How many of you have "lost" friends or family because of political

[blonndee]

differences?

I'm wondering if * and RWerism (I know, that's not a word)has been the cause of family and friend splits for anyone else? I dumped one "friend" after we had an argument about gay marriage and she got all preachy and judgmental on me after I told her I DON'T think gay people are going to hell, and neither is anyone else. She then essentially told me that I'M going to hell for thinking that being gay is okay.

Family: Christmas 2003 got really ugly when I dared to question the morality of present-day American capitalism and outsourcing. I literally had six screaming redneck RWers cornering me in the kitchen, screeching at me about how lucky I am to live in the United States, otherwise I wouldn't even HAVE the right to be in school and saying what I was saying.

I told my parents right then and there that I would never darken that door again, and I haven't. So I'm basically estranged from my dad's side of the family. The sad thing is, they don't even know it. I just refuse to even deal with them anymore. Maybe they'll get it after a few more years of "not making it home for Christmas."

Anyone else dealing with this?

[XanaDUer]

1. Me.

Family, not friends.

[Bemis]

2. Hasn't got that bad,

But after an incident between myself and younger brother a few years ago my whole family has cut back on too much talk about politics.

Used to be a complete Republican family. Now grown up, one brother
and myself have gone liberal while the other brother and father
are Rush die hards.

[stevedeshazer]

3. Lost my brother

My best life-long friend. Happened during the Clinton years.

[blonndee]

5. Sorry, that must be tough. n/t

[Oreo]

4. Sister turned into a fundie

Pretty sad... she and her family had potential. I put fundies and extremist RWs in the same boat though.

As for anybody that calls themselves a Christian that tells you you're going to hell is defying the Bible. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself (you hypocrital self righteous bastard!)

[bliss_eternal]

6. I'm trying not to see it as a loss as much as regaining

my sense of sanity. I'd rather release those I'm incompatible with than beat myself up (or let them abuse me) by trying to coexist with them.

I'm sincerely sorry to hear you are going through a tough time. As you spend more time here you will see that some other's here have been where you are right now. It would be great if this was a perfect world and everyone could be respectful of everyone's views w/out passing judgement. Sadly, some people just don't know any better and feel it is their role in life to tell you the kind of things you heard.

It's never easy to lose people that you care about. I hope in time you will have others in your life that share your views and beliefs and can be supportive of you.

Welcome to DU. blonndee! :hi:

[WildClarySage]

10. "It would be great if this was a perfect world and everyone

could be respectful of everyone's views w/out passing judgement."

If they did, they would all be Dems.

[blonndee]

12. Thank you!

It has been hard, but thankfully I started grad school shortly before the Christmas fiasco, and so the majority of my new friends are liberal, but I'm probably the most interested in politics and activism.

I'm glad I found DU!

[kuozzman]

7. If I expressed my true feelings about the chimp, I'd have lost many.

Many of my friends are Republicans, though few talk about politics very much. And I'm sure if I sat down with some of them for an hour and told them things other than what they hear/see from the corporate media, they'd reevaluate their political beliefs. I guess politics just isn't something that comes up very often, which is may or may not be good. These days, politics can seriously change the way you feel about somebody. But then again, I think a lot of people are in the dark about a lot of stuff that I've learned about, like anything from how unbelievable it is that someone like Gonzales is going to be AG to the Neo-Cons running the Chimp Administration and the fact that most of them were in the PNAC in 1997 and even then, really wanted to invade Iraq, among other things.

[moobu2]

8. sevral, I just cant talk to anymore..

Starting right before the Iraq invasion.

[Zookeeper]

9. I've avoided some friends, "dropped" a couple of others...

as I'm throughly dismayed by their poor judgement, lack of reason, fear-obsessed decision-making, callousness, tolerance of lies and fraud, and dedication to staying as uninformed as possible. It's also personal for me, as I have a child with a chronic illness that could very likely be cured through stem cell research, which *Bush has obstructed in order to pander to the Christian Taliban. Anyone who knows what my child has to deal with and can still vote for Smirk, is no friend of my family or me.

I know several people who dislike (or even hate) Emperor Chimp, but voted for him anyway. None of them could give me a real reason for not voting for Kerry. I can only guess that they are all so terrified, that they felt safer sticking with "the devil they know."

[bliss_eternal]

14. (((Zookeeper))) I am sorry to hear of your child--I do hope

that we will find a way to bring stem cell research to those that need it so desperately.

I was heartbroken by the death of Christopher Reeves--he worked SO hard for this issue.

I've talked to people that voted for the Boy King and think they did so on based on 'isolated issues'. For example, his stance on terrorism, which I don't get. How can you vote for part of a candidate? I just don't think it's possible--we still have to deal with the entire doofus that is in the white house, not just some of him! :(

[Zookeeper]

17. Thank you, Bliss....

I was also saddened by Christopher Reeves death. His courage was very moving and inspiring.

As far as stem cell research, did you hear this week that the 20 stem cells lines made available by BushCo have been contaminated by mouse cells? Apparently, it will take two years to eliminate those cells, in order to make the human cells usable. OR, the scientists could start over with new cells, IF they were available. Either way, it just slows down the process.

I say to "pro-choice" people: If you don't like the idea of using stem cells from 3-day old embryos that are going to be thrown in the trash anyway, then don't take advantage of the cures that result! Fundies have no right to force others to suffer for their religious beliefs.

Good point on "isolated issues." Someone told me that, even though she didn't like the war, prisoner abuse, the deficit and so on, she was going to vote for Bush because she has been able to deduct her health insurance since he took office and she could never do that when a Democrat was in office. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

21. I hadn't heard about the contaminated stem cells--

thank you for the update. That's terrible that the cause has yet another delay. Why am I thinking that this isn't an accident on the part of Bush and company?

I agree about the pro-lifers. I don't get anyone that feels the necessity to force others to live by their belief system. I really don't want to be 'parented' by the gov't or the fundies.

The voter you spoke of--she sounds a tad selfish (jmho). But her vote rationale is a great deal like that of other women I have heard. They chose to look the other way on Shrub's stance on abortion and choice--despite being pro choice themselves. Why? Oh they live in a state where they would never lose that right--and besides they are married and don't NEED the services being threatened anymore. Hello?! What about the women that MAY lose these rights?

Just selfish...

Nice talking with you :hi:

[bobbieinok]

39. that about health insurance doesn't make sense

[Carni]

11. Yep--most of my spouse's siblings

I was writing and researching for a fairly large progressive website in 2002 and 2003 and they basically disowned my husband because of it.

[wicket]

13. Lost a good friend

We haven't spoken since Jan. 2002.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Actually kinda made a friend by calling him a fascist

Long story, but we've learned to have open friendly political discourse.

[UTUSN]

16. A Wingnut Vietnam Vet

After a couple of years of putting up with his wingnut e-mails of "jokes" and cartoons, after the election his ignorant gloating was over the top and I told him to get lost. He had to have his last word, of course, saying, "You can't handle the truth," or somesuch that, predictably, contained some misspellings.

And my sister belongs to a Catholic subgroup. Her co-members are fanatics to the point of parroting that those who vote for Choice candidates are committing a sin and going to Hades. My sister has gotten into it at times, at other times when they're all traveling as a group having to hold her tongue.

[saltpoint]

18. My best friend from high school days discovered James Dobson's--

--Focus on the Family and not long afterward I just gave up the fight,

Hated to lose something of such long standing, but Dobson was the trump card.

[leftofthedial]

19. I've ended relationships with several RWer

ex-friends.

Can't abide fascists or fascist enablers.

[ailsagirl]

20. I've been lucky-- my friends are all liberal

but I know some have family and relatives who are repugs. It's hard on them. I don't know what I'd do because those crazy neocons turn my stomach so, I honestly would not be comfortable anywhere near one. I just think, "How can you be so clueless??"

There are those at work with whom I've developed a rather formal relationship, whereas in the past it wasn't that way. I can't help it-- there's that tension whenever I'm around them.

[TexasLawyer]

22. None lost

AND I've made some new friends.

[McCamy Taylor]

23. I have quietly disowned the GOP branch of my family.

They are an embarassment. They watch Fox News. I havent actually told them I have disowned them. I just dont go visit anymore. They are a tiny minority in the family, so I dont miss them.

[bunny planet]

24. me

My sister-in-law in Nashville has had her brain harvested by Faux news broadcasts and Bible Belters. She used to be a liberal NY Jewish intellectual, now she is a neo-con and she's a fundamentalist (just a Jewish one). She thinks the only good Arab is a dead one, pretty frightening stuff, and she is highly intelligent and so is living proof that IQ is no protection when it comes to insidious propaganda. She thinks Bill Kristol is a gentleman and a scholar (too bad he also authored PNAC).

I just don't talk to her anymore about politics and religion. The conversations I've had with her already about those subjects have devolved into shouting matches and name-calling. Life's too short. It's sad though, because we were sort of close before that, had a lot of common interests. I just can't feel the same way about her anymore knowing she's become a rascist and a hawk.

But hey, he's a uniter, not divider right!

[Dark]

25. No. Life is too short to split because of political differences.

My family and I just avoid talking about politics. I and my brother are liberals, and the rest of the family is conservative.

For my friends, some of us just disagree. We leave it at that. We'll occasionally argue, but then bury the hatchet and talk about something else.

But I remember at one family party, it got UGLY. We we're screaming at each other. A lot.

After that, we've pretty much just shut up. . .

[Skittles]

26. I cannot have bush supporters around me

they make me sick

[Blue_In_AK]

27. My family is ALL democrats

Husband, kids, brothers, brothers' wives, my deceased parents -- who, in a way, I'm glad are not alive to see this mess. I guess I'm pretty lucky that way. I only have a few close friends, who are all democrats except for one couple, but they live in Tennessee, and when we see them, which is about once a year, we just stay away from politics, by common consent.

[zann725]

28. Yep. And not just now, but my whole life. I've been cursed by being

surrounded by a lot of EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE family, friends and
co-workers my whole life. Seems to be my "cross" in life...to find a way to deal with it. Wears me out, quite frankly.

[No Exit]

29. I think I see what you're going through...

I don't speak on the phone as much to our good friends who are still in the poisonous thrall of Bushism.

However, I also saw some encouraging things. Example: my uncle from Illinois. I spoke to him briefly b/f the election. "What do you think about the election?" He replied, "It's simple: if you want war, vote Bush. If you don't want war, vote Kerry." Now, mind you, this is a man whom I would have classified as a serious conservative. And I might be right about that--but the encouraging part is, he was not letting himself be hoodwinked by the party labels, he was instead looking at the issues. He had more to say on the election, but the point is, he was NOT in favor of Bush.

A friend, wife of a plastic surgeon (can you believe it.. these people were from Boston) gently teased me about my son's Kerry sticker. At the time, I was talking about something else, and so I didn't attempt to enlighten her. Later, it kind of rankled me. But then I decided that I pity her (in spite of their handsome income) because she is simply unenlightened, as yet. She is caught up in running her husband's office, and isn't a politics/news junkie as I am. BUT she, like me, does have a son who is draft-age. Next time the subject comes up, I'll simply say to her, "Yes, my son doesn't want to be forced into the military so Halliburton can make (cheat) billions."

My son, who only just voted for the first time, has more political sense than this highly-educated woman (who is a lawyer, but who doesn't use her law degree.)

They just don't see it yet. YOU will be the one who gets to say "I told you so!" I only hope that when we finally have that satisfaction, the disaster which allows us to say that will be one from which we can recover.

Oh--one more thing: the best way to argue with the types you described is to remind them that Bush has failed THEM, too. Remind them that Bush is "letting in all those Mexicans... do you wanna end up speaking Spanish, do you wanna end up in poverty while they take all the jobs???" (Your actual opinion, or my opinion, of the Mexican matter, is not important here. What's important is THEIR opinion of it, which will unquestionably be anti-immigration.) Watch how they get mad at Bush when you remind them that "he won't secure our borders!" It's fun!

Remind them that Bush's AG nominee is a member of La Raza (of course, you'll first have to explain to the ignoramuses what La Raza is... they WON'T like it!) You can have some fun with this!

[tenshi816]

30. Maybe not lost, they're just hiding from the truth

I've beeen lucky to an extent because I live in England and saying that I loathe George Bush and wingnuts to people over here is like pointing out that the earth isn't flat. It's a given. I've never met a soul here who does like him or his administration's policies.

My family back in Georgia is another matter. They live in a rural area and, while my father has an inquiring mind, my stepmother is a fundie who is worried that the world is going to end any second. Kind of odd that the idea frightens her, since so many of her fellow fundies are deliriously hoping for the rapture, but I think it's because she's afraid she won't make the cut, which makes her more and more right-wing - it's a really exhausing cycle. Because she hates Bill Clinton and believes that the sun shines out of the Shrub's ass, she finds my views hard to take so we don't discuss anything. What happens instead is when I make the 4000+ mile annual trip back there to visit, there's a real passive-aggressive thing going on with her. She treats me with exaggerated politeness on the surface, but also as if I'm a complete stranger - this from a woman I've known since I was small. She gets her little digs in and always has this shit-eating smirk on her face when she does - she's been taking lessons from her simian hero, I do believe. I try to ignore it because I love my father so much.

My dad would be open to discussion if he weren't so completely under my stepmother's thumb, because he does exactly what she tells him to do. I discovered last summer that they were both working on Shrub's re-selection campaign and it upset me so much that I cut short my visit.

Just a week ago I set up a website ostensibly for my friends and family to keep up with what's happening in my life, but the real reason is to put a lot of links on it to other sites (like DU) that might prompt my dad to do some reading. He's a historian and I know that he has the ability to see reason, if only someone points him in the right direction.

The rest of my family are lost causes. A cousin told me that they all know what's right and that I'm wrong and misinformed because (a) I'm the only one who votes Democrat in the family and (b) because "I don't think y'all get all the news over there in England." Hello? BBC? Internet?

No wonder that, when I still lived there, I hardly ever left Atlanta (a lovely blue oasis in red hell) unless it was to get on a plane and fly somewhere out of state. I can't stand the oppressiveness.

[Jackie97]

31. I haven't lost friends yet.

That's mostly because the majority of my conservative friends come from my home town and know me as this good fundamentalist Christian. They have no clue. As for where I'm at now, people know I'm liberal. The fundamentalist Christians stay away from me most of the time. They think I'll chew their head up and spit them out I guess.

However, they're acting like anybody who voted for Kerry is evil.

The whole thing makes me RESENTFUL as hell. That's why I'm considering coming out of the closet. I think I could deal with it. If my "friends" decided to not be friends with me anymore or to look down on me for my politics, then they could just to the hell that they preach about so much.

At the same time, I don't want to do it because my parents are thinking of going to my old church just to be going and for socialization. I don't want to ruin things for them or my sister.

The whole thing makes me really resentful as freakin hell.

[electropop]

32. Have had some pretty heavy flame wars

But I can still speak with my 2 RW brothers on other topics.

[American Tragedy]

33. No, I'm very lucky.

I don't really have partisan right-wing friends or family. There are a couple of fiscally conservative Goldwater Republicans on my father's side, and a few libertarians on my mother's side, but other than that we're all Democrats.

I do understand what you're going through. I dated a right-winger for a while, partly in order to prove to myself that I could be involved with somebody with diametrically opposed opinions. The novelty of the intellectual conflicts disintegrated, and in the end I couldn't get past his inherently selfish, authoritarian worldview.

I learned how deeply one's political and social positions can reflect his or her personality.

[txaslftist]

34. Lost my brother, too.

He's gone 'rapture-fundie', so I had to remove him from my estate documents as guardian of my children.

The only thing we still talk about is Playstation. Everything else is too sensitive to broach.

[seabeyond]

37. after to the last two years watching brother become more

fundamentalist, and he doesnt even go to church, lol so is the craziest thing, watching these people spout the limbaugh hannity crap knowing they arent religious at all, we pulled brother off as guardian too and gave that responsibility to my husbands brother. my husbands brother is gay too, lol.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

35. I lost my job.

For two and a half years I worked audio for a prominent African American singing group that both played a Dem fund-raiser AND sang at the White House Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

Their back-up band got fired in a work dispute and replaced with guys who had all been playing in the official Air Force Symphony Orchestra that does the official White House functions.

The road manager was retired AFSO, too.

So I worked with some African American men who voted Rebublican and believed too much of the propaganda they heard at work in the AFSO. Some professional Clinton-haters.

I refused to work with them when they played the NAACP's annual tribute to the US military sponsored by Lockheed Martin around the time of Abu Ghraib breaking as a story. Colin Powell was at the function. Imagine that. I could have met him.

Then the singers played at Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition annual week-long conference in Chicago. Jesse brought 6 African American generals up on stage for an hour or so of tribute despite his own literature decrying the Pentagon budget and the US coup in Haiti.

After the show, I asked Jesse Jackson if he and the NAACP could resist flag-waving and glorifying war during the tragic poverty draft. He didn't like my line of questioning and blew me off.

I quit the group then and there. It dawned on me that I had seen a signboard with the big list of corporate contributers to Jackson's organization. On the list was big defense contractors.

I realized that the NAACP and Jesse Jackson tread lightly on the Pentagon because it has become a jobs program for African Americans in the poverty draft.

That was a real eye-opener and I've been struggling to make ends meet ever since I quit that group to avoid being complicit with the war culture that is eating our young and destroying the world.

Hard choice but I sleep better for it.

[blonndee]

36. Gawd! I really didn't expect so many replies.

I'm sorry for each one of you who has dealt with this. It can be tough to choose between family/friends and standing up for one's ideals. (Not that those of you who have reached a compromise, de facto or otherwise are not doing so.)

I don't know whether to be relieved I'm not alone for being such an "idealistic fanatic" (as my unfavorite uncle says) or to be saddened by the division Bushco has caused. It makes me hate W and company even more, though. I guess I'm both. Probably sounds stupid, but it's been almost as hard as losing my religion, literally.

Thanks DUers.

[Sugarbleus]

38. No friends or family lost BUT........

I am soo persona non grata around town when I do business. I just can't seem to shut up. lol If I perceive a slight or a lie due to conservative ideals, whether it be in the body shop, the grocery, the hair salon, the court, the doctor's office...wherever, I GIVE 'EM BOTH BARRLES.

After all the time I've spent online researching AND the time I've spent in DU reading and LEARNING, I'm loaded for bear. Got my facts, got my rap down, got my righteous indignation, and I know the truth. Whenever possible: I speak truth to power. Most often, I get the results I desire and the other guy gets an earful. ;)

It's amazing how uncomfortable and angry people in "authority" get when you pin them on the facts and/or shame them for their stance on things political and social.

I'm aging but, these are my BEST days! Maybe I was born for just this time.

TAKE AMERICA BACK!

[PurityOfEssence]

40. Not "lost", I jettisoned them

I still have many many conservative friends and business associates, but the ones who were vehement and unfeeling have been sent packing. Life is too long to spend time with toxic people.

It's sad to think about some, but life means something, and that's that.

Keeping the channels of communication open are important and to a certain degree a moral duty, but I'm pissed, and those who don't take responsibility for the wickedness the right has wrought and is wreaking are sick, and they can go their merry way. It's a mean world, and it's just getting meaner; I won't be a part of that. Time is best spent with nice people.

[MrSlayer]

41. I haven't,my family is more important to me than some idiots in Washington

My father and I had some serious screaming matches over the summer and leading up to the election but we never let it come between us. My brother and I debate in a civil manner.

[fob]

42. Yep. just heaved to 20 plus year friendships over the railing for good

a few weeks ago. I've gotten "Hey no reason to do THAT" responses back but I gave them every opportunity to realize I was serious, they chose to gloat and mock anyway. So if they gotta have there bush*, they can have him without me(that sounds a little more odd than it should!).

Maybe one day they will realize I didn't throw away their friendship as much as they threw mine.

[EFerrari]

43. Nope. Other way around. After listening, they took another look. nt