A Dean supporters response to Moore letter

[Melodybe]

It had me in tears, I'll be crying at my key board by the end of this.

I have watched my candidate go from 100% to 0% in a day, and it hurts. With the right PR Dean could have marched to the White house, saddly his inner circle is for shit. Now I am looking for another candidate that can excite the youngsters enough to get up off of their asses. If it is not Dean I don't know who it will be.

We need fire to keep this movement going and Kerry hasn't got it. Kerry was my 2nd choice the other day b/c of the fact he had opted out, unfortunately as Jon pointed out earlier he is dull as dirt. I live in MS and I can tell you now that these folks will not vote for Kerry. He was rich, he hangs out with the Kennedys, he is a Yankee, and has a very spotty past that Rove is just waiting to pounce on. However don't think for a moment that with the right candidate we can't win the south. People here are pissed at Bu$h,even the repubs are looking at him all shifty like, they have been lied to and they may not know it but it is slowly eating them away from the inside.

I used to really like Clark, but like Kerry nominating a millitary man is playing into the GOP's turf. The debates will be on the war on terror, not the very real problems we are having at home. With Clark I have new issues, I don't like Axicom and SOA. These are things that go against my moral fiber. I can not trust him, plus he told a bold faced lie while talking to Brokaw. He said that he NEVER supported the war. Well I can remember a few choice statements over at CNN back in Feb. of last year that are kind of contradictory. I really like Clark personally but I can not trust him. I want to really bad, he really sticks it to Bu$hco and I love it, but this election is too important for me to risk my vote.

Now to Edwards, well he was my first choice after I saw him on the Daily Show a year ago. I was really disappointed when I went to his web site and saw it all about terrorism. Then I switched to Dean. BTW I feel really betrayed right now, I feel like all of us little people held up our end of the bargain and then Dean/Trippi pissed on it. They should have had their PR people on top of things, we supporters certainly were! So now I am looking at Edwards again and I although I know he win the southern vote, I worry about his spending limits. Not opting out is going to hurt us. Maybe they can find someway around it, who knows. I think that Edwards just might want it more than any one else. He is good looking and that never hurts, plus he is almost as much of a DLC out sider as Dean and Clark. I think that his son of a mill worker line, while kind of corny, is resonating and people will trust him a whole lot more than they will Kerry. Maybe Dean can be his veep, while I hadn't really thought of Dean as a veep before I think that he could keep Edwards on target about the issues and keep Edwards edgy enough to be interesting. A Dean/Cheney debate would be interesting to say the least.

Now about Moore letter...
It is nice to be thanked for all the hard work I have been doing this year. All the letters, the Democratic campaigning, and all the voter registration won't stop. I still am going to one of my friends churchs to register voters on the first Sunday of next month, and I still will be going to other black churches here to preach the importance of ABB.
It is nice of Mr. Moore thank us for our hard work, his shameless Clark bit at the bottom I skipped past, but his letter was very much needed and was very touching. For some reason it is helping to release the frustration and disappointment I feel in my own drowning campaign.

I am using my time now to plead with everyone here that we get the vote out. Your candidate may or may not be the nominee, but we still have to work together. We Deaniacs started it but now we NEED your help to get ABB. We did help start waking America up but we can not let them go to sleep again. America is really tired, over worked, and poor right now, but we all have to get up every single morning and try to do something to keep this going. They are going to try and ignore every good thing that Dean has said and we can not let them. Even if you personally don't like Dean, he was our voice for just a moment. He was our voice for long enough to make people notice, and now our Nominee CAN NOT for get us. In Dean we now see someway to organize ourselves. Meet-ups, fundraising, talking the truth while the media lies to us. We have to all work together and make this country good again. We have to rage against the dying of the light or the whole world goes with us.

Thanks for your time,
Melodybe

[RafterMan]

1. I doubt it will change your mind...

...but remember that wanting to win the war once it started is not the same as supporting it.

That's how I felt, anyway.

[MercutioATC]

2. Melodybe, sorry to sound harsh, but you need to toughen up if you're

going to support a Presidential candidate.


Yes, the 3rd place finish in Iowa was disappointing, but with 49 states to go (and an overwhelming majority in the D.C. primary last week) it's hardly time to be "looking for another candidate".


There's no cause for despair...just vote your conscience. If it's Dean, Great. If it's somebody else, that's great, too. It's silly, however, to judge the fate of a campaign solely on the first caucus.

[wtmusic]

3. good advice

Dean's speech in NH today was awesome, and people were saying the same things about Kerry 1 month ago.

Disagree about the Moore letter. To me that's Moore at his worst. Righteous and self-absorbed, patting us on the head for 'all we've done', after one caucus.

[auburnblu]

5. I agree toughen up

Anyone remember the constant criticism Clinton endured, of course Bush gets it now. Criticism is part of the everyday reality of the president.

[Melodybe]

6. I'm not crying about Dean, I am totally pissed at him

They dropped the fucking ball! They are ignoring the very people they are suppose to be inspiring. I know personally for a fact that they are ignoring the folks on the internet and the young people working for them. Ryan, the head of generation Dean has been trying to tell them for months to go on the Daily Show, but he said that they don't listen to him. They should have had the PR together, their is no excuse for ignoring the 35 million people that are working too hard to pay attention to the news. Dean should have been going in to their homes, on shows that people actually watch like Letterman and the Daily Show reaching out to the American public, not stroking his own ego by going to see a few 1000 people that are already going to vote for him. He spent all his high profile time making a fool of himself by giving the media whores over at Faux news the time of day, which BTW they do not deserve! He did nothing but give them ammunition and they shot him with it.

So yeah, I am really really mad about Joe Trippi's complete failure to take this movement to the next level. It showed big time in Iowa and unless Dean gets his shit straight in about 1 week he is dead.

I am crying b/c I am moving on, letting go, focusing on the movement itself not just my candidate. If the nominee is Dean, I will work really freaking hard for him, but even if it is not I will work really hard anyway. This is not about President Dean and President Dean only, this is a movement to get rid of the evil mother fuckers in power that see us as peons. I want to see the bastards causing so much pain and suffering in this world powerless, a way from the big red button if you will.

THIS IS ABOUT SAVING AMERICA!!!

If that is not the priority of every single democrat in this country by november of next year, we loose, and I'll be seeing you in Europe.

Thank you for your time,
Melodybe

[Loren645]

10. Interesting that The Daily Show is a must stop for our candidates, eh?

But the fact is, it's a must stop.
Jon Stewart has earned that honor many times over.

Well, please cheer up, keep in mind that all humans/candidates
are flawed, and keep fighting the good fight.

THIS IS ABOUT SAVING AMERICA!!!

Oh, you already said that. :)

[MercutioATC]

11. I hear you, and I'm disappointed as well. However, if I believe that

Dean is the best choice for our nominee, part of the reason I believe this is because I think he's able to learn from his mistakes.

Personally, I think his "mistakes" in Iowa had more to do with a lack of positive ads compared to the number of ads aired by Kerry than any flaw in his message. Trippi is not an "amateur" as I've heard him called here. He's worked several major campaigns and I think he's professional enough to see the solutions.

I support Dean because I believe in what he says. I also happen to think that the run-of-the-mill campaign stands less of a chance of beating Bush than a campaign that supports somebody that's not afraid to say what he thinks. Honestly, if you think another candidate has a better message, you should support him. I'm choosing to take my lumps when I have to and do everything I can to see Dean elected because I truly believe in what he says.

Either way, I'm happy you're involved in the process.

[annagull]

24. I know, Melody--disappointed is an understatement

He fed into the right wing machine, and all of us working for him have been let down. That speech, fodder for all the talking head losers, is going to define him now. Trippi, his advisors, should have talked to him before that speech. I hate it when I am smarter than the big cheeses in Washington: Dean should have started out low while the big networks were on him, then ended strong. We have got to have more media savvay people on our teams if we will ever win the WH.

[TheStateChief]

8. Have To Say I Agree...

with those who are suggesting you "toughen up" a bit. The Iowa caucuses have shifted the spotlight onto Kerry but, as Dean supporters discovered last week, that isn't necessarily a good thing. Now, I don't doubt that the establishment media will be waxing poetic about what a great guy Kerry is, and he may even win New Hampshire, but look at the polls behind next week. Kerry and Edwards aren't even blips on the map in most states while Dean has a solid base of 20-25% from which to build on. He needs to introduce people to his agenda through his portfolio, IMO, in much the same way Kerry and Edwards did in Iowa. He CAN do it and the fact that most in the media are writing him off actually lowers expectations.

Remember, the system this year is NOT winner take all for delegates. Dean can win this thing if he gets people to understand that he is more than just an anti-war candidate. It's not like he has to make up his resume - it is actually very positive with executive experience, balanced budgets, health care for children, etc., etc. I suspect the debate on Thursday will be very telling: Can Dean reclaim the leadership role and how does Kerry handle the spotlight now that it's on HIM.

[Loren645]

4. Melodybe, isn't it way too soon to give up on Gov Dean?

I think the majority of nominees *don't* win Iowa.

If you do eventually look to affix a name to ABB, please
keep in mind that every candidate is human, fallible, imperfect.

[isbister]

7. fire up the young and a spotty record

Didn't Kerry win the youth and the new voters in Iowa, must have fired up someone, huh?

A spotty record, what does that mean and what's spotty??

[FrenchieCat]

9. Clark never supported the war.....

He has however analysed the war, the battle plan, etc....

You're confusing the two....

It's like life, it ain't all black and white....but you should show me when he supported the war.....I can only recommend that you watch these very closely......he has been steadfast consistent....but, hey, don't take it from me.

I do resent when one is just called a liar...just like that....It's not that easy for me....unless I document it.
Clark's Actual Testimony before Congress - 9/26/02:
http://tinyurl.com/m6os

Clark's Actual Testimony before the Senate 9/23/02:
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm#WC

http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm

A shorter video of some of Clark’s statements during the Senate Testimony

http://www.videos4clark.com/vidclips/07.wmv


Columbia Journalism Review - Distortion - Drudge: The Ellipse as a Tool of Deception

http://www.campaigndesk.org/

GOP chair claims Clark supported war; transcripts show otherwise
By Dana Hull and Drew Brown
Knight Ridder Newspapers http://tinyurl.com/2weh7

Clark's Iraq stance consistent: advisor Rubin

http://tinyurl.com/2a9e5

Clark says GOP distorts his testimony on Iraq

(Original headline read "GOP distorts Clark testimony on Iraq...but was changed)
By Raja Mishra and Joanna Weiss, Boston Globe

http://tinyurl.com/2kcj3

"The yellow light is flashing"
Matt Drudge says Wesley Clark's statements to Congress in September 2002 made the case for war in Iraq, but the transcript proves otherwise.

Editor's note: The following is an excerpt from Wesley Clark's testimony before the House Committee on Armed Services on Sept. 26, 2002. The full transcript is available here.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/01/15/clark/index_np.html

CLARK AND CONSISTENCY - Exclusive Falsehoods

http://www.markarkleiman.com/archives/wesley_clark_/2004/01/exclusive_falsehood.php

The Moderate Independent's report rebutting the issue: http://tinyurl.com/2un5c

Joshua Marshall’ puts the testimony out there and has comments:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_01_11.html#002415

[maxr4clark]

17. Maybe some quotes will make it clear

These quotes are from the hearing transcript, not the prepared written statement; Clark is the speaker of all these words. You can find a link to the hearing transcript (PDF file) here.

---START---
There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat.
---snip---
But the problem of Iraq is only one element of the broader security
challenges facing our country. We have an unfinished worldwide war against Al Qaida, a war that has to be won in conjunction with friends and allies and that ultimately will be won as much by persuasion as by the use of force. We've got to turn off the Al Qaida recruiting machine. Now some 3,000 deaths on September 11th testify to the real danger from Al Qaida, and I think everyone acknowledges that Al Qaida has not yet been defeated.

As far as I know, I haven't seen any substantial evidence linking Saddam's regime to the Al Qaida network, though such evidence may emerge. But nevertheless, winning the war against Al Qaida and taking actions against the weapons programs in Iraq, that's two different problems that may require two different sets of solutions. In other words, to put it back into military parlance, Iraq they're an operational level problem. We've got other operational level problems in the Middle East, like the ongoing conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Al Qaida and the foundation of radical extremist fundamentalist Islam, that's the strategic problem.

We've got to make sure that in addressing the operational problem we're effective in going after the larger strategic problem. And so, the critical issue facing the United States right now is how to force action against Saddam Hussein and his weapons programs without detracting from our focus on Al Qaida or our efforts to deal with other immediate mid and long-term security problems.

I'd like to offer the following observations by way of how we could proceed. First of all, I do believe that the United States diplomacy in the United Nations will be strengthened if the Congress can adopt a resolution expressing U.S. determination to act if the United Nations can not act. The use of force must remain a U.S. option under active consideration.

Such congressional resolution need not, at this point, authorize the use of force. The more focused the resolution on Iraq, the more focused it is on the problems of weapons of mass destruction. The greater its utility in the United Nations, the more nearly unanimous the resolution, the greater its utility is, the greater its impact is on the diplomatic efforts under way.
---END---

So there you have it. As Clark has repeatedly said, he supported a resolution to use as leverage when taking the issue to the United Nations, but not a resolution that authorized use of force. Smart people like Clark think complex thoughts, and when called as an expert witness, he speaks in complex sentences. Go figure.

What mystifies me is, why didn't Clark just say tonight "Yes I said Hussein was a threat; no, I didn't support the resolution giving Bush the power to go to war. You're talking about apples and oranges, Tom"? Is our average TV watcher too dim-witted to understand that?

[EXE619K]

12. So, you're pinned-down in your foxhole.....

The bullets and the mortar rounds shower from every direction.

What will you do?

With all due respect, this is the same type of "defeatism" that propelled our party into implosion. Just look at our so-called "rebuttle" to the SOTU BS tonight.

I'd like to think that DFA is more than just "electability". Is that why you support the good Governor?

I'd also like to think that it was MUCH more than that.

When the campaign first started, no one gave us a chance.

Just great....go to Edwards.

enuff said.

[anti-bush]

13. Edwards opted out of primary spending limits, not General Election limits

Please read my post regarding this. Edwards will not be subjected to spending limits against George Bush.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=153466

[Melodybe]

14. Well thank god!

[countmyvote4real]

15. Are you for real?

Your post suggests such a pathetic landscape of viable alternatives to * that I really find it hard to believe your real dog is in this contest.

If I'm wrong, then trust me on this: vote for any Democrat instead of *.

[Melodybe]

16. Look this is about finding the best man to beat Bush

I don't care who it is, but the more viable options we have the better. Everyone here should be responsible for reading up on every candidate we have. We can not just look at the candidate we like most. Dean is great but he needs to shape up and get some young people around him, & Trippi needs to go. Edwards is good too, but he needs to own up to the fact that he was duped by the GOP, he is good when he is getting tough. Clark is really fun to watch but I now have trust issues. Kerry is a good man but he is kind of boring. These are our four faces and voices and now we have to figure out who is the best. Each has his own weaknesses and strengths and I recommend to everyone here we let go of our favorites just a little bit from here on out. We need to be ok with any of these guys and we need to be able to let go of our candidate if they are not helping anymore, we need to start thinking of ABB as our candidate and let the cards fall where they may.

[MercutioATC]

18. Just curious. Why does Trippi need to go?

Dean has the largest grassroots campaign and the most effective fundraising machine of all of the candidates. Trippi is a big part of that. Are you basing this solely on the Iowa results, or are there other issues you have with him?

[Cheswick2.0]

19. MM is a political moron

He has no judgement when it comes to candidates. He is a bandwagon jumper.
There is no reason to find another candidate right now unless you really want to. Dean is far from finished.

[Tinoire]

20. Why thank you Cheswick for just cutting to the heart of the matter!

Moore is an entertainer. Nothing more.

I never for the life of me understood why so many people liked that buffoon in the first place.

[Cheswick2.0]

23. I think he makes good movies

For people who like or need to be hit over the head with the obvious. I think his books are great for the same market. I just don't think he has any judgement when it comes to political candidates.
Good morning or good evening Tinoire!

[Tinoire]

21. You're being too nice.

Save your energy and your letter. MM is an opportunistic ass. Anyone who picks a candidate because the guy was "nice" to him has serious psychological problems. Ignore him Melodybe, roll up your sleeves and get back to work for Dean!

He'd probably confuse that for a fan letter.

[NV1962]

22. For the love of... your preferred deity!

Take a break. Spend two days of quality time with people you care about - with one condition: zero politics, zero campaign BS. Go fishing, walking, to a concert, library, museum, your parents/family/friends...

There are important things in life, and you're #1. Once you've taken care of that over the next two days or so, I'm sure that you'll come to see that Howard Dean is still around, that he hasn't collapsed, that he's still very much committed to running for the big prize.

He's been governor long enough: he's no roll-over, his campaign is far from over, and neither are the primaries.

When you come back, your belief will be stronger than ever and you'll see things with much greater clarity. And remember: what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Now stop reading this BS - give this circus a deserved kick in the butt, or I'll start proselytizing Clark!