasmo]

79. I won't vote for any of those tickets, sorry.

I'm done voting for PNAC lite. Never a-freaking-gain.

Clark on the right ticket (i.e. none of those other people) might be acceptable.

[newsguyatl]

82. absolutely a repulsive bunch