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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:11 AM
Original message
A letter from Michael Moore to Dean supporters
This just came in my email:

January 20, 2004

Dean Supporters, Don't Give Up ... from Michael Moore

This morning I picked up the newspaper and read this quote from a young woman who had worked as a volunteer for Howard Dean in Iowa:

"All the phone-calling we did, we'd have people who’d say, 'I'm a Dean supporter, I’m a Dean supporter,’" said Kelly Chambers, Dr. Dean's captain in Precinct No. 83. "But when it came to caucus night, we only had 11 people show up for Dean. It just seems like all my hard work's been for nothing."

I was crushed when I read this. Her despair, her sense of "what's the use?" was something I'm sure many Dean supporters are feeling today. I can see, just from surfing the web, the debilitating affect the landslide loss in Iowa had on so many people who had placed so much hope in the man who created a grassroots revolution and was unrelenting in his attacks on Bush and on the war. If having the most volunteers, the most money (all small contributions from average citizens), and the boldest message can't win an election, say Dean's followers, then we might as well just give up.

As one who does not support Dean, I would like to say this to you: DON'T GIVE UP. You have done an incredible thing. You inspired an entire nation to stand up to George W. Bush. Your impact on this election will be felt for years to come. Every bit of energy you put into Dr. Dean's candidacy was -- and is -- worth it. He took on Bush when others wouldn't. He put corporate America on notice that he is coming after them. And he called the Democrats out for what they truly are: a bunch of spineless, wishy-washy appeasers who have sold out the working people of America. Everyone in every campaign owes you and your candidate a huge debt of thanks.

Though I am backing Clark because I personally prefer his manner and his stands on everything from jailing polluters to taxing the rich (not to mention his electability), the worst thing that could happen now would be for the Dean revolution to come to an end. If you have backed or worked for Dean, you must understand the remarkable things you have done and what you have accomplished:

1. 55% of those who voted in Iowa on Monday said that this was the FIRST TIME they had ever voted in a Caucus!!! That is a STUNNING statistic. Although the vast majority ended up going for Kerry and Edwards, I am convinced that the electorate in that state was invigorated by the Dean campaign -- whose entire message was that you CAN make a difference. Just the fact that you have people thinking this way is a gift you have given to America, a nation where the majority, in the past, have given up and refused to vote. I believe that you and Howard Dean will be credited with waking up a near-dead voting public. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

2. On top of first time voters, the overall turnout in Iowa was DOUBLE what it was four years ago. DOUBLE! To double the number of Democrats who showed up in Iowa this week means that many independents, Greens, and former Republicans have seen enough of the mess created by George W. Bush. And it was Dean in Iowa who, until the attack ads against him began, focused his whole campaign on educating voters on what the Bush presidency has truly done to America. The number one reason people gave last night for coming out in zero-degree weather in Iowa, ahead of the war and the economy and health care, was "Bush must go." This can only mean good things for the turnout come next November.

3. The number of young people -- the age group with historically the lowest percentage of voters -- also doubled on Monday night. Again, you have to credit the Deaniacs for this. Thousands of young people from around the country poured into Iowa to knock on doors and talk politics. Although Kerry and Edwards got the youth vote, I believe it was the Dean youth who made it cool to be political again, and the effect of their enthusiasm was contagious.

4. 75% of those voting in Iowa said that they are "anti-war." And who do we have to thank for that? Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich. They put the war and its illegality and immorality on the Iowa map in this election year. They pushed Kerry and the rest to take strong anti-war stands (even though Kerry, et. al. had initially voted for the war). Some changed their positions, which we welcomed (Edwards and Kerry voted against the $87 billion Bush got to continue the war). Although Kerry got the most anti-war votes and Dean and Edwards split the rest, Dean was the man who converted them. Those who chugged through the streets and farms of Iowa preaching peace deserve our gratitude.

Of course, the problem here, as I pointed out with all due respect in my last letter, is that for whatever reason, Dean himself is not going to give middle America the comfort level they need in choosing who they want in the Oval Office. Dean, as good and as right as he is, just isn't the man, on a personal level, to get Job One done: Bush Removal. That's OK. Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land. But he was still Moses.

So, we now have two Democratic candidates at the top who voted for the war. We have two at the bottom who have been anti-war -- Kucinich, who got 1% of the vote in Iowa and Al Sharpton who got 0%. And then we have Howard Dean who, after a year of campaigning in every Iowa county (where it seemed practically everyone met him at least once), could only scrape together 18% of the delegates.

And then there is Wesley Clark, who is backed by George McGovern, the anti-Vietnam War presidential candidate and the conscience of a generation. He said Clark is the one candidate whose plan will end the war and bring the troops home. Clark may be, now, the anti-war vote's best chance. I believe he is.

But in the meantime, let's tip our hats to Deaniacs everywhere. They've set the tone and the bar and have jump-started the movement to save our country. Good friends in the Dean camp, please don't give up. We need you now and we will need you in November. And, to Precinct 83 Captain Kelly Chambers, all your hard work has NOT been in vain. We cannot win without you.

One year from today, at 12:01 PM, Bush leaves office. But only if the revolution you ignited continues beyond this week.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well, all right, Michael Moore!
:toast:
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. right on.
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Moore said he supported Clark a couple of days ago.
I'm a Clark supporter myself but if Moore's starting to waffle then I say keep your support Mike.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. He's not waffling. He is encouraging the many young folks who
worked for Dean. I think it's the honorable thing to do.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I didnt get the impression that he was waffling.
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 12:18 AM by bhunt70
He's just looking at the bigger picture. He may have a dog in the race, but he still loves the race.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. No, he's being kind
I don't know if it will be appreciated coming from him, but I do think he means well.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. And smart.
We need activists from all the candidates to band together and support the eventual nominee.
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Toot Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. He still does support Clark. He was just giving us "Deaniacs" a letter of
support.:eyes:
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clarknyc Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Moore's not waffling!
This is just a recognition of the hard work the Dean volunteers did for the campaign. Nothing more. Well, maybe a little bit of recruitment for Clark if Dean does withdraw down the road.

I appreciate Moore's statement.
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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. Read the letter
He still supports Clark, but he's big enough, gracious enough, man enough, to give Dean and his supporters the props they so richly deserve:

As one who does not support Dean, I would like to say this to you: DON'T GIVE UP. You have done an incredible thing. You inspired an entire nation to stand up to George W. Bush. Your impact on this election will be felt for years to come. Every bit of energy you put into Dr. Dean's candidacy was -- and is -- worth it. He took on Bush when others wouldn't. He put corporate America on notice that he is coming after them. And he called the Democrats out for what they truly are: a bunch of spineless, wishy-washy appeasers who have sold out the working people of America. Everyone in every campaign owes you and your candidate a huge debt of thanks.

...
Of course, the problem here, as I pointed out with all due respect in my last letter, is that for whatever reason, Dean himself is not going to give middle America the comfort level they need in choosing who they want in the Oval Office. Dean, as good and as right as he is, just isn't the man, on a personal level, to get Job One done: Bush Removal. That's OK. Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land. But he was still Moses.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
44. This Dean supporter appreciates it.
It's a worthy fight - Job One: BUSH REMOVAL!

At this point, I'm almost to the point of not caring WHO it is, as long as I can vote for WHOEVER it is AGAINST BUSH. If it's Dean, WONDERFUL! If it's somebody else, then I'm voting for whoever it is.

But I think Michael Moore made some excellent points, and some extremely welcome ones. I'm glad he recognizes this. He's absolutely correct. The seeds may be sprouting for Kerry and Edwards, but it's Dean who got the tractor out to the field and cleared the ground.
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
65. I agree 100%.
n/t
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
88. And Clark will be the fertilizer n/t
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
62. I agree
These campaigns have gotten bitter and personal and it's only helping the Republicans. We need to distinguish between respectful disagreement and unfair characterizations of others' campaigns.

This letter was badly needed to help mend the fence between the Clark and Dean people.
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Loren645 Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. Relax Yo... I think Moore is just a nice person.
And he doesn't like to see dispirited people.
And this election is way too important for folks to
be dispirited now, or in a few months.

We don't have that luxury.

He's rallying the ABB troops.
And he's stating facts. Iowa doesn't mean that much.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
61. he's not waffling
He's recognizing that the Dean people have built an important organization and have accomplished some good things.

He's showing some sense, recognizing that the Dems need the energy of the Dean people this year.

I appreciate it, and I'm sorry I was angry at him. It was thoughtful of him to do this.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. well said!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. thanks moore
"//';
':dem:
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shoopnyc123 Donating Member (997 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. After the SOTU, I'd take even Lieberman...
...it brought me to my senses...
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
66. ABBorL
Can't quite go that far
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oxymoron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. Good on Michael!
Well said.
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Very well said.
Dean supporters should be proud of what they did and should keep doing what they're doing. Dean's still in this going into New Hampshire.
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Bok_Tukalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. Penance for Nader?
<eom>
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
79. There is a "repentant Nader voter" movement afoot.
Seen it in this week's Newsweek.
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fluffyslayer Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well spoken, Michael! -nt-
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Michael Moore, again, proves himself
a class act...Well said
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. Dean will probably win anyway
Isn't Dean still top in all the state primary polls, and leading in organization and money? If he doesn't self destruct, how can anyone beat him?

The only chance the anti-Dean crowd has is to start registering voters ASAP, just a few months until Super Tuesday.

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pasadenaboy Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. How to respond to other candidates with class and dignity
I'm sure my fellow Dean supporters appreciate the kind words and support from Mr. Moore. Thank you Micheal.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Dean's doing the dirty work. He's the lightning rod.
He's doing everyone else a great favor, and they badmouth him for it.

I dunno, Michael. We're feeling pretty fucking unappreciated right now.
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robsul82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
22. Mike proves himself all class yet again.
Wish he realized "never held elected office before" is a lot more of a problem than "from Vermont," but oh well. He's a true patriot.

Later.

RJS
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
89. Did Mike mention Vermont?
more of a problem? Why is "Vermont" a "problem"?
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
23. Agrreed ... and well said
I tried to express a similar view last night, but you have done a much better job, man. As a firm Clark supporter, I say to my Dean supporting buds, don't give in too soo, too easily ... vigorous debate is good for the process, and it is premature to count your guy out in any event. And if your man doesn't win, you have still accomplished a major shift in scope the debate. You folk have been a major factor in setting the agenda.

Respects,

Robg
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
24. Keep in mind, Clark wants to cannibalize the Dean machine
for his own purposes.
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Toot Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Exactly my view on that letter.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
63. that may be true
However, we have some influence and can use it.

I still think MM is a good man who believes in what he is doing. It was clearly a sincere letter.
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LoneStarDem Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #24
37. Sigh...
Must everything be nefarious? Can't a guy just say "Chin up!"? You know, not everyone is in this for a holy war.
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atre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. If any candidate other than Dean gets the nomination, they'll want to...
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 01:39 AM by atre
co-opt the Dean Machine. I'm not currently a Dean supporter, but it is remarkable what he's been able to do- the way he's been able to energize so many people in an age of skepticism and apathy. What Democratic candidate wouldn't want Dean's warriors working for them?
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #24
46. I don't think so
As a Clark supporter I ran this all through my brain and I think it will hurt Clark more if Dean stays in the picture. Am I wrong when I say that most Dean people would come over to the Clark camp? It was the Dean people who made the Dean/Clark ticket famous. I could be wrong.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
86. I don't think they will
I'm also unfamiliar with the "famous" "Dean/Clark" ticket. When Dean HQ surveyed me recently, I let them know I didn't want Clark anywhere near the ticket.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
48. Forgot this part
What I forgot to say was that a viable Dean in New Hampshire puts Clark in Third instead of second if Kerry wins. Ouch! I think Moore was being sincere. I use to be a Dean supporter and we all appreciate what Dean did and thats just a fact. It was inspirational and awesome and it's still alive. See, Moore almost has me wanting to get back on board. I hope Dean will start talking more about his vision of what America will be like with him as president. If he can start to paint that picture then watch out. I will keep my eye on Dean's message.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
58. Clark's not responsible for Dean's third-place finish
The fact is the party "machine" kicked in and the media was oh-so-pleased to help that cause. I love Dr. Dean but I can see the writing on the wall. There are too many factors working against him: The Republicans, the media and the Democratic Party machine -- few people can survive that (Clinton is the only exception). The fact is, the machine got behind Kerry, Edwards, and whether Kucinich will admit it or not, Kucinich willfully allowed himself to be used in the process. I'm watching these guys line up behind the party machine and it's making me sick, especially since I have little choice but to have to support one of them in the end. I don't know if I can do it again, I really don't.
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BearFlagDemocrat Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #58
68. Realistically speaking...
A lot of Dean warriors are going to lose heart if Dean doesn't get the nod. I know the watchword is ABB...but Dean has brought a lot of people into this process, and gotten them fired up. There's going to be a certain amount of attrition if the candidate ends up being another cardboard-cutout.

If the candidate wants to co-opt the Dean machine, he better be prepared to stand up like Dean!
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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
76. Gee.....
I make it a point to complement Dean, even though I'm a Clark supporter. (Sarcasm tag on) Here I thought that all I was doing was being polite and supportive towards someone I think is a fine candiate, even if he's not my first choice for the job. Instead, I guess I was "cannibalizing the Dean machine" for Clark's purposes. (Sarcasm tag off)

There is such a thing as polite discourse and commentary. Is Clark my primary choice? Yes. Does that mean my complementing Dean is some part of a plot against Dean. Of course it's not.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #76
92. I came in late
Where's the part where you complement Dean? This is the only post on the page with "PatGund"'s name on it that I can find.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #76
95. I came in early
And I'm still wondering about the complement you mention.
UNLESS .. is Michael Moore posting here at DU?
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Turkw Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
91. Moore has always liked Dean and his movement, I've heard him say
good things about Dean on more than one occasion. I think that media is WAY overplaying Iowa. Dean and his supporters aren't out of it by a long shot and that's good. If only Lieberman would drop out of the race we might have few enough candidates for them to have the time to actually say something, but still enough to have several points of view. Well I can hope anyway.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
26. Kudos to Michael Moore. This is just another example of why he's a true
Democrat. Regardless of his choice of candidates, he gives credit where he feels it's due. You can't help respecting that.

I'm a Dean supporter and I aspire to this degree of non-partisan support.

:toast:
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copithorne Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Bravo!
I agree 100%!


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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you from a big fan of yours...
Howard Dean is like the first guy through the door when cops bust in on bad guys. He's the one that takes all the bullets, and makes it safe for the John Kerrys to come in afterwards.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
28. I think it's a terrific letter
I posted to several Dean supporters last nite that they sholdn't be so upset, because they did make a difference, a big difference. I agree with everything Michael Moore said.

And you need to keep working for change, we all need to keep working for change. We may support different candidates, & we may disagree on some issues, but we all want the same outcome: get rid of Shrub, & try to give back the government to the people. And we're not going to accomplish all our goals in 1 election cycle, but we have to make a start on this realignment.

Remember, McGovern didn't win his election, but because of the work of thousands, millions of people, the war ended.

So hang in there. You did a great job, you made a difference, and 1 week is a lifetime in politics. Who knows how this will all turn out?
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. Unbelieveably well put...
Like only Michael Moore can do it. Bravo!
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
32. Pretty good. Got all the way to post 24 before someone chimed
in suggesting Moore's letter was part of a plot to "cannibalize" Dean supporters for Clark. Things must be slow around here tonight.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. He doesn't?
http://switch.forclark.com/story/2003/12/1/102430/764

Thank you, Howard Dean. I like the way you treated me as an activist rather than a consumer. You've influenced Clark, who now has great activist tools like the Clark Community Network, the Clark Recruiter, and best of all, actual talking points! I thank you for your positive influence, but no, I will not drink your Kool-Ade.

Dean can fundraise on behalf of Clark. Dean's money could work for Clark if Dean stepped down today. Dean's organization can work for Clark. Dean's volunteers can work for Clark and already are, I and a lot of the people who signed up for Dean's campaign and meetups are now working for Clark. Those big numbers on the side of Dean's page? Many of those are ex-supporters.
...
And once again, Dean's strategists can all work for Clark. All of Dean's strengths can be transferred to another candidate, but none of Clark's can.
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Are you saying that was written by Michael Moore?
It doesn't have his name on it anywhere.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #35
55. Did you follow the link?
I didn't say Moore wrote what I posted.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. The "He" refers to Clark
And I'm suggesting that the Clark campaign in hoping to move the Dean Machine into their HQ to go against Bush.
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #56
71. That entry was written by a blogger
Yes I followed the link and I do not see anything there that suggests it was written by a Clark campaign staffer. With all of the spelling errors in that particular entry, I seriously doubt it came from a staffer. Plus, The graphic they used is hosted on bartcopnation. Sounds like a regular ol' blogger to me.

At any rate, the Clark campaign has always welcomed defectors from the Dean campaign. Read a sampling of the supporters' blogs and you will find that a great, great many of the bloggers are self-confessed "former" Dean supporters.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Are you willing to say: "Clark does not want the Dean organization."
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. I'm willing to say ALL of the candidates are targeting Dean's supporters
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 02:53 PM by kayleybeth
Especially since Dean's disappointing showing in Iowa, and since a lot of Dean supporters are apparently defecting to other candidates or going back in the undecided column.

Would the other candidates- including Clark- like to have Dean's organization? Sure. Who wouldn't? But it is very doubtful, in my opinion, that other candidates' campaign staffers are posing as bloggers as part of some "conspiracy" to cannibalize Dean's organization.

edit: typo
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Turkw Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #72
93. All the candidates want every one else's supporters and organizations,
Clark, Dean, Kerry, etc. They would be dumb not to. Every one of us IS vital. We all have to work to get rid of Bush.

The difference between Dems and Repubs is that Dems want to win by having more people vote. Repubs want to win by silencing and keeping others from voting.
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LoneStarDem Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. Deny
Prove this was written by Michael Moore, clarify your post, or retract it. As it stands, this post is either incredibly unclear or dangerously deceptive.
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kovasb Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. go to his website.
its up there now, i assume you probably checked before and it wasnt up yet
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LoneStarDem Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. clarity
My previous post was in response to the portion cited in post 33, which appears to imply that the passage is Moores. I want to see proof.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
90. Mike Moore wants to cannabilize Dean's organization for Clark
Of course, the problem here, as I pointed out with all due respect in my last letter, is that for whatever reason, Dean himself is not going to give middle America the comfort level they need in choosing who they want in the Oval Office. Dean, as good and as right as he is, just isn't the man, on a personal level, to get Job One done: Bush Removal. That's OK. Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land. But he was still Moses.
...
Good friends in the Dean camp, please don't give up. We need you now and we will need you in November. And, to Precinct 83 Captain Kelly Chambers, all your hard work has NOT been in vain. We cannot win without you.


Make sense now?
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
34. That was a great letter. e/o/m
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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
36. Mike really has it in for Dennis
He took on Bush when others wouldn't.
Was DK running and hiding from Bush when he was introducing legislation in the House to counter Bush's illegal war. Listen I agree with the message from Moore. I hate to think of young new participants getting discouraged thats the last thing we need. But c'mon give DK some credit now and again. Moore seems to really have it in for him too bad DK lines up with most of his previously expressed views.
Scott
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. I feel the same way....
Thank you, minkyboodle.

I don't understand how people can say they agree with a candidate and then choose another....

Never could figure why MM went with Clark...a man who has never been elected to or held public office is somehow seen as more electable and better able to beat Bush.

The whole deal doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
:shrug:

Go Dennis!

Peace
DR
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. total class act
thanks for posting this.
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fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks Michael. I'm not giving up!!!!!!
Nor ever was, actually. The accomplishments of the Dean Machine are unquestionable. Regardless of this election's outcome, the challenge for Democrats is to translate this into a long-term party-building effort.

I can see that youg people in their first campaign would get discouraged. Entering into active politics after a 20-year hiatus, I'm still struck by just how much hard work it takes to convert just one vote.

But this game goes to the endurance runners, and even one vote means a lot. Stick with it, young people and all new campaigners, this is the toughest job of all, and the most important.

My sister just emailed in from Vermont, she's going to send Howard Dean more money.
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
47. Wow...I guess some Dean people on this board will have to
direct their venom at someone else. Pretty impressive letter from an pretty impressive guy.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. it was patronizing
I don't care if MM approves of me or not. He is a really bad judge of candidates. If he thinks he can reach out to us and get us to vote for Clark he is sadly missing the mark. I would vote Lieberman first, at least you you know what you get with Joe.

I happen to think Clark is a closet social conservative in a donkey suit.
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Do You REALLY Think a "Social Conservative" Would Appear on the Cover
of The Advocate?

Or, completely unprompted, write and file an amicus brief strongly in favor of affirmative action?

DTH
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. If he were hiding yes I do
I stand by what I said about Clark. I have no reason to trust he is sincere and lots of reason to believe he is not.
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Oooh-kay
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But no closet conservative could bear appearing on the cover of The Advocate, IMO. And tons of GLB folks and people of color in the military have come out in support of Clark's egalitarian nature.

DTH
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aquanut Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Perhaps meritocracy would be better than egalitarian. (?) n/t
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. I Actually Prefer Egalitarian in This Context
Clark has a record of treating everyone fairly and equally, and also of specifically requesting more women and people of color to serve as his officers.

DTH
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
70. Ummmm
Where in that letter did Moore say that Dean supporters should switch to Clark? I read it carefully and couldn't find it. Please point it out, thanks.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
53. I am conflicted
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 07:25 AM by quaker bill
I disagree with Mike on the electability meme in both directions.

But I do agree with his analysis of what the Dean camp has contributed to the mix. I appreciate his words of encouragement.

The next few weeks will show whether Dean has what it takes to bring the message to main street.
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. It doesn't matter if.........
Dean "has what it takes". Those who wield the power have spoken and it will not be Dr. Dean. We owe him a debt of thanks.
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windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
59. nice letter Mike!!
:kick:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
60. I hope all Dean supporters will read this. Excellent summary of
my own feelings as well.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
64. Interesting comment....
"Clark may be, now, the anti-war vote's best chance. I believe he is.

But in the meantime, let's tip our hats to Deaniacs everywhere. "
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eissa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
67. Great letter
I stated in a couple of posts yesterday the same thing (although Mike said it better, of course!). Win or lose, I believe the Dean campaign should be given credit for steering the course of the debates in the right direction (i.e., against bush), for speaking up when no one else was (maybe Dennis only), and for energizing democrats like few politicians have.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
73. GREAT stuff!!!
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 01:46 PM by Thankfully_in_Britai
Although I do not have a favourite candidate, I do find the "anyone but Dean" crowd to be very offputting indeed. Nice to see that Moore is encourgaging other candidates besides his own rather than mindlessly attacking all DUers who not support their own particular candidate as many on here seem intent on doing.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
74. No one understood the inside straight Kerry Had in Iowa
The Dean campaign badly misjudged how the actual mechanics of a caucus work and this is where Kerry was strongest. Insider political party folk run the mechanics of this thing, and Kerry's folk wrere ewell experienced and well versed in what to do. not so Dean folks. First timers, almost all of them. When the "horse trading " for delegates started ,they didn't understand this vital part of the campaign. They got schnookered by the old folk, and stood by in amazement watching their counts get altered and shaking their heads as Kucinich folks in a handshake deal went to Edwards ( a war candidate!) Gephardts anti-Dean agreement saw those guys go to Edwards also, it was a big fiasco because no onereally bothered to talk to any experienced old-timers about what was going down.

It was a machine victory over youthful insurgency, assisted by the media.
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #74
78.  Dean's Iowa campaign staff and Trippi are all old hands at Iowa caucuses
If they didn't prepare the newbie Dean caucusers for the "horse trading" contingency, then they were woefully incompetent, IMO.
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Logansquare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. From the reports I hear, you are correct nt
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
77. Ya know, I always wanted to read Stupid White Men and watch
Bowling for Columbine.

Glad I didn't do either.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Why? eom
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. agreed. he applauds Dean and his supporters then disses them
You can't have it both ways Mr. Moore!

His "supportive" statement was patronizing and left more of a sour taste than a positive one.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Bingo!
And to think I almost spent money on Moore's work.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
83. Mike Moore can relax
25,000 new supporters have signed up on Dean's site in the past week. Anyone thinking of "giving up" will be bolstered by that one fact alone.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
85. I enjoyed his letter and thought he was very gracious
he made many great points.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
87. Feelings about Moore aside-there is nothing wrong w/ promoting unity...
...
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religiousleft Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
94. Proof of intentions to follow
Nice letter! If the tone is condescending at some points it's at least more civil then most of what's posted on DU. We should all save it in against the possibility that Clark does not receive the nomination. I'm sure that Mr. Moore will write a letter to his fellow Clark supporters urging that they contribute to the work of the eventual candidate. If he doesn't lets all burn our copies of Stupid White Men.
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