How do you feel about DU polls being linked to at other Democratic sites?

[Tom Rinaldo]

I don't think this question has directly been asked to all DU members. It certainly is a hot topic among some supporters of some candidates who have strong opinions about what is best for DU rregarding polls here and how people get to, or are asked to, participate in them.

[davidinalameda]

1. you forgot one choice

Who the hell cares?

I don't understand what the big deal is about people participating in EXTREMELY non-scientific polls here

[Tom Rinaldo]

2. No I didn't. It's the second to last option, or maybe the 5th

Depends on which wording you prefer.

[crispini]

3. Wow, some of your choices are kind of "push-polling,"

aren't they? Like, "I want the cover blown off this scandal." Assumption much?

I completely fail to see why anyone, including you, gives a flip about this. These polls mean nothing, and are seen by almost NOBODY in the general public (unlike internet polls done by news organizations, which sometimes get announced on-air or in the paper, and therefore are worth some attention.)

Why does this bother you so much? It certainly seems to be on your agenda lately.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. You have a point on the last option

But the first 9 do I think fairly cover the ground, and the last is really just rhetorical, and it is at the bottom. People can find a valid choice I believe before they get to it.

I said on the other poll I started that there has become an obsessive quality to how every time Clark ends up ahead in a DU poll some one brings up how Clark supporters are manipulating the process by asking people to flood over here to vote for Clark by leaving messages and links about that DU poll at Clark supporter sites.

It has almost gotten to the point that I am tempted to post links at Clark sites asking for people to come here and vote for someone other than Clark so we don't have to keep dealing with the crap every time Clark wins.

I am sorry that it is becoming tedious, I just have run out of ideas on how else to get this issue dropped. Usually the 2008 Presidential preference polls are started by someone other than a Clark supporter so we can't make these polls go away.

So I am asking DU members whether they feel that Clark supporters, or any other DUer's really, are doing anything wrong when they alert Democrats off site about a DU poll. It isn't only Clark supporters who have done it but we get the heat because we keep on "winning".

I am willing to use whatever influence I have with other Clark supporters to discourage them from mentioning polls here off site if most DUer's sincerely believe it is a problem to do so.

If on the other hand most DU'ers do not find any significant fault with it, or think it is actually appropriate, then I hope those who keep making an issue about it will leave it alone.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Cause Wes Clark supporters

are routinely accused of this when there is nothing else left to accuse Wes Clark of.

Because Clark supporters are being dissed in this way consistently, when DU is not supposed to be about trashing DUers themselves.

Because, I am tired of defending myself against stupid mindless accusations that shouldn't be.

Because there is hope that if we talk about this "trashing of Clark supporters"...calling them "Bots" and "infriltrators" and "Clarked polls"....and just put it on the table, we will eventually stop talking about this nonsense.

Because there is no better way to resolve a conflict but to meet it "head-on".

Thank you Tom for diligently attempting to get the whispered accusations out under the bright shining light. Maybe some of the Clark Supporters who have left DU because of these kinds of accusations will come back when they realize that they might get the same amount of respect as others.

I am used to be being discriminated against because I'm a woman, black and an immigrant. I never thought that I might be descriminated against because of who I supported among those who are supposed to be "like-minded" to a great extent.

I don't post at "FreeRepublic"...and if I did, I would expect the kind of mean spirited digs that are perpetuated against supporters of Wes Clark here at DU. But as a long enough member of DU, I demand a little respect....and respect for those who have not been members as long as I have.

It's really that simple. The issue is important to some, and not important to others. That's not a bad thing.

[crispini]

11. Ah. I guess I wasn't aware of the subtext.

But don't you feel that *everyone* gets digs in on the supporters of *all* the candidates? Seems to me I've seen a far amount of ragging on (and complaining about said ragging) WRT the Dean folks, the Kerry folks, etc. Isn't this all kind of the nature of internet forums? :shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Sure, but sometimes a certain dynamics gets to the point ...

...where it is hard to ignore, and it becomes impossible to just keep repeating the same answers to the same attacks. That point was finally reached for a lot of us with the fall out about Clark supporters not being real DUers that happened with the most recent 2008 poll someone started in this forum which Clark ended up being ahead in. A lot of the flak centered around the question posed with this poll, which is why I started it, along with the other one which sheds some light on who exactly are these Clark voters so many seem so suspicious of.

But the question is a sincere one. I know that some of the people who are unhappy with off site Democratic links are quite sincere in their feelings. I honestly felt, maybe I'm the one who isn't seeing things right, why not just put it out there for discussion?

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. A Democrat is a Democrat is a Democrat.

If someone does come from another Democratic site they still have to register to become a MEMBER. Do they not? :wtf: is the difference? Why should anyone care?

[Adelante]

7. Well, some care

They think it is unfair. I don't get it at all, but there are some DUers who see it that way. But most of the hassle is from people with an anti-Clark, anti-Clarkie agenda. That much is clear.

[DrGonzoLives]

8. I like cheese

Cheese is good - I like cheese on pretty much everything. Who is with me? :9

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. Well that depends

I love cheese, but whether or not it is good to eat depends on whether or not it enters my house from the front or back door.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I like cheese too!

After all, I am French!

But I don't like "Cheesy"....

[Guaranteed]

12. I think that if people are spending a good amount of time at DU,

there's nothing wrong with them participating in the polls.

But if they're coming over here JUST to vote in polls, there's something wrong, there.

People need to be solid DUers if they're going to vote in them.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. I think that's reasonable

although my own position might be people should either already be solid DU'ers or Democrats glad to find DU who plan to become solid DU'ers as a result. But it is hard to write that into a rule.

Anyway that is why I also started the other poll about how long have the people who voted for Clark in the recent DU 2008 polls been members here, so as to shed light on that since it was only Clark supporters who had their "DU credentials questioned" as a result of Clark coming out ahead in the biggest of those polls.

This issue about links to polls here from other Democrat sites (mostly Clark sites were complained about though Kerry sites were also mentioned) kept coming up, with an assumption that it is a bad thing to have happen. The argument kept going around in circles so I thought it might be informative if it was opened up to a broader cross section of DU members for comment than just those who were on the thread or two in question. It was getting way too bitter with the discusiion confined to several strong willed and opinionated people from both sides dominating it, and I could put myself into that group.

So for that reason, unless someone has a specific question for me, I think I will hold back from posting further on this thread and let others be heard. I know I have become too invested in this one, lol.

[Texas_Kat]

15. So how long (and how many posts do you have to post)

before you become a 'solid DUer.' Do one word posts count? If not, what length posts are valid? What happens if your post is deleted? Would it count?

Exactly what is a "solid DUer"?

Should polls be weighted so that member with a 1000 posts get more bang for their vote than those with few posts.

What about donors? Should their dollars buy some extra weight?

Should I go on?... or did you get the point?

If DU was a club, the 'regulars' could make the rules. So far, we haven't degenerated that far, yet....

[ClarkUSA]

16. I'm a newbie and I'd like to know, too, Texas_Kat

Is it anything like the height test on amusement parks?

[Guaranteed]

18. There's no test.

Would be nice if people posted around, though, read stuff other than about Clark.

Not saying you don't, of course.

[Guaranteed]

17. I'm not saying what it SHOULD be...

I'm just saying what it shouldn't be. And, I think I'm being very reasonable.

If you found this site and are posting around and enjoying yourself, plan on sticking around, you don't have anything to feel guilty about.

If you come over once or twice a month when you get linked to a poll on another site, that's messed up.

That's all. It's a fair position, and there are no "rules."

[FrenchieCat]

19. I think that

You sound ridiculous. Sorry, but that's how I see it. It's almost like the problem with Republicans and Democrats. The Republicans make the rules....and the Democrats have to adhere to them....or else. That's why we lose.....cause we want to make them happy...while they go round doing exactly what they want to do.

I simply don't think anyone should be cowed in doing anything other than what they want to do. DU has its own rules....and don't need members starting to make others. I'm starting to feel like DU is the old Soviet Union...with unelected party members making up rules as they go for their own convenience.

Maybe we should have a rule where people who don't like a candidate should just stay out of that candidate's thread. How about that one?

[Guaranteed]

20. For about the fifth time,

I don't think I'm making any "rules," here. Last I checked, I don't exactly have the power to DO that. And, even if I DID, I wouldn't.

In any case, I speak the truth. You don't like it because it's just that. Tough. You don't want to hear it, put me on iggy.

[FrenchieCat]

21. It appears that the "truth"

is relative.

But in reference to what you speak....don't think I really care a fig...cause I really don't, unless you back it up with substance.

AND I don't need to put you on ignore. I'm a big girl, and I can take "your truth" as you put it and turn it wrong side out with substance.

It's real good to know that you're real "tough"....and so Am I.

So in the end.....like they say in the Islands, where my daddy is from...."No problem....Sac a macher".

[melnjones]

22. I can at least understand your sentiment,

although IMO it would be ridiculous to make any sort of rule to this effect, as I'm pretty sure you know as well. Would I go out specifically looking for clarkies who aren't already part of DU or don't ever plan to be an active part of DU to vote in a poll? No. I'm not even sure that's possible. All the people I know who spend enough time online to visit DU and keep up with it at all are, well, people I've met online pretty much. I tell others that this is a great site, and really no one is interested. Not that they're not democrats. They just really have no desire to be here. And that's totally fine. However, I basically expect that very thing (scouting for others to vote) to happen, simply because that's how things seem to work, and although it may be annoying, there's not a thing I can do about it. People who do this are acting within their rights as members of DU, since there is no rule to the contrary. I honestly have not witnessed clarkies seeking out non-DU people to register and vote in DU polls. I think the claim that that's how Clark wins so many polls is ludicrous. However, does it happen that I'm unaware of? Possibly. Probably has happened in the past in some fashion, in our camp and in others. Big deal. Kinda annoying if it means your candidate loses in a poll, but not worth starting war over. And it's silly as well IMO to freak out about it and say that THAT is the reason X won the poll instead of my candidate. Very difficult to prove that that's the sole intention (seeking out NON-DU people). Anyway, that was the looooong way of saying that yes, I can at least understand your sentiment in the matter :pals:

[cestpaspossible]

23. Shouldn't this have been posted in the navel-gazing forum? nt