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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
AVID Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:54 AM
Original message
Today I feel less like a Democrat than ever
With so many Democrat Senators out buying trumpets to sound for condi and the * agenda - I'm one soul teetering on the fence of 3rd party.

Boxer should BREAK OFF - lead a party of her own!

Demapublican is sounding more real each day. HELP!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wait until Boxer, Kerry, Byrd, Kennedy, etc. get to speak. Ignore
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 11:46 AM by Pirate Smile
Joementum.

The real debate on Condi hasn't even started.

The Democrats are also taking a lot of crap today from the Republicans and the media for forcing this 9 hour debate so they can slam Condi and the BushCo's Iraqi War. So Lieberman isn't going along with it. Big surprise.

They show some backbone and there is still whining.

Why don't we appreciate it instead of slamming them anyway.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Force The Millers And Lieberman's Into The Demapublican Party
Regain control of the Democratic party by ostracizing the likes of Lieberman and Miller.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. The problem with doing this is
that you'd never again get a non-far-right government. The left wing core vote is not large enough to win without moderates, no matter how motivated it is, and if the Republicans don't have to fight for the centre it leaves them room to move still further right.

Joe Lieberman may overlap with the Republicans on some issues, but remember it's the far left of the Republicans he's overlapping with.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Republicrats have a hold on all branches of government
and both parties!
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Don't worry about parties
or candidates. Focus on issues. If you can make your issues, and your side of the issues resonate - if you can convince the politicians that there are votes to be had on your agenda they will trip over themselves to claim it. Politicians, or the vast majority of them, believe first and foremost in getting reelected.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Bingo! BINGO! PEOPLE READ THIS ONE!
If more people focused on this strategy, we'd get somewhere.
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks
Glad you approve...this is long but it's a draft of the statement we're working on for Earthlings United where we are trying to united activists and organizations around the world behind a common agenda...

On November 17 of this year I started Earthlings United (www.earthlingsunited.info) in the hope that people from around the world could come together and learn to understand one another’s point of view and work together to solve common problems. I think that it is time for a paradigm shift in the way we think about politics. We are used to thinking of ourselves as citizens of our communities, our cities, our state or province, and our country but if mankind is going to survive we need to start thinking of ourselves as citizens of the planet, and act accordingly. I believe that nearly all people in nearly all places (including many who voted for Bush share some common values and that those values represent the real mainstream, the real ‘silent majority’. I also believe that most of the worlds leaders are acting against these values, whether they refer to themselves as left or right, most of them have more in common with Bush than they do with say Martin Luther King, the point in our favor is that they are divided and competing against one another and if people of good faith the world over unite we can defeat them all.

The New Paradigm

We have gotten used to a certain mode of thinking about politics. We think of ourselves in terms of our role in our neighborhood, our city, our province or state, and our country. We think of the battle in terms of the left (left wing parties, groups and organizations) vs. the right (right wing groups, parties and organizations.) And, of late, we have gotten used to losing. That is because the paradigm has shifted and we are stuck in the past. In order to be effective we have to shift our thinking on both of the grounds mentioned above. We have to add another level, the global level, to our thinking about where and when we act and we have to redefine who is on the left and who is on the right.

Universal Values

The values of the left, if you examine them in the broadest possible terms, are the values of the vast and overwhelming majority of humanity. Virtually all the people on this planet share some common goals, they want

decent housing,
enough food to eat
clean air and water
a decent education for their children
to practice their religion, or lack their of, without persecution
to speak their mind without fear of retribution,
to live and raise their children in peace, without fear of violence, or repression
to believe that they can improve their situation for themselves and their children

These goals are so universal, so common to all people that even the most brutal dictators could not publicly say they oppose them and they are and always have been, in various manifestations, the values and goals of the left.

A United Left Vs. a United Right

This is how we must define ourselves, in terms of these goals and objectives. We must not just want these things for ourselves, but for everyone on this planet. There is no longer any reason why these goals cannot be accomplished. The resources exist to make these goals a reality for all of humanity. The downside is that it will mean a dip in the standard of living for many in the west, but not a substantial one. There may be less money for digital cable, for wide screen televisions, people may have to drive smaller cars, or take public transit but what will be surrendered is tiny compared to what will be gained.

On the other side of the coin we must redefine the ”right” as those who oppose these values and goals: Large corporations who see only profit and not the affect of that profit, power mad politicians be they elected, ordained or the beneficiary of a coup. Anyone who opposes these goals, or would deny them to anyone is our foe, the new right, regardless of the political label they attach to their name. Fortunately for us, the ideology of the new right calls for competition, all of these corporations and international leaders are competing against one another for wealth and power and so if we are united we can take advantage of their divisions to bring them down.

Globalization and International Citizens

One of the reasons that we, the left as defined above, are routinely losing, to the right as defined above is that we have spent a good deal of time and energy fighting the forces of globalization. The reality, like it or not, is that globalization has happened. Those with power and wealth operate internationally and so long as the citizens of the planet remain divided into camps by imaginary borders we will continue to lose, they will strike where resistance is the weakest until there is no one left to resist at all.

Many believe that these borders protect them, and restrict them from affecting change beyond them. This is a mode of thinking that belongs to another time. What happens in your community and your country, no matter how large or small, has an affect, for good or ill, the world over. What happens in the rest of the world has an affect, for good or ill, on you. You have a stake in what happens, regardless of where it happens and you have a responsibility to those beyond your borders for the affect you have on them.

When the left has worked together we have achieved victories, or at least had an impact on events. Modern technology including mass media and the internet have given us an opportunity to communicate with people the world over, to share ideas, and to effect change. The international movement against apartheid in South Africa helped bring an end to it. The international focus on Tiananmen square in 1989 put China on notice that the world was watching, and without it the crackdown might have been much worse. In February 2003 millions of people in 600 cities around the globe took to the streets simultaneously to oppose a US attack on Iraq. Even more recently, in response to the South Asian Tsunami and unprecedented international response was launched, this must be taken as a victory for the left, as defined above, because it was in response to the universal values listed that this response came – a demand so loud and clear that even George W. Bush of the US and Ariel Sharon of Israel felt compelled to go along.

None of these things has achieved the desired effect completely, but all show the power of a united global citizenry working together. I call on those of you with the time and the inclination to gather with me and begin to prepare a global, united front to achieve peace, justice and a clean, healthy environment in which to live for all people in all places on this planet.

Links:

Home: www.earthlingsunited.info
Message Board: http://earthu.proboards38.com/index.cgi
Main Yahoo Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthU/

Focus Groups:

Steering http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUSteering/ - The steering committee for Earthlings United

General Discussion http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUF1/ Same as the main board but smaller membership - fewer messages.

Actionable Items http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUAction/
Africa http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUAfrica/
Arts and Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUArts/
Asia http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUAsia/
Environment http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUEnv/
US National Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUUS/
International Human Rights http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUHR/
Middle East Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUME/
Canada http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUCanada/
Europe http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUEurope/
the Democratic Party http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUDem/
the Republican Party http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUGOP/
Student Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUStudents/
Peace In Iran http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUPeaceIran
Latin America & Caribbean http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthULatin/
Oceania http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUOceania/
International Indigenous People http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUIndigenous/
Media http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUMedia/
Women's Issues http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthUWomens/
Religion & Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarthURP/











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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Read "A More Perfect Union" By Jessie Jackson Jr. For Good Insights
On similar strategies.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. BUT... this strategy leads to a decision denounced by many here...
That decision is whether to continue to focus on issues come election time, or to abandon your issues temporarily in order to direct your energies toward helping specific candidates get elected.

For many here at DU, talk of treating elections as just an exercise in pulling a lever, so as to not take away from other work you are doing on specific issues, is considered to be heresy. Personally, I'm of the "issues" camp -- but I will be branded as a heretic for stating that perhaps the anti-war movement should not have abandoned its momentum in throwing itself behind a candidate who promised only to "fight the war better" as opposed to ending it.

So, when it comes down to this kind of choice, which do you, personally, support? Is it quite so black-and-white WRT issues, parties and candidates now? Or did it suddenly get just a bit cloudy? Furthermore, if the candidate who supports my personal issues happens to be from the Green Party, while the Democrats mostly don't support my issues, is it OK to vote for that third party?
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I can see supporting a candidate
If they are already carrying your issues - otherwise you need to become more vocal on your issues during an election to help shape the debate. If one of the candidates decides to support your issues then you are helping them get elected (by fighting for your issues). If they don't support your issues then why bother.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Are you feeling better yet? Even Bayh will vote NO. Who the
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 01:06 PM by Pirate Smile
hell would of thought he would do that. Dayton riped her big time. Kennedy, Levin, etc. and we haven't even got close to the end.
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