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Weren't the Republicans howling for an "exist strategy" in Bosnia and

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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:34 PM
Original message
Weren't the Republicans howling for an "exist strategy" in Bosnia and
Kososvo, and we didn't have anywhere near the casualties of Iraq? the Republicans were all over Clinton for "nation-building" and lack of exit strategies. How short are our memories?
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LondonReign2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. The GOP's memories aren't short..
..only their ethics and morals.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. How about Somalia
Edited on Mon Jan-31-05 04:39 PM by RobertSeattle
Something like 19 dead in "Blackhawk Down" incident: They howled for years. (And the Secy of Defense resigned as a result)

Someting like 1400 dead in Iraq: Chirp Chirp. (Secy of Defense keeps his job)

On Edit:
I did a quick GOogle on "Exit Strategy" Kosovo Republican check out Was Phyllis Shafley said then:

http://www.eagleforum.org/column/1999/feb99/99-02-10.html

The Washington Post reported on January 30 that "senior Pentagon officials for the first time said they would be willing to place U.S. troops under foreign command" in Kosovo. We are eagerly awaiting any expression of outrage from Republican leaders for this latest Clintonian "wag the dog" ploy, but the silence is deafening.

Bob Dole and the usual list of globalists have signed a newspaper ad supporting Bill Clinton's expedition into Kosovo. No surprise here; Dole gave Clinton "cover" for his lies about an exit from Bosnia, his other phony "peacekeeping" forays, the Mexican bailout, and repeated handouts of U.S. taxpayers' money to corrupt foreigners.

We certainly can't depend on a Dole or a Bush to articulate a Republican foreign policy. They are of one mind with Clinton in his desire to be a player on the world stage by a succession of expensive interventionist escapades.

:LOL:
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Looking forward to the sequel "War Hawks Down"
Hopefully it's release will be before the 2008 election.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It should be called "Mission Creep"
as defined by Kay Bailey H. at http://hutchison.senate.gov/ccbosn2.htm and credited to her in big letters in the credits. Just to ram it down her throat.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Interesting. She was only wrong on 100% of her predictions
But I am surprised she didn't blame it all on baby killers and gays.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not short at all. They just cheer whatever the rightwing elites do.
They don't see it as inconsistent, because the only principle of republicans left is When We Do It, It Is Good. True for torture, true for nation building, true for invasions, true for the UN, true for everything.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. You mean like this one from Kay Bailey Hutchison?
Exit strategy or Mission Creep. I wish someone would remind her of these words:

http://hutchison.senate.gov/ccbosn2.htm

HONORABLE BOSNIA WITHDRAWAL
On May 6, one day after returning from my seventh trip to visit U.S. troops in the Balkans, I introduced legislation to curtail the continuing and open-ended commitment of U.S. ground forces there.

What I saw in the Balkans was a well-trained, professional force capable of performing any mission assigned -- as long as they are given the support they need.

But I also saw a force on a mission with no clear direction and no defined exit strategy.

Bosnia, as originally described to Congress, was to be a temporary mission -- not a permanent assignment. When Congress narrowly voted to support this mission in 1995, I voted against it because I was afraid that would happen. My reservations turned out to be fully justified.

This was sold to Congress as a one-year commitment. That deadline was missed and the next deadline was missed as well. It is now clear we are involved in an ongoing mission with no end in sight.


I am more convinced than ever that it is time to set a schedule and begin an orderly, honorable withdrawal of U.S. ground forces from the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. As time has passed, it has become even more important that the United States have an exit strategy that our troops, our allies and the people of the Balkans know and understand.

Our former Secretary of Defense and the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff both told Congress prior to the original deployment that an exit strategy and an exit date is most important if we are going to avoid what is called "mission creep," the gradual expansion of a mission beyond its original parameters.

Mission creep means that our forces are asked to undertake inappropriate tasks. And it also can mean they are exposed to greater uncertainty and risk.

More at link.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Check out what Bush said in 2000
Edited on Mon Jan-31-05 04:45 PM by RobertSeattle
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/candidates032799.htm

A spokeswoman for Texas Gov. George W. Bush, the GOP favorite in early polls, said he believes "that if we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. LOL, here's another from the Heritage Foundation
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/EM437.cfm

For the most part just replace "Clinton" with "Bush" and "Bosnia" with "Iraq" and there you go!

Clinton Fails to Make the Case For American Troops in Bosnia
by John Hillen
Executive Memorandum #437 (from their Research: Europe category)

October 23, 1995 | |

The Clinton Administration's plan to use 25,000 American troops to implement a Bosnian peace accord is being exposed as a haphazard and risky enterprise. In hearings on Capitol Hill last week, members of the Senate and House questioned the political and military rationale behind the Bosnia peace plan deployment. These questions focused on the mission's political goals, its military objectives, the probability of success, the risks entailed, and the support of the American people. Robert McNamara recently noted in his memoirs that the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations failed to address these fundamental issues in the early debates over Vietnam. It appears that the Clinton Administration is ready to fall into the same trap.

The Clinton plan puts the cart before the horse. Instead of making a troop commitment that is tailored to support a specific and workable peace accord, President Clinton made a commitment for 25,000 U.S. ground troops before he knew what the peace accord would entail -- an arbitrary pledge over two years ago. This backwards strategy forces a political plan onto an abstract military force requirement. Members of Congress were correct to question why the Administration is attempting to force 25,000 U.S. ground troops onto a plan that does not yet exist. In addition, the congressional hearings last week made it clear that the Clinton troop request is a mission looking for a purpose. These hearings raised many prescient questions and issues that remain neither answered nor resolved:

1) What are the objectives, and how does America know when they have been achieved
The American "Implementation Force" has no clearly defined and attainable military goals and no specific criteria by which the U.S. commanders can measure their success. The Clinton plan fails to address military objectives and commits American forces to static picket duty in an interpositional buffer zone. The American forces are supposed to sit there and "monitor" infractions of the peace accord. General Lewis MacKenzie, a Canadian who commanded the first United Nations troops in Sarajevo, told Members of Congress last week that, of all the various national contingents, U.S. troops would be the primary targets for disgruntled belligerents. He also told the House National Security Committee that while the Administration may try to portray the Implementation Force as a neutral "peacekeeping" presence, the United States will be perceived as the enemy by one side in the conflict. He re-emphasized the danger to U.S. forces by adding that if he were an American military officer, he "wouldn't touch this mission with a ten-foot pole."

2) There is no exit strategy
Precisely because American forces do not have well-defined and achievable military goals, "mission creep" is inherent in the Clinton peace plan. With the Administration under enormous pressure to succeed after deploying 25,000 troops, President Clinton will be sorely tempted to escalate American military efforts when faced with the inevitable resistance of the warring factions. To forestall this, the Administration plan calls for a time-driven scenario in which the American forces will be pulled out in twelve months. Almost all the Members of Congress recognized that this is a purely political decision and were extremely skeptical when General John Shalikashvili defended this timetable for unexplained "operational reasons." This is shameless political grandstanding on the part of President Clinton, and Congress rightly called his bluff. As former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle testified, "An exit date is not an exit strategy."

3) The Clinton team has anticipated and planned for a best-case scenario
Military planning, down to the lowest levels, always takes into account worst-case scenarios. Military leaders must plan for what to do when anything and everything goes wrong. Because this plan represents an ill-defined mission taking place in the volatile Balkans, there is every reason to believe that unexpected events will be a fixture. Senators were rightly astounded when Secretary of Defense William Perry stated that he "could not conceive of circumstances where troops would stay longer" than the one-year target date. This comment exposed the political and military naiveté that permeates the Clinton Administration. There are no contingency plans to address a scenario other than the fanciful best-case scenario anticipated by the Administration. Should there be anything less than cooperation by the Bosnian parties, America would be forced either to cut and run or to reinforce troops in Bosnia and escalate military efforts to make the peace plan succeed. The testimony of General MacKenzie made it clear that, despite Secretary Perry's optimism, American troops will have a rough time of it in Bosnia.

The Administration plan to deploy American ground forces has much to answer for, especially in regard to the fundamental questions that policymakers must address when contemplating the deployment of American combat troops into dangerous environments. The Clinton team did not provide satisfactory answers to Congress, either on these fundamental issues or on a host of other questions about the mission. The Administration has not clearly articulated its political and military goals in Bosnia. As Secretary of State Warren Christopher himself admitted after the hearings, "No, we haven't yet made the case." Most important, the Administration has not explained why the U.S. needs to send 25,000 ground troops to Bosnia and how a 12-month deployment can make a decisive contribution to a lasting peace in Bosnia.
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phish420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. yeah, true, but....
that was back in the day when it was OK to criticize the president for his war policy...now-a-days you are a traitor if you do such things...

...how times change.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yep, remember "wag the dog?"
That's what they accused him of, and attacked him night and day while the country was, *gasp*, at war!

No US caualties.

NATO Allies all on board, this was a NATO action.

Serbs handed over Milosivec, who is now in custody in the Haige.

Millions of Kosovo muslims returned to their homes.


But, Iraq is a stunning sucess! Freedom is on the march! God Bless America!




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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. There's no OIL in Kosovo, silly ! n/t
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? n/t
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