Black Democrats Don't Like Senate's Treatment of Rice

[Roland99]

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200501%5CPOL20050126d.html

Why are Senate Democrats debating the qualifications of a woman whose accomplishments speak for themselves, some prominent black Democrats wondered on Tuesday.

Andrew Young -- the former Atlanta mayor, U.S. congressman and United Nations ambassador in the Carter administration -- and C. Delores Tucker, chair of the National Congress of Black Women, agreed to appear with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist on Tuesday, to urge support for Dr. Condoleezza Rice as the next secretary of state.

"We think that Condoleezza Rice not only deserves the support, but the country needs a strong, wise secretary of state with a bipartisan mandate to help establish democracy, not only in Iraq, but around the world," Young said.

"We think that this should be a strong, civil process that gives her (Rice) the mandate to lead America's foreign policy in a very, very troubled world."

:wtf: is going on?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. CNS = RW BS

[Roland99]

4. I know that...but....

that doesn't change the comments made.

[ClassWarrior]

13. All Radical RWers are liars - Rice, your news source, all of 'em.

NGU.

[Freddie Stubbs]

142. Apperently BET has fallen for these lies too

On Tuesday, several groups, including the National Political Congress of Black Women, led by C. DeLores Tucker, met at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. to rally support for Rice and speak out against aggressive questioning by members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

President and CEO of Leon H. Sullivan Foundation, Hope Sullivan, agreed with Tucker. “As I watched this brilliant African-American woman being questioned so aggressively by certain members of the Senate panel, I knew it was necessary for those of us who are so proud of Dr. Rice to stand up and be counted,” Sullivan said. “So often, the critical voices are the loudest – it is time for the many voices of support for Dr. Rice to be heard.”

http://bet.com/News/tlscott_ricesupporters.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished&Referrer=%7B03CE5360-2620-42CB-AD7E-77E4249C5FB7%7D

[itzamirakul]

148. There may be a few, but not too many...

There are always a few who will go along with playing the race card even when it is against their own best interests.

I can only speak for myself and as an African American...I think she sucks. She is a lying b... and dangerous to have in a position of power.

I find it hard to believe that Andrew Young is siding with her in spite of the fact that she said the Civil Rights Movement was unnecessary and he was a major force in that movement. Oh, well... maybe the Dems need to wake up and start including more blacks and other people of color in top positions.

[Tigress DEM]

163. Hold up, Condi said the Civil Rights Movement was unnecessary?

Is there a news source on that? When did she say that?

How did she think people were going to stop the KKK from burning crosses and hanging innocent people?

How can ANY politician that looks at the world today even think the civil rights movement was unnecessary?

I'm blown away.

[itzamirakul]

199. Yes, she is on record as saying...

that the Civil Rights Movement was not necessary and that eventually segregation would have "gone away by itself."

Right now I don't have time to find a link for you but try google and check Condoleezza Rice and the civil Rights movement or words to that effect.

She also makes note of the fact that she was a member of the church where the four little black girls were killed by a bomb. She was a child at the time, quite naturally.

Her feelings about the Civil Rights Movement makes me concerned as to how Andrew Young could possibly support her...but if he is following in the footsteps of the movement, he is supporting her for no reason other than she is black. (Of course, he could have been Armstrong William-ized, too)

[tavalon]

221. Link? n/t

[Dinger]

2. She's A Liar, That's What's Going On

[davidinalameda]

3. we do need a strong wise SOS

but Condi Rice isn't strong nor wise

[moggie12]

5. Sorry, but Andrew Young is a dope

He is falling into a reverse-racism trap. Is every single black person in the country worthy of support no matter what they do?? Give me a break.

[xultar]

25. Comments like this will drive blacks from the party. Is this what you

want. Insulting a beloved Civil Rights leader???????????

[moggie12]

33. I think he's being a dope on this issue

In hindsight I shouldn't have said he's a dope, but I firmly believe he's being dopey on this issue. If I insulted him by sounding like I was calling him "a dope" in general, I apologize.

My question was: Should we automatically support every black person no matter what they do??

I think the answer is "No".

I judge people by what they do, not by their race. Condi Rice aided and abetted the deception of the American people on the incredibly important issue of whether it was necessary to go to war in Iraq. Case closed. Whether she is the first African-American woman to be nominated as Secretary of State is irrelevant.


edited to fix typo

[Cha]

126. I agree with you..it doesn't matter what

color Andrew Young is..he's being a BIG DOPE on this very important issue in our history!

[truebrit71]

34. When he supports a clearly unqualified candidate..???

Abso-frickin-lutely...

If he cannot see that he is being used by the Reich-Wing then he ain't as smart as I thought he was....

[bowens43]

39. If he said this

"We think that Condoleezza Rice not only deserves the support, but the country needs a strong, wise secretary of state with a bipartisan mandate to help establish democracy, not only in Iraq, but around the world," then he's a dope or a neo-con.

[Jackie97]

45. We shouldn't be asked to blindly support Rice....

just because she's a black woman.

She might have a lot of credentials, but she's also being known for her helping to mislead the US into war. That should automatically disqualify her; black or white.

[Tomee450]

47. I'm African American

and I don't ever hear any blacks making positive remarks about Condi Rice. They have some of the same negative opinions of her as many of the posters here. Since when did Andrew Young become a beloved Civil Rights leader? His name is rarely brought up. He did very little for the poor of Atlanta when he was the mayor. I don't think you will hear to many blacks calling him beloved.

[Angelique]

90. WHOA.. and I don't hear any blacks making positive remarks about Condi.

well then buckle in big boy.. I like her grit, and I have held back because I hate to get branded a rightwinger. I thought Boxer was more that a bit offensive, not just to Rice, but to blacks and women in particular.. I know this doesn't fit the mold around here, but that was how I felt.. I don't agree with hardly anything that the BU8 folks do, but I would much rather fight this war overthere than in Chicago.. I am still entitled to my opinion.. maybe, just maybe, I have not been alone.. SO THERE!

[LittleClarkie]

106. This whole talk about the color of her skin is beside the point

She could be purple. She's then be purple and incompetent. Pick a shade. She can be an incompetent liar in that shade too. And I don't care with how much grit she lies. It's still a lie. She is still a major architect of the war in Iraq. That is what is important, not how much grit she has or what shade of cocoa brown she is.

I haven't heard too many good things about folk's opinion of her and how she will do as SoS. I don't think she was incredibly popular as Foreign Adviser around the world either. That's what counts. How much of a diplomat is she.

Talking about race now is feeding into the RW agenda. Not accusing you, you are of course welcome to your opinion, but that's how I feel about it. It is beside the point. Her qualifications not her color, or her grit, are what is important.

We had a mayor in my town who had some good far-reaching ideas for our town. But he was also an arrogant asshole. Those good far-reaching ideas never came to fruition because he alienated most everyone. Even if she has good ideas, if she can't execute them for lack of diplomatic skills, they will be for nothing.

[Name removed]

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[LittleClarkie]

137. First of all, can you be more specific in what your mother didn't like

Second, it may just be that if chasing after a certain constituency that is moving to the conservative will make the party move away from core values they want to represent, then there will be a parting of the ways.

I don't care what the constituency is. If in deciding which values are key core values for the Democratic Party to uphold we lose some who are going in a different direction, we may have to just accept that.

I see the Dem party moving to socially liberal but fiscally more responsible values. They are trying to reframe how they discuss those socially liberal values, but the values themselves are pretty must staying the same, near as I can tell. If you and/or your mother are moving to more socially conservative views while still retaining more liberal fiscal views, you may have to accept the fact that you are moving away from the party, and figure out where to go from there. You may have to decide which values are most important to you, just as the Dem Party is doing. But if your values and the Dem Parties don't match, and the disagreement is on values central to both sides, I'm sorry but you may have to face that you are no longer a Dem. If it means backing down on a core Democratic Party value, I'd rather the Party didn't chase after your vote. I'm sorry.

No, I guess all African American's think alike. Not such a terrible concept. But then, I guess not all African Americans have to be Democrats if the Democrats don't represent their values any more.

So people are calling you stupid. So what. I got called a Communist for being a Kerry supporter. Did it stop me from being who I was? Nope. Was I happy about being called a Communist, a Socialist and unconstitutional. Not particularly. I got alot of ridicule for making it known in my Red County who I was voting for. And all I did was not take off my button no matter where I went. My so-called friends still look down on me because they think I'm misguided. Maybe you and your opposing viewpoint will challenge our party to be the big tent we're supposed to be. Just be grateful you don't live in Freeperville.

[Angelique]

144. Thank you for your thoughtful response..

I am not at all afraid that the party will shift too far in either direction.. We are a very committed lot that hold passionate positions on the fringes and in our core. I am afraid that we may alienate those of us that hold some disagreements with one or two of the hundreds of principals that make us the stalwarts of our democracy.. I don't want our leaders, to be so pliable as to hold opposing views whenever they change their shorts.. often that aids our enemies and our REPO jerks living on the edge of their flat earth!

[Tomee450]

138. Are you kidding?

Your mother turned against Kerry? She supported Bush? I cannot see anything that Bush has to offer that would make me turn to this administration. Anti-affirmative action, non funding of No child Left Behind, packing the court with strict constructionist judges? The Republican party is the party of Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Clarence Thomas, Armstrong Williams. The party that did not wish to place sanctions on South Africa to end its apartheid regime, the party that thought Nelson Mandela should remain in prison. Gee,don't mean to offend but I am so glad that most blacks are not so easily manipulated.

Did you tell your mother that there is more than sexual morality? What about caring for the poor. Isn't that a moral issue? What about the preservation of civil rights for all, that isn't a moral issue? The Republicans talk against abortion but they don't want to care for that baby once it's born. And what of capital punishment. I am a church going liberal who is opposed to capital punishment, but many of the same people opposing abortion supports the killing of other human beings. The so called God fearing people completely ignore the commandment Thou shalt not kill. And finally, I think a little examination on your part would reveal that there are just as many sexually immoral persons in the Republican party as in the Democratic Party. People just are not perfect and some will always behave badly.

[Name removed]

143. Deleted message

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[Maat]

149. 1) Kerry was in the service for longer than 3-1/2 months.

2) His puple hearts were WELL-EARNED. Check out the facts. Don't believe the Swift Boat Liars' account of Kerry's service - they did not observe him when he earned the metals.

[Tomee450]

156. You are a Democrat?

Funny, you sound just like some of the Republicans I've heard. You certainly have the right wing talking points down pat.

[Tigress DEM]

164. Remember before Bush does he gets a photo op showing the big lie

If he's going to cut funding to the Campfire Girls, first he has a photo op with them saying what a great group they are and how much that he supports them.....

So the real confusion is Bush says he is a Christian and is doing lots of wonderful things, but the truth is buried on page 27 on the back of a $1 off coupon for Folgers.

If everything Bush said about himself were true, I'd have to vote for him too and Iraq would never have gotten out of control. After all, the mission was accomplished a long time ago, right?

[LittleClarkie]

165. Right. And he doesn't believe in nation building anyway, right?

And DOMA should be decided by the states. Riiiiight.

But, of course, 9/11 changed everything. Changed a lie right into the truth. Amazing, isn't it.

[tavalon]

222. LOL

So true, make her any color, the color she really is is incompetent.

[WyLoochka]

131. A right wing, neocon tool

is a right wing, neocon tool.

Being female, black, Hispanic or a pink polka dotted eunuch or anything else does NOT earn one a pass for being a right wing, neocon tool.

Being born black, being born a woman does not mean Rice can or should escape being held accountable for her actions and lies by those who despise her ideology and it's devastating effects on people of ALL races, ALL creeds, BOTH genders etc

You like her "grit" and moreover she's black and a woman - so Boxer - a woman with "grit" herself, should not have had a concern in the world about her abject incompetence and bald faced lies displayed for all to see in her previous post as THE person most responsible (2nd to the preztledunce) for our country's security that resulted in the attacks of 9/11 and the wrong headed decision to invade a sovereign country that was no threat to us at all?

We are not fighting terrorists "over there" - we aren't fighting terrorists at all! We let them escape to plan another devastating attack, which Bin Laden himself said was really an ongoing economic attack, already set in motion 9/11, to bring about our eventual economic collapse ala the Soviet Union, which trap we have fallen directly into, with the unhelpful guidance of Rice.

Right wing tools do NOT get passes in my book. It's time to get real - there are plenty of women, plenty of African Americans, plenty of Hispanics who can be just as greedy and power mad as the old white guys' hero Dick Cheney.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

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[maxrandb]

135. So You're Saying that All Blacks and Woman Are Liars?

I watched the entire Boxer exchange with Condi. Not once did Boxer insult her, or berate her, or belittle her for being black, or for being a woman.

She pointed out factually that Condi lied, and lied and lied her ass off. Told half truths and obfiscated. Blurred the truth at every possible opportunity, and mis-led this country into an unnecessary war with untold costs in this country's blood and treasure.

If calling some who just happens to be black, and a woman, a bold face liar means you are offensive to "blacks and woman", then you must mean that every black woman is a liar.

Is that what you meant?

[Kahuna]

196. Or, every "woman" is a liar. Don't leave out the obvious...

:D

[maxrandb]

203. Just Once I Would Like for the MSM to Actually Do Their Job.

During the Clinton years, I never once heard "Heroin Rush" or Insanity, or Fucks News complain that all Republicans were misogynistic woman haters because they treated Janet Reno like shit. Are all Republicans robe wearing KKK members because they belittle and impugn Jesse Jackson?

An even better question. Are all veterans and wounded troops "Cheese Eating, Wine Drinking, French Surrender Monkeys"? I'm just asking, because the Republicans berated and belittled John Kerry to no end.

I don't recall anyone from our side screaming that "Republicans hate Purple Heart winners, and are obviously anti-troops, anti-military, and anti-hero".

Then again, not hearing that may be the BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH OUR SIDE. I'm tired of DEMs bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[Kahuna]

197. Or, every "woman" is a liar. Don't leave out the obvious...

:D

[Tomee450]

136. Well

if you are black, you are mostly alone. Most blacks in this country do not support this administration as proven by the fact that almost 90% voted for Kerry. I discuss politics a lot and have yet to find any widespread support for Dr. Rice. I watched Boxer, and I strongly disagree with your assessment. When blacks enter the big league they should be questioned no differently than others who are appointed to high positions. I have watched C-Span regularly and seen others who were not black also facing hard questions. This was not about race at all.

[ebayfool]

187. grit? uh-uh!

[flpoljunkie]

201. You have drunk the kool-aid, if you buy into Bush's crap about fighting

the war over there so we don't have to fight it here. This is the worst lie of all, as Iraq was no threat to us. I think we can all agree on that.

As I lisen to her at the staged welcome at the State Department, Condi's goal is to unite our allies (read sell neocon dreams) in the "great goal ahead of us"--that is, Bush's "bold agenda." Talking about drinking the kool-aid. Europe will never buy this dangereous neocon crazy talk.

[LittleClarkie]

92. The few, the proud, the only black folk they could find in agreement

I think Donna Braille was also agog over the idea of Condi Rice as SoS.

This lily white Norweigian from Virginia didn't know he was beloved either. You hardly hear his name.

Jesse, now there's someone who appears to be beloved. Wonder what he thinks about Condi. Somehow I don't think it is favorable.

[candy331]

130. Julian Bond gets more props in Black community than Young whose name

by the way is nearly never brought up. Did you hear from him in 2000/for that matter in 2004 so where has he been.Seems he was brought out of the wood works for just such occasion.

[Tomee450]

140. I couldn't agree more.

I never think of Young as a beloved figure. I rarely hear his name being mentioned.

[bunkerbuster1]

70. the beloved Civil Rights leader

is making himself sound like a dope.

He's smarter than that.

[realFedUp]

71. One black American leaders comments are fair game

I'm sorry, but you treating Andrew Young like
his comments can't be criticized is like reverse
racism...let's judge the merit of someone's
comments and not their skin color.

It doesn't take away from anything he's
done in his past. Blacks voting for Blacks
just on their skin color is racism.

[Kahuna]

191. It sure is. Saying Young can't be criticized because he's black..

is the same as saying black folks can't criticize bush because he's white. It's past time that we all stop tip toeing around race like this. Way past time.

[Kahuna]

188. Huh? If he really did say that, it's dopey. Don't shoot the

messenger.

[scbluevoter]

36. Unfortunately,. . .

Republicans realize the tie that binds us African-Americans. That is why Colin Powell was there first. Whether you agree with us or not, black people have a hard time not giving another black person the benefit of the doubt. I promise you, this is why the Republicans will have a Black person on the national ticket before the Democrats; and they will win. Symbolic gestures go along way in politics. You can call it tokenism if you want. I heard numerous Black professionals say during the campaign season, "say what you will about W., he sure has put some of US in high places." Like it or leave it, but we better catch up.

[Tomee450]

60. Really?

"say what you will about W., he sure has put some of US in high places."

A few Blacks may have made the above remarks but when most black voters went to be polls they voted Democratic. Most blacks I know never made such remarks at all. The saw clearly through the ploy. It would be absolutely absurd for blacks to support a party that treats them like the Republicans do. I have my problems with the Democrats too but at least they are not constantly vilifying black people. At least they are not trying to appoint strict constructionists judges. Imagine where blacks would be today had there been such jurists on the Supreme Court in 1954. Just because there are a few blacks faces we should support the party that opposes Affirmative Action, the party that does not support the public schools system that most black children attend? The Republican party has to change a lot before it gets my vote and I believe most black people share my view. I agree that the Democrats could do better but it just seems to me that the Republican party just does not have any respect for black people.

[BronxBoy]

215. Well it is a racial issue

but not the way it is being framed in this discussion. This is not a black-white issue in my opinion. This is a Black-Black issue. I think the far more important and deeper issue is that we as Black folk are probably at a watershed moment in our history here in America. I personally think think we are being targeted for extinction. The real issue here isn't how Condi is treated as a Black woman. Fuck Condi Rice. And fuck any person black or white who's upset because she got her tired ass raked over the coals. What's more important is how these neocons are lining us up to participate in our own destruction and actually have us think the debate should be about how Condi is treated and not about how WE as a race are being treated and how assholes like Condi are furthering their goals.

Whenever I hear that Blacks can find some sort of solace in the republican party, I have to shake my head. Yes, the Democrats have treated us poorly at times. Yes, the democrats have let our race down on far too many occasions. But our alternative is to go republican? Yes, there are sometimes to little avenues for us to express our political outrage elsewhere. And yes, it can sometimes be frustrating to explain how it really truly feels to be Black to people and not have them understand. But when I hear Black folks talk about supporting Bush, my first and only thought is "you have got to be fucking kidding me"

At this time in our history, we can't afford to be hoodwinked again. Think about it. A lot of the threads on this board have to do with the grand (and frightening) designs of the Neocons and PNAC. Well do you think for a minute that these "conservative" thugs only have a grand plan for the conquest of Middle Eastern Resources? You don't think they also have grand plans for us Black & Minority and Non-Conforming White folk right here. Listen, it is a very, very short walk from "RAGHEAD" to "NIGGER", "JEW", "SPIC" or "HIPPIE". And we shouldn't ever let the appointment of a person who looks like "one of us" or "any of us" distort that. Jesus, there is open discussion in a lot of DU venues right now of WW3...of Armageddon. Serious discussion. We shouldn't consider the fact that ethnic cleansing right here in America will not be part of the program?

I happen to be of the opinion that Black folk like Condi and Colin are, given their positions and this moment in time, the worst kind of race traitors. We are a bit unique in this country's history in that we literally have to give blood to become a part of the a part of the American democracy. We were hanged. We had dogs sicced on us. Every and any obstacle was thrown in our way, And for these people to be quiet in the face of systematic efforts to take away a right earned in blood makes my blood boil. They want to be conservatives. Fine be conservatives. But don't keep quiet when your own people are being disenfranchised and then have the goddam gall to harp upon 'LIBERTY" and "FREEDOM" during your confirmation hearings. Oh yeah. Fuck Ken Blackwell. I guess I should feel bad for him too when he runs for Ohio Govenenor and he gets called out as an uncle tomming POS.

And here is the ironic part, that Black churches are glomming on to the Bush message. Think about it. Black churches were the vanguard of the civil rights movement. They organized it and true Christians put their lives on the line. And now we've come to a point where the descendants of those valiant warriors are actually getting in bed with the very people who unleashed those horrors not so many years ago. The current leadership of the republican party has at it's heart and soul the very people who were blowing up little girls and black churches. And I'm supposed to believe that they represent a viable alternative. I mean, aside from gay marriage and faith based funding, why would any Black Pastor believe Bush is worth supporting?

Someone on this board said that folks here don't get it and because they don't, this is why Blacks are leaving the Dems. I say bullshit! I think we as Black folk need have discussions about what it really means to be Black. Condi and Colin are Black in color only. Think about the onslaught raged against our race by the republicans over the last 20 years. Crack. I happen to believe most of what Gary Webb wrote about the Dark Alliance. Most Black folk on this Board probably have a family member that was stung out on this shit. Or if they weren't strung out, they might have been dealing and got sentenced to some serious time. Prison. How many of you have had family members locked up for a long time and the punishment didn't in no ways meet the crime. How many Black kids now have to drop out of college becuase there is no aid? How many Black folks will die because Medicaid funding will be slashed to the bone and they won't be able to afford even piss poor medical care? How many Black folk on Section 8 will be out on the street because the neocons want to "starve the beast"? How will you feel when a loved one is killed in IRAQ or IRAN? You think about that and then come back here and post how I should even BEGIN to fucking care how Condi got her ass toasted.

Let's see I guess my attitude should be

"Well my son is died in Iraq, my cancer and diabetes progressed because I ain't got no coverage, I'm living in the street...

BUT I SHUH IS HAPEE THAT THAT CONDI DONE BEEN MADE SECRETARY OF STATE!!


Give me a fucking break

Tomee: Whe I refer to "you" in my post, I was not refering to you directly. It was a metaphorical "you" I have read a lot of your posts and have much respect for you.

[Tomee450]

218. Thank you and

I strongly agree with your post.

[tavalon]

228. Wow

and that is your 18th post! Welcome to DU. I do hope you hang around for a while. Supremely good post. I suppose it doesn't hurt that I agree with it, but it is articulate and interesting and I have to say that there are too few posters who carry both of those simultaneously, be they white, black or green.

[yardwork]

77. White supremacist movements with ties to Bush promote slavery

While bushco appoints a few African American people to some position, his party and his supporters are promoting a broad-based effort to rewrite American history. Pamphlets in Christian schools teach children that "slavery wasn't that bad - American slaves were happy and well cared for."

Take a look at what the Republican Party is really doing.

[candy331]

133. scbluevoter, you are correct,, the Dems could and should have beat the

repugs at this since Blacks have been voting enmasse Democratic for the longest and still are. Such a shame that Dems don't practice what they preach in this party. Sure Condi is not respected by many in the Black community but the old saying "blood is thicker than water" has a bearing on this, many Blacks do see this as Whites beating up on a black and a female at that, silly yes, but unfortunately that is the way it is. The repugs would put the devil in charge if it meant they kept power so Condi could be president but Dems would never ever have seriously considered Carol Mosely Braun, heck I kept hearing past error of hers right here on DU. Dems have a long ways to go.

[Tigress DEM]

166. Benefit of the doubt is cool, but there is a time when you gotta stand up.

Condi didn't and she is paying for it dearly.

I wish she could be someone I could trust. One of my more liberal friends thinks highly of her in some ways, but the point is Bush is setting these people up for the fall. At this point she's just another scapegoat. Bush makes the mistakes has her cover for him and then it's Condi that gets blasted.

This imposter president is the naked emperor and we need someone to stand up and say, "You are buck naked and you didn't win the election and you condone torture and are destroying the economy. Get out!"

Condi isn't that person.

[Tigress DEM]

168. Had a lot of respect for Colin Powell, but Bush never heeded...

Colin Powell's advise. Colin told him that whole torture memo was a bad, bad idea. Told him it would put our soldiers in jeapordy.

Bush had those high level meetings when they were discussing the truth and manufacturing the spin on Iraq and who did they leave out of these discussions? Colin Powell.

Only when they decided what pieces to present to him so he would sell America on WMD did they bring him in on it. HE had a lot of integrity and so we bought it, but if they'd told him the truth, I'm sure he would have had lots and lots to say about how flimsy the evidence was.

[itzamirakul]

205. Exactly....I have been saying this for some time...

The Democrats talk a good game about being racially inclusive and for the most part, the Democratic Party has been the ONLY Party to really support African American Civil Rights.

The Republicans however, put one or two black faces, with loyal RW minds into prominent positions and make it APPEAR that they VALUE African Americans when all it really is is window dressing. Condi, Colin, Clarence Thomas...These powerful African Americans don't give a shit what happens to the average African American. Their very behavior shows this.

The Dems on the other hand, have always been afraid to put a black person in a really prominent political position, afraid that the RW would then use that to call the Dems, "the Party of the African Americans" thus scaring off a lot of still-racist white Dems.

Can you see the double-speak here? The Repubs, with only a handful of black voters, put a few loyal blacks in very public, powerful positions. They then take credit for being more "forward-thinking_ racially than the Dems and thus a few less politically-aware blacks buy into the lie. White Repubs puff up with pride about "Our N.....s" that prove that we are NOT racist.

If the Dems were to put some African Americans in top positions, the Repubs would counter with this argument: "See, we told you they were the party of Affirmative Action and now they are being run by Welfare Queens."

White Dems, aware of this argument, have held back their extremely qualified African American members based on this fear.
The Dems still want to attract the racist white voters not only in the southern states but across America and Democratic Party leaders thinking is that having "too many blacks" out front would definitely scare them off.

Lately, I have been saying that perhaps the centrist Dems see this movement of some blacks to the Republican camp as a positive thing. Their reasoning might well be, "well if we split up the black vote, we weaken its power, so if some of them leave the party we can make up for it by attracting more of the moderate white Repubs who would come to the Dems if they weren't so afraid of being affiliated with the "Party of Black America."

Just because the Democratic Party was the Party that helped blacks achieve equal rights in the 60s doesn't mean that the leaders of the Party in the 21st century feel the same way.

I would like to suggest that DUers become acquainted with www.blackcommentator.com for a good insight (weekly) into the thinking of liberal African Americans. It is an excellent news and opinion site and gives in-depth information into both RW and Progressive African Americans.

[skylarmae]

6. a liar is a liar no matter what color

why is color even being brought up? Just as a diversion???

[incapsulated]

7. Fuck this shit

This is the same shit they pulled with the Thomas nomination.

I'm glad the Dems aren't being cowed by that bullshit again, and black folks who defended Thomas out of some sense of racial loyalty are ashamed of themselves today.

I'm stunned at Andrew Young, honestly.

[BootinUp]

102. Gosh, I kinda am too.

I saw something about this at another board but couldn't believe it at first.

[Supersedeas]

111. kind of smell like a social promotion argument, no? Thomas/Rice

[sandnsea]

8. C. Delores Tucker

"Tucker also serves as a member of the advisory board of the Parents Television Council whose president, L. Brent Bozell, is founder of Cybercast News Service."

That about sums it up. L. Brent Bozell, funded by Bradley Foundation, Heritage, AEI, etc. She probably voted for Bush.

On edit:

In fact, CNSNews is owned by L. Brent Bozell.

[Roland99]

10. Another DINO?

[pnorman]

27. CNSNews!!!

I just skimmed through the article, but overlooked it. Very glad you spotted it. I'll look it up again, but I'm pretty sure that Scaife also had his greasy paws in that outfit.

pnorman

[politicasista]

37. She is a harsh critic of hip-hop

Mainly gangsta rap. She has feuded with Tupac Shakur's mom after he was murdered nine years ago. But she is anti-everything that insults black women.

[Tomee450]

63. And I understand

that Andrew Young is on the board of certain corporations. He is not the same Andy Young of the civil rights era.

[Roland99]

65. According to this...

http://www.chautauqua-inst.org/Lectures/young.html

Ambassador Andrew Young serves as member of the Board of Directors of numerous businesses and organizations, including Archer Daniels Midland, Atlanta Market Center, Cox Communications, Delta Airlines, Film Fabricators and Thomas Nelson Publishing. He serves on the Advisory Board of Argus Newspapers, Barrick Gold, The Martin Luther King Center for Nonviolent Social Change and The United Nations Foundation.

[salin]

74. Barrick Gold?

Is that the bushsr related outfit that was involved in some atrocities related to mining disputes (don't recall the whole story but something about bulldozing people into the ground.... was a pretty heinous story). *sigh* if it is... *very, very sad*

[yardwork]

78. Atlanta is one of bushco's hubs

Atlanta is a key hub in the bushco empire. Many huge bushco financial backers have corporations or law firms in Atlanta. Many of the "Brooks Brothers Riot" participants who shut down the recount in Florida in 2000 were young Atlanta attorneys.

[Geek_Girl]

99. Isn't that Free Republic Poster Buckhead

who frenzied up the CBS memo-gate incident from Atlanta? I think your right. It seems Atlanta is a hub of Bushco. operatives.

[Tomee450]

79. Thank you.

Sometimes money changes people.

[Tinoire]

122. Blinking. Cannot believe my eyes Sandnsea!

In about 6 months, you will be announcing that you have officially become a Leftist. Mark my words.

Once you get to: "That about sums it up. L. Brent Bozell, funded by Bradley Foundation, Heritage, AEI, etc. She probably voted for Bush.", it's downhill from there.

Truly. I really am blinking. :thumbsup: Nice piece of work

[sandnsea]

153. You don't get me at all

I am liberal on all of my views. Liberal. Not LEFT. When I refer to leftists, I mean real leftists, communist/socialists who couldn't find a good thing about the US if they did nothing but think about it for the next 20 years.

I think single payer is the way to go. That'll happen. :eyes: And Laura Bush will suddenly have something to say. So I support good progress and find no purpose in beating down Democrats who do the same. That's the difference.

If one is a leftist, be a leftist, loud and proud. Don't pretend to be a Democrat. If one is a Green, go be a Green. Educate people and build a movement. But don't beat down Democrats who are trying to make things better for people in the meantime. I'm sick of the distortions, hyperventilating, and conspiracy theories behind every action a Democrat takes that doesn't tow the leftist, or even liberal, line. I'm sick of good Greens getting side-tracked by LEFTIST bullshit. I'm sick of all of us losing because we're scattered and the right is unified. We ought to be able to debate without killing each other.

I'm for hope, I'm for solutions, I'm for lifting people up.

www.lightupthedarkness.org

You might be surprised.

[Tigress DEM]

174. I really like your posts.

:hi:

[Kahuna]

194. Amen, amen and amen, Sandnsea. I agee 100% with:

your lovely post. Like you, I'm a liberal. But not of the commie or socialist branch, trying to infiltrate the Democratic party. I agree that people should be what they really are and say what they really are. I've been saying that from day one.

[Cell Whitman]

155. JUMP

If you would have told someone in 1978 that Moon would be this mainstream and have so much to do with our nation's politics, they would have jumped out the window on the spot. He's everywhere you look but no one sees him.

http://www.wewillstand.org/media/media_0516.html

Author Stephen R. Covey, culture critic C. DeLores Tucker and entrepreneurship leader Bishop Harold Calvin Ray were among dozens of faith-based and community leaders honored last night by The Washington Times Foundation. ....

More than 60 congressmen and senators came to the Capitol Hill event to greet award winners from their states.The Times Foundation also presented a special Lifetime Service Award to the Rev. Sun Myung Moon for his more than 30 years of investment in America.

Rev. Moon, who attended with his wife, Hak Ja Han Moon, and several of their children, was praised for his commitment and vision in starting many humanitarian organizations, as well as his leadership and courage in speaking out about social and family problems.
...
The Times Foundation honored six individuals and couples for their national-level accomplishments, including: Mr. Covey, the father of nine children and author of "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People"; Mrs. Tucker, president of the National Council for Black Women, who gained national stature for her stand against "gangsta rap"; and Mr. Ray, a West Palm Beach, Fla., minister who has created a massive entrepreneurship system with 20,000 churches to "eliminate historic poverty."

[sandnsea]

157. We have GOT to get this out there

I know some right leaning Christians who would be horrified to learn this has all been orchestrated by a handful of wealthy corporatists. I know some fundie Christians who would be horrified to learn of the moonie connection. We need to be placing fliers on car windshields at churches, just like they do.

[marions ghost]

209. good idea

I think we liberals of any stripe need each other and should reach out to our friends and neighbors--work for what we truly believe in.

[southlandshari]

170. Good work, sandnsea!

n/t

[PROGRESSIVE1]

9. Mr. Young should understand that this is NOT a question....

of race but a question of qualifacations.

:eyes:

[kcwayne]

17. It is not a question of qualifications

It is a question of integrity.

[Tigress DEM]

175. Should and Does are 2 different things. n/t

[count_alucard]

11. yeah

they also hate when people call OJ a murderer.

[scbluevoter]

48. Excuse me. . .

"they" are the people that vote for this party at more than a 90% rate. With comments like yours being posted in rooms like this, look for that to shrink.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Connie_Corleone]

64. What a stupid comment. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

91. What rubbish!

Your comment could serve to drive my people from this party -- not cause us to further embrace it... Luckily, we are smart enough to see through your all too transparent efforts. Go back under whatever rock you climbed from under with that nonsense!

[purji]

12. Sorry but I am judging Rice

by the content of her character not the color of her skin.
She has proved herself to me, to be a lying Bush apologist.

[Jacobin]

14. Get fucking real

"Democrats"?

:puke:

[ynksnewyork2]

15. There are alot more

out there complaining. See the Black Coalition on CSPAN yesterday?? There's a strengthening group going after Byrd. The Klansman references are coming out now. This group said he used the N word in a speech in 2001. That tape will be circulating very soon. Of course there will be a backlash, it's expected.

[Tomee450]

68. What prominent African American

besides Andrew Young has supported Rice? Has any member of the Congressional Black Caucus expressed support for her? Have we heard from Maxine Waters, Jessie Jackson Sr. or Jr, Sheila Jackson Lee or any of the black mayors around the country? What about the head of the Urban League, the NAACP. The NAACP gave Rice an award and what did she do but fail to support them in their feud with the White House.

[Tigress DEM]

177. Start at the top to know what is being discussed first off...

Jessee Jackson - definately NO - but in the middle of the thread there are a few more instances that show the repub spin machine is at it again.

In your post you confirm that Rice is following Bush's role model, which for me is the most telling thing. Just like Bush she'll say what's needed in order to get the right press and then dump the people who supported her. It's unfortunate she didn't honor the NAACP they way they honored her.

[iwantmycountryback]

105. So let's see

3 people with fewer than 60 posts are saying something negative about Democrats. Nothing suspicious there.

[southlandshari]

172. "Black Coalition"?

Is that the title of an actual organization?

[Kota]

16. Frist lined up with 5 blacks next to him at the press conference

yesterday, I'd say they are playing the race card.

[Roland99]

20. Without a doubt.

[bowens43]

50. Of course they are .

They are counting on Democrats to back down to avoid the appearance of being racist. The neo-cons have been pushing this 'if you don't support a neo-con or conservative who happens to be a minority then you are a racist ' bullshit for the last few years. Condi is scum. She is an ignorant, war-mongering piece of human garbage and it has nothing to do with her race.

It's a lot like the repugs saying that we are intolerant because we don't tolerate hatred and bigotry.

[Stand and Fight]

93. Then we counter-attack!

What the hell is wrong with our party when it comes to strategy? If they pull a few token blacks out, then we pull out the big guns like Jesse Jackson to speak against Condileeza Rice! Then they can't play the fucking race card -- fight fire with fire. Hell, I wish I was prominent in the black community now, I'd be the first to sign up to denounce that knave's confirmation!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ComerPerro]

19. The country does need a strong, wise Secretary of State

Where can we find one?

What we don't need is someone with a record of failure and lies like Condi's.

[JI7]

21. this is a right wing source

[xultar]

22. OMFG!!!!!! MOST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD ARE WHY BLACKS

WILL VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS.

WHITE LIBERALS DON'T GET IT!!!!!

You're screwing yourselves right into the ground.

[moggie12]

53. OMFG!! Don't you understand what they're saying??

You seem to be looking at this from a rather narrow perspective, worried mostly about whether blacks will desert the Party.

I am white but I know many black people -- they are not dumb. I think blacks are fully capable of separating the issue of race from a person's actions. Don't you think they are?? Your main argument seems to be that blacks will desert the Party en masse because they are unable to make such a distinction.

[bowens43]

54. YOU don't get it.

To support someone just because of their race is a form of racism.

[Jackie97]

57. Some blacks will do that. Yes.

Most blacks are still voting Democrat. Most blacks I know of still don't like people like Rice.

However, you are right. There is racism on both sides. Even though there are MORE black senators and house reps than on the Democratic side than there are on the Republican side, we need to work on getting some of black Democrats into powerful positions. And don't tell me no black Democrat is qualified. I'm sure there's got to be somebody.

Actually, Bush does this on purpose to make people think he's not a racist. It's not working on most blacks that I know.

[iwantmycountryback]

107. Yes you're right there are more black Dems in Congress than Repubs

In fact, there are NO black Republicans in Congress. If any prominent Republican were to say we're being racist or something, they'd clearly be playing the race card and look like the fools they are.

[xultar]

212. That's not true. The Black republican vote in this election increased

signifigantly. When 3 black churches with a combined participation of 50,000 have pastors @ the helm speaking for Bush it's a problem.

Are you black? Check yourself cuz I don't think you know what you're talking about here. They are buying this crap not from Bush directly but from their Pastors. Bush is getting to the people through the pastors.

[tavalon]

223. And thank goodness for that

but, to throw out a generalization (the first in this thread - not!) most blacks are far more discerning than many whites. They've spent far more time being handed shit and being told it's fertilizer so they don't buy it as easily as the rest of us.

[sandnsea]

86. OMFG, she already IS a Republican

Don't you get it?

[Stand and Fight]

97. Clarify something for me please.

Are you saying that comments like "they get mad if you call OJ a murderer" are what will cause us to leave the party? If so, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point. However, if you are saying that opposing Condileeza Rice's confirmation as SoS is a reason that "white liberals don't get it," then I think you're missing the point of the MAJORITY of the comments on this thread. I will say that my interpretation is that you don't like some of the comments on here that are like the former question I've presented to you...

ON EDIT: Nevermind... I just referenced your post number on this thread in relation to the comments you were complaining about... You obviously have missed the point of the people posting in opposition to Condileeza Rice -- you're playing the race card. It is not an idea of race, but an idea of "right." Condileeza Rice may be qualified for the job, but that does not make her the right person for the job. It has absolutely nothing to do with "white liberals" not getting it -- that is hogwash and you would do yourself credit to reflect on the audacity and absurdity of your comments. I'm black and I think you've completely distorted the issue.

[DrWeird]

124. So you're saying black people are stupid?

Because a person would have to be stupid for any comment here to drive a person from the democratic party.

[fujiyama]

159. Please explain

why "white liberals don't get it"? And what is this about "us" screwing ourselves into the ground? Are you not a liberal or a democrat? Now, I did see one or two offensive statements (like that idiot bringing up OJ), but a majority have not mentioned race at all.

The problem I see is that people are looking at race as the most important factor in appointing a person to high government positions.

Guess what? If Rice had the same terrible record and she was white, I'd be just as disgusted with her.

To most DUers and liberals, her race (just as Gonzales's) is irrelevant. She is incompetant. He approved torture. Just as likely I would prefer that Bush not be president. I consider him a war criminal. I prefer that such people are not given high positions in society.

[ultraist]

176. You cannot keep minorities in low end positions forever and NOT expect

to be accused of racism.

OPEN THE DOORS AND LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD.

RACE AND SEX DO MATTER in that respect. There are PLENTY of qualified WOMEN AND BLACKS FOR HIGH LEVEL POSITIONS but WHITE MALES still hold a disporportionate amount of these positions. THAT IS RACIST AND SEXIST.

[Kahuna]

193. No offense, Xultar. You know that I love you to pieces... But...

You have yet to make a case for your stance about why it is foolish for for these white liberals to criticize Young. So,if you can be more specific, please do so. And, BTW, Young has been mostly MIA as far as being a civil rights leader goes. I think most people would wonder where the heck he has been and what the heck has he been doing. I know that I myself has wondered for years why Young dissapeared from the national stage. However, if this is where his head is at in the year 2005, I say, stay away Young.

For the record, I haven't read the article because I don't like cns. I'm basing my comments on "if" he really did say that and on the general discussion that is occurring in this thread.

[slor]

23. I am AA and I...

condemn her !

[xultar]

24. You are informed. They are not. If you are really black you'd know

what the deal is.

[Dhalgren]

29. Who are the "they" you speak of?

I haven't seen any racist or anti-African American statements here (maybe I missed it). But if a rational person is not able to disagree with the content of a person's character, because that will brand that person a racist or someone who "doesn't get it", then how would you have anyone judge anyone's character?

[slor]

66. Not to quote that liar rice but...

who are you to impugn me by saying "if you are really black..." ?

[Tomee450]

72. I am black and find

your attitude insulting. Most black are more informed than you think. I know blacks who are not that well educated but who keep up with what is going on in the world. They are quite familiar with Dr. Rice and do not like her at all. Many, many people sided with Harry Belafonte.

[Tinoire]

123. C'mon Xultar - you KNOW we can smell bull-shit from a mile away

That's still the case in my neck of the woods at least.

Mention Condi's name down the streets of Baltimore and watch the reaction to that house N.

[incapsulated]

132. Please clue me in, xultar

What is this black woman missing? I must have missed those Condi house parties, why wasn't I invited?

Please.

Everyone learned their lesson with Thomas. Those that did not are too fucking stupid to deal with, period.

[tavalon]

224. Oh no, "they" have been invoked

this is a conversation on the fast track to nowhere, IMO.

[Voltaire]

44. I'm AA too

And her sex or race have NOTHING to do with my opposition. She is a congenital liar. She is a graduate of the Evelyn Wood School of High Speed Lying.

Anything else that is bandied about is bullshit. If Andy Young and C. Delores Tucker don't understand that and cannot see that they are being used by fascists....I ain't got time for their shit either. Dumbasses.

[AspenRose]

116. "Evelyn Wood School of High Speed Lying"

That's a great line. And I agree with you (bi-racial).

[tavalon]

225. I love that line too

Unfortunately, I'm not entitled to an opinion in this little discussion (I lack the requisite skin color and that appears to be more important than anything else here).

[Kahuna]

192. Right. Her uselessness has nothing to do with her race. It has to

do with her guile.

[Vinnie From Indy]

208. LOL - Well Done! n/t

[Dhalgren]

26. This just goes to show you that the

blood-thirsty imbecility rampant in this benighted country knows no color boundaries...

[paineinthearse]

28. Challenge the presumption

"Why are Senate Democrats debating the qualifications..."

Show me a quote. Biden and Boxer are going out of their way to praise her education. I have not read one word of debate about her qualifications.

Sounds like it's letter to CNS time.

[txaslftist]

38. various dem senators were all over her yesterday.

[paineinthearse]

43. Care to elaborate

Specify. Who said what?

[txaslftist]

51. Shoot...wish I could.

I know that Harry Reid was among them, I listened to it on Air America whilst driving yesterday.

One memorable quote was:

"I don't like questioning anyone's integrity...
but I don't like being lied to...

...it's undemocratic, it's unamerican and it's dangerous, very dangerous."

That was a senate dem, believe it or not. I wish I could recall the name, it's on the tip of my tongue.

[charlie]

55. Dayton n/t

[txaslftist]

61. Thanks, that's it.

[fujiyama]

161. And he was right...

Rice did lie. She lied to everyone when she went around making the case for Iraq - as did Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Powell, et al.

This isn't about race. Not one person in the confirmation hearings said anything that could be taken as a racial insult.

This is bullshit and Bush has played a clever game. He started it four years ago and is continuing today. It's an attempt to split a loyal constituency from the party.

Fortunately most blacks are smarter than that and know that voting for republicans is NOT in their best interest.

[Tigress DEM]

179. Found it! Mark Dayton

http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/012705B.shtml

3rd in a 3 Part article:
1 Boxer - New Democratic Tone, 2 Senate Confirms Rice

3 In Senate, Democrats Assail Rice and U.S. Policy in Iraq

"I don't like to impugn anyone's integrity, but I really don't like being lied to repeatedly, flagrantly, intentionally," said Senator Mark Dayton, Democrat of Minnesota. "It's wrong; it's undemocratic; it's un-American; and it's very dangerous. It is very, very dangerous. And it is occurring far too frequently in this administration."

[paineinthearse]

41. My letter to CNS "news"

Ref: Black Democrats Don't Like Senate's Treatment of Rice
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Morning Editor
January 26, 2005

Re: "Why are Senate Democrats debating the qualifications of a woman whose accomplishments speak for themselves..."

Show me one direct quote where one Senate Democrat has channenged Dr. Rice's qualifications. In the testimory I have observed and read, they are going out of their way to express their admiration for her education and background.

What they are objecting to is Dr. Rice's role as lead architect of the Bush administration's abysmal and failed middle east policy, not to mention her history and continuing propensity to lie to the American people and her continued lack of judgment.

It matters not that she is a black woman.

CNS “news” is little more than a right wing spin outlet, dedicated to shifting attention off the core of the issues.

Paine B, Notlob, MA

[Roland99]

59. Bravo

[EC]

30. How do we know, these quotes weren't taken and printed out

of context? The RW press (the whole RW for that matter) are really good at taking words and twisting them for their means...

[GetTheRightVote]

31. I had a great deal of respect for Col. Powell until he supported *

and this illegal war as I do Ms. Rice. She lied to the American Public and this can not be ignored because she is a black woman. It does not matter what color or gender, etc. It matters that she lied to us and this is the key to a no vote today in the Senate. She is not suited to be in this position and her color does not make it so period. Soldiers of every color are dying in the fields of Iraq, do the civil rights organization care for them as well. These Americans died behind Ms. Rice's lies and many of them are black as well. So get over it everyone, she was wrong then and is wrong now.

:kick:

[murray hill farm]

32. and..........

Uncle Tom(ing) still is alive and well in american politics.

[kslib]

42. Eloquently stated.

:yourock:

[txaslftist]

35. If race is the issue, is the appointment based on race?

Was Condi picked because she is black and therefore bulletproof? Or was she picked because she is "qualified"?

If she was picked because she is black, the republicans should acknowledge that she is an affirmative action hire, and we should debate the merits of affirmative action.

If she was picked because of her qualifications, then her qualifications and prior actions are fair game for debate, same as if she were white, hispanic or martian.

Or are senate dems supposed to just back off of anyone who is black because the higher goal of getting blacks into positions of prominence trumps any serious discussion of her merits?

She's getting hammered because she's a Bush appointment and the dems are finally growing a spine; also because she's a proven liar. Her race has nothing to do with it.

[Tigress DEM]

182. Loyalty to Bush is the repub yardstick these days n/t

[Jackie97]

40. SOME black Democrats.

I don't think these people speak for all blacks. I saw a poll on BET the other say saying that most people thought that bringing the troops home was the number one priority. Of course you realize blacks did most of the voting in that being BET and all.

Some black leaders are wanting this so badly because a black woman has never been in this high of a position before. The Democrats have made a mistake by not beating the Republicans to this punchline. We've had black senators and so forth, but nothing this powerful. I'd like to have a black woman secretary of state if she wasn't promoting racist wars. Why don't people think about that?

[Vinnie From Indy]

46. Dr. King Should Be Our Guide!

"they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Your news source is a load of crap and reading it will make you stupid!

[Roland99]

49. Oh, I don't care for CNS at all!

It's these Black Democrats making it into a seemingly racial issue when it's not that pisses me off!!

[Tigress DEM]

183. King's words are as true now as they were then. Thanks n/t

[Darknyte7]

52. I do not support Dr. Rice foe SOS, however...

I have noted that the "whipping boys" (and in Dr. Rice's case, girl)for the administration in the last few months have been minorities. See Armstrong Williams, Alberto Gonzalez & Ken Blackwell.

Quite a "coincidence", no? *sarcasm*

[salin]

58. ya... funny how cheney, bush, rove,

frist, santorum, get off without any criticism ;-)

[yardwork]

82. Ken Blackwell did it to himself

I agree with the overall point of your post, if I understand it, but I can't agree that anybody made Ken Blackwell a whipping boy. He did it to himself with his constant, ongoing illegal actions in Ohio.

[Darknyte7]

88. Absolutely...

Not only did Kenny Blackwell do it to himself (in the words of Charlie Pierce "Ken Blackwell’s done everything but hold a press conference in a pirate suit."), but so did Armstrong Williams, Alberto Gonzalez and yes Condi Rice.

It just sickens me that they all allow themselves to be pimped by the administration the way that they so clearly are.

[Tigress DEM]

184. But he has not allowed anyone to impugne him...

He doesn't show up in court and gets an injunction to keep people from "harrassing" him.

Um, let me see. He was supposed to see to it the elections were run fairly and he was brought a lot of evidence of wrong doing on his part and others that constitute voter fraud. Hmmmm. Asking him to do his job is harrassing him how?

[tgnyc]

84. That's because Buish is increasingly relying on minorities

to do his shit work for him.

[AspenRose]

120. *Ding* *Ding* *Ding* *Ding*

We have a winner! (Of course it doesn't hurt them that when democrats jump all over them, they can turn the tables and say it's democrats who are racist, when it's a character issue and not a race issue.)

And shame on those who are stupid enough to fall for it and do Bush's shoveling in the name of 'republican party inclusion.' SHAME!

Republicans are masters at muddying the waters, especially if they can exploit people with emotionally charged issues.

[tavalon]

226. Yep

and to take the rap for him. That doesn't mean I excuse any of this behavior by the blacks, whites or martians who pimp themselves to this regime.

[me b zola]

89. I noticed this pattern a little while back

They are no longer able to openly spew their racist beliefs, so they have found a sinister way to use and degrade people of color.

Racist never go away, they just reinvent themselves.

[Darknyte7]

95. "Racist never go away, they just reinvent themselves."

How true is that!!

Let's not however discount the long standing willingness of a few minorities to sell their own people out too.

[DulceDecorum]

56. Former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall said

“A Black snake will bite you just the same as a White snake". Marshall was advising against the confirmation of the wrong kind of Black to the high court. Sadly, there hasn't been a Black member of the Supreme Court since Marshall stepped down.
http://www.aframnews.com/html/2003-03-05/roxanne.htm

And that goes DOUBLE for that Uncle Ben's Rice.

[Darknyte7]

73. How true, how true... eom

[Maat]

150. This law student wishes that Justice Marshall had lived forever.

n/t

[tavalon]

227. Ouch n/t

[AntiCoup2K4]

62. So basically, as long as Junior appoints "minorities" to his cabinet...

...we have to accept them without question, regardless of their incompetency or complicity in war crimes, or else we're racists??

FUCK THAT!! :grr:

[ecstatic]

67. I can see this from two perspectives

I was talking with my parents about this today. They agreed that racism has nothing to do with this and that Condoleeza Rice should not be promoted. On the other hand, as an African American woman, I'm happy to see a black person promoted to such a high position(although I wish she were working for our side).

Rice, just as any other person who gets in there, will be a mouthpiece for this admin. Period. Really, we wouldn't even be talking about Condi were it not for the Dems staying silent in 2000. Why are they suddenly so vocal (and about the wrong things, no less)? Silent when it counted, vocal when it's moot?

[Tomee450]

76. As an

African American, I was happy to see two blacks appointed to such high positions. However each has been a disappointment. It bothers me that Rice is seen to be so incompetent. Does that help blacks at all? The first black National Security adviser is seen all over the world as untruthful, as a supporter of a war that has killed thousands of people? Does it help black people that Colin Powell no longer is as respected as he was before becoming Secretary of State? The first two blacks to hold such high positions now have tainted reputations. I think it is a mistake for anyone to think of this as a race issue. Most people who criticize rice are not doing so, IMO, because of her race but because of her performance in office. I have no hatred of Rice, just a lot of sadness.

[ecstatic]

87. True

Good points. It is very sad.

[Baconfoot]

69. Q:How do you question an African American's competence &not appear racist?

(in politics)
ANSWER: You can't. Furthermore, you shouldn't be able to. There is presumption of racism which must be overcome in such a case because we still live in a country where racism is rampant and where it can plausibly be said that one race has far more power than all the others combined. If most whites are to some greater or lesser extent racist, and you are a white person making a claim of incompetency against a non-white person, it's not unreasonable for someone to suppose that you are more likely than not racist. Therefore, the claim of incompetency is more likely than not accompanied by racism. If a claim of incompetency were IN FACT accompanied by racism, I feel one could directly conclude that the claim in question is at the very least exaggerated. Therefore, when a white person makes a claim of incompetency against a non-white person, someone might be reasonable in concluding that the white person's claims are more likely than not at least exaggerated.

Notice that legitimacy of the judgment of the white person in question is completely independant of the racism of or any racism on the part of the person making the judgment. The judgment is one of "more likely than not", and it is just like a judgment that if you have a bag containing 4 red marbles and 5 blue marbles and 10 cubes, then if you reach into the bag to draw out an item and grab something spherical, the next item is more likely than not blue.

But the presumption of exaggeration of the claim of incompetence due to racism can be overcome by demonstrating the incompetence.
And Rice's incompetence has been demonstrated again and again.
(Note on terminology: Someone can be a genius and yet, for example, an incompetent chef, clothing designer, or say... Secretary of Defense)

I question the judgment of ANY democrat who votes for Rice's confirmation.

[Solly Mack]

75. Mr Young, Sir. You marched with a man that said content of character

was what mattered. Who hoped that the day would come when people would be judged not by their color of their skin but rather the content of their character.

Have you forgotten that man, Mr Young? Have you forgotten what he stood for? What he died for?


Condi Rice has been judged and found wanting...her character is of an ill nature.

That she got the confirmation speaks poorly of America.

This is not to say America is free of racism, for this country has a long row to hoe in that regard. But that doesn't mean we yield integrity and honor. Integrity and honor both demand we judge Condi Rice by her actions, and her actions have been harmful to America.

She's not the only guilty party, and we should not rest until all have been judged for their actions against America and the American people.

[orthogonal]

80. "a woman whose accomplishments speak for themselves"

Yeah, he accomplishments speak for themselves.

And that's why the only right thing to do was vote against her.

How many young black men have dies in Iraq?

How many would be alive if Condi hadn't lied?

[GiovanniC]

81. Rice's Accomplishments Speak For Themselves

Specifically, they say, "I am a complete, utter, and total fuckup."

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

Well, those who criticize Condi Rice are not judging her by the color of her skin, but on the content of her character. Such as it is.

[tgnyc]

83. Condi Rice doesn't deserve shit

and is lucky her ass isn't being brought up on international war crimes charges.

www.intelligencesquad.com/id103.html

[CWebster]

94. That would be like saying I should defend her just because

she is a woman.

[nickinSTL]

96. so, if we don't support Rice, we're racist?

Isn't that what that boils down to?

Give me an African-American woman with the credentials and without a history of lying to Congress and the American people, and I'd be happy to support her.

[springhill]

98. Interesting..........

I just watched a special recently on PBS about Martin Luther King. Andrew Young marched with him and supported him during that time. It was all about change without violence. I believe his views have changed. I remember him supporting the war in Iraq, and if his support of Bush's spreading democracy around the world (through violent takeovers) is any indication of his current beliefs, he has obviously abandoned the tenants by which Martin Luther King lived his life.

[Roland99]

101. This is an Unjust, Evil and Futile War - MLK, Jr.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5054

[tgnyc]

110. They must see Americans as strange "liberators" - MLK

check out the video: www.intelligencesquad.com/id101.html

[mattclearing]

100. I'll take Aaron MacGruder's word for the African American Point of View.

He called her Darth Vader.

Even though MacGruder is more of a progressive borderline radical than a Democrat, I think his point of view is generally more in line with that of the black community than this elected official.

[kwassa]

220. You would be wrong to do that

you need to talk to many African-Americans

[Bethany Rockafella]

103. Her qualifications is not what they are arguing people!

It's the lies she told as NSA. Besides, when you get that high up you should be able to take what's dished out. She is no different than anyone else.

[FrenchieCat]

104. This Black Democrat over here believes that Rice is incompetent!

and should not have been confirmed.....And I have proof....so there....

[IronLionZion]

108. There are plenty of Black Americans that are better choices than Condi.

She would still be accountable if she was white or whatever. It's not her race, it's her dishonesty and hidden agenda. That's why she is a poor choice to represent the US when speaking with the world community.

[Bethany Rockafella]

114. Here is proof that I (an AA) is not being racist towards Ms. Rice....

When she was first appointed NSA, I watched all those years and respected her and thought her qualifications were profound. I would tell friends and family it's too bad she isn't a Democrat but I still support her. Then after 9/11 and how she just goes along with the Bushies, it made me lose respect for her. So I disagree with her nomination for SOS because of her past actions (and inactions). Not because she is black. It's really too bad she hooked up with the Bush republican machine, sure she may be the first black female NSA and SOS but when you lose the respect of people, you're nothing. And that goes for Colin Powell too.

[msgadget]

109. How can people of color demand to be treated equally when they

knee-jerk in response to criticism of one who just happens to share their skin color?? And, it is exactly this response the right encourages by constantly referring to her race, gender, Birmingham, Bull Connor and Martin Luther King. Odd that MLK's holiday was on every GOP member's lips this year when the president disrespected it last year. How can people be so easily manipulated??

This woman of color didn't fall for it and is disappointed in those who did.

[Bethany Rockafella]

115. Bingo!

[Tomee450]

141. AMEN!!

[Jamel]

112. SOMETHING IS WRONG

I'm beginning to think that some kind of blackmail or death threats are going on. This makes no sense.

[JoseRizal]

119. this is it if Dems and especially DUers start acting like this

This will be just the end of this party. Some of the people here are just too much, too elitist, yes Dr.Rice is not qualified in our views but we must object to her nomination for Sec.Of State wisely IMHO. Not to look and sound dismissive of her qualifications. We want an image to project to the American people that it is not her race that is preventing her from the job but her past actions as the head of the NSC that is precluding her from it.

We do not want our fellow Americans of African descent to develop an idea that we are preventing one of their own people from holding the title of SECRETARY OF STATE. Some of you dont see it but I think Pres.Bush is a "VERY CALCULATING AND SHREWD MAN" HE KNOWS THAT BY CHOOSING DR.RICE FOR THE POST OF STATE THE MEDIA WILL BE MORE THAN POSITIVE WITH THEIR VIEWS ON HER. AS DR.RICE IS A SUCCESS STORY, A STORY THAT MOST AMERICANS ESPECIALLY, BLACK AMERICANS WILL APPRECIATE IMMENSELY. THE FACT THAT SHE WAS A HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL PROVOST, A VERY VERY SMART BLACK WOMAN SENDS A MESSAGE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT THE IDEA OF REPUBS BEING RACIST OR DISCRIMINATORY IS WRONG.

THEIR IDEA THAT THEY PUT BLACK PERSONS ON VERY IMPORTANT GOVT. ROLES ARE NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN BUT OF THEIR RESPECTIVE ABILITIES. JUST LIKE WHAT PRE.BUSH IS DOING WITH ATTY.GEN.GONZALES, WITH HIS RAGS TO RICHES OR SUCCESS STORY RESONATES WITH THE LARGE HISPANIC POPULATION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT WANT TO THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY COMPRISES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ELITIST, THINKS THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINK SOME OF DUERS SOUND HERE. PARDON MY CONCLUSION IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT, BUT I STRONGLY FEEL THAT WE ARE LOSING TOUCH WITH REALITY AND WE'RE SO BLINDED BY OUR HATRED WITH GEORGE BUSH AND THAT IS JUST THE TRUTH.

CONSERVATIVES ARE SO GOOD PUSHING THE BUTTONS OF THE SOFTY LIBERALS.

[Tinoire]

125. If you don't hate Bush, what are you doing here?

:shrug:


Spreading the love?

Let me tell you something Bucko. THIS African-American woman says you're totally full of shit.

Yes sireeeeee, I jes loves them Republicans for showing me that if I work hard enough, I too can aspire to be a house nigger. Yes siree! A house nigger fetching and carrying Master George Bush's water!! What an HONOR!

===

On edit. Never mind. Your previous posts answered my question.

Just curious. Did you learn anything in that thread you started about the USS Liberty? Why didn't you participate after starting it? Or was it just a rhetorical thread to see how far the flames would rise?

And no, the Dems will not be in trouble if McCain runs.

And also, thank you for the very informative thread "Sen.Boxer and the lefties allied with Islamic terrorist by Freepers."

[ebayfool]

190. Tinoire, good catch!

[livinginphotographs]

210. It's the old formula...

Someone with a low post-count posts in ALL CAPS about WE'LL KEEP LOSING ELECTIONS IF WE DON'T TURN INTO REPUBLICAN-LITE I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I WANT TO WIN ELECTIONS BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.

You'd think the trolls would come up with something more creative than that...

[xultar]

217. It is wrong to hate for some folks especially those who are religious.

I commend people who don't hate.

Think of the parents who don't hate Iraqis for killing their kids but turn against the Bush Administration.

Having hate for some one isn't a good thing. Iw ouldn't be so quick to aspire to hate and I wouldn't encourage people to hate.
Hate is what got Jews killed and Slaves Hung.

If there are people here that don't Hate Bush then I applaud them for being able to keep their emotions in check and their focus on the big picture.

[incapsulated]

129. Please show me where...

Any DU'er has attacked Rice over her race, rather than the fact that she is a lying, incompetent failure, appointed simply to carry out orders without question?

YOU are making the argument that the repukes want to sell so desperately, that we cannot criticize any person of color that they nominate because that makes the Democrats de facto racists or something.

What is so shameful, and stunning, to this woman of color, is that is exactly what I saw Andrew Young, I man I have had great respect for, say on CNN today. That the Democrats should kiss Condi's ass because she is black, and that because they dared to question her actual work record, they will be viewed as racist and offend black people.

Not only that, he also said we should all get on board with the Bush admin's grand plan for Iraq, and hope for the best!

It's like I'm in fucking OZ.

[AntiCoup2K4]

173. Nah, you ain't in OZ

The munchkin Senate would have anonymously voted NO on Condi and then dropped a house on her ass!

[Cats Against Frist]

204. They're good at lying, Jose

and they're good at logical fallacies, including the "style-over-substance" fallacy, the tu quoque fallacy, the slippery slope fallacy, the ad hominem fallacy, the ad populum fallacy and ESPECIALLY the fucking false dilemma.

Anybody with half a fucking brain knows that Condi is being opposed because she is a liar, and a neocon and has tarnished this country with her miscalculations, and perhaps killed Americans with her incompetence.

This is how Republicans won over so many dumb white people. Now, they're lying, using sensationalism, plotting, scheming, projecting and appealing to raw, ignorant emotion to try to peel away minority support for the Democrats.

They tried it with gay marriage during the election, and now with this fucking strawman horseshit with Condi and Gonzales.

I don't give a fuck if she's a "success" story. She's a liar. And to make the decision based on her race or to handle her with kid gloves because she's a minority woman with good credentials is a disgrace to black people, white people, and this entire fucking nation and its racial history.

[Kahuna]

216. I'm black and Condiliar IS NOT "one of my own." Is every white..

person or whatever race you are, "one of YOUR own?"

[American Tragedy]

113. I was just fine with Condi Rice until the rush to war with Iraq

More than thirty Marines were killed today. What am I supposed to do, somehow ignore her integral role in that?

Actually, like Colin Powell and perhaps Tony Blair, her intelligence and education makes it even worse - she should have known better.

[nolabels]

118. I have pride in my ignorance

War is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,WRONG,

(The people below are part of a some focus group, Mr Bush says)


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/Sep02articles.html

[Tinoire]

128. There really is NO excuse for Condi.

Your point is so true... No one can even pretend Condi is being had.

[WilliamPitt]

117. "but the country needs a strong, wise secretary of state"

Um...say hello to the point.

[Yupster]

127. This is a very shrewd effort of Bush's

to try to use Rice, Powell, gay marriage, social security etc to try to at least make A-A's question where they stand.

It's a no-risk strategy for him. If his whole effort backfires, are A-A's going to leave the Republican party in droves? From 9 % to what? 7 %? Not a whole lot of risk there.

On the other hand, any shaking up of the A-A vote could be a real benefit to Republicans. If a wedge can be driven where A-A's split 75-25, that would still be a huge gain for the Republicans and a huge loss for the Democrats.

Therefore, it's a shrewd and low risk effort he's engaged in.

On edit, Bush would also love a very public fight between A-A leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on one side and Rice on the other side. Something very ublic and extended would have A-A voters choosing which side they are on, and any fracture is likely to split better for Bush than the current 91 % - 9 %.

[fujiyama]

162. Exactly

Even if blacks don't flock to Bush and republicans, even if they vote in lower numbers or sit the election out, it could make a very big impact.

[kerstin]

134. Blacks are smarter than whites when it comes to these tactics

by the right. And it's the height of absurdity to accuse Senator Boxer of being racist because of her aggressive questioning of Rice when she was the one and only Senator to stand with the Black Congressional Caucus in objecting to the seating of the Ohio electors and the egregiously racist suppression of the black vote and intimidation of black voters in that state.

Al Sharpton was quoted as saying Condoleezza Rice was his color, but Senator Boxer was his kind.

[Joanne98]

139. This is BIGGER than being black. Or a woman!!!!!!!!!!!

9/11 August 6th memo. Bin Laden determined to strike in the United States. AND LYING about WMD! She shouldn't be SOS she should be IN PRISON. It's all those black preachers who are GETTING PAID OFF! With faith-based cash. I'm going to start calling them Armstrongs.

[greenohio]

145. It bothers me to read Dems saying this....

I hope CNS, the right wing propaganda machine, is wrong here. Are they other articles confirming this?

[Malva Zebrina]

147. A liar is a liar

and when those lies promote the slaughter of thousands upon thousands of innocent people, the color of the skin is not an issue,

To support condi's lies, just because she is black is racism.

To applaud her accomplishmets is one thing but to support her lies that have cause such agony and suffering, just because she is black, is another.

Nope, we do not have to do that. The use of the color of her skin in his appointment of her to NSA by the Bush administration is evident in some of these posts. She is unassailable because she is black and we do not criticize one who is black because it means we are biased, prejudiced, or bigoted.

A liar is a liar. One who lies when thousands upon thousands are killed is a criminal and color of skin is not a consideration.

We are to look upon anyone, male , female, black or white or brown or yellow or a combination of them all, as people with the same ambitions in this murderous administration.

Condi fails the test for principaled action and so did Powell and so did a lot of white people in this administration, including Ashcroft.

[deadparrot]

151. It doesn't matter what her skin color is;

it's the fact that she, as a representative of the POTUS*, LIED about intelligence and perpetrated this war, which has ended tens of thousands of Iraqi and American lives.

[izzybeans]

152. Perhaps this thread is an example of the impact of republican

politics. If you go back and read over this thread there is a large amount of uncertainty floating around. So much so people started to feel compelled to identify themselves under the rubric of race, even going so far to characterize whole communities of people. Frankly, if the vote was not about race then we shouldn't be skeptical of each others intentions here. This forced some to feel the need to identify as something and prove their unity, even though its principly based on division (categorization). WE all understood what was at issue in today's vote. WE stood united behind those who stood against Condi today, no matter our pigmentation. The fact that people started to divide, even for an instant above, (purely by identity category) tells me the repugs thoroughly racialized the issue. We wouldn't even be talking about race if it weren't for Repug the Orwellian. They pulled the pin and threw a big stink bomb in the middle of our democratic due :nuke: process, while being able to step back unscathed. If we are becoming skeptical of each other I wonder what the "red staters" (only the rw's living in them) think of us regardless of our skin color. It would be very unwise for us to allow the racialization of this issue go any further-not amongst the ranks here at least. It's forever a shame to watch allies crumble into arbitrary factions. Not when WE were the ones who had no race in our minds. Just how her lies begat mass death. Perhaps this was their plan all along. Attempt to leave us defensless on our own issue even-equality/civil rights--make the progressive look regressive. It stinks. It really does.

[IndianaGreen]

154. It is racism to believe that one's color of skin makes you qualified

just as much as it is to believe the opposite.

Condi Rice is one of the architects of the Iraq War, and one of the propagandists that spread the WMD lie. She is no more qualified to be Secretary of State than Gonzales is to be AG.

to help establish democracy, not only in Iraq, but around the world

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, Andy!

[Tigress DEM]

160. Lying comes from the heart, doesn't depend on skin tone.

Lot of good, honest black people out there who know when you talk out of both sides of your mouth you are lying. The color of your skin isn't a defense if you're white and it isn't if you're black either.

Whatever she did before Bush made her into a puppet is besides the point. If she can be made into a puppet, she shouldn't be in a position of that much responsibility.

[oasis]

167. Andrew Young dropped the ball on this one. Condosleazy should get the boot

:spank:

[SemperEadem]

169. Condoleeza Rice needs to learn how to tell the damn truth

Start with that, sell-outs.

[ultraist]

171. Kerrry did not have a SINGLE BLACK PERSON

in the upper levels of his campaign and PEOPLE NOTICED. Kerry LOST GROUND WITH THE AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS. Putting African Americans in HIGH POSITIONS DOES MATTER.

Democrats better WAKE UP and realize that while Bush may have done this as "tokenism" to gain votes, it is working. And Condi is a perfect match for them, she is extremely intelligent and loyal to their cause.

IT IS RACIST NOT TO APPOINT BLACKS TO HIGHER LEVEL POSITIONS. Yes, the Repukes have other racist policies, but, THEY ARE BREAKING THE GLASS CEILING AND OPENING THE DOORS TO POWERFUL POSITIONS TO BLACKS.

WHY WASN'T IT THE DEMOCRATS THAT APPOINTED THESE "FIRSTS"?

She was NOT APPOINTED because of her race, she IS well qualified and LOYAL TO THEM. THEY WANT LIARS AND LOYALTY.

I applaud Boxer for her comments but that is beside the point of what is going on here, in the bigger scheme of things.

WHY IS IT, WHITE MALES HOLD 99% OF THE TOP DEMOCRAT POWER POSITIONS? THAT IS BULLSHIT AND NEEDS TO STOP! THE REPUKES ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT LOOK HYPOCRITES.

WHITE MALES CAN'T HOARD ALL OF THE POWER POSITIONS FOREVER KEEPING WOMEN AND MINORITIES MARGINALIZED AND EXPECT NOT TO BE ACCUSED OF BEING RACIST AND SEXIST.

BTW, the title of that article, "Black Democrats" is very misleading. They cite TWO black Democrats, NEITHER OF WHOM are Congresswomen/men. TAlk about S T R E T C H I N G the truth.

[LittleClarkie]

178. I love factcheck.org

http://www.factcheck.org/article239.html

"CNN.com reported in mid-April that none of Kerry's top nine campaign positions were filled by people of color.

Those included campaign manager, campaign chairperson, media adviser, policy director, foreign policy adviser, general election manager, convention planner, national finance chairman, and head of the vice presidential search team.

The ad fails to mention that one of Kerry's deputy campaign managers is African American, according to CNN, which also listed as Kerry campaign advisers three African American members of Congress and one former Cabinet secretary who is also African American."

And...

"Also worth noting is that Bond's NAACP gives Kerry's voting record an average score of 94 percent positive over his 22 year tenure. The NAACP's congressional scorecard gave Kerry a perfect 100 percent rating in ten of those years."

(more)

[ultraist]

180. But still...the very top nine positions were all white

NAACP Chairman Julian Bond said of Kerry, "I don't think you can be a serious contender for the votes of people of color - if you don't have people of color making the decisions in your campaign."

Kerry DID lose ground with African American voters according to the exit polls.

Good source, btw! I had forgotten about factcheck

[LittleClarkie]

181. Indeed, glad they're still there...As for Bond, don't forget he also said

"Bond: (President Bush) has selected nominees from the Taliban wing of American politics, appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing and chosen Cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection."

So why Kerry would lose ground to Bush, of all people, is beyond me, except for recruiting minority folk for key positions. Great group of people: Blackwell, Condi, Gonzalez. Guess I should include Powell (why did the image of Colin in that hip hop outfit just pop into my head -- make it go away).

I'm glad Powell didn't let himself be trotted out for the convention again this year. And how can people like Blackwell live with themselves knowing they're helping to suppress the minority vote. It's all so... bizarre.

[msgadget]

213. Dr. Rice and Judge Gonzales are indeed firsts

and the Democrats are guilty of not being as inclusive as their past would warrant. But, this is a wholly separate issue from criticizing a PERSON - regardless of race - regarding job performance.

Dr. Rice wasn't proficient enough in her prior post to warrant greater responsibility. Cheney and Rumsfeld both worked around her, her hands off approach probably increased the intelligence vacuum and the president had to take over a portion of her responsibilities because she couldn't get the agencies to cooperate. In fact, we now have a whole NEW bureaucracy, imo, because of her failings.

So, yes, she's a black Ph.D and she probably was chosen more in payment for her loyalty than for her (fortuitous) double minority status, but criticizing a person's abilities and questioning their duplicity is not a racist act.

Seperately, the Democratic Party SHOULD be taken to task for not advancing women and minorities. You have no arguments from me on that AT ALL.

[tngledwebb]

185. Condi is a fool and a liar. And evil.

The regime picked her for those reasons and also because her gender and the color of her skin would make it difficult for Dems to vote against her. Worked with Clarence Thomas, worked with her.

[WCGreen]

186. Some people will say anything to get attention.....

I guess it's all right to lie to the public, mislead the country and send hundreds of black and hispanic kids to their untimely death.....

Yea, and OJ was done in by the CIA.....

[rman]

189. spin analysis:

the article actually mentions *two* blacks, one of whom is a congress member.

the introduction of the article presents this as "some prominent blacks".

the article headline spins this further into just "black democrats".

i'd be curious to know what the actual consensus is on Rice amongst black congress people and black senators.

[marcologico]

195. Let's just say they're pros at playing the race card. n/t

[Kahuna]

198. Young is internalizing his issues with the Carter Administration..

I don't recall the details right now and I don't have time to look them up before leaving for work. But Young was forced from his position with the Carter Administration because of some alleged impropriety. Anyone recall the details?

It seems that Young is presenting himself as a brother in arms with Condi. Because he thinks that the Dems are using her like the repukes used him to get at Carter.

[msgadget]

211. He met with the PLO

but Carter still gave him an award a couple years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Young

[drscm]

200. Mr. Young should read some Boondocks if he wants to see

what many of his fellow human beings of color think about Ms. Condi.

[demwing]

202. So, if I get this straight...

"bi-partisan mandate" is a new keycode for "shut the hell up and sit the fuck down."

Did I miss the memo that explains all this?

(grandpa_voice)"I remember back in the good old days when you had to earn respect! Politicians would walk 50 miles through frozen cow pies just to kiss a baby's heinie. Now THAT was the way to earn respect!

And when you claimed you had a mandate it because of all of those heinies you smooched who told their folk to vote for you--and they DID, damn it! Even if there were a flood, or an earthquake, or a flood and an earthquake, people voted back then. Now, this new fangled respect is like the Income Tax, you have to pay it even when you don't want to, and a mandate is nothing more than the ability to make the other guys shut the hell up. Hey George Bush? You can have a mandate to kiss MY heinie. Hee he hehcough ahck,,,,. Or hell. Where's my geritol?"(/grandpa_voice)

[Cats Against Frist]

206. Republicans have no shame, that's what's going on

This is just part of their playbook. If you step back from the madness and think about the bare claim: "The Democrats are trying to stop the appointments of Rice and Gonzales, because they are racist," on it's face, it is completely fucking ludicrous.

This is another part of their "Right-wing noise machine makes reality," game plan, and it's right in the playbook. It serves a double purpose for them to do this -- first, to score points on the Democrats by lying, and second, to obscure the fact that they've just appointed an incompetent liar to Secretary of State -- and, in an amazing feat of poor logic, they have combined, for this one, SEVERAL LOGICAL FALLACIES INTO ONE ARGUMENT. They are raising lying and prevaricating to a new art form.

1. False Dilemma: "Because the Democrats are grilling Rice and Gonzales, they MUST be racist."

2. Appeal to Emotion: "Doesn't that just piss you off, black people of America, that Democrats are attacking one of your own?? Doesn't that just make you enraged?"

3. "Style-over-Substance;" "Surely the Democrats can't be attacking Condi because she lied. The criticisms are invalid because (see false dilemma above) the Democrats are RACIST.

And CNS has added their own logical fallacy:

4. Argumentum ad populum: "Since this one Democratic mayor believes it, it MUST be true."

I swear to fucking God, people, the reason this is all so frustrating is because they have found a way to tap into the reactionary, fearful, indignant, fear-of-powerlessness, fear-of-the-other, and social darwinistic impulses of the human condition.

Please Remember the Suskind article. These people are "history's actors," and they are "making reality." They craft a message, true or not, geared to totalitarian mindsets and psychological weaknesses, and have their footsoldiers in the echo chamber REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT the bullshit, until it is a reality.

It's totally fucked up. I believe it's time that WE started looking out for our own.

[sellitman]

207. The scary thing is

After the Neo-con Fascists drop this kind of charge...they sit back and laugh their asses off while the Dem's scramble. Yes fellows Libs....the Freepers are hooting and hollering back on the ranch while we are scratching our heads responding to these nonsensical accusations.

[ultraist]

214. That IS exactly what the Repukes do, CatsAF

They are waging a brilliant propaganda campaign. Another prime example of this is how they call anyone who promotes seperation of church and state or freedom of religion a "religiophobe, heathen, pagan, God less" etc.

HOW MANY freakin' times did we see "news" shows about taking the Christ out of Christmas?

BUT, the fact remains, Bush DID APPOINT A BLACK WOMAN TO THIS POSITION FOR THE FIRST TIME. Did he have evil motives for doing so? Most likely he did. Do people perceive Condi's appointment solely as good or bad or based on her willingness to follow the company line? NO. People do see some good in this.

This is not to say that Democrats should allow race or gender to stop them from opposing anyone. But, Democrats need to get up to speed with putting high profile women and minorities on the forefront. We may have better broad sweeping policies, but the Repukes are currently beating us at breaking the glass ceiling for minorities to attain high level positions. Has the Democratic Party ever had a minority for DNC CHAIR?

WAKE UP CALL.

[robcon]

219. Yes, the DNC has had a minority chair...

The DNC chair 1989-1993 was Ron Brown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee