Should Reid resign as minority leader.

[genius]

My personal choice to replace him is Barbara Boxer. The leader is supposed to lead the opposition to Bush. Instead he got thirty-two Democrats to betray the American people and vote for the person responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans.

[LisaM]

2. Although I wouldn't choose Boxer unless Pelosi goes

having our leaders be two women from the same state would not be a great idea (and I don't have anything in particular against Pelosi.) I would go with Harkin.

[genius]

3. Pelosi should go too. Barbara is more liberal.

[genius]

73. THIS IS HOW BUSH WON OHIO. THE POLL WAS COMBINED & RESULTS WERE SWITCHED

This is the poll that got moved. Moving it and switching results rigged it AND MADE THE LOSING VOTE THE WINNING VOTE. The result was similar to Bush's win on switched computers
These were the results with 104 people voting. FAIR is FAIR and, if someone is going to kill a poll and combine it, they better transfer the results. NOTE TO MODERATORS: CHECK THE RESULTS OF THE ORIGINAL POLLS WITH THIS TITLE.


Topic subject Should Boxer replace Reid as minority leader?
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1535140#1535140
1535140, Should Boxer replace Reid as minority leader?
Posted by genius on Thu Jan-01-70 12:00 AM

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.
Poll question: Should Boxer replace Reid as minority leader?

Poll result (104 votes)
Yes (70 votes, 67%) Vote
No (34 votes, 33%) Vote

[Teaser]

4. Yawn.

Yawn.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. Could someone 'splain how the Dems were to have stopped confirmation?

They didn't have the votes, so why should they waste the time they need to organize against Gonzales?

[genius]

6. They could have filibustered both. No concessions to Bush killers.

[Pepperbelly]

19. You cannot fillibuster everything.

Holy shit, that has profound consequences at the ballot box and if you do not believe that, then I suggest you review the history of the last 15 years or so.

The fillibuster should be used selectively and we have some things that are UBER important coming up. Supreme Court Justices with lifetime tenures and the power to make judgements without review. Give3 it a rest.

[BornaDem]

40. Can you even fillibuster cabinet appointments?

[Pepperbelly]

48. under the rules, yes ... BUT ...

there is a finite number of times that the citizens will tolerate the use of the fillibuster. And it is the only thing we have right now. I think it should be saved for the Supreme Court and Social Security.

[shirlden]

8. Organize ????

What's to organize? The leader of the Bushbots would just have told every Repub Senator how to vote.
While I don't agree with that mindless and spineless approach to government, it is what the Dems need to do right now to be a true opposition party.

[Old and In the Way]

11. And to what gain, ultimately?

Defeat Condi and someone worse would get nominated.....like Doug Feith or Elliott Abrahms or ______? I certainly don't think Ms. Rice is either qualified, capable, or deserving of the position....but the fact is, her nomination signals that diplomacy is dead in this administration. Foreign relations has been outsourced to the Department of Defense. Unlke with Powell, that fact is now clear. She'll be window dressing for the Rich White Man's Oil and Gun Club that runs the show.

Gonzales, OTOH, is where the real battle lies.

[pelagius]

24. They're not trying to stop the nomination...

...they're trying to get the truth about 9/11 and Iraq in the public eye. They're not going to stop Gonzales, either, but should use that process to question this administration's record on civil liberties and other issues.

The Democrats are beginning to act like a real opposition. Rather than despair because they can't muster the votes, they're doing what they can to let BushCo know the free ride is over.

[AntiCoup2K4]

29. Stopping the confirmation isn't the point.

Taking a unified stand against a fucking lying incompetent warmonger is.

Jeffords (an ex Republican) voted correctly. Some of the more rational Republicans might have done the same if they knew the Dems were unified against that bitch.

[DaveinMD]

7. ludicrous

Reid has shown to be a good leader. He's doing a great job. The vote on this changes nothing. The witch hunt that takes place at this site every day is pure lunacy.

[medeak]

13. amen

eom

[bunkerbuster1]

80. Pure lunacy? a bit strong, but in the ball park.

Reid's barely been on the job a month, and yet some DUers want to shit-can the guy. ooookay.

FWIW, in a perfect world, the Dems would've made John Kerry the Senate minority leader. No, I don't believe he's necessarily the perfect team-leader deal-maker dude for the gig, but it would've sent a message to the American public that our party stands behind its loyal soldiers, and that you can't get rid of us that easily.

Plus, it would've pissed off the wingnuts to no end, but that's just a perk.

[Goldeneye]

9. I say we purge all the yea voters.

Seriously...it'll solve all our problems.

Do you guys really think Reid is a bad guy because he voted yea? Its to easy to look at one issue. Look at the big picture. He's a democrat; he slammed Condi just like the other democrats; He bitched at the republicans for whining about dems stalling the Condi nomination; he set up a war room. The fact that he is pro-life and is still a democrat makes it obvious to me that he can see the larger picture and is able to balance his personal feelings with what is right. I'm sure he did what he thought was right today. It is his belief that a president should be able to pick his advisors. I agree. No matter how terrible Rice is, or how any democrats voted, Condoleezza has been exposed (to anyone with a brain) as a liar. This was a major accomplishment. Can we stop tearing into the yea voters now?

[genius]

12. He voted for Bush for President on 1/6. This is just another strike.

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. So did every other Senator except Boxer

Looks like Boxer is the one that is out of step with the majority of Democrats.

[genius]

14. I think you have pro-life and pro-death confused. Pro-choice is pro-life.

Anti-abortion is pro death. Think of all the teenage girls who would die if he had his way.

[Goldeneye]

18. I think you're confused.

I know what abortion is. I know both sides of the argument. (I know pro-life is the republican frame of the thing, so maybe that's what you were getting at?) I happen to be a pro-choice teenage girl. Your post has little to do with Harry Reid's vote today.

[Thomas Jefferson]

21. I don't think anti-choice people like Reid can see the larger picture.

I call them close-minded and archaic. His vote today proves he does not care about his country.

[Goldeneye]

33. Do you really believe that?

Fine Harry Reid hates America...whatever.

[dsc]

42. That is such horse shit

32, count them 32, Democratic Senators voted for Rice. Pro choice Feinstien, pro choice Dodd, pro choice Biden, pro choice Collins, pro choice Clinton, pro choice Shumer, and I could literally go on a whole bunch more. BTW David Bonior, who opposed the war from the get go, pro life.

[The Gigmeister]

10. Oh Good God!

Is this "DEMOCRATIC"Underground.com?

These Reid bashing posts make me wonder...


REALITY ANYONE???

[KittyWampus]

15. Very Good Observation. Not Everyone Posting Here Has Democrats

best interests in mind.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

76. Lots of "head shaking" going on with me too...

...am I in the right place?

I understand that Reid doesn't embody all the attributes that some people would like to see in their ideal, cloned, uber-Democrat: but he's not the worst. I think that Reid has done a surprisingly good job so far, based on his personal record (although it's early).

When was the last time you saw saw the Democratic Party taking a stand like we have seen recently? I give Reid some credit for this: even if it's credit for not publicly trying to quash it. Sure, we're not seeing the 100% robotic, vacuous, "ditto-head" talking points that one sees out of almost all elected Republicans, but then who here wants that?

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Why would Senate Democats choose someone who disagrees with them?

They didn't vote the way they did because Harry Reid told them too. The job of the Senate Leader is not to be a dictator telling elected Senators how to vote. It is to do what the caucus want them to do.

[Dookus]

20. Some people need to grow up

[Padraig18]

38. Ain't it the truth?

*sigh*

[moggie12]

22. I like Reid a whole lot and this poll is kinda depressing

I see a vast improvement since Reid came into power. A lot of good things have come about as a result of Barbara Boxer's gutsy stand, but, still, I think Reid deserves an enormous amount of credit for toughening the Party's public stance and bringing a lot of political savvy to the table. He also gets us in the media in a favorable light, since he comes out with some colorful one-liners.

I particularly like the new 10-point agenda Reid and the Senate Dems came out with. However, when I posted the link here on DU -- asking people to sign if they hadn't seen it -- almost as many replied back saying they wouldn't as said they would!!! I find this utterly depressing.

Link to the post and all the comments:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1525891

Have you looked at the plan? Are you among the people who find fault with it? I agree with you in your admiration of Boxer -- I think she's great, too. It's just that this plan the Dems just came out with strikes me as just what we need to reach out to vast numbers of "middle Americans". I don't know exactly how it came about, but I imagine Reid had something to do with it.

[hiley]

27. There has been

improvement with Sen. Reid.

[accipiter]

23. No way - he's doing a superb job

He's well on his way to getting the best of the pubs on the SS issue. He's far superior to Daschle who had no understanding of how to craft and frame issues in order to win.

Reid could be the one to save SS. If he does that, he'll be a hero in my book. He's standing up and fighting back. And he does it effectively.

[Thomas Jefferson]

25. By your standards, so is Bill Frist. A lot of people here like Rice.

I wonder if that says anything about the party affiliation of those voting for Reid?

[accipiter]

26. Is Frist for or agains the SS privatization?

[Thomas Jefferson]

28. Frist agrees with Reid on most issues.

They could sing "Me and My Shadow."

[accipiter]

31. that's simply not correct

Thomas Jefferson would be disappointed with you.

[Constitution]

34. I've noticed that. Reid doesn't seem to have any Democratic values.

What is he doing leading our party into backing Bush?

[DaveinMD]

36. what are you talking about

he's been a great Democrat on most issues his entire career.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moggie12]

32. Huh??? Care to be coherent?

[DrGonzoLives]

39. That is completely uncalled for

Point out here who has said, ON THIS WEBSITE, that they "like Rice." I expect some names.

[LittleClarkie]

30. FUCK NO!!

Will you people stop living and dying one vote at a time!

I like that somewhat conservative little bulldog. Give em hell, Harry!

[flpoljunkie]

35. GETOUTTAHERE!

[JoseRizal]

41. These bashers need to run for Politics and see what they can

achieve eh? Come on people seriously, why don't some of very strong opinionated socialists here run for office or something. Try your formula of winning and if you guys succeed then we can have a new blue print for the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Quit bitching and start suggesting a formula for success. All I see and read here are freaking complaints,lynching,and complaints. Perhaps if some of you have a "real background" on winning and implementing your valued plans then maybe most of us like myself would be more open to your complaints.

Yes we need to discuss issues here in order to create a fruitful solution not to destroy our own. Thanks

[theboss]

43. Oh my Christ....

You are right; he had his two weeks in the sun. It's time to give someone else a shot.

This is what Steve Spurrier did with his quarterbacks with the Redskins.

[Albert Einstein]

44. Good strategy to bring out the freepers.

I doubt you'll find many Democrats who love anti-choice leaders where real names are used.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Good One Einstein...

Most of the people here defending Reid are contributing members to DU...


I'm not anti or pro Reid but he seems like a decent fella with a concern for the little guy...


That's enough for me...


Oh, and accusing folks of being a freeper is a violation of DU rules....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. I Think We Need To Start A Liberal Idiot Of The Week Thread

eom

[Lexingtonian]

47. Wow, the Righteousness Police is out in force today

Dude, the filibuster is a privilege that no one needs put to trivial uses.

Look, Team Bush is going to get some lever-pulling primates who do as they're told to fill all the jobs that don't matter. Whether they're called Bolton or Libby or Rice or Feith or O'Neill or whatever. There are only two and a half people who make all the larger decisions- Cheney, Rummie, and Dubya. (Dubya's phone calls to Falwell and Bush Senior account for the other half vote.) The rest are only the hired help, whatever their supposed glorious titles and offices.

[genius]

49. Poll question: Should Boxer replace Reid as minority leader?

She has become the moral leader of the Senate - why not the minority leader, so she has the power to influence the others to do the right thing.

[DemOperative]

You left off my choice. "HELL FUCKING YES!!"

.........

[Liberty Belle]

I love Boxer, but Reid's been very strong so far.

He came out with a Democratic Agenda today, announced 10 bills together to promote our values. He has spoken out against the Republicans on numerous occasions in very strong language and even managed to get EVERY Democrat on the Judiciary Committee to vote against Gonzalez.

Although he's not pro-choice, he has promised a major fight to oppose any right-wing judges Bush tries to appoint, too. He knows which side his bread is buttered on, as my grandmother used to say.

All in alll, he is moving the party in the correct direction: unity against the right-wing agenda. I say give him a chance.

[KT2000]

So far I like Reid

It appears that he is running an organized solid effort at undermining the GOP. I have been impressed. If he were to be loud about HIS views HE would become an easy target. But the way he is doing it, the party is starting to stand for something through the particiaption of many senators - at least 12 on the Condi vote.

Boxer is great doing what she is doing.

[greenohio]

Why? Sooner or later she'll do something to piss us off

and then we'll have to do it again.

[the ether]

No, then she'd have to be more respectable, less feisty

I think Reid has been doing a good job so far and as for the Dems as a whole, i'm actully willing to give them a little more rope to win back my respect.

I also don't think that all of the dems, all of the time should be so totally in utter opposition. They have to pick the fights that really really matter and strategically use the heavy guns when needed.

I think the CSMonitor or some other paper was writing about the Dems stategy as a whole and it was saying something about the leadership being reasonable while other dems like Boxer are ready to "throw down" whatever they have and show some teeth.

The Dems need to be an opposition party, but still they are very aware not to totally burn all levels of communication with the majority. I think that's a good strategy.


so no, leave Reid alone as leader, unless he proves himself unworthy and let Boxer be Boxer.

[paineinthearse]

50. It's not Boxer's choice

The Dem caucus votes on the leadership. Boxer unilaterally cannot appoint herself.

[chillynurse]

YES !!!!!

[Albert Einstein]

We do have the power to convince them to do the right thing.

1, Let's send the Rice-supporters that letter from Patrick Henry calling on them not to run for re-eleciton.
http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/sen-rice.html

2. Let's tie their contributions to votes. No more contributions to Rice-supporters. Let's send them letters telling them their off our list and why. If they want, re-consideration, they can filibuster Gonzales and demand new leadership.

3. Let's not contribute to any organization that supports the kind of pathetic behavior we saw today. Unless an organization takes a stand that what the Senate Democrats did was wrong, we say no to contributions.

4. Let's get our clubs and committees to denounce the roll-over actions of Democrats who don't have the courage to even filibuster Condi.

[MoJoWorkin]

51. You needed another option--

Damn straight!!!!

[wheresthemind]

52. I am getting so sick of how reactionary DU is...

Did you SEE Reid's speech? He is a fine minority leader and does not deserve to loose his job. Hell he has only been in the job a few weeks!!

Besides Boxer works best as an attack dog that does not always have to speak directly for the party. I'd say so far our Democratic leadership is doing a good job.

[genius]

55. Excuse me. A fine leader would want a competent SoS

Oh! So you let 3000 die on 9/11. No big deal. I support the right of people to oppose you but I'll reward you by letting you destroy what's left of our country's integrity as SoS.

[Freddie Stubbs]

65. A fine leader whould have been able to convince her fellow Democrats

to oppose Rice. Seh doesn't sound like a very effective leader.

[Lefty48197]

66. Surprised to hear you criticizing a Democrat Freddie

shocked actually.

[Freddie Stubbs]

79. I'm simply defending the man that the Senate Democrats chose

to lead them.

[The Gigmeister]

57. Yes, Reid is a good man!!

Take a poll of "Democrats" and see where Reid and Boxer rank.

Reid would clean her clock.

[Albert Einstein]

Take a poll of Republicans and see which they prefer.

I've taken a poll. According to the poll I took of real Democrats in person, 89% wanted Reid replaced by Boxer immediately. I'm certain you'll have a hard time finding a Republican who likes Boxer and who doesn't LOVE Reid.

[xultar]

53. Dean @ DNC, Boxer Senate & some yet identified individual with balls in

da house. We'd be ROCKIN!!!

[MoJoWorkin]

54. Agreed!!!

[The Gigmeister]

56. Only if you want to give the pukes 60 seats in 2006.

Let's get real here...

Senator Boxer is popular in California and on DU, that's about it.

[genius]

58. She received the most votes of any Senator in the history of the US

[The Gigmeister]

59. IN CALIFORNIA!!!

The MOST liberal and MOST populus state in the freaking union!!

What a bogus statistic. LOL!!!

[Thomas Jefferson]

63. In the United States. She has received the most votes anywhere ever.

She's great.

[Freddie Stubbs]

69. In the largest state against a weak opponent

Kind of like the a high school football coach keeping the 1st string in to run up the score.

[Albert Einstein]

You don't get it. She got more votes than whoever you are supporting.

She's the most popular senator in history.

[Pepperbelly]

60. Do you think the position is a fucking popularity contest?

The only votes that matter are those within the Democratic caucus in the United States Senate. I got my BA in poli sci and frankly, with as much attention as was paid to the legislative process in the distant past, I still could not catalog all of the things that the Leader must do.

But none of them have anything to do with moral leadership. It has to do with knowledge of procedure, a sense of what is possible with the votes available, a knowledge of the arcane Senate rules. The Democratic Senators selected someone who they think stands the best chance of accomplishing what can be accomplished with the votes that we have. Frankly, I do not think that anyone here has a sufficient knowledge base to criticize the selection with anything approaching substance or judgement.

[LittleClarkie]

75. It's like watching a bunch of cats following somebody around

Who's turn it to feed the cats this week?

I know enough to know I don't know jack. I don't even pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes. What we see is the end result, but who knows how they get there unless someone in the know that we also trust tells us.

I have a B.A. in Mass Comm with a not quite minor in Poly Sci (emphasis without the actual official minor). But this is the first time in my entire 41 years I've ever really, really paid attention.

Personally, based on what I've seen so far, I like the bulldog we have in Reid. I don't agree with all his stances, but I'm not going to agree with all of anyone's stances. I've been heartened by what I've seen so far coming out of the Dems. No circular firing squad from me.

[saltpoint]

61. Love Boxer but would replace Reid with Reed.

Jack Reed is very underrated. I'd love to see him lead our party on the floor of the U.S. Senate.

[Albert Einstein]

70. I like Jack's name.

Reminds me of another great thinker.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

Am I the only one who got your reference?

Jack Reed was indeed a great thinker.

[Thomas Jefferson]

62. Absolutely,

She has the pulse of the American people.

[Constitution]

64. Yes n/t

[Albert Einstein]

67. Good poll Glad the freepers haven't taken over this one.

I noticed that the freepers who want us to keep backing Bush's policies took over one of the other polls in the du. Too bad we can't check out political backgrounds on people voting on the polls.

Go Barbara!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. If I Laughed Any Harder I'd Piss Myself...

Some low count non contributing poster arrogates to himself the ability to ferret out freepers at this site...


Somewhere the man whose title you assumed is spinning in his grave...

[rockymountaindem]

68. No.

Until Reid gives us a reason to replace him, I see no reason for anyone else. He was voted for by his fellow Democrats, and since he must lead *them* before he leads *us*, we should let them have the leader they want.

Actually I'd say he's doing a pretty good job.

[KissMeKate]

71. Reid is ok

but I dont think he is right to lead the democrats.

[zulchzulu]

72. Let Boxer continue where she is...Reid can suck up to the moderate base

We need all the support we can get. As much as I love those that voted against Condi, it was apparent that Condi was going to get the nod anyway.

Reid is not my favorite chess piece on the board, but he is still valuable for getting moderates.

[Geek_Girl]

74. This was the Planned Strategy of the Dems

I think it was Reid and Boxer and all the Dems who came up with the strategy to select a couple of safe democrats to oppose Rice and then let the moderates well be moderates. I think it was a planned strategy by all of them. Not the strategy I would have liked but at least they're working together as a team.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. What is it exactly that you want Reid to do?

Some democrats voted for Rice, some didn't. She got through the senate but not without being asked serious questions by people like Barbara Boxer. Rice was confirmed but she was held accountable for her actions. I mean what do you want the senate democrats to do? Do you want them to not allow Bush to have a cabinet so that he can't run the government? I agree with others here, I'm waiting to see how Reid handles the social security issue and whether he can effectively use it to make gains in the 2006 elections.

Oh yea BTW, I seem to recall a time on DU when Barbara Boxer wasn't exactly Saint Boxer. Something to do with when she was running for re-election and supported the death penalty for a cop killer.

[More Than A Feeling]

78. compared to Daschle, Reid seems to be much better so far!

I'll stick with Reid.