We Clark supporters owe Dean supporters a debt of gratitude

[RandomUser]

I know that our two camps don't always get along. And I know you guys in the Dean camp are going through a rough patch right now. I don't count Dean out, he's still got some fight left in him. I just read Michael Moore's letter to the Dean supporters (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=152874&mesg_id=152874) and I want to say I agree in some ways.

Obviously, we would love it if you joined us. But even if you don't, I want to wish you the best of luck and to acknowledge a debt. We owe you. Yes, I know some may say that all the campaigns owe Dean for energizing the base. But it's more than that. We, Clark supporters in particular, owe you guys more. Why? Because you showed us that the internet can make a difference.

It was through the internet that we managed to Draft the General. And it was through the path that Dean supporters paved that we traveled and built our blog, webcasts, online movie, CCN, grassroots houseparties, second largest Meetup group, major online fundraising, etc.

And we do owe you. In many ways, we consider ourselves your kindred spirits in the online grassroots movement, possibly successor. Without the internet and online grassroots activism, we would not have succeeded in Drafting our General.

Now, the more cynical would say that this is a play for Dean defectors. But what I want to say is that regardless of whether you switch to Clark or another candidate or just stay with Dean -- we Clark supporters owe you. Although no two campaigns are identical, some of us consider these two camps kindred spirits with similar online grassroots.

Whatever happens with the rest of primary season, you showed us it was possible for an online grassroots to make a difference -- to draft a General. And for that, we thank you.

[Bread and Circus]

1. I agree. So does Kerry. And we do owe Gore...

because he did help get the internet started, believe it or not.

And, believe or not, the US Army, invented the internet.

See, good things do come out of defense research.

[Guaranteed]

2. The whole country owes Dean.

He's led us all, made it okay for all of us to speak out.

It's tragic that he's getting abused in the way that he is.

[BearFlagDemocrat]

7. I totally agree

And it's unconscionable that the other Democratic candidates are allowing the RNC to smear Dean as "Hitler". How many times in the last couple of days did RNC shills on radio and cable TV (CNN *cough*) make Dean-Hitler comparisons?

Two entries in the Moveon.org contest were enough to make headline news when they compared Bush to Hitler. But the VRWC compares Dean to Hitler, and all we hear are crickets. I lost so much respect for ALL of Dean's primary opponents when they let that slide. Why get excited about candidates who sit by and let the right wing attack dogs eat one of their own?

[BeyondGeography]

3. Dean to Dems: Wake the fuck up!

For that, he'll always have a place in my heart.

[ewagner]

4. Well said and I might add

The Clark supporters also Dean for antoher lesson:

The lesson that the media loves the game of building up a candidate and then tearing him down with relentless attacks and innuendo.

Clark people beware.

The media treatment of Dean can and will happen to anyone they perceive to be the front runner.

Clark supporters be prepared.
Kerry supporters be prepared.
Edwards supporters be prepared.

Thank you to the Dean campaign for energizing the party.
Thank you for the lessons on grass roots support.

Good luck to all camps!

[Cuban_Liberal]

5. Everybody owes Dr. Dean

Dr. Dean did the heavy lifting for all of us for almost a year and is probably one of the main reasons we are evean able to realistically contemplate defeating Bush in November. I will not bash the good doctor, and I will defend him against those who do. Dammit, for all of his faults, I LIKE Howard Dean!

:)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

6. Look, I'm an Ardent Clark Supporter

But don't you think all of these "join us, Dean supporters" threads are a little bit much? Their guy is still very much in the hunt, and there has always been a lot of acrimony here between the camps, on both sides.

These types of threads just kind of make me cringe, for that reason. Generally speaking, these types of posts often seem rather presumptuous, opportunistic and insincere (no smart comments, please) to me. Although I am absolutely certain that you are being completely cool and open and honest about it, and I applaud you for trying to re-establish a more civil tone and relationship, and no offense is intended whatsoever.

I guess as much as I dislike Dean, I respect his supporters enough -- I respect their intelligence and loyalty enough -- to continue to let things go the way they are here until such time that many of them decide they want to start looking elsewhere, if ever. And while a very few have indicated that they are indeed looking elsewhere, I think most Dean supporters are still firmly behind their guy, and I respect them for that, just like I respect the Dean supporters who've changed their minds.

DTH

[RandomUser]

8. Dean will definitely be in it for the long haul

Both Dean and Clark will be in it for the long haul, considering they have the two largest grassroots and most money. I'm just hoping to create a more civil tone here. Remember, Clark initially rose partly because of the scorched earth tactics between the Dean and Kerry camps, when they were going after and savaging each other.

It's not in either campaign's interest to engage in cannabalism.

And let's face it -- We do kind of owe them our General.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. I Agree With You

I just generally hate these types of posts, at least here on DU. :-)

DTH

[Cuban_Liberal]

10. Anyone who thinks Dean is dropping out soon is dreaming.

Dean is in this thing until the convention, unless someone actually locks up enough delegates to secure the nomination before then.

[RandomUser]

11. Agreed

There's still a lot of road from here to the nomination and lots of turns.

[BeyondGeography]

13. I know what you're saying, DTH

But threads like this also give us a chance to show some love to the Dr. That's not all bad.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. Yes, But Given the Past Acrimony

The "love" often appears insincere, IMO.

I'm not at all saying that that's what people are intending when they praise Dean in threads like these; I absolutely believe RandomUser is sincere, and so are many others who have done this.

I'm just saying that's how it will often appear, especially if the person offering praise has ever been harsh toward Dean in the past.

DTH

[BeyondGeography]

19. There's been harshness all over

And this week, Dean's down, Clark's down, Kerry's up and Edwards is up. A week from now, things will probably be completely different, and we might be at each other's throats again.

So let's enjoy this moment of harmony, however insincere and temporary. It will make us stronger in the end when we all have to pull together.

[cprise]

12. Bush had control of our agenda until Dean came into it

Dean proved that anti-war and pro-regulation stances were not unspeakable or fringe, and that you can still at least goad the media into dealing with them on some level.

That was after proving as Governor of Vermont that you can balance the budget and still give universal healthcare a large foothold (and hopes for expansion).

I cringe at the thought of what the Democratic debate would be like right now without him, because Kucinich has near zero traction with the press.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[DoveTurnedHawk]

16. DU Is Not the Real World

In the real world, most Dean and Clark supporters get along fine, and many Dean supporters like Clark as well.

DTH

[RandomUser]

18. There was a breakdown of the NH favorability numbers

Some weeks ago, I remember a breakdown of the numbers in NH that showed the Kerry supporters and Lieberman supporters had high unfavorability ratings for Dean. The Clark supporters on the other hand, were split. It was a mix of people who had high favorability and low favorability ratings for Dean.

That means that there's an overlap between the Kerry/Clark/Lieberman base and an overlap between the Clark/Dean base, but little overlap between the Kerry/Dean base with regard to how the groups view Dean.

Kerry, Lieberman, and Clark were fighting for the anti-dean crowd. But Clark and Dean were also fighting for the pro-dean crowd. It shows a good broad base that Clark is able to unite the people who like Dean and the ones who don't, whereas the Kerry and Dean camps had exactly opposite opinions of Dean.

I don't remember what the Edwards and Kucinich numbers were. Maybe someone has a link.

[RandomUser]

17. That's fine

Like I said, good luck with whatever happens, whether you stay with Dean or go ABC with someone else. We do owe you our General, and I wanted to acknowledge that before we part ways.