Who would you rather unseat, Feinstein or Santorum?

[Hippo_Tron]

Come on guys, give me a break this is getting ridiculous. I understand that some of you all are disappointed with Feinstein and Stabbenow over this Condi thing. I understand and I don't expect you to send either of them any money or hell even voting for them in 2006. That being said, do you REALLY want to spend your time and money actively campaigning for them instead of spending that time and money working against the Republican fascists who are the real problem. Stabenow may have voted in a way that you didn't like. Feinstein may have even sold her soul to the Bush administration for all I care. Neither of these ladies are dangerous. Santorum is DANGEROUS, the man may be our next President if we're not careful. He as well as some of the other GOP senators need to be unseated and wasting our efforts on challenging Feinstein and Stabenow when we could be working against these guys is just ridiculous. Alright, flame away.

[BayCityProgressive]

1. I haven't

heard Stabenow's comments on the Condi issue but she is normally a real stand up senator. I will definately be supporting her and all other Democrats in 06. I would raithe rhave Feinstein or Stabenow than Santorum or Lott any day.

[genius]

72. Replace Frankenstein with Sheen in primary. Get Santorum out in Gen elect

[saltpoint]

2. Can we all pitch in and buy them both cruise tickets --

-- through the Bermuda Triangle?

I'm good for 50 bucks right up front.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Feinstein...

The party must be moderaterein....


I think we should have democratic centralism in the Democratic party;Leninist party discipline if you will....

[DebJ]

4. Ha! I get to NOT vote for Santorum here in Pa, and to work

directly to get him out!!!!!
I'd vote for a ham sandwich before I'd vote for Sanctorum.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. Ham Sandwich for US Senate!

"At least he doesn't talk about man on dog sex."

[adigal]

36. I'll come over from NY

and help you all get Santorum out!! Let me know where to show up!

[Guaranteed]

5. Santorum. But that doesn't mean that we don't

need to get rid of Feinstein, too. And not many people live in both CA and PA.

[NoPasaran]

69. Only the people who live

In California, PA
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&location=pvcYwihIAGIlKq4rOfjmqX%2fupnlFDwPYGQl74UbzWq7Roe%2fOkW7Wnoa7Mw4aFH8pMEfrUYLiuJvbkJs6vFN2Id9QLESbfHxG8OWyutv%2b%2bj8%3d

[RaulVB]

6. Is a healthy debate

But your proposition is ludicrous

You picked the most repugnant, extreme Republican you could find, nicely done!

[Hippo_Tron]

10. I picked Santorum cuz he's up for re-elction in '06, how about Jim Talent

He's another Republican sack of shit who wouldn't be there in the first place if we'd gotten our act together a few years ago. I'd much rather see this bastard on his way back to Missouri than Feinstein on her way back to California.

[RaulVB]

32. Well, if the Democratic Senator is going to side with the regime...

In the most important issues, what's the difference?

[Hippo_Tron]

39. Because Santorum is DANGEROUS, Feinstein is not

Feinstein MAYBE ranks-and-files with the GOP 1/3 of the time, IF that. Santorum rubber stamps 99.9% of the Bush administration agenda. More importantly, he goes above and beyond the Bush administration agenda and pushes for things even farther to the right. The fact that he is a sitting senator in a blue state gives that much more legitimacy to the bigot homophobes. It brings them that much closer to turning this country into a theocracy where homosexuals have no rights whatsoever. You know full well that Feinstein doesn't do any of this. THAT's the difference between Feinstein and Santorum.

[RaulVB]

40. NO WAY SANTORUM IS GOING TO be "the one"

C'mon, that place is reserved for Jeb Bush.

Feinstein gives her vote to the government in relevant issues. That's VERY BAD POLITICS.

[Hippo_Tron]

43. There was NO WAY that Dubya was gonna be "the one" either

There was NO WAY that Dubya was ever going to beat Gore. There was NO WAY that Dubya was going to be a legitimately accepted President by the American people.

[RaulVB]

44. Well, he is not "legitimate"

He "was selected" by the US Supreme Court in 2.000

Jeb Bush is the next one and/or Ashcroft will be part of the package.

[orthogonal]

7. Feinstein! Hands down!

Santorum, with his ruminations about gay rights leading to "man on dog" sex, and his cynical abuse of Pennsylvania's tuition laws, does us a service by making Republicans look as ridiculous as they are.

He will also draw fire from the right if Toomey runs against him in the primary.

And Hoeffel or any other Democrat Santorum replacement would probably be pretty middle of the road, in the Feinstein or Lieberman mold.

I'd rather have a real Republican I can point to to demonstrate what's wrong with the Right, than another DINO watering down the principles I'm for.

[DaveinMD]

9. this is quite illuminating

many here don't want to win and move the country in the right direction. They'd rather argue with and attack other Democrats.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Santorum will be hillarious until he's in the white house

Don't think it can happen? We were all saying the same thing about Bush a little over four years ago.

[ClassWarrior]

15. Even though you're probably joking about Feinstein...

...you make an excellent point about how valuable shite like Santorum can be to the Progressive cause.

NGU.

[TwentyFive]

20. I understand your point - but I disagree

Santorum's rantings may sound stupid to you and me - but the title of Senator makes his bigotry more credible, especially if he is re-elected.

[Pirate Smile]

56. That is idiotic. Yeah, lets keep Frist as Majority leader instead of

Feinstein voting for Reid.

[radio4progressives]

79. Feinstein Blamed our San Francisco Mayor on the Kerry's Loss.

As soon as the election was over, she came home and blasted San Francisco Mayor and the San Francisco community for allowing same sex marriages last year.

Not only is she a Republican at heart, she's a War Profiteer - she has blood on her hands as far as I'm concerned.

She needs to be ousted.

[thedailyshow]

11. Santorum

[ClassWarrior]

13. You are RIGHT on the money, Hippo.

Unless we have strong, STRONG primary challengers who are assured of victory in the general elections, we have to make the best of what we have now, work our way into the party to make long-term changes, and ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THE ENEMY IS THE RADICAL RIGHTWING AND NO ONE ELSE.

NGU.

[AntiCoup2K4]

14. Feinstein, easily.

Santorum admits he's a Republican, and while he's a distatsteful swine, we expect it of him. We don't expect Democrats to be PNAC'ers (by marriage) and defend incompetent war mongers.

The planet would be better off with both, but we can't kick Dogfucker out of our party for being a traitor, as he was never in.

[ClassWarrior]

18. So you're advocating a bitter primary fight in which neither...

...Feinstein NOR her hypothetical challenger will emerge victorious, thus allowing the Radical RW to claim yet another Senate seat?

Just want to get that straight.

NGU.

[AntiCoup2K4]

23. What are the odds of a radical RW being elected to the Senate in Cali?

Aside from San Diego and Orange county, the populated areas of the state are deep blue. Run a real Democrat.

[ClassWarrior]

25. The odds are bad. So let's force a bitter primary fight...

...with an entrenched incumbent to improve the chances for our buddies the Radical RW. Whaddaya say??

NGU.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Know It Was A Long Time Ago

but Cali did elect Reagan twice and sent S I Hayakawa to the Senate....


And come to think of it how about Pete Wilson?

[Hippo_Tron]

28. They elected a Nazi sympathizer as their governor a year ago

Don't underestimate the power of the dark side.

[TwentyFive]

33. Yes - conservatives are swarming like locusts.

I can't believe such a fascist musclehead was able to replace Governor Davis. But, the media did a number on Davis...blaming him for the Bush recession and Enron's attack on the state.

Replacing Feinstein would have no practical benefit right now. We need to focus on exposing the right wing conservatives and the biased media.

[AntiCoup2K4]

45. Not the typical election though.

How many candidates were on the ballot again? 185 or something like that. And yeah, some stupid morons voted for "The Terminator" fictional charachter rather than the real son of a Nazi death camp guard.

Then the left vote was split between Bustamante, and Camejo (Green) and Arianna Huffington (forget which party she was claiming). I think Gary Coleman got more votes than the porn star anyway, but that whole election was a fucking joke from the moment Issa started the whole thing. Certainly not a logical predictor of future CA election cycles.

[Hippo_Tron]

49. As I recall, Gropinator had somewhat of a mandate

I think that he came very close to a majority.

[ClassWarrior]

57. Neither is a primary challenge to an incumbent.

Both situations result in splits.

NGU.

[TwentyFive]

30. Good point! The country is becoming MORE conservative.

Limbaugh, FOX, Hannity, Newt, MSNBC, Coulter, Savage are the new mainstream Americans. There are a slew of them (like locusts?) and they are all top sellers of books, tv & radio shows and other types of disinformation. CNN has turned to far right bias over the last 10 years because they saw the handwriting on the wall.

It's pure fantasy to think we could get a new liberal senator elected in CA now. Media coverage would not favor it. The candidate would get 100 hours of nagative coverage, compared to 3 hours of positive coverage.

We've got a lot of work to do before we can think of cleaning house.

[RaulVB]

35. That's a load of crap!

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

Those fascist wackos are not the majority.

[TwentyFive]

38. Oh really? Then why are they winning elections?!

I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid. Facts speak for themselves.

[RaulVB]

41. They cheat, lie and distort

Just the "facts."

[TwentyFive]

48. Exactly!

You talk about lies and distortions of the RW, and I agree with you.

Problem is, voters believe these lies. Limbaugh, FOX, Hannity, etc. spread lies daily, and this is making the country more conservative. They have a huge audience, and they suck it all in.

Meanwhile, we've got 5% as much media coverage with AAR. As long as we don't get our message out, the country will continue to move right.

[ClassWarrior]

42. My point had nothing to do with ideology. The USA is more Progressive...

...than ever. My point was that a primary fight with an entrenched incumbent can be nothing but messy, and would allow the real minority, the Radical RWers, to grab more power.

NGU.

[TwentyFive]

62. I agree about the primary fight being bloody.

But, I can't see how you say the country is 'more progressive than ever' when I look at things like the Patriot Act, lobbyists writing bills in congress, rightwing media, tax cuts for corporations shipping jobs overseas, etc.

[ClassWarrior]

65. I can't see how you say the country is 'becoming MORE conservative'...

...when I look at things like average people.

Read Ruy Texiera's "The Emerging Democratic Majority." The Dems win on the issues HANDS DOWN. So the Radical RW have to make up fairy tales to manipulate people into voting for them, and the Corporate Media Whores enable this criminal behavior.

NGU.

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. Bullshit.

You know who buys Hannity and Coulter's books??

Richard Mellonhead Scaife and Rupert Murdoch. They have money to burn. And knowing how crooked those bastards are, they probably found a way to write it off on their taxes.

[TwentyFive]

58. How do you know Scaife and Murdoch buy their books?

Are you saying these 2 rats are buying millions of Coulter and Hannity books...and then tossing them? I wish that were true.

If a majority of progressives believe in conspiracy theories, then we are in serious trouble. We need to start taking reality as it is. America is becoming more conservative.

The good news is that it can swing back the other way. What we need is a game plan for making that happen. The only person with a rational game plan is Howard Dean. The previous game plan of the DLC has failed, and we need to abandon being the 'republican lite' party.

[ClassWarrior]

68. Ask the New York Times.

NGU.

[zulchzulu]

16. Santorum..there is no other choice

Feinstein is a lout, but she is NOTHING like Santorum. I want that bastard's head on a stick.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. Santorum must go.........

.....next to Jeff Sessions, he's the biggest slimeball in the Senate, and in a blue state that is not acceptable.

[Kerrytravelers]

21. Feinstein needs to go.

As a CA resident, she's my senator and she isn't reporesenting the Democratic party. I'd rather get a strong-will Dem in there to battle the likes of Santorum.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

29. Then you won't get a Dem at all if you oppose her

You'll get some Arnie-backed moderate Repug who'll back EVERYTHING Bush does.

[Kerrytravelers]

81. The Dems need to pick a candidate, but one who can over the top.

I have no idea who right now, but I'm with a group who candidate searches.

[Inspired]

19. Easy.....Santorum

If it can work for the repugs to defeat Daschle, why can't we succeed in defeating this dork?

[MrSlayer]

22. Santorum, I feel dirty with him as my Senator.

He is such a fucking scumbag it makes my skin crawl to say he's my Senator. I hope someone declares against him soon so we can get to work.

[Robbien]

24. Why is everything an either or debate. I say kick them both out.

Getting rid of one does not mean we cannot also get rid of the other.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. One word: MONEY

We NEED every dollar that we have to spend on defeating the Republicans. If we start donating money to Feinstein's primary challenger it will be a waste on two fronts in that...

1) That money could be going to Santorum's challenger

2) Feinstein will have to use DSCC money for the general election after she's spent her personal funds to fend off of her primary challenger, DSCC money that could be going to Santorum's challenger.

We don't have an unlimited supply of money like the GOP does. We need to consolidate our resources to where they are most effective.

[Robbien]

34. Feinstein is more of a political asset to the GOPers than to the Dems

The GOPers are trotting her out when they need a token Democratic Senator to show GOP bi-partisianship. The Democratic party's stance is then undercut.

She is a huge liability.

So we have to expend Democratic money to re-elect a Republican lap dog. Yes it will be less money than to elect someone new, but Feinstein's re-election will not be chump change.

I still say NO. A very strong NO.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Feinstein's money will come from her constituents not national resources

And while the bi-parisanship thing is a legitimate point, Santorum is STILL far more dangerous.

[Robbien]

50. CBS and NBC used Feinstein clips today. Not Boxer, Feinstein.

Feinstein is more of a threat because MSM is using her to represent the Democratic view. That is the real danger. We finally got our Senators to stand up and represent us today, but MSM used Feinstein as our representative.

That is the real threat.

[Hippo_Tron]

54. I don't want the MSM pundits interpreting Barbara Boxer's comments

I can give you an alternative scenario. Let's say that they are discussing this on capitol gang, a show with stupid partisan hacks bickering at each other.

CNN flashes clip of Barbara Boxer opposing Condi

Kate Obernie + Bob Novak: DEMOCRATS ARE RACIST DEMOCRATS ARE RACIST DEMOCRATS HATE BLACK PEOPLE!!!!!!

Shields + Carlson + Hunt: No they're not... (but it doesn't matter because people just heard DEMOCRATS ARE RACIST screamed from the mouths of people that they think are legitimate journalists).

I love Barbara Boxer and I much prefer her to DiFi. That being said I'd rather the MSM ignore her than distort what she says. The fact that the MSM is hostile to democrats is not Feinstein's fault.

[RaulVB]

59. You care too much about they way they "think"...

That's bad politics.

[Robbien]

74. You favor our voice being silenced because you are scared of being called

Racist?

No wonder the Democratic party is falling behind.

[radio4progressives]

80. Feinstein's money Comes from Fortunes of War - Military Defense Contracts.

and that's what is funding her media appearances and her campaigns.

She has the key to the White House, the DoD, Pentagon etc.

And she's got keen, vested interest in perpetual war.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senat...

[deadparrot]

31. Santorum.

He's one sick sonuvabitch.

Feinstein may be an idiot and a DINO, but she's not scary.

I'd keep a moderate any day over a right-wing raving lunatic.

[Walt Starr]

46. Feinstein

We have to get our own house in order first or gaining seats will be meaningless.

[Piperay]

51. Santorum

for sure!

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

52. No contest: Santorum

I live in PA with that embarassment. As unhappy as all of you may be with Feinstein right now, there is really NO CONTEST for who is the really scary radical hate-mongering Senator.

[KissMeKate]

53. false dichotomy

I oppose santorum,

and Feinstein, well, if she continues to play suck up, SHE will have to go too!

And be replaced by a democrat who isnt afraid to stand up for democratic values.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. See post #26, Money doesn't grow on trees

Not for democrats anyway.

[KissMeKate]

63. still a false dichotomy- grassroots money can be endless

with an INSPIRED grassroots.

[Pirate Smile]

60. This thread gives me a headache. This is one of the kind that sends

people running to the Lounge for some sanity.:crazy:

[CBHagman]

61. Since I'm not into masochism, I choose Santorum.

Like you, I don't get the "Let's destroy Democrats who don't adhere to my every whim!"

That way lie madness and Ralph Nader. Do you really want to be fenced off in the Ralph Nader's exclusive club of the Totally Uninvolved?

[Walt Starr]

66. Let's see, if the presidential ticket was Feinstein vs. any Republican

I'd vote Nader with a clear conscience.

[LeftyMom]

64. Yes

To do both we need strongwilled dem leaders to tell that DINO that she *isn't* running again, and that she *is* backing the new canidate. She can say she needs to spend time with her family, just like all the other bushwomen do when they get canned behind the scenes. If she decides to run anyhow, the party needs to make it clear she's gonna have to rattle the tin cup elsewhere, since she isn't getting any money from us.

Then on to the general election and Man-on-dog Santorum. Honestly, I think the best way to defeat Santorum would be to run ads with footage of him spouting crazy shit with a minimum of commentary afterward, something to the effect of "Does that represent you?" or "It's time for a change. Bob Smith for Senate." Oh, and hammer the cyberschool issue. Show the two bedroom cottage where he and his kids claim residency, then show the VA house where he really lives. Show how much money was spent on the cyberschool and how the local school district could have used it instead, use lots of doe eyed schoolgirls with pigtails and ribons in thier hair in those ads, bonus points if they're saying the pledge or playing hopscotch. Maybe show them dissapearing from music classes and field trips to the zoo, like the missing persons at the begining of Without a Trace.

My point is, we can do both. Anybody who thinks challenging Feinstein means we'll wind up with a republican representing California really overestimates the CA republicans, they couldn't find thier ass with a GPS transmitter and a sherpa guide. They don't have another Arnold in thier pockets, they'll run another self-financed zillionare with no credentials and minimal wit or some gun-toting placer county wingnut. Other than Arnie (a social liberal, whatever his faults) how many repukes do we have in state-wide elected office? I thought so.

[MessiahRp]

70. Why not do something more constructive?

Like help convince Feinstein to gear up for a race for Governor against Arnold.

Then you can get a Liberal Dem to run for her seat. Kill two birds with one stone. She's got enough clout in CA to give Arnold a legitimate run and she couldn't possibly be worse than he is, at the same time he Senate seat can go to someone actually on the Left.

Rp

[Pirate Smile]

73. Now that sounds like a good idea.

[LeftyMom]

76. She lost the race for Gov once

and stuck us with Pete Fucking Wilson (yes, I'm bitter) so no she doesn't get a second chance to screw that up. Besides, "she's too fucking conservative, let's have her run for governor" is bad strategery. Best case scenario, she wins (unlikely, the woman has all the warmth and appeal of leftover tuna casserole) and we're stuck with a corrupt but socially liberal governor. Swapping a centrist DINO for a centrist RINO isn't much of a change. More likely, she loses. While I wouldn't mind seeing her out on her ass, I'd prefer the direct approach so we can get the capitol back.

BTW, I can't convince her of a thing. Like the rest of her constituents I'm lucky to get a form letter that's sort of tangentially related to something a bit like what I wrote her about when I contact her office.

She's gotta go.

[Pam-Moby]

67. FEINSTEIN!!!!

How could she even consider less step up to the plate and introduce Condi Lice to the Senate Foreign Relations committee???? I say that she just signed her get out of the Senate as soon as possible card!!!!

[dave123williams]

71. Unseat Santorum? I want him tarred and feathered.

[Quixote1818]

75. Lieberman

[leesa]

77. Both. Why do we have to choose, they are from different states?

Feinstein IS dangerous...she is a terrible warmonger...likes to blow up kids for her husband's bidness.

[radio4progressives]

78. Feinstein is a WAR PROFITEER - Military, Pentagon and NASA.

I posted several articles (unknowingly against the DU rules) a couple of days ago. Feinstein PROFITS from this war and all other wars. There's been lots of disppointments with Feinstein during this administration . but her boot licking the Bush Crime Family on their fascists policies is about direct profits, two years ago awarded over $600,000.00 in military and pentagon contracts to her husband's venture businesses, which by the way, are a part of the Carlysle group.

I don't know anything Santurim or Stabenow's personal investments tied to the war, but it should be checked.

Feinstein must be booted out, if not recalled imo. It's a direct conflict of interest, same as Delay, Frist and all the other crooks in the Republican party in Congress, looting and squandering our treasury for personal power and gain.