I have had a mental epiphany (or a brain fart) deciding on how you

[frankly_fedup2]

look at it but I am serious when I have a solution to take care of Social Security, the war, and immigration problems, as well as more jobs for Americans.

Bush states that the illegal immigrants from Mexico come here to work at jobs that Americans will not do. That is a mis-statement. It's not that we are afraid of hard work, it's we "lazy Americans" refuse to work for subhuman pay. Plus, these employers are paying a lot of these immigrants subhuman pay under the table with no benefits.

Okay, here is my epiphany (or brain fart) . . . whichever you prefer.

I say that anyone in this Country illegally that wants to become an American Citizen must spend 3 years in the military service of their choice (more soldiers to hopefully get control of things in Iraq). During their service, they will receive half the pay that our soldiers get (which is not much); however, they need to look at the prize at the end. Also, as soon as they start receiving checks, the Social Security, FICA, Medicare will automatically be taken out of their checks.

1. There it is. Any illegals will have to enlist or be deported or jailed. (they have no choice; however, they can choose the branch of the military they prefer.
2. They will start paying taxes, Medicare, as well as into Social Security trust fund.
3. What they make will help to take care of their families here (just like our military does now).

The only thing that could be a problem is the ones that are over here with their families. Maybe their families could be housed on the military bases, and pay for their keep with what their husbands, sons, daughters make for serving this country. Yes, they would probably get food stamps and Medicaid (like a lot of women with children whose husbands are on active duty, which is unbelievable).

Then there will be more jobs open for Americans out of work; HOWEVER, and it's a big HOWEVER, the people that are use to paying the immigrants $1.00 a day or per hour (I have no idea but it's probably something like that)would then have to pay a legal wage, which would be minimum wage, but if someone has run out of unemployment benefits, and have no money coming in, you will pretty much do anything as long as it's an honest days work, Right?

I know it sounds very simple, but is it possible?????

[eaprez]

1. thats just about as immoral as sending poor kids off to war with ...

...the promise of a college education at the other end. Why ANYONE should have to risk their life to realize a better standard of living for their family is beyond my comprehension. How about a LIVING WAGE? How about helping to uplift countries around the world rather than bombing and controlling them so they can realize the same dreams we take for granted? How about rolling back the tax cuts we can't afford and having those who make more than $85k per year pay into social security. I'd rather have those options than have anyone risking their life just to get a better shot at success -and to advocate this idea for an illegitimate war is even more mind boggling!

[frankly_fedup2]

3. Hey, I cannot argue with you, but how about facing reality . . .

those things are never going to happen. I really didn't think of it as sending "slaves." After all, our government has been doing this to young, poor, lower middle class American young men and women for years. Of course, they could not be illiterate. Just like our soldiers are literate and able to train for active duty. You make it sound like I'm suggesting something worse than what our Government has done for the past 30 years. Also, this could prevent the draft, as we all know that's going to come back.

However, what you said was right, but it is not the reality we have today. Also, that is why we have the military we have now, because of a promise of an education, world travel, and serving their country. Now the government is really advertising for reservists more so than anymore military. The reason is they get less pay. They get no hazard pay. They are promising a $15,000 sign on bonus (I think I heard that is paid monthly until their service is over), plus there is no limit as to how long the Reserves have to stay. so it really favors the government ten times more than the individuals. So our government has been using poor to lower-middle class kids like this for years. It just so happens right now we are in a terrible, illegal war. Our kids are being murdered for the lies of a President.

My suggestion of sending more people is in no way whatsoever "advocating" this war. Bush and his criminal administration should be brought up on war crimes, but that is never going to happen either.

The above is what is being offered to our own as well as the education promise. So why is offering citizenship as well as training any different? Are the immigrants better than us and deserve more for nothing? The way Bush is going, he is going to reward them for breaking the law of coming into this country illegally.

I'm not saying send them over there to definitely die. Give them the same training our soldiers get. Also, by doing that I'm not advocating the war. I was trying to think of it as a way of getting everyone home . . .and getting everyone home soon. Serving 3 years in the service is not stating that they stay in the middle east for 3 years straight. Although, they are doing that to Americans now. They can serve America just like our soldiers are (which is not always during war time).

Also, what do you call them now working illegally and getting little pay for hard work? Although slaves did not get paid, what they get paid is pretty close to not getting paid. They get no respect for what they do and are giving measly wages to support a family. They are living on the run all of the time and cannot settle down with their families. At least this way they can legally become citizens. If they do not want to, that's fine, they will be sent home.

Just an idea. At least give me some credit for trying to think of a solution. I know it is obviously too simple; however, I in no way was "advocating" this war nor was I, basically, trying to take advantage of the poor. Believe it or not . . . I do have a heart.

I do appreciate your honesty. You did make me look at it in a different way.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frankly_fedup2]

4. No, I am not a Republican. This must be why the Senator . . .

from New York, Charlie Rangle, is wanting to bring back the draft. He is a Democrat as I'm sure you know. However, he states it's the poor, lower middle class kids who are the ones that have joined the military. He said that mostly ethnic, urban kids are the ones who see the military promise for an education their only way up in this World.

Now I agree, when I stop and really think about it, our own kids are being offered a better life through their service to this Country. No rich kids have to worry about these things. With the draft, then some of the rich will have to join the military as well. Rangle said that there would be no deferments for anything (how he would get around medical problems, I don't know).

I'm not racist and I really did not mean for my suggestions to come out that way. I apologize if I have offended anyone . . . really.

However, I am no stupid Rapture-right-wing Republican idiot. I must be a Democratic one per your responses. Oh well.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

5. Arbeit Macht Frei?

You repulse me.

[frankly_fedup2]

7. Geez, don't hold back, really let me have it wrinkle_in_time . . .

I'm so evil I guess I should be dead, huh? I'm surprised you didn't use the little emoticon that has green puke coming out of its mouth every few seconds. Really make your point.

I admit now that it was a stupid idea. Others have pointed some of my statements out to me and I can see their point. I also see how our government has been taking advantage of our poor, urban youth as well. However, to say so bluntly that from this one post that I "repulse" you?

That's a little over the top, don't you think?

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. No kidding...

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=121

[frankly_fedup2]

10. Geez, I didn't know from that one post I was going to be so . . .

chastised and, basically, called pure evil incarnate because I spoke before I really thought it out.

I will get what I deserve (or to each his own) as is so eloquently followed by, "You Repulse Me," from the guy from Canada of whom is a human contradiction because he obviously revels in his santorum.

Since I am so evil and repulsive I must be destroyed like those before me. That shall be taken care of by 12 noon tomorrow.

No RSVP's necessary from those who want to see me face my doom as no one is invited.

(Ppppphhhiiiittttttttttttttt ...another brain fart)

Well exxcuuuuuuuuuusssssee me!

[tkmorris]

6. Well, besides being morally offensive (and it is)

I say morally offensive for the obvious reasons. You are correct in that military service has been taking advantage of those in our lowest economic classes for quite some time now, while the "rich kids" disdain military service in a volunteer force and get deferments or cushy billets with the TANG for example when there is a draft. It is immoral and undemocratic for our servicemembers who put their lives on the line to be so over-represented by our most downtrodden, and that of course is the point Charlie Rangel is trying to make.

His draft bill would ensure that all members needed in the service would be chosen from a cross section of American society instead of the way it is now, and severely limit the ability of the rich kids to avoid it.

Your idea however not only doesn't fix this problem, in fact it takes it one more distasteful step forward, putting the burden for our country's defense not on our own nation's neediest group but rather on foreigners who are even worse off than that and not yet citizen's to boot. Sorry, I find the idea reprehensible. You labeled it a possible brain fart though, so let's just put it down as that. We all have em.

Another issue though is that your idea presumes all illegal immigrants to be able bodied males between the ages of 18 and 34, or at least the head of the family to be so. Would we not then be discriminatiing against potential immigrants who do not fall into this category? What would they do? Just receive a flat "no"?

Nope. Bad idea mate. Let's forget this one, ok?

[frankly_fedup2]

8. PPPPPHIIIIiiiiiiiittttttttttttttttt . . . (another brain fart).

Thanks for being civil and agreeing to disagree. I can see some points I hadn't thought of before. It kind of scares me now when I stop and read it.

Just remember, I'm still on your side OMG - I bet you wish I weren't now.

:cry:

[Dookus]

11. I was about to post my views on this..

but I see others already have. I'll accept that it was just a poorly thought-out idea.