Isn't An 'Ownership Society' Actually The Definition Of Socialism?

[KittyWampus]

Socialism- where the citizenry own the means of production.

Isn't this a way to smack down Junior's plan? :think:

Or at the very least a way to attack their rhetoric?

I KNOW that socialism is not what Junior intends... Fascism (corporate control of production/government) is what they're all about.

But they GOP may have just stepped into a pile of crap using that term.

Any Democratic aides and interns out there might want to funnel this back to their bosses :)

[Bouncy Ball]

1. I've always cocked my head when I've heard him say that

because the FIRST thing that pops into my brain is "hey, he's talking about socialism! Rock on!"

To be more accurate, he should say he wants a "Corporate Ownership Society."

And we're almost there.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. He Means That Folks Should Own Things...

Like their own homes...


I am with Rousseau... I favor private property as long as everybody has some....

[Bouncy Ball]

6. I don't have a problem with that.

But ownership society does sound slightly socialistic the way it is worded. Just my opinion.

[KittyWampus]

9. Isn't Everyone Owning Their Own Homes Actually A Democratic Staple?

shouldn't Democrats just ask the GOP why they're belatedly jumping on the bandwagon then?

Anyhow, it's hard to own a home when you're facing bankruptcy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I Ignore Bush's Sloganeering...

Of course the Dems are for increased home ownership and expanding the middle class....


The Pugs want to go back to the days before the New Deal where everybody had to fend for themselves regardless of ability and where lots of folks fell short...

[ultraist]

11. Corporatacracy is not a form of Socialism

Private corps run/own the government in corporatacracy and in Socialism, the reverse is true.

[forgethell]

2. That sounds like a good idea.

Good frame!!!

:-)

[ultraist]

7. I don't think the frame works

Private ownership is the polar opposite of Socialism. Governments own the large corps in Socialist societies. I don't think anyone will equate "ownership" with "the government owns." The term is deeply rooted in private property ownership, particularly real estate/housing.

Red perspective on "Ownership Society"
http://www.cato.org/special/ownership_society/boaz.html

[KittyWampus]

10. IMO, What You've Described Is Communism.

[forgethell]

22. As I understand the

entire "frame" debate, we need to work to have the words indicate our point of view rather than the opposition's point of view. That may be the meaning now, but we want to change it. Am I missing something?

[pscot]

4. More like serfdom

n/t

[Larkspur]

5. Fascism is more like it

Fascism is when corporations own the government. Socialism is when government either controls or heavily regulates business.

[KurtNYC]

8. And if it is "National Socialism" then it is.....

Hmmm, what's that four-letter word for NAtional SocialiZIsm ?

[ultraist]

15. Communism is a form of Socialism

But what Bush is describing, is private ownership. Privatizing Social Security, eliminating social programs, and allowing PRIVATE corps to control the government. Extremist capitalism or Corporatacracy better describes Bush's position.

socialism

general term for the political and economic theory that advocates a system of collective or government ownership and management of the means of production and distribution of goods. Because of the collective nature of socialism, it is to be contrasted to the doctrine of the sanctity of private property that characterizes capitalism. Where capitalism stresses competition and profit, socialism calls for cooperation and social service.

[DBoon]

12. French Revolutionary petite bourgeois liberalism

Break up the estates, eliminate the vestige of feudalism, and give the peasants their land. Created a very conservative class of small proprietors (if I recall my history correctly).

Of course, the current reality is that we are no longer an agricultural society, and you cannot make owners of Americans by deeding feudal estates over to them (our last chance to do this was after the civil war).

Forcing some romanticized notion of small proprietorship into a society where almost everyone is a wage slave, where home-owners are heavily mortgaged, and where we are vitally dependent on collectively provided services is a formula for disaster.

[msongs]

13. the "ownership society" is where corporations own everything you have?

and then take it away from you for their financial gain, and when the economy tanks, you get screwed again because the corps will not help you out.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[donsu]

14. Socialism is not a bad word

it's only a bad word to the brainwashed smirk backers.

[KittyWampus]

17. Donsu, You've Just Proven My Point!

:)

I agree that Socialism in the mix is essential for a balanced society.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. a little socialism is good..

social security

medicare

medicaid

public education

farm subsidies

[ultraist]

24. I agree, a little socialism is good

Food stamps
Pell Grants
HUD

Social programs that provide shelter, food, and medical care for our children and create equal access are necessary.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. The Mixed Economy Works Best

eom

[freestyle]

16. I get very worried people like Bush talk about ownership society

Maybe it is paranoia, or maybe it is just history talking, but I can't shake this nagging feeling that Bush's ownership society looks a whole lot like the United States in about 1859. A few people owned, and many people were owned. From Bush's lips, ownership society sounds like slave society. Although the methods are refined to reduce the pain and death, the goal of having most people in servitude has not changed.

[NashVegas]

18. Depends

Wait and see the proposals for Privatized SS. If "preferred stock" (or non-voting shares) is selected as the way to go, your answer is 'no.'

[AlCzervik]

19. I think the whole notion of an "Ownership" society from chimpoleons view

is just a way to try and push the SS private accounts. Notice how quiet the Wall street firms are on this, they stand to make a shit load of money handling and eventually looting these accounts. These firms own Bush. They started this message a few years ago and now that phrase is said all the time, it's simple repetition, thats how they sell it. I mean really, does anyone really think that Bush gives a shit about middle and lower class "Folks" owning a home?

[ultraist]

23. "Ownership Society" is part of the propaganda campaign...

to eliminate social programs (especially HUD), outsource Social Security to private companies, and promote other "personal responsiblity" policies. It sounds appealing and pro American (Pursuit of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Property, Locke) but it is simply a campaign to promote the interests of the wealthy.

Two classes will be created: the wealthy and the poor

In a true "ownership" Society, social programs that create equal opportunity (such as Habitat for Humanity that allows low income individuals to own property or AA that opens the door to higher education) would be promoted, not eliminated. Bush does NOT promote social programs that lift people out of poverty or allow the working class to move into the middle class.

[KittyWampus]

25. So In The "Ownership Society" We Need To Ask Who Ultimately Owns

the infrastructure and who administers public programs?

[AlCzervik]

27. Starve the beast and then eat the poor