Howard Dean the the DNC chair -- the fun has just begun!

[jswordy]

Now it is getting good, and the fun will only get better as we near the fateful February day!

Bob Kerrey says, "I don't think that's a good idea -- stopping anybody," after being asked to run for DNC chair by the Stop Dean folks:

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/005848.html

Why Dean? Mark Hertsgaard in Salon, via the DFA blog for those who do not subscribe to Salon:

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/005852.html#more

About Gov. Dean, with hypertext links:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/dean_for_chair.php

To those of us who support Dean for DNC chair, I say keep a thick skin and keep your chin up. Looks like the next 3 weeks is going to get pretty nasty, as the entrenched powers try to stop change and preserve their own comfort levels. Keep the faith!

[quinnox]

1. I really don't have a dog in this race

I like Fowler some, but wouldn't mind if any of them became chairman.

Probably Dean will win, he seems to be a frontrunner.

I'm sure the Deaniacs will be very happy once the choice is announced.

[cilla4progress]

2. I say, "go for it!"

"It" is obviously not working now. Not only is Dean representative of a huge, growing, and important wing of the Dem party, but it's clearly time to mix it up. What have we got to lose? I have tons more confidence in Dean than I do in the old donkeys who've been hangin' around the corrals for far too long now. Time to put 'em out to pasture and bring in new blood!

[iamjoy]

3. What Does Everybody Have Against This Guy

I didn't think he'd make a good president, but he would make an excellent DNC Chair.

Of course, aren't there any qualified women or minorities out there? >Sigh<

[Rowdyboy]

8. Actually, Wellington Webb is a qualified minority who is very

much in the running. And because of his entry, former Dallas mayor Ron Kirk decided to stay out.

I have no idea why no women ran. My personal choice would have been Anne Lewis. She's eloquent as a party spokesman, doesn't take any bull off anybody, and is Democratic to the core. Wish she'd run. Anne Richards would also make a fantastic DNC chair, as would Pat Shroeder. Sadly, they didn't run..... :shrug:

[iamjoy]

23. Pat Schroeder Rocks!

Isn't she the Congresswoman from Colorado who once said,
"I tell my mother I'm a prostitute because I'm ashamed to admit I'm in politics"

[Rowdyboy]

25. I believe you're right!

She was quite a thorn in the side of the big boys in the military. I understand that she had many of them thoroughly intimidated. She was one tough congressman.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. I agree!

[burn the bush]

4. they need to use Dean somewhere. He sure has a lot of energy

Hate to see it go to waste.

[oc2002]

5. Dean wont fade away if he is not the next chairman. He will go to another

party.

[DaveinMD]

6. no he won't

he'll build the party from the outside.

[Maat]

7. I agree, DaveinMD!

I'll be supporting him either way! We'll get the job done no matter what.

[DaveinMD]

9. by the way

I'm a Clark guy. But I think Dean as DNC Chair is the right move.

[Maat]

35. I've always been a Dean guy.

But I also liked the idea of Clark being the candidate, and Kucinich being the candidate, and Kerry being the candidate (mostly 'cause this law student appreciates what an intellectual critical-thinker he is - compared to another richish brat who shall go nameless). Heck, I even love listening to every minute of the very interesting Rev. Al! None of these guys will ever get in, though, they are far too 'straight-talking-ish.'

[Rowdyboy]

10. Howard Dean has made his feelings about leaving the Democratic

party known. He'll stay and fight, regardless, much as Republicans and Greens hate it.

[ewagner]

11. Unfortunate crossroads being reached here

I'm afraid that we've reached an unfortunate crossroads in the life of our party. We've reached the point where we can not have a win/win for both factions of the party. Somebody will have to lose...something...for my money, the Vernon Jordan faction of the party needs to be the loser. If you remember in Jom Hightower's book, he talked about Vernon Jordan at the 1996 convention where Jordan spoke to a group of Democrats and told them that when he (Jordan, as a lobbyist) brought Corporate Execs in to see the President of the United States, he wanted to bring them in to see a "...Democratic President instead of a Republican President..." The book also noted that many of the events (breakfasts, conferences, etc) were sponsored by corporations. Hence, corps and lobbyists have too much influence on the party and grassroots have too little influence....

This has to change.

Dean can be the vehicle for that change.

But, unfortunately, the corporatists will have to lose.....

(note:flame retardant suit on)

[jean]

13. Dean could bring substance back to the party - if he is shut out my

money will not go the the DNC.

[jswordy]

14. ewagner, it became evident to me during the elex...

...process that, should Bush lose, then a faction of the Republican party was going to lose internally. The neocons, who are actually a comparatively small segment, would have been run over by the more moderate factions of that party. Obviously, that did not happen and the neocons gained major strength following the elex.

On the other hand, it was obvious to me that a Kerry loss would then set up a major challenge to the Clinton-led faction of our own party that as a commonality has the tendency to always -- as others put it -- move the party to the center. Or, as I put it, always wants to move the party to the gray areas where contrast is least and reasons for the electorate to vote AGAINST us are fewest.

But in that gray area, the reasons for folks to vote FOR us are also drowned out. And they have been thoroughly underwater now for some time.

So I totally agree with your wonderful insight. I am waiting to see which portion of our party loses, and which wins.

[ewagner]

17. The clash was

obvious during the primaries and I, for one, was surprised when Kerry won Iowa. When I watched what was going on locally, I could see the factions squaring off and couldn't believe what was happening. I saw good friends leave the party and go/vote "green" and I saw friends marginalized by other party members because of their support for Dean.

We're at the cross roads.....it's going to get interesting.....

[annabanana]

34. good insight.........thanks.....n/t

[janx]

12. This will no doubt be entertaining.

But I think it will work when the votes are counted. Thanks for posting! :hi:

[paulk]

15. "as the entrenched powers try to stop change "

you are repeating the talking points of mediawhores like Howard Fineman and Cokie Roberts, whose agenda it is to spread divisiveness between Democrats - and/or to create a "news" story where there is none.

[janx]

19. Hertzgaard is not in that league, by any means.

Check out his books sometime. ;-)

[paulk]

20. The point to me is - I think it's a very bad idea to frame this

as an "us vs. them" battle, and that's what I see in the OP's post.

Dean's not my number one choice for DNC chair, but he's certainly preferable to most of the other candidates. I don't feel that threads that push this "stop Dean at all costs" thing are doing Dean or the Party any favors.

[Cheswick2.0]

28. It is happening , what good is ignoring it going to do?

Nothing will change if we don't shed light on the activities that have taken us from control of the government to no control over anything.

[jswordy]

29. Hiya! OP here! I hold forth not "us" vs. "them," but certainly...

...the in-power bureaucracy vs. those from outside it who wish to change it. Surely no one can dispute that. In universal terms, all change is met by resistance, the resistance being directly proportional to the amount of perceived future change.

As one who in my professional life has been through a corporate takeover and two changes of top management, I can assure you that the response you see in the party to Howard Dean at present is totally predictable and even quantifiable. It certainly is evident it is the resistance of the entrenched vs. the change agent, and that kind of reaction is universal in any situation.

Even change that ultimately turns out to be good provokes an initial stress reaction and a period of tension.

Now, as far as "stop Dean at all costs," the people who are pushing that are the DLC, a group of governors, other inside party pols, and insider bureaucrats, who oppose the change they perceive Dean to represent and wish the status quo to proceed so that they may guard their jobs, their turf and/or their sphere of influence. That, too, is entirely predictable.

Lastly, while many of us who are political junkies are following this closely, the average voter out there is not even on this page, let alone following this item. So I would postulate, then, that this is perhaps the ideal place to have this struggle, where it is relatively out of sight of the general voting public.

For me personally, Dr. Dean represents best my own political views. So, should he not become chair, I will wait until another opportunity to advance those views becomes apparent, and Dr. Dean at this juncture remains the best conduit for their advancement.

I am certain an opportunity will arise -- either way -- because Democracy for America is already established, whether Dean is chair or not.

That's not "us vs. them" either. Rather, it is a pragmatic way for me to seek advancement of my own fiscally conservative/socially progressive agenda.

[NashVegas]

16. My Advice: Refuse to Be Baited

Any honest DUer who was here between July 2003 and March 2004 knows exactly what I'm talking about.

When you see a poll that asks: "If Dean doesn't get the chair, will you stay in the party," or anything along those lines, especially if it's started by an anyone-but-Dean type, just don't answer it. Screw the loyalty oath, they don't need to know.

If you're a Dean supporter and someone comes into a pro-Dean thread and pisses all over the place, refuse them the pleasure of getting into a contest. Anti-Dean threads? If you know it's going to be a flame-fest, or already is, don't even bother.

[ewagner]

18. Good advice n/t

[ldf]

22. yes, good advice

which i will try to follow, but unfortunately i already pissed back in a couple of threads.

(pisser embarassingly handing the roll of bounty to the pissees)

:-)

[Gold Metal Flake]

26. Agreed! As they say in Usenet...

Don't Feed the Trolls!

[Liberty Belle]

21. Conyers just endorsed Dean. There's a thread elsewhere.

[American Tragedy]

24. Who exactly are the Stop Dean folks?

Have they come out openly opposed?

[Cheswick2.0]

27. the Clintons, the DLC and some governors and other party entrenched

some of them have come out openly and some have not.
Many of them are the same people who told Gore not to run in 2000.

[jswordy]

30. Read on...

...for some more info,, if you wish...

http://www.alternet.org/story/21043/

...and when I read George Will's column about how great Frost would be Sunday, I realized the ol' GOP Brer Rabbit trcik was still at work. How they fear Dean. It is amazing...

http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/211788-2276-021.html

Dean will head to Mississippi, regardless of chair vote outcome...

http://www.wtok.com/news/headlines/1200612.html

Hmmm...could it be the man WALKS HIS TALK about a red state outreach? Well, I first saw him in person in Huntsville, AL, during the primary season. THE PRIMARY SEASON. When he had nothing to gain by stooping there.

[jswordy]

31. Where did the Deaniacs go?

This has been around, worth reading if you never caught it the first time...

http://www.blueoregon.com/2004/12/where_did_the_d.html

[John_H]

32. Sigh. Why do DUers insist on creating ideological war when there is none

I know there are those who, being such afficianados of ideological warfare themselves, can't help but project ideology onto every conflict the cast their gaze upon, but the war between Dean and the forces arrayed agaisnt him have zero, zip, nada to do with either ideology or insider/outsider status.

There are people who will lose power, influence, and money if Dean becomes Chairman to be sure--but they're not worried in the least about being replaced with anti-establishment outsiders. They're worried about being replaced with establishment insiders who are not them. Just as the people who ran DFA and their consultants were longtime insiders, so too will be the people he brings in to help him run the DNC. i don't have a problem with that, but I suspect you might.

You don't need to take my word for it (since, while I like Dean, Deaniacs demand that you looooooooooove him with the doe eyed dreaminess that they do). Just take a look at the bios of his top staffers and consultants. Real outsiders, eh?

You might also want to take into account all the voices who are conspicuous by their absence. You'd think that all the big interests and donors (insiders by definition)would be going absolutely ape shit that a maverick anti-corporatist, ant-special interest outsider is pulling off coup at DNC. Why are they not going crazy? They're as flynnishly in with Dean as chair as they are anyone else.

If some folks would put down your Howard Dean action figures for a second and think, they might realize that arguing that the the DNC is going to be led by an outsider is as laughable as arguing that the next pope is going to be a Anglican Deacon. You may want it with all your heart, but it just ain't going to happen.

Why do I give a shit? Selfish reasons of course. have no problem with Dean's insider status at all. I just suspect many here might, and I don't want to have to listen to all the whining when Dean runs the DNC like a successful DNC chairman should.

[jswordy]

33. From the OP...my replies...

...so too will be the people he brings in to help him run the DNC. i don't have a problem with that, but I suspect you might.

No, I have no problem with that at all.

(since, while I like Dean, Deaniacs demand that you looooooooooove him with the doe eyed dreaminess that they do).

Your trite generalization is patently false. I don't demand you love Dean. In fact, I could not care less what you think of him, either way. It's irrelevant to me. "Doe-eyed dreaminess"? Uh, it is VERY evident that you don't know me at all. So quit pigeonholing.

You'd think that all the big interests and donors (insiders by definition)would be going absolutely ape shit that a maverick anti-corporatist, ant-special interest outsider is pulling off coup at DNC. Why are they not going crazy? They're as flynnishly in with Dean as chair as they are anyone else.

Agreed. I have always said, over and over here, that Dean is a pragmatist. I know the man. You need money to run campaigns. Period. However, the priorities would likely change in terms of percentage of small donors, etc. But Dr. Dean knows how to raise cash. If he did not, I would not want him as chair. See, I am a pragmatist, too. Next...

If some folks would put down your Howard Dean action figures for a second and think, they might realize that arguing that the the DNC is going to be led by an outsider is as laughable as arguing that the next pope is going to be a Anglican Deacon. You may want it with all your heart, but it just ain't going to happen.

Check my posts to see how many times I have said Dean will not become the chair. Sigh.

I don't want to have to listen to all the whining when Dean runs the DNC like a successful DNC chairman should.

You won't hear it from me. I'll be ecstatic! I know what Dean brings to the table, it is what I want, and I will be really happy if it happens. But it won't. Then DFA can go on its merry way, Dean will be free to run again in '08, etc. The chair is not the be-all and end-all for the movement, by any means. And the movement is larger than the man, believe that.

Now a personal note from me to you. I find that those who feel the need to be personally insulting usually do so from a lack of illuminating understanding that they can instead share. So please, until you have something of substance, refrain from attacking complete strangers via the electronic alley.