NeoProgressives or Neo-Liberals what does that term mean to you?

[xultar]

I've been watching DU for the past month. I was and I am STILL not happy about what I see about the incivility that has grown and festered. This has nothing to do with the Mods. This has everything to do with how we relate to one another.

I've seen the terms NeoProgressives and NeoLiberals at other (progressive and Liberal)message boards and blogs. I've even seen here an attempt to coin a NeoDemocrat term.

I'd like you to tell me what the term NeoProgressive or NeoLiberal means to you. It appears that every one thinks that the Term Neo when applied to any term is NEGATIVE when all it really means is new and different.

Before you answer, consider that everything in our world has a direct mirror image. That is what makes the world go round. If you look at the very structure of our universe we have matter and anti-matter so, it stands to reason that where NeoCons are concerned there is a direct mirror image and it could very well be the NeoProgressive. Two sides of the same coin fighting each other and everyone else with equal contempt, anger, and frustration.

Just something to think about while you're beating each other over the head.

[Walt Starr]

1. Neodemocrats = DLC = Paleorepublicans

'nuff said.

[kitkat65]

4. Soon to become Neoimperialists

Coming to a country near you!

[On the Road]

2. Unfortunately, NeoLiberal Has Its Own Meaning,

relating to free trade, which has nothing to do with what Americans think of as liberalism.

For the neocons, I'm coming to prefer "neocolonialists." Much more appropriate.

[xultar]

6. I require detail on the free trade reference.

Main Entry: neo·lib·er·al
Pronunciation: -'li-b(&-)r&l
Function: noun
: a liberal who de-emphasizes traditional liberal doctrines in order to seek progress by more pragmatic methods
- neoliberal adjective

[AP]

8. Check out Lisa Duggan's the Twilight of Equality.

She explains the meaning of "neoliberal." It is an attitude about global trade.

[xultar]

24. Thank you very much AP. I will give it a read. I'm always interested

in growing my knowledge. I'm not sure but I think it was you who pointed me to some PNAC resources. Again, thanks, I learned a lot.

[On the Road]

21. There's a Lot of History There

I've heard two things about the "liberal" in "neoliberal": (1) that it refers to liberalizing trade, and has nothing to do with political liberalism, and (2) that it is a form of political liberalism that sees free markets rather than government intervention as the best means of achieving the social goals of liberalism.

If (2) is accurate, the social goals seem to have been forgotten and the movement usurped by Darwinian capitalists.

Here's one reference:


A Short History of Neoliberalism
By Susan George
Conference on Economic Sovereignty in a Globalising World
March 24-26, 1999

---snip

In 1945 or 1950, if you had seriously proposed any of the ideas and policies in today's standard neo-liberal toolkit, you would have been laughed off the stage or sent off to the insane asylum. At least in the Western countries, at that time, everyone was a Keynesian, a social democrat or a social-Christian democrat or some shade of Marxist. The idea that the market should be allowed to make major social and political decisions; the idea that the State should voluntarily reduce its role in the economy, or that corporations should be given total freedom, that trade unions should be curbed and citizens given much less rather than more social protection--such ideas were utterly foreign to the spirit of the time. Even if someone actually agreed with these ideas, he or she would have hesitated to take such a position in public and would have had a hard time finding an audience.

---snip

Let me stress how important it is to understand that this vast neo-liberal experiment we are all being forced to live under has been created by people with a purpose. Once you grasp this, once you understand that neo-liberalism is not a force like gravity but a totally artificial construct, you can also understand that what some people have created, other people can change. But they cannot change it without recognising the importance of ideas. I'm all for grassroots projects, but I also warn that these will collapse if the overall ideological climate is hostile to their goals.

So, from a small, unpopular sect with virtually no influence, neo-liberalism has become the major world religion with its dogmatic doctrine, its priesthood, its law-giving institutions and perhaps most important of all, its hell for heathen and sinners who dare to contest the revealed truth. Oskar Lafontaine, the ex-German Finance Minister who the Financial Times called an "unreconstructed Keynesian" has just been consigned to that hell because he dared to propose higher taxes on corporations and tax cuts for ordinary and less well-off families.


http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/econ/histneol.htm

[xultar]

25. WOW! Thanks soooo much for the info. This is one thing I love about

DU. The willingness to pass along helpful information to help us learn and increase our knowledge base. It helps me to frormulate my strategy on what I need to do as an individual to help the right candidates win in 2006 and 2008.

[KittyWampus]

28. Xultar, Liberal Means Unregulated. Outside The US, Liberalism Refers

to Economics... unregulated markets...

here in the US it refers to unregulated/libertarian social system.

[Cheswick2.0]

3. While I am sure you would prefer we all salute and fall into formation

you are probably going to have to put up with free speech here at DU.
You aren't anymore civil than anyone else. So what's with the lecture?

As far as what Neo-progressive means: What Walt said.

[xultar]

12. Nope frankly I don't really care what you do. n/t

[sui generis]

5. it's actually kind of non-liberal to stick to a label so carefully

If you think about it, to be progressive or liberal means being adaptive and dynamic, and you can't be that way when your talking points and political views become very narrow and very "categorized" as neo whatever or radical whatever or "centrist" or name your liberal category.

I think it's probably not a good idea to splinter ourselves that way.

[xultar]

9. But we seem to be so quick to apply it to others..NeoDem...

please I'd love more detail.

[sui generis]

19. well, the other side is a very fixed set of narrow values

I have no problem calling them anything, and a few things that might even get me tombstoned here.

Mostly, conservatives today are about removing individual freedoms and protections and giving unlimited freedoms and protections to corporations and big business. They have some very narrow philosophiesin this regard which can be summed up as, "me, me, me, and nobody but me".

Add to that they're righteous about not having to pay taxes, about not being associated with the "charity", and about blindly following their leader just so long as they or their children don't have to die in a foreign war and so long as they can write off their Hummers and afford to put gas into it to drive it to work every day with reduced emmissions standards, and just so long as they won't have to pay any taxes to keep government functioning at all if they can help it.

It's easy, a liberal is everything they ain't.

[AP]

7. Neoliberalism is an attitude about global capitalism. It means you

believe that markets should be liberalized and deregulated. It doesn't mean you're a "new liberal." It's basically interchangeable with "neoconservative."

I hope that neoporgressives (whatever that might be) are taking on the neoliberals.

[GreenArrow]

10. it means corporatists i.e. fascists

anti-democratic, anti-life, advocating the commoditization of everything.

[izzybeans]

11. It means that people

too young to remember the open biggotry of the south or the progressive values of the left need an identity. neo-"something already existing". we are all destined to be neo if we identify with a set of beliefs or post if we feel the need to distance ourselves from somone or something. So we have the neo-con biggots and the neo-progressive liberal. And then the neo-marxist, neo-liberal, neo-modernist, neo-pomos, neo-post-neoism. it's a deliciously decadent cycle.

[sui generis]

20. agreed -

hair splitting labels are a waste of time and more appropriate to conservative thinking than liberal thinking.

[izzybeans]

26. I like your user name-

does it reference social facts or is it more general?

[Robbien]

13. The problem here is that there are a few DLCers who create bait threads

whose only purpose is to create strife. Those DLCers are very vocal and keep pushing the DLC/Roemer/Scaife line.

The best way to deal with that is just do not engage.

[xultar]

15. No they are not. I've been watching most of the thresd created are

anti-dlc.

That is a fact. Dean himself said and I agree don't worry about them. They'll fall based on their actions. WE need to worry about ourselves. Yet we don't. Why is that?

[Robbien]

18. We must see threads at differently, but in either case you are right

Progressives/liberals need to join together around a common agenda. For that we need a leader we can respect. Without a clear agenda most of us can support, we are a bunch of chickens running around the barnyard scratching at our own individual patches of dirt.

At the top of th current leadership's agenda is more troops and insurance for birth control drugs! Yea right, that's an agenda we all can support which speaks to our souls. Not!

[xultar]

23. Does the DLC really matter in the scheme of things. WE appear to

spend sooooooooooooooooo much more time arguing about it than actually trying to formulate a message or to focus on a few causes.

Just between you and me...
Responses to this thread were pretty funny. They think I want us to all fall in line or into formation. That I'm trying to stifle free speech. WTF. Seems to me they want to attack one another and yell Fuck You to every one. If that is the free speech you want then knock yourselves out. What does it get you except a deleted post?

What I'm advocating is the same thing Dean wants and they are thinking that I'm speaking against them in some way. I really don't get that.
Dean wanted everyone to fall in line behind him. HE wanted everyone in lock step on his issues. They all fell in line behind the bat on his campaign site. So, why can't we fall in line behind one another? Is falling in line soooooo bad? Is focusinng on a few key issues sooooooooooo bad? When I say let's work together it is bad. When Dean says it then it is the Gospel. WTF is up with that?

Just between you and me, again, what I can't figure out is why is beating one another over the head a preference to beating the NeoCons over the head?

Sometimes I just want to scream to everyone... HEY WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

FORGET THE DLC. FORGET WHO YOU THINK ARE DLC. Why not work against the right. If the DLC people are really republicans then they will fall along with the right in our fight against them.

I just find it sooooo effin funny.

[KittyWampus]

29. Is This Sarcasm? Are You Serious? DLC'ers Create Bait Threads?

I just keep thinning the herd here....

[AntiCoup2K4]

34. Technically they hijack more threads than they create.

But they've been busy in here lately bashing a certain candidate for DNC chair.

[Wiley50]

14. Neo isn't negative at all

He's the hero of The Matrix

[xultar]

16. That's what I'm trying to say. Yet everyone seems to think it is negative

why is that?

[IrateCitizen]

17. Neoconservatism and neoliberalism are the military and economic arms...

... of neocolonialism.

That statement was made by Indian author and activist Arundhati Roy, and I think it most aptly sums up what neoliberalism and neoconservatism are all about. Roy has better insight into this than any of us, because she has been on the receiving end of both policies, being a citizen of a "developing" country.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. I'm more or less in agreement with IC

Neo-conservatism is raw military and economic imperialism couched in right wing populist terms.

Neo-liberalism is disguised military and economic imperialism with lip service to traditional Democratic social values.

[bemildred]

27. Nothing. It's another bullshit unwarranted generalization. nt

[Just Me]

30. Nothing. They are "make-up" words which have no substance.

They are words intended to cloud human language and wreak havoc on the human mind, heart and spirit.

Those words grate, mince and chew the fundamental common existence we all share as a member of one race: the human race.

Those words are created to divide that one race,...and I hate those words.

[AntiCoup2K4]

35. If you are so concerned about the unity of the "one" human race...

....then how can you just write off the fact that the neoconservatives and neolibs who you claim do not exist, have effectively declared war on 1/6th of that "one human race" : namely the folks that pray in a tradition started by a dude named Mohammed.

It is the neocons who ARE dividing humanity, not us. They who slaughter and then lie about it in the name of greed. They are the ones reaking havoc on the human mind, heart and spirit.

To want unity of mankind is admirable. To not recognize that there are those deliberately dividing is unwise. Believe me, if you could wish such people out of existence, the prayers and meditations from DU alone would have counted for something over the last 4 years.

[meow2u3]

31. "Neoprogressive" is my coinage

I defined neoprogressive to mean one who belives we should balance individual freedoms with the sensibilites of the larger community; a center-left populist who advocates a revival of New Deal economics; race-neutral, class-based affirmative action to protect all poor people from discrimination in housing, jobs, education, etc.; while either shying away from, or defusing, hot-button wedge issues by pointing out the ulterior motives of such issues as abortion, gays, guns, religion, etc.

A neoliberal is typically fiscally conservative (pro-corporate, for free trade) and socially liberal, whereas a neoprogressive is fiscally liberal (pro-union, spend on the poor and tax the rich) and socially moderate-conservative.

[Tinoire]

32. Neoliberalism: origins, theory, definition

I'm glad you asked that question. I didn't realize until you asked, that yes, we do throw a lot of terms around without defining them for everyone. I book-marked this thread the day you started it so thanks. You got some excellent answers but thought I'd throw this explanation in too:


Neoliberalism: origins, theory, definition

Since the late 1990's activists have used the word 'neoliberalism' for global market-liberalism ('capitalism') and for free-trade policies. In this sense it is now widely used in South America. Some people use the word interchangeably with 'globalisation'. But free markets and free trade are not new, and this use of the term ignores developments in the advanced economies. The analysis here compares neoliberalism with its historical predecessors. Neoliberalism is not just economics: it is a social and moral philosophy, in some aspects qualitatively different from liberalism. Last changes 11 November 2004.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The definition of neoliberalism presented here is more abstract than usual - but it also suggests that neoliberalism has been underestimated. A widely quoted example of those 'usual definitions' is What is "Neo-Liberalism"? by Elizabeth Martinez and Arnoldo García:

Neo-liberalism is a set of economic policies that have become widespread during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is rarely heard in the United States, you can clearly see the effects of neo-liberalism here as the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer....Around the world, neo-liberalism has been imposed by powerful financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank and the Inter- American Development Bank....the capitalist crisis over the last 25 years, with its shrinking profit rates, inspired the corporate elite to revive economic liberalism. That's what makes it 'neo' or new.

(snip)

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/neoliberalism.html


The main points of neo-liberalism include:

THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow the wealth didn't trickle down very much.


CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.


DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminish profits, including protecting the environment and safety on the job.


PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.


ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if they fail, as "lazy."

Around the world, neo-liberalism has been imposed by powerful financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank. It is raging all over Latin America. The first clear example of neo-liberalism at work came in Chile (with thanks to University of Chicago economist Milton Friedman), after the CIA-supported coup against the popularly elected Allende regime in 1973. Other countries followed, with some of the worst effects in Mexico where wages declined 40 to 50% in the first year of NAFTA while the cost of living rose by 80%. Over 20,000 small and medium businesses have failed and more than 1,000 state-owned enterprises have been privatized in Mexico. As one scholar said, "Neo-liberalism means the neo-colonization of Latin America."

In the United States neo-liberalism is destroying welfare programs; attacking the rights of labor (including all immigrant workers); and cutting back social programs. The Republican "Contract" on America is pure neo-liberalism. Its supporters are working hard to deny protection to children, youth, women, the planet itself -- and trying to trick us into acceptance by saying this will "get government off my back." The beneficiaries of neo-liberalism are a minority of the world's people. For the vast majority it brings even more suffering than before: suffering without the small, hard-won gains of the last 60 years, suffering without end.

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalDefined.html

[AntiCoup2K4]

33. The prefix "neo" has come to mean basically "counterfeit"

As the neoconservatives are fascists who care very little for conservative ideas such as fiscal constraint and smaller government.

While the "neoliberals" are actually neocons posing as liberals while voting for the neocon agenda, forming their own version of PNAC and calling it PPI, and pretending it's somehow "better".

New and different isn't an accurate description. New and DECEPTIVE is. Neither neocons or neolibs give a flying fuck about traditional American values of ANY political party.