Kent Conrad (D, ND) says privatization worth a look...

[Teaser]

link

Conrad said Wednesday that he has already being heavily lobbied: Treasury Secretary John Snow phoned to talk Social Security; the director of the Office of Management and Budget, Josh Bolten, came to visit; and breakfast is scheduled next week with Senate Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa.

"If this is just one of those things where the president says, It's my way or the highway ... I can't be for that," Conrad said. But he added: "I think there is a kernel of a good idea in creating accounts that individuals can control."

Hit this guy where it hurts. Now *this* is a phony Democrat.

Senator Kent Conrad
530 Hart Senate Office Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510-3403

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Online: http://conrad.senate.gov
E-mail: http://conrad.senate.gov/webform.html (call, don't email).

[skypilot]

1. "...accounts that individuals can control."

Yeah, uh huh.:eyes:

[no name no slogan]

14. Umm, we already HAVE those.

They're called IRAs, in all their various shapes and sizes, Kent (D-ND).

Roth IRAs, Educational IRAs, regular, plain-vanilla IRAs. We even have 401(k)s, 503(c)s, Keoghs, and a host of other alphabet-soup plans that let Americans stash their cash in any number of investments.

And still, Americans are ranked dead last in the industrialized world in their savings rate.

"Privatization" will only benefit Wall Street, who can't wait to get their greedy paws on the trillions of $$ Washington will 'release' when these private accounts go live. You thought the 2000 bust was bad? Just wait...

[skypilot]

18. Privatization will only benefit Wall Street....

That's actually what I was getting at with my post. I was too vague. If privatization were to happen I don't believe for one second that the average American would be in "control" of those accounts.

[w4rma]

2. He grabbed the third rail. Fry him too. No distinction on this issue. (nt)

[Walt Starr]

3. We need North Dakotans to hit him where it hurts!

FAST!

[nickshepDEM]

4. Well its going to happen unless Democrats come up with an alternative...

Republicans say, "Privitization is good and will fix the SS "problem"
Democrats say, "There is no problem"

We better come up with a solution to counter theres or we will be in trouble.

[Teaser]

5. Disagree.

The "there is no crisis" meme is important and appears to be working. We need to advance an agenda on SS, and we will, but Denying the Crisis is an important part of our strategy.

[sunnystarr]

12. Bush and the Pukes have already dropped "crisis"

and have replaced it with "problem."

[w4rma]

6. Sen. Kerry *ran* on a solution. So did Vice President Al Gore.

Sen. Kerry proposed eliminating/raising the payroll tax *cap*. Vice President Al Gore proposed a Social Security "lockbox". Neither solution required spending 2 trillion dollars for more bureaucracy, either. Unlike the Republican plan.

Also, note that there is not "crisis". This "crisis" is dated 2042. Nearly 40 years from now.

[nickshepDEM]

13. I have read about the "Lock Box" and...

It seems like a "no brainer" piece of legislation that would/should be passed. So what gives?

[w4rma]

16. Repugs are using our payroll taxes to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy(nt)

[Teaser]

17. What Gives is

A Republican President and Republican majorities in Congress.

[realFedUp]

7. Fainthearted Faction list at www.talkingpointsmemo.com

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

[Dr.Phool]

8. It's INSURACE, not investments.

There's a little thingy that they can put into the stockmarket, with pre-tax dollars. It's called a 401k, or an IRA. But due to the wonders of the market, a lot of 401k's have been turned into 201k's over the last 4 years.

[Coastie for Truth]

22. That is exactly why

we have to keep a basic, Social Security "core benefit" (along with Survivor's and Disability --- do you how many people do not have disability insurance of any kind? Too Many).

That is exactly why Bush's "carve out" privatization - funded by even more borrowing and a Baby Tax - is a cruel hoax.

[tanyev]

9. And WHY exactly

do the opinions of John Snow, Josh Bolten, and Charles Grassley mean more than the opinions of his constituents, the citizens who sent him there to represent THEM?????

[Coastie for Truth]

10. What is wrong with

1. "Add ON" privatization as opposed to Bush's "carve out" privatization.

2. With a refundable tax credit from General Funds of the US (not the Social Security Trust Fund) to low income taxpayers who do not get much tax benefit from an IRA or 401(k). This would equalize the tax benefit that high income taxpayers get from 401(k)'s and IRA's.

"Privatization" through an "Add On" personal account - with a refundable tax credit (from the General Treasury - NOT the Social Security Trust Fund) is good old FDR New Deal Privatization.

A Bush "carve out" - with funds from the Social Security Trust Fund paid for by a "Baby Tax" on our grand kids (the Bush proposal) is Bush Neo-Con Bushworld, Bushtalk "Piratization" and will create Social INSecurity.

Distinguish between the two -- don't fall for Bushworld Bushtalk from Rush - or Armstrong - or Anne Coulter.

"Privatization" per se is neutral. It is the "carve out" and the "baby tax" inherent in "Piratization" and "Social INSecurity" that are evil

Kent Conrad is on our side.

[Coastie for Truth]

11. Where did I get this interpretation

from Kent Conrad's frequent appearances on Ed Schultz and Al Franken. (And from Paul Krugman's articles and appearances on Al Franken)

When it comes to Ed Schultz - I'm just a red meat eatin', gun tottin', Harley ridin' (in my youth) leftie from the steel valleys of the Rust Belt

[no name no slogan]

15. Uh, we already HAVE that

You don't need to create a new bureaucracy to create these "accounts". We already have laws on the books that let people invest in tax-deferred accounts with pre-tax dollars if they so choose. IRAs, 401(k)s, 503(b)s, etc. ALL provide for this.

If you truly want to encourage investment by low-income people into investment accounts, all you have to do is lower their tax burden and provide incentives via the tax system. You do NOT need yet another layer of bureaucracy to encourage them.

[Coastie for Truth]

19. Please explain

how making low income taxpayers' IRA or 401(k) contributions subject to a refundable tax credit instead of a tax deduction - creates "yet another layer of bureaucracy to encourage them" -- The refundable tax credit actually creates " incentives via the tax system" by "lowering their tax burden" ---- remember -- we are talking about low income taxpayers in the lower brackets who do not get much bang for the buck from an IRA or 401(k) contribution.

I would like to follow your argument --- because I want to attack this move to convert Social Security into Social INsecurity through a Bush Piratization and Baby Tax --- but I do not see the equivalence of an "Add On" IRA with a tax credit funded through general revenues) to a "Carve Out" (funded through benefit cuts, borrowing, and a "Baby Tax")

Remember - low income taxpayers do not really contribute to IRA's or 401(k)'s because they do not get much bang for the buck from an IRA or 401(k) contribution - the Refundable Tax Credit{/b] gives them that "Bang for the Buck" that a mere tax deduction (in the lower bracket) fails to deliver.

[Telly Savalas]

20. I agree that privatization is worth a look.

So I'll click on this link to investigate. Know what? Looks like a stupid fucking idea. Done looking.

However, Conrad didn't say he would categorically support Bush's plan to destroy SS, he just said privatization was worth a look. So since he's sitting on the fence on the issue, a little tact and courtesy might go a long ways towards getting him to come down on our side. This is a fight we can win if we're united and can put pressure on a few Republicans to break ranks. So rather than thumping our chest at the guy, let's try to make him see reason.

Also, those of you who get your jollies by turning our party into a circular firing squad, please remember that Conrad was one of the few Senators who voted against the Iraq War Resolution. If we had more Senators like Conrad, our troops wouldn't be dying in Iraq today.

[Coastie for Truth]

21. Some Dems are using "Privatization"

to mean an "Add On" IRA-401(k) with a refundable tax credit (remember - we are talking about taxpayers where the deductibility of an IRA-401(k) is not much of an incentive).

This would be in addition to and NOT in place of Social Security.

Less then 15% of low bracket taxpayers actually have IRA's or 401(k)'s -- one thing both Democrats and Republicans can agree on -- in this age of fewer ERISA plans (especially defined benefit plans) - and more defined benefit plan failures --- we have to get that percentage up - significantly - from a mere 15%. (I got the 15% number from some HR manager's magazine)